Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China/Archive 18

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Editing Request

I need to request that someone with more editing experience than myself (that is, almost anyone) edit the examples given on the Wikipedia:WikiProject China/Assessment page, in order to verify whether these examples currently reflect the definitions of their respective classes. The example given for "stub"-class articles, the Wu Hu Uprising, does not currently seem to meet the definition given for "stub". Also, the example given for "start"-class articles, Luo Guanzhong, does a better job referencing sources than the example for "C"-class articles, Gan Ning, so I am unsure if either of these articles are currently appropriate examples of their respective classes.

I am hoping to review some articles currently classified as "stubs" which are obviously not stubs, but I am not completely sure which categories they should fit in. I would appreciate the assistance of anyone more senior than myself in reviewing the given examples. Thanks.Ferox Seneca (talk) 10:56, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Regional differences in the Chinese language

Regional differences in the Chinese language has been nominated for deletion. (talk) 06:34, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Standard Chinese

Standard Chinese is being moved back and forth, while under an active move discussion... (talk) 13:23, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Simplifications to written Chinese in Hong Kong

Simplifications to written Chinese in Hong Kong has been nominated for deletion. (talk) 06:24, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Opposition to the Guangzhou-Hong Kong Express Rail Link

Opposition to the Guangzhou-Hong Kong Express Rail Link has been nominated for deletion. (talk) 03:56, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Re-assessment Request

Hi, I'm requesting a re-assessment and importance rating for the article Ejin Horo Banner. I have significantly expanded it, added references, images, etc. I didn't see anyplace else to list this type of request. Thanks! Boneyard90 (talk) 17:27, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

After giving it some thought, I assessed it as C class. It is right on the cusp between C and Start, though, in my opinion. It still needs more comprehensiveness and balance in terms of content, and more sources.--Danaman5 (talk) 12:54, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Copyright concerns related to your project

This notice is to advise interested editors that a Contributor copyright investigation has been opened which may impact this project. Such investigations are launched when contributors have been found to have placed non-free copyrighted content on Wikipedia on multiple occasions. It may result in the deletion of images or text and possibly articles in accordance with Wikipedia:Copyright violations. The specific investigation which may impact this project is located at Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/Arilang1234.

All contributors with no history of copyright problems are welcome to contribute to CCI clean up. There are instructions for participating on that page. Additional information may be requested from the user who placed this notice, at the process board talkpage, or from an active CCI clerk. Thank you. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 17:44, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

New articles

Hey, would someone take a look at Cheng Jianping, see if I missed any cultural/geographical details, slap a China project tag on it, and give it a rating? Thanks! Ocaasi (talk) 09:53, 22 January 2011 (UTC) I've written some others. Here's the list:

Thanks. Ocaasi (talk) 21:18, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Chinese Language

Old Chinese and Middle Chinese has a problem. The dates don't close to overlap. Old Chinese claims to end at 9 AD, However Middle Chinese starts 6th century AD... So you have a few hundred years to account for. Please repair this.-- (talk) 04:52, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Confirmation of Chinese name in Chinese characters

I just need to confirm that the Chinese name taken by Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), Lu Tian Na, is indeed 陸天娜. The source for Lu Tian Na is here, but the article makes no mention of the name's equivalent in Mandarin characters (okay, there's a picture of a kid with a sign, but I can't read those characters...). If somebody could help out, that would be great! Thanks. upstateNYer 01:50, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Mandarin characters? what's that?
And of course most articles in English will not give quoted mention of non-Latin script.
As far as I can see, what you gave is exactly (yes) what the sign reads. To confirm the pinyin romanisation, copy the characters into a site dedicated to Mandarin such as this one, or even Google Translate. To use Google Translate, select either Chinese-Traditional or Chinese-Simplified as the second language, and then click "show romanisation". --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 01:56, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Looking at the Chinese versions of the article, [1] and [2] , 陸天娜 is in traditional characters and 陆天娜 simplified. There's also a reference which gives the characters if you're looking for one.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 02:37, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
陸天娜 (陆天娜) and Lu Tian Na (Lu Tian-na/Lu Tian-Na) should redirect to her article. (talk) 05:59, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Redirects created for Chinese character names. Do we really need the redirects for the other pinyin variants? Note that Lu Tianna already exists as a redirect to her article, and that is how Chinese names are typically rendered.--Danaman5 (talk) 22:20, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
The photo clearly shows Lu Tian Na, and considering she stayed in Taiwan for some of her time, the format used there is different. (talk) 04:41, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
OK, created.--Danaman5 (talk) 01:33, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Special state-to-state relations

Ambox warning yellow.svg

The article Special state-to-state relations has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Article does not establish the significance, and has remained essentially one sentence for six years.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. —Felix the Cassowary 13:46, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Hsiao-Lan Wang

An article on Tiwanese composer Hsiao-Lan Wang has been proposed for deletion, for anyone who would like to join the discussion. Pkeets (talk) 22:25, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Schools of Chinese Tea Ceremony

icetea8 (talk) 11:55, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Regional differences in the Chinese language

FYI, note the move request listed here. --rgpk (comment) 22:02, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

March Assessment Drive

We are down to only 1,779 articles tagged with the WPCHINA banner that are still unassessed. What do people think of the idea of planning an assessment drive for the month of March to knock out the remainder? It's not that many articles, and with everyone pitching in, we could easily get it done in a month. If people are interested, I can create a subpage and whatnot.--Danaman5 (talk) 05:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

if there is a cat for all those articles, then I say why not. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 05:20, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Yup, they're all in Category:Unassessed China-related articles.--Danaman5 (talk) 06:10, 15 February 2011 (UTC)


Maybe enWP needs more on the Xining reform and the subsequent struggles. Zh has a series of articles dedicated to the reform alone. Even things like zh:農田水利法 got articles of their own. Kayau Voting IS evil 06:21, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Shanghai Portal

Would anyone be interested in making a Shanghai portal? zh:Portal:上海 and wuu:Portal:上海 exist WhisperToMe (talk) 12:47, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

oh. a portal, and not a WikiProject... though I have no roots in that region at all and have only visited the city once. Hopefully making the Portal does not require too much knowledge. seems I may have finally found a cure to my nomadic editing patterns...ZH-WIKI also has portals for a few of the provincial-level divisions and even a few sub-provincial cities. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 16:19, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I now live in Danyang city, i will try to take pics and update the articles of the Jiangsu/Shanghai area, holler if there is any request Megatonman (talk) 13:26, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Chinese people in Burma

Chinese people in Burma has been requested to be renamed, see talk:Chinese people in Burma. (talk) 00:44, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Spelling help

Can someone check my Pinyin at Wife selling (Chinese custom)? Thanks! Kaldari (talk) 21:42, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

what is provided now (mai xiu) sounds like a [quite incorrect] literal translation containing the character 卖/賣, which means "to sell". I checked the Chinese Wikipedia's equivalent article on Wife selling (English custom), and the translation given is 販妻. If you could help by providing characters, which unfortunately many publications in English do not furnish, that would be great --HXL's Roundtable and Record 22:09, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
The only source I've found which mentions the original Chinese is Sex, Law, and Society in Late Imperial China, pages 57–64. There is one sentence which lists it as "yi cai mai xiu" instead of just "mai xiu", but I'm not sure if that is the correct term or not. Kaldari (talk) 22:24, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm just going to remove it from the article for now. Kaldari (talk) 22:24, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
and accordingly, delete the redirect mai xiu for now? --HXL's Roundtable and Record 22:58, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Looks like it's a translation of 以财买休, which appears in Yuan dynasty law code provisions about wife selling. The literal translation of "using money to buy divorce". --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 15:54, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! I've added it to the article. What's the pinyin transliteration? Kaldari (talk) 00:45, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
yǐcáimǎixiū, assuming it's parsed as a single concept. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 18:45, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Nanyue and Nam Viet

Nanyue has been requested to be renamed again, see Talk:Nanyue. (talk) 22:35, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Chinese-ordered English

This article, Chinese-ordered English, sounds like it should be about a sort of pidgin English or phenomenon amongst Chinese learners of English, but it's actually an essay about an educaitonal technique for teacihng Chinese. The technique, according to the article, is used in one institution. Apart form that claim, the rest of the article seems to be an essay or manual. It contained just one "see also" external link to a Tianya Wenda (a question-and-answer web forum) discussion, which I have removed on the basis that web forum discussions are not reliable sources. However, could other editors take a look and take a view about whether the article satisfies notability criteria and/or can be fixed up so that it is not an original research essay? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 15:51, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I have tagged it as textbook-like. Kayau Voting IS evil 15:55, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Massively expanding lists of High Schools

I have noticed on both this EN-Wiki and the ZH-Wiki sometimes excessive lists of high schools in (mostly prefecture-level) cities and even on some provincial articles. Hope this discussion will be able to reformulate guidelines on both the cities and provinces. My first take is that the longer lists belong in the District/County articles. --HXL's Roundtable and Record 15:53, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Requested move of Ji–Lu Mandarin

please give your input at that talk page --HXL's Roundtable and Record 18:37, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

PRC maritime warcraft prodded for deletion

A bunch of PROC maritime warcraft have been prodded for deletion. See Category:Proposed deletion as of 20 March 2011 . (talk) 07:09, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chinese history/Translation of Han Dynasty titles

Please look over Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chinese history/Translation of Han Dynasty titles. Thanks. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 14:02, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Request for intervention: Chinese language

I yesterday added the General Chinese pronunciation of Chinese language, and balanced the non-neutral "language family"-claim to a neutral position. However, Nlu reverted my edits and explained it as reverting non-neutral materials in my user talk page.

Last week Nlu criticized me for my tit-for-tat attitude on repealing discussions that do not meet the Wikipedia policies and guidelined in Chinese Wikipedia, so in order not to worsen the situation, I here ask for intervention to the article Chinese language. Note that Nlu might have been angry in that he reverted balancing-claim and the General Chinese pronunciation altogether, leaving no comments.

I think one best solution concerning the article Chinese language is to use generally accepted claims: e.g. Chinese language is a written language, and a linguistic language family (or a family of spoken languages), with spoken intelligibility to varying degrees.

At least I don't think the Hindi language will not be written as “Hindi is a dialect of Hindu-Urdu”, and Min Nan Chinese will not be written as a language family consists of hundreds of languages. In rural China, spoken intelligibility may not be performed even between two villaged. ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) 09:03, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks everyone!

––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) 08:56, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

General Chinese

I suggest to add General Chinese Romanization to most China-related articles, for its neutrality among different spoken Chinese. ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) 09:00, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

You've been adding these to the lead sentence of articles,[3][4] but GC isn't widely enough used to justify that prominence. Perhaps an entry in {{Infobox Chinese}} would be more suitable. Kanguole 08:56, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Wang Chen, Hubei for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Wang Chen, Hubei is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wang Chen, Hubei until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. - Pburka (talk) 23:49, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Revival of the debate between using Sea of Japan and East Sea

See WT:Naming_conventions_(Korean)/Disputed_names#Change_to_the_naming_convention; someone has requested a new discussion on the use of East Sea versus Sea of Japan.

As the East China Sea is also referred to as the East Sea, I thought you'd like to know. (talk) 17:01, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Hong Kong English

At talk:Hong Kong English, a user is about to start pruning alot of information, due to reliability concerns. (talk) 06:39, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Currency template

I have created a template for displaying chinese currency: {{CNY|5}} gives '5 CN元' . The purpose of the temppate is to give consistency (currently articles use many different symbols and formats) and also to be easier to type than ¥ or 元.

Which is the best format and symbols to display? Should they have a space between the number and the symbol?

  1. ¥5 (conflict with Japanese yen).
  2. 5 CN¥
  3. 5元
  4. 5 CN元
  5. 5 RMB
  6. RMB 5
  7. 5 CNY
  8. CNY 5
  9. 5円
  10. 5 CN円
  11. something else

Should the template link to Chinese yuan or Renminbi ?

I chose the name {{CNY}} because that is the official ISO 4217 code. {{RMB}} might also be appropriate but it currently redirects to {{RM bottom}} - nothing is using the RMB template, so perhaps we can change RMB to redirect to CNY.

Once all this is decided, should the results of the decisions be placed on the main project page?

Some useful links to read first are:

Any thoughts?  Stepho  (talk) 02:56, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I think that {{RMB}} should be repurposed, since nothing is using it, and point to renminbi. CNY should stay pointed to Chinese yuan. We should use RMB when possible, and CNY when it's unclear which yuan, or it is a non RMB yuan. I prefer "CN¥", since I think the bare character "元" is likely to be confused with "円" for non-East-Asian audiences, and "¥" is more likely to be the Japanese Yen. (talk) 05:37, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply - I was hoping for more replies but I'm thankful for your contribution. I got a little confused when you said non RMB yuan. The ISO 4217 code 'CNY' is very specific to China and can not be used by any other country. It's even more specific, if China changes it's currency then a new code could be allocated starting with the ISO 3166 country code 'CN'. So anybody using a template called {{CNY}} is explictly wanting the PRoC currency. Likewise, 'RMB' is only used as a currency in China. I would like very much to make {{CNY}} and {{RMB}} display exactly the same thing - even to the point of making {{RMB}} a redirect to the {{CNY}} (I've tried to use the ISO codes for all of the currency templates I have created).
I created {{CNY}} to display '5 CN元'. In retrospect, this may have been wrong because many readers will not have Chinese fonts loaded. In my own travels through China, I have seen 5¥, 5元, 5円 and RMB 5 in common use. To make it suitable for international readers and to avoid ambiguity with other Asian currencies, perhaps 'RMB 5' would be the best with a link to Renminbi. Thoughts?  Stepho  (talk) 00:59, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
RMB or CN¥ is preferable to "元"/CN元 ; font-issues and confusion. As for non RMB yuan, the Chinese yuan article clearly shows there are many other yuan from China, most pre-PRC. If you say that CNY is the RMB yuan, then so be it, but Russia has had atleast two different rubles since the collapse of the Soviet Union... so does each have a separate currently symbol? Thus my statement about non-RMB yuan and CNY usage. "CN" also refers to pre-PRC China, doesn't it? (talk) 08:54, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I understand you now - the Chinese Yuan has many historical contexts, while the RMB is the current currency. According to ISO 4217, CNY is exactly equivalent to RMB. Any historical Chinese yuans would have to use a different code that starts with CN but have different third letters (ie not Y). ISO 4217 does not list any other Chinese yuans - probably because ISO 4217 is concerned about modern currency transactions. Any yuans from other countries would not start with CN - the Japenese Yen ('JPY' = JP + Y = Japan + yen) comes to mind. So any article using {{CNY}} or {{RMB}} are explicitly talking about RenMenBi. If no-one objects in the next few days, I will make {{CNY}} display 'RMB 5' with a link to Renminbi and make {{RMB}} redirect to {{CNY}}.  Stepho  (talk) 10:01, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I've made the changes to {{CNY}} and {{RMB}}. I'll wait a couple more days and then modify the main project page to show the agreed format and how to use the templates.  Stepho  (talk) 07:05, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
I have reverted the change. The template {{RMB}} is used, but it is substituted when used. Alpha Quadrant talk 14:04, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

SN 1054

Help is needed in cleaning up SN 1054. It was recently greatly expanded (by 80kB!) from the French version of the article. Checking the Chinese astronomy and Chinese naming of records to comply with the names used on English wikipedia would be great. (talk) 07:20, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Proposal to merge Great Flood (of China) into Yu the Great#Epic flood

I believe that the new article Great Flood (of China) should be merged into the section we already have on the subject at Yu the Great. Comments at Talk:Yu the Great#Merger proposal would be appreciated. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 20:21, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Bengbu Airport coordinates (and existence)

Could someone who is familiar with the Bengbu area perhaps clear up the coordinates question described at Talk:Bengbu_Airport? The coordinates in the article point to a location where there is no sign of there being an airport. An airport can be seen from satellite photos just south of that location at 32°55′49″N 117°22′01″E / 32.930318°N 117.366943°E / 32.930318; 117.366943 but if you zoom in, it disappears (in Wikimapia, Acme, and Google Maps, but not in Google Earth). The poster of the {{geodata-check}} tag claims that the closer-in satellite photos are the more recent ones and implies that the airport no longer exists. There is another airport several km south of the city at 32°50′55″N 117°19′12″E / 32.848731°N 117.319908°E / 32.848731; 117.319908 which is labeled in Wikimapia as both Bengbu Airport and Huainan Airport (it's easiest to see both polygons in Google Earth). The tag poster says the southern airport is a military field and if closely examined there are, indeed, signs of it being such. Regards, TRANSPORTERMAN (TALK) 15:41, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Taiwan TV Show Article

Hello, I'm not a member of this project and I do not know if material from Taiwan is within your scope. But I noticed a newly-created article about a TV show that needs a great amount of improvement (or maybe deletion). See Westside Story (TV series). Sincerely, --DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 19:57, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

There's a more specific project WP:TAIWAN, there's also WP:TV. (talk) 04:52, 7 April 2011 (UTC)


{{RMB}} usage is under discussion, see Template talk:RMB. Also take note of the currency section above, on this talk page. (talk) 09:20, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Tiananmen Square deletions

Image:Tianasquare.jpg and Image:Tiananmen Square protests.jpg have been nominated for deletion. (talk) 07:03, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Image:TankMan.JPG has also been nominated for deletion. (talk) 06:08, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Type 86

I noticed that Type 86 doesn't have a separate article outside of BMP-1, however, the Iranian reverse engineered version does have a separate article. As Type 86 development substantially diverged from the BMP-1 vehicle, shouldn't it have a separate article? (talk) 06:52, 19 April 2011 (UTC)


You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Rosie O'Donnell#Does the "Chinese language parody" merit inclusion or not?. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 21:29, 19 April 2011 (UTC) (Using {{pls}})

Tagging for WikiProject China Transportation

I am currently in progress of tagging articles for this project. If you are willing to help, please do. Should the WPCHINA tag remain or be removed? — PCB 22:46, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

There's no such thing as Wikipedia:WikiProject China Transportation. Do you mean Wikipedia:WikiProject Transportation in China? If so, see the section above. --Kleinzach 23:27, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
The project is inactive, and should be merged somewhere. A project with one active member is not an active project. (talk) 07:37, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
Just curious, but why does someone in Canada use an IP all the time? --Kleinzach 09:38, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Zhuang jia shan for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Zhuang jia shan is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zhuang jia shan until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. --HXL's Roundtable and Record 18:41, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Discussion on the Manual of Style for China-related articles on the use of tone marks

A discussion about using tone marks in the flow of articles is taking place in the talk page of the Manual of Style for China-related articles. Seeing the result of the discussion may have tremendous consequences all over Wikipedia, members of this project might want to join in the discussion. _dk (talk) 00:20, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Transportation in China

The Transportation in China project, started in 2004, has long been inactive. (There are/were only four members.) Should it be made into a task force here or deleted via Mfd? Does anyone have an opinion on this? Thanks. --Kleinzach 10:24, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

I suggest: Merge it as a shared task force between WPCHINA and WPTRANSPORT, primarily residing in WPCHINA. (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:24, 19 April 2011 (UTC).
That would be possible. Do other people agree? --Kleinzach 06:27, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
I think that would be a good idea; unfortunately I've already tagged over 200 articles; all of which would have to be undone. I will pause the tagging until consensus is reached. — PCB 22:48, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
By tagging do you mean adding the Transportation in China project banner to article talk pages? --Kleinzach 02:22, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Yes, and unfortunately, removing the WPCHINA tag. (Since I thought WPCHINA was the parent of Transportation in China, and that would be redundant.) — PCB 02:58, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
This shouldn't be a problem. We can just redirect the 'Transportation in China' project banner to the 'China' project banner. --Kleinzach 03:04, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Anyhow, I endorse creating this as a task force of WPCHINA. — PCB 03:11, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
I would also endorse creating this as a task force of WPCHINA. I didn't know this project even existed, and now that I do, I would be interested in joining it.  –Nav  talk to me or sign my guestbook 03:05, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Someone has put a merger tag on Transportation in China project. A merger and a task force are actually different. A merger would simply make the project into a subpage of this one, whereas a task force would have members etc. and be a more complicated entity. Which would people prefer? --Kleinzach 03:27, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Although I can't really say for this one since I am a member of the project, but I think because of its parentage in relation to WP:TRANSPORT, it should be a task force, but please take the opinions of others as opposed to mine. — PCB 03:30, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Considering the limited number of participants in the project, a task force with members might not be feasible. My preference would be for merger, with it becoming a workgroup of both WPCHINA and WPTRANSPORT. In other words, it would have the same status as the Chinese history workgroup does currently, with a flag that is set on the banner, and the WikiProject Transport would give it the same status on theirs if they so chose.--Danaman5 (talk) 13:24, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
I've never heard of that solution before. Do you know how to implement it? --Kleinzach 03:05, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
The activity of a project is not determined by its members. Wikipedia:WikiProject Oklahoma State Highways has only one member. — PCB 04:25, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

(de-indent) I was under the impression that the project was largely inactive, due to the discussion above. Of course, if the project can stand on its own two feet, then it absolutely can be independent, but I don't know if that is the case here or not. The solution I proposed above is actually not really different from the shared task force idea mentioned earlier. I was just trying to integrate it with our current banner system, which uses workgroup flags. If we wanted to make it a joint workgroup, WPTRANSPORT could change their banner too, and then I think the articles in the workgroup could be listed at some central location. I'm not totally sure about all of the details of implementation, but I think everything can be done through banner modifications.--Danaman5 (talk) 11:22, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Right, sorry, having looked at the banners, I realized that what I was calling workgroups are actually called task forces by the template. The banner lets you select an assessment category for articles flagged as being part of being a particular task force, so it would just be a matter of coordinating with WPTRANSPORT to put the articles in the same category, and create a page for the shared task force.--Danaman5 (talk) 11:29, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
Right. I have converted projects into task forces (sometimes joint ones) several times in the past. If the consensus here is for that solution I can carry it out. --Kleinzach 15:29, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
WP:TRANSPORT is so large, I'm not even sure that they would care. They've got plenty of large WikiProjects under their scope. As long as the task force is a recognized child project of theirs, they don't need the articles in their categories. I'm sure other projects like WP:HWY, WP:TRAINS, and others would, as they have already done, put these articles under their scope. — PCB 22:42, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

If there are no more comments I'll make the change to a task force in a couple of days. --Kleinzach 01:14, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

 Done --Kleinzach 04:46, 4 May 2011 (UTC)


template:Mahjong has been nominated for deletion. (talk) 05:08, 4 May 2011 (UTC)


In the article concerning Jiayuguan, it says that the literal meaning of Jiayuguan is Excellent Valley Pass and the Chinese character guan means pass. It is technically incorrect, as the Chinese character guan literally means gate or fort. The mere fact that many forts or gates are constructed at passes are a testiment to the wisdom ancient strategists in recognising key strategic locations within one's territory and the need to control those locations. In the famous Chinese literary work, "The Romance of the Three Kingdoms" tells a story of how Guan Yu kills the defending general at each gate or fort Guan Yu encounters on his journey to re-unite with his blood brother Liu Pei. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 06:39, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Then what is your suggestion? Do you mean that the explanation of "guan" in the article Jiayuguan (pass) should be altered? If so, this suggestion doesn't agree with relevant articles. Please notice the translation of "guan" in Juyongguan, and in Guan Yu. Therefore, if translating "guan" as "pass" is problematic, I think it's better to correct all relevant materials.
Besides, though the translation as "pass" might not be perfect, translating the character simply as "fort" or "gate" is doubtable as well. In my personal view, a more equivalent translation is "fortified pass", because "guan" hold both the meaning of "military stronghold" and "pass in a mountainous region". A fort or gate without a pass to secure is not a "guan". First, there is the pass. And then, the pass is fortified to become "guan". So I think though "pass" ignores the military value of "guan", it's acceptable. Do you have other recommendations to translate "guan"?--Certiffon (talk) 17:03, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Chinese Inkstone

Chinese Inkstone has been requested to be renamed, see talk:Chinese Inkstone (talk) 04:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

List of Canadian cities with large Chinese populations

List of Canadian cities with large Chinese populations has been nominated for deletion. (talk) 05:31, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Futian Port Control Point

Futian Port Control Point has been requested to be renamed. (talk) 04:38, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Huanggang Port Control Point

Huanggang Port Control Point has been requested to be renamed. (talk) 04:45, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Kwantung / Guandong

Kwantung , Guandong , Guandong province need cleanup. The two dab pages should probably be merged into one dab page. "Kwantung" itself needs cleanup and expansion. Then there's the need to choose a name, either "Kwantung" (WG) or "Guandong" (Pinyin) and confusion with Guangdong/Kwangtung/Canton. (talk) 04:58, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

HK and Macau border crossing category / template renaming discussion

In connection to some recent renamings, please see the discussion Template talk:Guangdong – Hong Kong border crossings. This also concerns Macau. -- Vmenkov (talk) 15:47, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

See also {{Guangdong - Macau border crossings}} and template talk:Guangdong - Macau border crossings for a second discussion. (talk) 04:02, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Categories "Guangdong – Hong Kong border crossings" & "Guangdong – Macau border crossings"

Category:Guangdong – Hong Kong border crossings and Category:Guangdong – Macau border crossings have been proposed to be changed to Category:China–Macau border crossings and Category:China – Hong Kong border crossings. (talk) 04:14, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Requested move of Taihu Lake

Hello all: please give your input on the proposal at Talk:Taihu Lake. –HXL's Roundtable and Record 14:05, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Gongbei Port of Entry

Gongbei Port of Entry has been requested to be renamed. (talk) 03:51, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Towns Taskforce

I cannot possibly single-handedly create articles for all the 20000+ township-level divisions of the PRC, so I will need some help here. Until the task force is formally created, follow this link for the page. Thanks –HXL's Roundtable and Record 17:05, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Creating articles for townships?! Don't take me wrong - I strongly believe that each zhen and xiang is notable (and maybe most urban jiedao too), and I have created (or "appropriated") articles for a few of them. However, considering that most county-level articles are presently just one-liners, I feel that the emphasis on creating articles for all lower-level units is somewhat misdirected. Would not it be better for editors to put more work into growing county articles from a one-line size to a one-page size at least? Once there is enough material in a county article discussing particular towns/townships, then of course such articles may be created by the interested editors on as-needed basis. -- Vmenkov (talk) 18:52, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
I think that a township taskforce is definitely needed. I feel like once we have the articles on towns within a particular county, it will be easier to link to those towns from the county article through templates and the like. Our situation right now, where we often only have one random township in a county, does not facilitate linking. On an unrelated note, someone really has to change the text for Wenquan, Xinghai County.--Danaman5 (talk) 01:43, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
"Someone really has to change the text for Wenquan, Xinghai County" - someone surely ought to! Of course, you may be the first editor to have looked at this article in a year, so we may wait for a long time for someone with time on his hands and an interest in the topic to run across it again. The county government, or failing that, the prefecture government, just might have some non-trivial information about the place on their web site after all. (How did an article like this get created? Simple: someone put the coordinates for this Wenquan into an article for another Wenquan, and to avoid confusion, I split the that article into two.) -- Vmenkov (talk) 02:26, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
Well, many of the prefecture-level city articles are bare too, and considering that many of them have total administrative populations in the millions, this is a shame. –HXL's Roundtable and Record 02:21, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

New Portal: Shanghai

Hey guys! I made a new portal: Portal:Shanghai WhisperToMe (talk) 02:43, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Deletion nominationS

Wangtang, Guilin, Wangtang, Anhui, Wangtang, Guangdong, Wangtang, Hunan, and Wangtang (northwest of Guilin), Guangxi have all been nominated for deletion here. –HXL's Roundtable and Record 05:22, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm getting an insight into Wiki-bureaucracy right here. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 01:29, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Then you have not seen the serious bureaucratic behaviour that some sysops will take on. —HXL's Roundtable and Record 01:38, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Proposal to merge White Terror (mainland China) into Shanghai massacre of 1927

I believe that the new article White Terror (mainland China) should be merged into the article Shanghai massacre of 1927. Please provide input here Ferox Seneca (talk) 23:15, 26 May 2011 (UTC)


The ethnic slur against Chinese, "Chink", has been requested to be renamed, see Talk:Chink. (talk) 05:12, 28 May 2011 (UTC)


i'm moving to pudong and this page helped me A LOT! — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:52, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Request for comment

Discussing rename of prejudicial term "Chink" to more appropriate article title06:38, 31 May 2011 (UTC)


Category:Chinamen has been nominated for deletion. (talk) 04:09, 1 June 2011 (UTC)


Our article on Foxmail has been nominated for deletion.[5] So far, none of the editors participating in the discussion can speak Chinese, so it's a bit difficult to assess its notability. Also, there may be some other issues with the article as it has multiple tags. Perhaps someone here can help us out? Thanks. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 17:35, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Portal:Republic of China (ROC) is up for deletion

I have placed Republic of China (ROC) portal for deletion at WP:MFD. Please comment here for any concerns. Thanks, JJ98 (Talk) 20:57, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I left a comment here regarding similar articles that can also be flagged for deletion. We should get a consensus. Benjwong (talk) 06:02, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Drivers safety in China

I found a source:

WhisperToMe (talk) 19:55, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Requested move of Pearl River (China)

Please give your input here. Thanks much—HXL's Roundtable and Record 01:08, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Shanghai and Shanghai Metro wikiprojects

  1. There's a proposal to create a Shanghai wikiproject, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Shanghai
  2. There's a proposal to create a Shanghai Metro wikiproject, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Shanghai Metro. (talk) 08:44, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

RFD renomination for Datang town (Chengdu Datang)

Please give your input here. Thanks much —HXL's Roundtable and Record 17:25, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Renomination of Wangtang (northwest of Guilin), Guangxi for deletion

Go here if you wish to participate. —HXL's Roundtable and Record 17:25, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


I have nominated Felice Beato for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. GamerPro64 20:02, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Sources for civil war of Wa

The Civil war of Wa is mentioned in a number of old Chinese histories. To expand that article, I am looking for quotes from the following books that mention this war: Book of Liang, Book of Sui and the History of Northern Dynasties. These quotes are probably very short (a sentence or two each). Preferrably I am looking for English translations, though any other language I can make sense of (German, Spanish, Dutch, French, ....) is fine as well. The corresponding Japanese article has the quotes in Japanese, but I am looking for a reliable source and, as mentioned, ideally in English. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. bamse (talk) 22:55, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Luckily for you, Chinese Wikisource has the entire Book of Sui online, at <>. Use Google Chrome if you have difficulty reading 1300-year-old Chinese.
Chinese Wikisource also has the History of the Northern Dynasties online, at <>.
No luck on the Book of Liang.Ferox Seneca (talk) 20:07, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Unfortunately my ability to read Chinese (let alone 1300 year old Chinese) is non-existent and automatic translation did not bring up anything meaningful either. I have no idea how much old Chinese differs from current Chinese, but maybe somebody knowledgable in Chinese could help. Fortunately I only need two sentences: from [6] "桓、靈之間,其國大亂,遞相攻伐,歷年無主。有女子名卑彌呼,能以鬼道惑衆,於是國人共立爲王。" and from [7] "靈帝光和中,其國亂,遞相攻伐,歷年無主". bamse (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
My best translations:
1) "In the reign of Huandi and Lingdi (c.141-186 AD) there was a country that was in great disorder, whose inhabitants had gradually gone to war against each other; so that, over the years, it came to be without a ruler. There was a woman there who was named "Bei Mihu"; who, by the use of spirits (/craftiness), was able confuse many people, so that her countrymen together made her their monarch.".
2) "In the reign of Lingdi there was a country that was in great disorder, whose inhabitants had gradually gone to war against each other; so that, over the years, it came to be without a ruler."Ferox Seneca (talk) 21:36, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Sounds great, thanks a lot! Two questions and one request: Could Bei Mihu be the same as Himiko? Doesn't Huandi's reign start in 146/7 and doesn't Lingdi's reign end in 189? Could you have a quick glance at the sentences just before and after, i.e. in [8] and [9] and see whether they relate to this war or not (likely not)? bamse (talk) 22:00, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
The reign times aren't in the text (I added them), so if there is a mistake in the time that those two monarchs reigned, it is my mistake.
The first link mostly discusses Korean (pre-) history, especially relating to the relationship between various Korean kingdoms and China. Close to the end it discusses Korea's relationship with a (prehistoric) Japanese kingdom, around the end of the Han Dynasty. The second document discusses a similar subject: the history and culture of various non-Han people around northern China. Google Translator does a terrible job of translating both of these documents, probably because the language is old and formal, so somebody will probably have to do it manually. The first one is cool: it talks about human sacrifice, people being born from eggs, and things like that. "Bei Mihu" is definitely "Himiko", but in Mandarin. There is a section that discusses that country's politics, which I'll try to translate for you in the next day or two. A later section of the second document discusses the politics of Himiko's Japan. Both of these are definitely relevant to your research.Ferox Seneca (talk) 00:56, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks again. If by "country's politics" you mean that of the time of Himiko, I am not sure it is that relevant for the war, since it happened after the war. Also, all of those Chinese Dynastic Histories are somewhat similar and I have the story according to the Wei Zhi in English on pages six to eight in this book and the story according to the Book of Later Han on pages 8 to 9 of the same book. So unless, there is something said on how Himiko ended the war, there is no need to translate it. I was mainly interested in the translation of the sentences discussing the war since the timings differ slightly from history to history. bamse (talk) 07:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
The passage of your book is a good translation of the original Chinese. It includes the first sentence you asked to translate (but, of course, I like my translation better). Good luck on your research.Ferox Seneca (talk) 19:41, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Instead of "there was a country" it should say "that country", since the context establishes which country this refers to. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 04:48, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Overseas Chinese restaurant

The recently created Overseas Chinese restaurant could probably benefit from attention by editors familiar with overseas Chinese culture and cuisine. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:25, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Direct-controlled municipality of Taiwan -> Special municipality of Taiwan

I've noticed recently that Direct-controlled municipality of Taiwan was moved to Special municipality of Taiwan without discussion as far as I can tell. I'm not sure if that's a proper rename or not, so I thought I'd drop a line and let you know. --JaGatalk 18:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

It is less of a faithful translation of the original term in Chinese, but it is still somehow the ROC official translation. —HXL's Roundtable and Record 21:32, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
It seems to be a holdover from the distant days (pre-1930) when direct-controlled municipalities in the Republic of China were named 特别市, see zh:特别市. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:24, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Question about Diaoyu and Diaoyutai naming

Dear experts of Chinese culture and language,

There is a matter about whether or not "Diaoyu", "Tiaoyu", "Diaoyutai", and "Tiaoyutai" are distinctively different names. Since this may involve some intimate knowledge of the Chinese language, I thought this will be a right place to direct the question to. Since a thread about this had already began in Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names), I decided to mirror paste parts of it in this page (the excluded section, which is rather irrelevant, can be found in Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#Further_debates_between_involved_parties):— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobthefish2 (talkcontribs)

I have removed the pasted part from here as there's a link pointing to the content in other site already. STSC (talk) 03:04, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Former autonomous territory

What former(1949-2011) autonomous regions, prefectures and counties were in China(PRC)? When I get information about them?--Kaiyr (talk) 08:51, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Could you be clearer as to what you mean by China and autonomous? (ie. something from the Xia dynasty as well as the PRC, only the PRC, etc? What of the issue of Two Chinas? (ROC is autonomous from the PRC...)) (talk) 05:50, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
I agree: you need to be clearer about what you are asking for. Are you asking for information about modern "Autonomous Regions", like Tibet and Xinjiang? If that is what you are looking for, you can find a map here, and then just google the regions that you are looking for. If you are requesting information about independent political units that have formed during periods when the central government has weakened, you need to be more specific about what time periods you are interested in. China splits into independent political units fairly regularly: I'd say the central government collapses approximately once every 200 years, with a high standard deviation. The political units that form to fill the vacuum aren't the same every time.Ferox Seneca (talk) 06:15, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Ethnic population

Where I get information about ethnic composition of the population of province, county and prefecture of China? It is desirable In English. Where I get ethnic map of South China?--Kaiyr (talk) 15:22, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

A decent ethno-linguistic map can be found here. Is there a particular ethnic group or province that you need information on?Ferox Seneca (talk) 06:53, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
Thank you! I want especially autonomous regions, county and prefecture and South China.--Kaiyr (talk) 08:26, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
The only Autonomous Region in southern China is Guangxi. There was a KMT guerilla movement active in Yunnan into the 1960s (possibly making parts of it semi-autonomous?), but I'm not sure if that is what you are looking for. Wikipedia's articles on Chinese provinces generally include ethnic composition in the side bar.Ferox Seneca (talk) 15:39, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
For example former Hainan Li-miao autonomous prefecture(1952-1988) in Hainan province.--Kaiyr (talk) 18:07, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia does have pages on the Autonomous prefectures of the People's Republic of China, Autonomous counties of China, and Autonomous areas of China. I think there is some overlap between these pages, so I hope that you can find what you are looking for by using them.Ferox Seneca (talk) 18:50, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

China's largest city?

The perennial dispute whether Chongqing may be treated as a city or not has erupted again.

Summary The dispute is whether Shanghai or Chongqing is the largest city (pop.) of the PRC. The main argument in favor of Chongqing as the "largest city" is that it is the largest administratively. The argument in favour of Shanghai is that in the PRC, a municipality is not the same as a city. Please leave your comments atTalk:Shanghai BsBsBs (talk) 19:07, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Genealogy of sinitic scripts

Genealogy of sinitic scripts has been nominated for deletion. (talk) 05:32, 28 June 2011 (UTC)


Wokou is requested to be renamed to Wakō, see Talk:Wokou. This moves the article from the Chinese name to the Japanese name, for pirates of Japanese extraction who attacked Korea and China. The Korean term is Waegu. (talk) 05:59, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

To be a bit more precise, there is an ongoing rename discussion at Talk:Wokou as to whether the article should be renamed from "Wokou" to "Wako". If you are familiar with the topic, feel free to join the discussion. -- 李博杰  | Talk contribs email 04:50, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Ambassadors of the People's Republic of China

After slowly gathering all of the required information over the course of several months, I have just created Ambassadors of the People's Republic of China, using Ambassadors of the United States as my model. I hope that everyone can help create the list articles for the Chinese ambassador to each individual country, as well as articles on the ambassadors themselves. If US ambassadors can have these lists and articles, I think that Chinese ambassadors are important enough to have them too.--Danaman5 (talk) 00:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Boxer Rebellion at the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard

There's a dispute about using Chinese scholarship relating to the Boxer Rebellion at the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard. Some third opinions from any editors who are familiar with this area, especially using non-English sources, balancing opposing/fringe POVs, or Chinese history, would be very helpful. Ocaasi t | c 21:42, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Other census results

Where can I get other census results 1940-90 years with ethnic population? And data of ethnic composition in 2010 census?--Kaiyr (talk) 13:47, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Maoist China phraseology

Maoist China phraseology (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) has been nominated for deletion. (talk) 05:08, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Requested move of China

To Chinese civilisation, and to remove the '(disambiguation)' tag from the DAB page China (disambiguation). This is a major move, so do give your input. —HXL's Roundtable and Record 17:55, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Not that this case isn't exceptional, but many move and delete requests have been posted on this talk page lately, and I want to remind everyone that you can watch the article alerts for WikiProject China for regular updates on this sort of thing. If someone has the coding expertise, it would help to make the alerts more prominent on main project page, à la WikiProject Conservatism. Quigley (talk) 18:09, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
I have added an article alerts scroll box to the main project page and a link to the navigation box per your suggestion.--Danaman5 (talk) 23:22, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


If there are no objections, I will consolidate the archives so there are two archives per year, instead of one per month, which is excessive. —HXL's Roundtable and Record 17:59, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to changing the number of archives in principle, but I fear that two per year might be too few. If we had one archive of the posts from January 1-June 30, and another from July 1-December 31, the number of posts could be well over 100 by the end of each period. I think that the 56 or so on this page now is already too many. Maybe four per year? Also, if we are going to be changing our archiving practices anyway, should we consider setting up one of those automatic archiving bots?--Danaman5 (talk) 23:08, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
I wanted each new archive to be at most 200 KB...hence the idea of 2 per year. All right then, if there is no opposition I will soon merge them into quarters, and set up archiving by MiszaBot. What should the idling time be? 30, 60, or 90 days? —HXL: 聊天 (T) 貢獻 (C) 23:16, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
90 days seems good, judging by current activity. It makes the project look active, while not having a very long page, and allows less active people to see past recent discussions. (talk) 05:12, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

RM notice: China

A move request has been filed for China to be made a disambiguation page. See Talk:China. Nightw 18:34, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


Hi guys, can anyone help me to romanize some Chinese names ? I have a long list romanized in Taiwanese version. one of them is Tsien Yu-kai, can anybody romanize this name ? thanks in advance. Mohsen1248 (talk) 00:10, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

I have always found direct conversion between Wade-Giles and Pinyin to be difficult because Wade-Giles' consonant system is not completely phonetic. (The above name looks like it could be "Qian Yukai", but that is just a guess). If you can provide a list of the characters in the names that you are asking about, it will be much easier to produce those names in pinyin for you.Ferox Seneca (talk) 01:14, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
Or, as an alternative, you could just run those characters through a translator. My favourite translator is <>.Ferox Seneca (talk) 01:22, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
I really appreciate your help, it's the list of Chinese athletes who won medal in 1974 Asian Games, for whatever reason, they are all listed in Taiwanese version. thanks for <>, it looks fine, I already knew some online translators but I couldn't trust them. Mohsen1248 (talk) 11:48, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

United States v. Wong Kim Ark and Taishanese name pronunciations

Please look at United States v. Wong Kim Ark. This article contains several Chinese names. In addition to the Anglicized forms by which these people were known in the U.S., the names are also given in Chinese characters, and the pronunciations are given in Taishanese (since the people in question were originally from Taishan). Do people agree that the way the names are included and described is proper and consistent with the way Taishanese names are treated elsewhere in Wikipedia? If not, please feel free to offer suggestions or edit the article as appropriate. Thanks.

I should probably say, as well, that the article used to show the pronunciations of these names, not only in Taishanese, but also in Cantonese and Mandarin. I removed the Cantonese and Mandarin pronunciations just now, in part because they didn't seem relevant when discussing people who may never have pronounced their own names in those dialects, but also because the multiplicity of pronunciations seemed to introduce just too much clutter into the article. Any thoughts on this? Richwales (talk · contribs) 03:59, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

You can always have use Template:Chinese to put in everything and still not cause clutter to the main text body. I agreed, native pronunciations should be given priority for inclusion. However, per WP:MOS-ZH, terms with articles should generally not have extra language information. —HXL: 聊天 (T) 貢獻 (C) 04:08, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
{{Chinese}} is one idea, but I'm not sure how this should apply in this case, when we are not dealing with the central subject of the article. If any name is "relevant", that must surely be the Cantonese, because that is the name in the court filing. My inclination would be to leave the Sinograms, for information only, but to remove the Taishanese (and all other pronunciation systems) as not being relevant to the case. The case is American, and nothing in the case directly stems from his Taishanese name. --Ohconfucius ¡digame! 04:25, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
Also, you can do almost anything when using footnotes. —HXL: 聊天 (T) 貢獻 (C) 04:29, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
If their native dialect is Hoisanese, then it should be Hoisanese and not Cantonese that is used. (talk) 06:20, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
My impression is that the "name[s] in the court filings" were not Cantonese, but Anglicized butcherings of the Taishanese pronunciations. In case it may be relevant, this was the late 1800s / early 1900s, the people involved were from the group that constituted the bulk of the early immigration to Northern California, and my recollection from the source material I read at the National Archives several years ago is that there were repeated references in the immigration proceedings to the "See Yip dialect" (presumably same as Sze Yup). If anyone is interested, here is the version of the article before I removed the Cantonese and Mandarin pronunciations. At the moment, I'm somewhat partial to Ohconfucius's suggestion that all the pronunciations should be removed, but since I don't know any Chinese at all, I would like to defer to the expertise of people who do know the language(s) and who have a feel for how similar pages are being handled elsewhere in Wikipedia. Richwales (talk · contribs) 22:30, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

FLC of List of National Treasures of Japan (writings: Chinese books)


Hi! I nominated List of National Treasures of Japan (writings: Chinese books) at featured list candidates and would be very happy if somebody could have a look at it, checking for these criteria and leaving questions/comments/suggestions and possibly a vote (support/oppose) on the nomination page. Thanks. bamse (talk) 19:54, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

The article has been listed as Nominations urgently needing reviews, meaning that is in danger of failing the nomination because of a lack of reviews. Hopefully somebody will find the time to do a review of it. bamse (talk) 16:54, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Requested move of Jimo City Jimo alone. Please give your input at Talk:Jimo City#Requested move. —HXL: 聊天 (T) 貢獻 (C) 17:14, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Generic antecedents in Mandarin

Hi, I want to put the following passage into the article generic antecedent, which discusses what pronoun is used in referring back to a human antecedent that is no one in particular:

In spoken Mandarin Chinese, and in the pinyin form of writing Mandarin in the Latin alphabet, there is no distinction between "he" and "she" ( in each case), nor is there a distinction between "they (masculine)" and "they (feminine)" (tāmen in each case). However, when Mandarin is written in characters, a gender distinction is made: is written as 他 or 她 or 它 for "he", "she", or "it" respectively, with -men (們/们) added for the plural. For a plural generic antecedent such as "people (in general)", the referring pronoun will always be written as the masculine plural form unless the generic group is known to be inherently female (as in "women (in general)"), in which case the feminine form is used. For a singular generic antecedent such as "someone", the referring pronoun is always written as the masculine singular form.

Can someone confirm for me that this is both correct and complete? Thanks. Duoduoduo (talk) 17:47, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

The only part that gives me pause is the last sentence. I feel like "某人" or "有人" is usually used to mean "someone". Maybe I'm just not thinking of whatever phrase you had in mind when writing that. There is "其他的人”,"other people", which uses the masculine form.--Danaman5 (talk) 18:15, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
What I have in mind is a sentence like "If someone gets hurt, it is his own fault", or "If someone gets hurt, it is his or her own fault." How would you write "his"/"his or her"? Duoduoduo (talk) 20:17, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:China-related topics notice board/ZHCOTM

Ok folks, I've reactivated the collaboration of the month - the idea is to look at which articles can be buffed, hopefully to GA or FA level. I find that many GAs and FAs are of narrower topics, so maybe some of the biggies are best done like this. All input welcome at Wikipedia:China-related topics notice board/ZHCOTM. After all, collaborative editing is the key to this place, isn't it? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:43, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Future of Wikipedia:China-related topics notice board and Wikipedia talk:China-related topics notice board

The two pages linked above are prominently linked in the navigation sidebar for WikiProject China. However, they seem to receive relatively few views and relatively little use.

Wikipedia:China-related topics notice board has received 126 views in the last 30 days. Many of the notifications are considerably out of date and/or replicate functionality now provided automatically at Wikipedia:WikiProject China/Article alerts.

Wikipedia talk:China-related topics notice board has received 124 views in the last 30 days. People have posted notifications there recently, but no discussion seems to occur there, and it is difficult to determine if anyone is actually reading what is posted.

This page, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China, on the other hand, has received 899 views in the last 30 days, and is clearly the place where actual discussion of project and article issues occurs.

Given these facts, I believe that we should deprecate these two pages to avoid confusion and splitting of discussions. We could take Wikipedia:China-related topics notice board/Announcement and turn it into something like WP:CENT for WikiProject China, listing only the current collaboration of the month, if one exists, and other announcements about project discussions that are not covered by article alerts. Putting that on the main project page or this talk page, combined with article alerts, would give us all of the functionality that these two pages once provided and adjust it to our standard practice of discussing issues on this page. What do people think about this?--Danaman5 (talk) 01:50, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Strongly agree on streamlining - only need one noticeboard not two. Not fussed how it is done though, any way is good. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:52, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Well, the noticeboard is named unfamiliarly... usually there are regional notice boards, for regions, but this is a China related topic notice board... so isn't the China/Chinese Wikipedian noticeboard.
The noticeboard should focus on topics of interest to editors on China or Chinese editors, which are not bannered with WPCHINA, while WPCHINA should cover those that are bannered or should be bannered or affecting those that are bannered. (talk) 06:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Though... France merged the noticboard into the wikiproject. UK merged the wikiproject into the noticeboard. (talk) 06:07, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

"Chinese name" hatnote proposal

I started a discussion on the Village Pump as I believe these types of templates would be less jarring if they appeared as a supplementary footnote rather than a "warning" above the lead. Please take a look and leave your thoughts. —Designate (talk) 02:32, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Peer review open for Chinese Indonesians

Hello. I have opened a peer review on the recently rewritten article on Chinese Indonesians, which has also received a copyedit from the Guild of Copy Editors. I would like to bring the article to featured status and am soliciting input from participants of relevant projects on possible improvements. Thank you in advance for any suggestion. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 18:24, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Outer Northwest China

Input from those who read Chinese, and can search for the Chinese equivalent of "Outer Northwest China", is welcome in the above discussion. Thanks! Location (talk) 16:58, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

References needed for Shanghai

Hi all, if anyone has any decent secondary sources which discuss Shanghai in detail, they'd be very welcome to add them to the article - see Talk:Shanghai/GA1 for noting which sections and statements were unreferenced (cntrl-F "unreferenced" is a good way to find them, or look thru the article). Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:58, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Overview navboxes for each province

Each province has a navbox that shows mostly county-level and administrative divisions. Template:Shanxi is a typical example.

I would like to create a navbox with an overview for each province like Barbados, Wales, and the newly created Hainan Province.

I think that such a template would give a great at-a-glance view of the flavour of the province. Plus it would help visitors navigate beyond geographical locations. Such navboxes could really help visitors learn more about each province.

The two navboxes could be kept separate from each other for these reasons:

  • Visitors to a town article may not need an "overview" navbox, but would find a "county-level divisions" navbox useful.
  • Visitors to a cusine article may be more interested in the culture, and so may not want a "county-level divisions" navbox, but would find an "overview" navbox useful.

A discussion took place here. Xiaoyu (HXL) isn't crazy about the idea, but I'm not exactly sure why. We would like to continue the discussion here in order to involve others' opinions. We could produce them in a subpage here at Project China. I'm willing to do most of the work. Don't be afraid to say it's a stupid idea. I won't be offended. What do you think? Would this be useful to visitors? :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:31, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, no feedback for three days. It seems that editors don't really care about this.

Xiaoyu (HXL): Please let me know if you object flat out, or have suggestions. Please let me know if you will nominate them for deletion if I start to create them. I will start on a conventional layout here User:Anna Frodesiak/Gold sandbox. Thank you. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:32, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Of course I object flat out to not including counties because, as I have said, we can easily model the templates after the US states, which, except for perhaps Texas, are heavily geographic and list all the counties. In fact, visitors to an article on a town (4th level division) may perhaps wish to read on the rest of the county (3rd level), which is the most specific our province templates go. I don't object to separation but it is clear that if the counties in the US state templates could stand so long, readers are interested in the places.
Perhaps there is little response because of the activity at Talk:China? Poor timing. Oh well—Xiaoyu: 聊天 (T) 贡献 (C) 00:49, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
I definitely like the county navbox. That should remain in any and all articles you wish. I am proposing a new navbox to co-exist with the county navbox - one below the other. Do you think such an additional navbox (like the examples at User:Anna Frodesiak/Gold sandbox would be okay?
And yes, this page is a bit of a graveyard what with all the mayhem at the PRC discussion. Last I checked it was a bit nuts over there. I'm considering quietly unwatching that page. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:00, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, I don't see any objections. I'm going to get started. Please, if anyone intends to AfD them, speak now so I don't waste my time. Thanks. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Also, input is welcome at User:Anna Frodesiak/Gold sandbox. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:16, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Objections to what? Please do not replace the current templates with those that only mention the prefectures and/or give a link to the List of administrative divisions... —Xiaoyu: 聊天 (T) 贡献 (C) 03:28, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
I have no idea what that means. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:31, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Neither did I have an idea what you meant by the comment "I'm going to get started. Please if anyone intends to AfD them". 1) Broadly speaking, prefectures are the political divisions directly below the province. 2) The templates {{Anhui}}, {{Fujian}}, etc give links to each of the main topics (e.g. History of...) and the rest is devoted to listing the prefecture-level and then the county-level divisions. I strenuously oppose any attempt to eliminate the simple list of these places. If American readers do not question similar listings in the US state templates, I don't see why we should. Surely I am willing to simplify the place lists by adding a colour key so county-level divisions do not have to be spelled out in full. —Xiaoyu: 聊天 (T) 贡献 (C) 03:55, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
You have no idea what "I'm going to get started. Please if anyone intends to AfD them" means? It means: "I'm going to start to create the navboxes. If you object, tell me now, before I start." Plain English.
Again, (and again, and again, and again): I have no intention of touching {{Anhui}}, {{Fujian}}, etc. I don't care that they contain a single topics line (e.g. Topics History • Politics • Economy • Music • Cuisine). I know you merged them into the templates. But that's not my concern. This is, again, about new navboxes similar to Template:Wales topics. Do you have objection to my creating such navboxes? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Let me guess. As I've written a few times now, I have no intention of removing or altering the existing List of administrative divisions template. However, eventually, I would like to see said templates renamed from the current "XXXX Province" to "Administrative divisions of XXXX Province" because that's what they are about.
FYI: I intend on naming the new templates "XXXX Province topics".
Xiaoyu: I've been pretty clear about my objectives here. You seem to either not understand, or have not read what I've written, or are ignoring what I've written.
In a nutshell: I am about to create new navboxes resembling Template:Wales topics to co-exist with the Administrative divisions navboxes - one below the other. Please comment on these new navboxes, not on the existing admin divisions navboxes. Do you object?? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:48, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
I misunderstood, and if you could have stated much earlier that you were not going to touch the existing templates, there would have been none of this fuss. Go on then. If you don't object, I will move {{Hainan}} to {{Hainan topics}}, and at Template:Hainan, intend to revert back to match the other provinces. Sorry for the misunderstanding. —Xiaoyu: 聊天 (T) 贡献 (C) 04:29, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Stated it much earlier? I did, seven times:
  • "...The two navboxes could be kept separate from each other..."
  • "...I definitely like the county navbox. That should remain in any and all articles you wish. I am proposing a new navbox to co-exist with the county navbox - one below the other..."
  • "...FYI: I intend on naming the new templates "XXXX Province topics"...."
  • "...I have no intention of removing or altering the existing List of administrative divisions template..."
  • "...keeping them apart makes sense both aesthetically, for ease of navigation..."
  • "...county-level navboxes should be separate..."
  • "...I will stay out of decision about administrative divisions and what should be included. I do care that they are not part of the main template that has lots of topics...."
Anyway, it looks like we are finally on the same page. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Yes, please move Hainan to Hainan topics. If you have input about the layout, please let me know at my sandbox. Thank you. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:41, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

The forthcoming topics navboxes

I don't mind doing the work of putting them together. But, I could sure use some feedback on the layout. A simple "Looks good, Anna. Go nuts." would suffice. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:17, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:17, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

County / city of Yi Wu

The history of YiWu stretches back to 3rd century BC, so why isn't Yi Wu on relatively recent western hard copy maps of the area i.e. Phillips, Times, Aldine, not even Hermann's 'Historical Atlas of China? Dongyang is located but it's a smaller city, so why not Yi Wu? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 09:50, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Maybe you should write to the publishers.Ferox Seneca (talk) 17:26, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Fake population numbers for Chinese cities

Please have a look at this. There seem to be people who cannot stand the true size of Chinese cities. BsBsBs (talk) 19:08, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

There are over half a dozen different ways to calculate the populations of Chinese cities. If two different sources disagree, it doesn't mean that either one is wrong.Ferox Seneca (talk) 19:56, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
If a reference is given, and the reference does not agree with the text, then it's wrong. The data cited must be in the reference. This is not a case of two different source disagreeing. These entries have one source each, and the number does not agree with the source. This breaks all rules. The editor performs his own math. This is data manipulation to put it mildly. You can't say Shanghai has a population of 17,836,133 and point to a source that says the population is 23,019,148. BsBsBs (talk) 21:12, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Prefecture ethnic composition in PRC

When I get information about ethnic composition of prefecture in PRC/ Especially prefectures of Heilongjiang, Jilin, Yunnan, Liaoning, Guizhou and Sichuan.--Kaiyr (talk) 15:58, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Navboxes for China provinces

I finished adding content and formatting them. Here is a sample:

{{collapsible option}} [[Category:Shandong]] [[Category:China templates]] [[Category:Asia territory (non-sovereign) templates]] [[Category:Country and territory topics templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]

Before I add them to the mainspace, please comment and advise on:

  • [ [ Categories ] ]
  • Bells and whistles
  • Teeny image
  • Possible color scheme

The rest are here. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:13, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

If these templates are not going to replace the existing administrative division templates, are they intended to be placed on a different set of articles, or on the same page alongside the existing templates? I didn't see this question clearly answered above.--Danaman5 (talk) 22:53, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Alongside. Actually, Which would be topmost, second down, etc. is something I haven't thought about. Is there a guideline? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:04, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

 Done Category:People's Republic of China administrative division templates Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:08, 2 August 2011 (UTC)