Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography

"WT:WPBIO" redirects here. For WikiProject Biology, see WT:BIOLOGY.

"WT:BIOGRAPHY" redirects here. For discussion for WP:Notability (biography), see WT:BIO.

Requested moves

• 26 Jun 2017 – William H. Gray (Pennsylvania politician) (talk · edit · hist) is requested to be moved by Arbor to SJ (t · c); see discussion
• 25 Jun 2017 – Elizabeth Grant (talk · edit · hist) is requested to be moved by Feminist (t · c); see discussion
• 25 Jun 2017 – Elizabeth Chuah Lamb (talk · edit · hist) is requested to be moved by DerbyCountyinNZ (t · c); see discussion
• 23 Jun 2017 – Bob Sweeney (actor and director) (talk · edit · hist) is requested to be moved by IJBall (t · c); see discussion
• 23 Jun 2017 – Renee MacRae (talk · edit · hist) is requested to be moved by Roman Spinner (t · c); see discussion
• 23 Jun 2017 – Carlos Alberto Peña (talk · edit · hist) is requested to be moved by Johnelwaq (t · c); see discussion
• 23 Jun 2017 – Ben J. Wattenberg (talk · edit · hist) is requested to be moved by Arbor to SJ (t · c); see discussion
• 23 Jun 2017 – Natalia Keery-Fisher (talk · edit · hist) is requested to be moved by Guanaco (t · c); see discussion
• 21 Jun 2017 – Brian Joseph Dunn (talk · edit · hist) is requested to be moved by TonyBallioni (t · c); see discussion
• 21 Jun 2017 – James Martin Hayes (talk · edit · hist) is requested to be moved by Anthony Appleyard (t · c); see discussion

(27 more...)

Joseph Bradish

I'm a descendant of the Bradish family and have researched Bradish in the UK archives. He did not sail with Kidd, except when he was a prisoner on the same ship enroute from Boston to London. The timing of Kidd and Bradish is very close and each sailed on different ships named Adventure, hence much confusion. Eventually I hope to write this all out, if I can read my notes.

Rick Clarke — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.21.241.139 (talk) 15:26, 5 April 2016

Help with article Stewart W. Bainum Jr.

Hi there, I'm here to see if there are any editors from this WikiProject who would be able to review a draft to update the article for Stewart W. Bainum Jr. Mr. Bainum is a former Maryland state lawmaker and current chairman of Choice Hotels. His current article is quite short possibly due to the fact that a lot of the more in-depth sources about him are older and in newspaper archives. Based on news clippings provided by Mr. Bainum and from research on Lexis Nexis and HighBeam, I've been able to find a lot of older sources that provide information about his political career and his development of the company that became Choice Hotels. If this piques your interest, I have posted an edit request on the article's Talk page with more details. The new draft is saved in my user space here: User:16912_Rhiannon/Stewart_W._Bainum_Jr

Let me know if you have any feedback or questions about the new draft. Thanks in advance, 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 20:52, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

 Done This request has been reviewed. Thanks! 16912 Rhiannon (Talk · COI) 21:35, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Abu Eesa Niamatullah

Hello! I am notifying interested projects and editors that I've listed Abu Eesa Niamatullah for discussion at AfD.

I invite you all to contribute to the discussion. Mujaddouda (talk) 21:35, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Atmosphere of editing biographical articles

Is editing or discussing biographical articles increasingly tense and heated lately? Individual infobox discussions don't generally get heated, e.g. Talk:2017 Berkeley protests. However, debates about biographical infoboxes do get heated, like Talk:Stanley Kubrick and Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Infoboxes. I also realize the heat is no longer limited to infoboxes.

The filmography of Erin Moran was removed but then reverted. Then the discussion about the filmography got heated at Talk:Erin Moran, though the issue has been resolved.

Also, some non-free images of deceased persons get removed (or deleted), like an image of Robert Miles (FFD), while some other non-free images remain (especially after failed attempts to remove or delete them), like those of Reg Grundy (FFD) and Tony Scott. The votes at FFD were split, but the individual results may vary.

Also, the guideline WP:NSPORTS is challenged and debated at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). The discussion is still pending a closure.

Again, are discussions about biographical articles and individuals increasingly heated? If so, why? If not, how else can the phenomena exemplified by the above be explained? --George Ho (talk) 23:46, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Each topic has its drama magnets. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:43, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

And we have another biography-trend drama addressed at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard, though it's mostly about one editor's conduct. Still, I began to realize how drama-tic editing biographies are. --George Ho (talk) 07:48, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

It seems so to me too, but I assumed it was just the articles I've been involved with lately. If it's a general trend it would be interesting to know why. Kendall-K1 (talk) 01:37, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Hmm... what articles were you working on? By the way, the "Mary Tyler Moore filmography and awards" was split off from "Mary Tyler Moore" when the subject herself died. George Ho (talk) 02:30, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Chloe Khan until it got deleted. I will admit that I'm attracted to unpopular people's articles. I believe that Wikipedia articles shouldn't suffer just because the subject was a mass murderer, or started WWI, or scammed millions of elderly people out of billions of dollars. Roosh V is one of my favorites. Everybody hates him, and although I don't like the guy, I enjoy defending his article. But even considering my choice of subjects, I would agree that things are more heated now than say five years ago. BTW thanks for the NSPORTS pointer, but that discussion seems quite rational and tame compared to some I've seen recently. Kendall-K1 (talk) 02:51, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I figure that the heat is no longer limited to just BLPs. Well, I'm not sure how much it extended to biographies of deceased persons. I was thinking just infoboxes and images. The prose content has been easier to resolve. For example, I was working on "Tommy Page" and "Stuart Timmons" because their sexualities were disputed until then verified. Hmm... maybe it's not just existing biographies. I was working on draft biographies, and the rate of shifting a draft to mainspace has been in 50/50, but there were just the drafts that I contributed to. Maybe the standards of notabilities have increased over the years? Wikipedia talk:Notability (people) may have a lot of discussions about people involved in porn industry, but it also has discussions about other people. Then again, as you said, the discussion about NSPORTS is rational and tame. Probably I just got frustrated when some of the drafts don't pass and when some non-free images get deleted. --George Ho (talk) 04:33, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lists of people by occupation

Lists of people by occupation is being discussed for deletion. Softlavender (talk) 09:03, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

How do I "officially" join this project?

I am rather new to wiki-ing. I completed my first big article and it is a biography of a woman (I think that fits two or three needed/sought/desirable categories).

So! How do I join this project and the subprojects.

I have noodled around on the pages with no success..... QvixenSSF (talk) 02:12, 6 June 2017 (UTC)QvixenSSF / SuzQ! (new handle -coming soon).

You don't have to do anything, really. But if you want to make it all official and everything, you could add your name to this list. I think some of the subprojects also have their own membership lists. You'd have to check their pages. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:23, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

WP:Citation overkill RfC

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Wikipedia talk:Citation overkill#Should this essay be changed to encourage more citations?. A WP:Permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:18, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Military biography articles: FA/GA discussion

MilHist project is hosting a discussion on GA / FA articles that have been tagged as possibly having unreliable sources. The discussion can be found here:

• MILHIST: GA / FA articles.

Interested editors are invited to participate. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:01, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Two images re-nominated for deletion at WP:FFD

The following two images are nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2017 June 8: File:Alan kurdi smiling playground.jpg and File:Reg Grundy 20 September 2010.jpg. I invite you to discuss those separate nominations. --George Ho (talk) 05:03, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Stephen Allott

I have concerns about the notability of this person. Article seems to be a puff piece by a paid editor. Any advice would be appreciated. Bosley John Bosley (talk) 16:43, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stephen Allott Bosley John Bosley (talk) 17:14, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Melvyn Morrow -- trimming needed?

Can anyone from this project please take a look at this playwright's biography? It contains an awful lot of uncited and rambling material, it seems to me, and discusses various amateur productions. All the best! -- 65.78.11.228 (talk) 17:12, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

FLRC

I have nominated List of regicides of Charles I for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. - SchroCat (talk) 08:20, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Help needed: Adding image to infobox

Resolved

Greetings, WikiProject Biography members. Recently, my AfC submission for James F. Allen (businessman) was accepted, but I'm now looking for someone to add an image of Mr. Allen to the article's infobox. I prefer not to edit the article myself because of my disclosed conflict of interest, so I submitted an edit request on the article's talk page. Is someone here willing to add the image to the inbox on my behalf? Thanks in advance. Inkian Jason (talk) 20:10, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Inkian Jason, referring this back to article talk page to respond (as edit window page notice seems to imply...) thanks! Fylbecatulous talk 17:49, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

One editor is concerned about adding the image to the infobox because of the pending OTRS template, but I don't think this should be a problem. Is another editor comfortable adding a headshot image to a biography infobox? @Dank, Sandstein, and Wizardman: I see you are active members of WikiProject Biography, so I am hoping one of you might be willing to help with this simple task? I simply prefer not to edit the article directly. Inkian Jason (talk) 16:36, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

The image has been added, so I am marking this section as resolved. Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 14:42, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Redirects to Osama bin Laden at RfD

Just to notify that both redirects, Obama bin Laden and Obama Bin Laden, are discussed at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 June 4#Obama Bin Laden, where I invite you to join. --George Ho (talk) 10:07, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!

Hello, Please note that Alice Bah Kuhnke, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of Today's articles for improvement. The article was scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing! Delivered by — MusikBot talk 00:05, 19 June 2017 (UTC) on behalf of the TAFI team

Proposed deletion of Edwin Jürgensen

The article Edwin Jürgensen has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

relies on a single source and also lacks any notability, also lacks any information

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. BSOleader (talk) 14:22, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Inaccuracies on S. Robson Walton

Hello! There are inaccuracies on S. Robson Walton regarding his marital status and children. I posted an edit request to have these details corrected. Can someone from WikiProject Biography assist with this? I will not direct edit the page because I have a Wikipedia:Conflict of interest; I work with the Walton family office, as I disclosed on my user page. Let me know if you have any questions on my request. Thanks, Kt2011 (Talk · COI:Walton family) 18:14, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Ronald Francis

Was wndering if someone would mind taking a look at Ronald Francis and assessing it for notability. It appears to have been created as a WP:AUTOBIO by the subject itself, and is not supported by any citations to reliable sources. I don't think Francis is notable per WP:BIO, but I'm not sure about WP:ARTIST. Anyway, any feedback on the article's notability would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:43, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Newish user creating hundreds of DWB-sourced stubs

Editors at this project may want to review the work of Helenrp (talk · contribs), who has been creating hundreds of biographical stub articles sourced to only the Dictionary of Welsh Biography. The main problems with their work include:

1. All articles are one-source. More sources need to added. the ones which fail GNG need to be AfD'd.
2. Too specific disambiguation terms in title. Many articles need to be renamed to use proper disambiguation terms.
3. Many articles which actually meet GNG are likely to have scope for plenty of expansion.

223.227.31.61 (talk) 16:13, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

From her talk page, it looks like this is an initiative of National Library of Wales. Someone could alert the WP:GLAM people, I guess, if they're not already involved. They might be able to provide guidance. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 20:25, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

July 2017 at Women in Red

		Welcome to Women in Red's July 2017 worldwide online editathons.
		"Women in dance" "Women in music" "Women from India"

(To subscribe: Women in Red/English language list and Women in Red/international list. Unsubscribe: Women in Red/Opt-out list) --Rosiestep (talk) 02:56, 24 June 2017 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Who attended what and was seen where = notable info?

Three questions:

1. Why does it seem to be an acceptable standard, especially in biographies of royalty, to list what weddings or christenings they attended, what ceremeonies they were seen at etc etc etc?
2. Can I safely (based on any known guideline) remove such non-notable info that only takes up space, as I see it?
3. Am I asking this question in the wrong place?

--SergeWoodzing (talk) 08:39, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

You are wrong. That is notable within in the context of royalty. It does not "take up space" it is information about the official work of the royals. We do not change guidelines to serve our own purposes. Or ignore them.--BabbaQ (talk) 09:24, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

What guideline covers this? Kendall-K1 (talk) 12:21, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Very good question. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 15:10, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

A few points:

• SergeWoodzing is asking questions. It is not wrong to ask questions.
• This info does take up space. The question is whether it is undue to include it.
• We do change guidelines to suit particular circumstances. See Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines.
• We also sometimes ignore guidelines, and even policies. See WP:IAR.

Kendall-K1 (talk) 18:53, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

So we should ignore guidelines when it fits. Interesting. --BabbaQ (talk) 09:35, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

And yes, it was a question. And last time checked questions requires answers. Even if the answers does not fit in to the person askings agenda.--BabbaQ (talk) 09:35, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Since nobody up to this point has actually addressed your questions, I will try.

1. Can't really say, I don't get much involved in Royalty articles. Have a few on my watchlist but mostly for vandalism. The kind of info you see to be talking about to me does not seem to be important enough to include in an encyclopedia article about a person.
2. Yes you can. Always remember BRD. If someone reverts, discuss it, don't get into an edit war about it.
3. This is an acceptable place to ask this type of question. You can also post to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Royalty and Nobility pointing to this discussion so the members there can explain their thoughts.

~ GB fan 10:39, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, and especially for your non-aggressive, constructive tone. I will follow your advice. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 18:42, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost/The State of Task Forces in 2017

Are your project's task forces struggling to survive? Or is it just the opposite? What are strategies do your task forces use? Does your project even think task forces need to be replaced? Whatever the case The Signpost wants to know! Have one of your task forces go to User:22mikpau/Signpost/John Rocco edit-a-thon to contribute a section about their story. NOTE: This peice is an opinion peice with severel different editers contributing and the veiws of your task force or project may not be expressed in the articles entirety. Any questions can be left on the talk page. 22mikpau (talk) 13:12, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Ever discussed re: desired personal impact of WP editors on bios of the famous?

I have now contributed to Wikimedia projects for many years, and I'm ready to ask another question based on those years of experience, hoping that nobody will be too offended and also that I'm asking it in the right place.

Q: Does anyone know if it ever has been discussed on these pages or elsewhere that a few editors, who seem to want to own certain articles about royalty and other famous people, or at least want be seen as having a considerable personal impact on those life stories, often contribute to those articles more from that personal impact angle than from a strictly encyclopedic standpoint?

I am not alleging that this is a major problem, nor that many editors behave that way, but after all these years, it seems to me that a guideline might be appropriate with a wording something like this: Never let it show that you contribute to any article about a famous person because you primarily want your own personal impact on that life story to be evident.

Please feel free to comment candidly, but preferably in a constructive and non-aggressive manner. Some of you might have no idea at all what I'm talking about. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:06, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

In no particular order, my thoughts in reply to this good faith question are.... (A) it isn't clear-cut that this is a problem, for two reasons. First, there are no examples listed and second, one can be so motivated and yet still be adding decent encyclopedic content with excellent NPOV and RSs. (B) Assuming for sake of argument that this is a problem, the proposed text urges people to go ahead and engage in that problematic behavior, but just be sneaky about it. (C) The proposed solution to the alleged problem strikes me as WP:CREEP, because you've already said the targets of this proposed language are in violation of WP:OWN. Also, our rules are designed, in theory, to prevent problems. If the text of WP:NPOV, WP:BLP, etc haven't gotten through to these editors, how do you think the addition of this new text will inspire prevention? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 01:50, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Good points, thank you! You made me laugh at my own suggested wording. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 08:42, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

You're welcome, and this place needs people who can laugh at themselves. I'm happy to meet another! NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 12:11, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Category:People who turned down an award has been nominated for discussion

Category:People who turned down an award has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. 142.160.131.202 (talk) 06:08, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Objectivity check at Drashti Dhami

Hi all, I would consider it a favor if at least one other editor could please add Drashti Dhami to their watchlist to ensure objectivity and conformity to community standards. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:19, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

I watchlisted it. Skimming through the history, puffery seems to be a problem. Have you thought about going to ANI? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 06:02, 27 June 2017 (UTC)