Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Beauty Pageants

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WikiProject Beauty Pageants (Rated NA-class)
WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of WikiProject Beauty Pageants, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of beauty pageants, their contestants and winners on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Angelopedia?[edit]

Hi all, I noticed this editor change a news reference to a site called angelopedia.com. As I poked through their history, their edits are indistinguishable from widespread spam. However in the interest of fairness, I thought I'd ask if any of you have any thoughts about the use of this site as a reference. It has hundreds of links across many Wikipedia languages. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:07, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Not reliable, user generated, should be blacklisted. Legacypac (talk) 15:17, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

  • I see no evidence that the user-generated material at the site extends to anything other than the Comments sections and those silly "Predict the Winner" polls. The News content looks to be re-published press releases and, as such, should be treated the same way we treat things like non-bylined biographies on AllMusic -- they can't be used to establish notability but can be used to source non-controversial facts. The same can be said of the contestant interviews hosted by the site. In all, it's a useful resource for non-controversial information, especially for contestants from nations where most of the other sourcing is likely to be written in non-Roman alphabets. NewYorkActuary (talk) 20:34, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
  • I'd say it's about as reliable/useful as my own fan site - it's not. --- PageantUpdater (talk) 21:11, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
That depends. Does your fan site do a lot of interviews with contestants? And speaking of reliability, can you point to any factual errors in Angelopedia's news reports? NewYorkActuary (talk) 21:54, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
No to the first question - as to the second I'm not sure you'd be able to point to many if any errors in my site ([1]) either and my site could also be considered a source for titleholder listings/results etc but I still don't think it would be appropriate to link it on here. I'm not really basing that on reading any guidelines or policies though I will admit, just doesn't feel right. --- PageantUpdater (talk) 23:57, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Citations[edit]

In reviewing the information on a Miss USA pageant my mother was in, I noted there are 0 citations for any of the information on that page, and it appears this is normal for pageants from about 30+ years ago. Is that acceptable?

In particular, my mother remembers some of the information on the page referencing her year differently. Some of the information she spoke about would seem to be noteworthy, but without citation, I'm reluctant to change that page at all. I'd feel more confortable also if citation standards were higher on these pageants as I feel a little digging at newspaper archives would yield much more accurate and complete information. - jeffwinchell

Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject[edit]

Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_Beauty_Pageants

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— Rod talk 13:46, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Pageant contestants[edit]

Not sure of the minimum requirements for contestants, so would Paweensuda_Drouin pass WP:N. Thanks in advance...Atsme📞📧 00:10, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Confusing Miss Teen USA afd discussions[edit]

Just thougth I'd put a note here, recently three Miss Teen USA winners have gone to AFD. we now have a very confusing situation & I have sought comment from the closers as I'm not really sure where this leaves things going forward (if Legacypac or another editor were to try and afd any of the other pages)

As the three are notable for exact same thing & the coverage levels were similar this has left things in a bit of a mess. --- PageantUpdater (talk) 23:18, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

It might be helpful to have a Request for Comments on the question of whether winning the pageant constitutes a "well-known and significant award or honor" as specified in WP:ANYBIO. Undoubtedly, the burn-the-witches crowd will argue that it doesn't. But if you feel that you can assemble good arguments in support of the proposition, then an RfC might be the perfect way to assure consistent results. NewYorkActuary (talk) 23:46, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
FYI Following the change from No Consensus to Keep for Janel Bishop I have initiated a deletion review for Cherise Haugen --- PageantUpdater (talk) 02:21, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Use of "death daggers"[edit]

Hello, folks. For a little while now, I've been seeing editors adding those "death daggers" (the ones that look like crosses) to contestant lists in a large number of articles. For those who are not familiar with the "death daggers", they are intended to indicate that the person is no longer alive. I think this is a bad idea and would like to delete them, but would prefer to get some consensus here first.

As things stand right now, I could delete them as being unsourced, because the editors never bother to add references supporting the daggers. But conceivably, the editors could come back with sources. That wouldn't change my thinking that they're a bad idea, for the following two reasons.

  1. The lists are not intended to provide information on who is or who isn't still alive. This is true of virtually every other list that I've checked in other fields of competition. As just two examples, 1961 New York Yankees season doesn't bother telling the reader which team members have died; neither does Australia at the 1960 Summer Olympics. And I don't see any reason why the pageantry articles should be any different.
  2. This second reason is more subtle but, to my thinking, just as important. When a reader sees a few names on a list identified with the "death dagger", there is an unstated implication that any person whose name does not have that dagger is still alive. And yet, I have no confidence that anyone is monitoring these lists to verify that all of the deceased persons have been correctly identified. It is this potential for misleading the reader that causes me the greater concern.

Your thoughts and comments will be greatly appreciated. NewYorkActuary (talk) 17:32, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Agree, all points. --GRuban (talk) 21:08, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Delete all; unnecessary and pointless. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:18, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, we are not using those in any other context for biography subjects. The only use I recall of them on WP is for indicating extinct taxa in lists of the subtaxa of a particular taxon, and usually only in the infobox (see, e.g., the one at Felis). More often, we just use separate sections for extinct and surviving groups of organisms (e.g., at Felidae).  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  04:58, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

"Born in" in notes column?[edit]

I just removed a whole lot of unnecessary bullet pointing (that was throwing out the formatting) at Miss USA 2018. I also think the "born in" etc is trivial & should be removed, does anyone have any thoughts on this? It's something that has crept into similar articles recently but I think it's excessive. Thoughts? --- PageantUpdater (talk) 02:59, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

This project would do itself a world of good if it started to develop a Manual of Style for its articles. And matters such as these could be addressed in that Manual. But as to your particular questions, I agree that "born in ..." doesn't belong in the article for the event. And I agree that "without bullet points" looks better. NewYorkActuary (talk) 15:25, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
P.S. Any thoughts on the thread I opened immediately above? NewYorkActuary (talk) 15:25, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
Disagree. I think it's an important and interesting point that a non-negligible fraction of contestants for a title called "Miss USA" are actually immigrants. This would not be true for most countries in the world, and points out a lot about this country. --GRuban (talk) 21:12, 20 March 2018 (UTC)