Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics

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Controvery section on Colossus aricle[edit]

There is a controversy section on the Colossus (comics) article, which seems like it would be worth a mention somewhere, although to have such a detailed section on the character when it really has very little to do with the character himself, seems misplaced. 2602:304:CE74:9630:543:BC49:23B8:9A3 (talk) 16:50, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

The controversy is not really about the character but about what the artist did. It should be at his article or the X-Men Gold article if there is one.★Trekker (talk) 16:53, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
There is not an X-Men Gold article currently, so I agree that it belongs at Ardian Syaf where it is currently well-covered. (talk) 04:27, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Two articles on Timing[edit]

Could I have some people looking at the edit histories of Timing (manhwa)‎ and Timing (film), and get some input on whether or not the two articles should remain split? ~Mable (chat) 20:44, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

In their current condition, the film article should be redirected to the manhwa article. It doesn't appear to have any information not already located in the Adaptation section, but it does have other issues (The plot summary ends with "watch it yourself."). Argento Surfer (talk) 15:24, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
This is what I've been telling other editors in edit summaries and Talk:Timing (manhwa). ~Mable (chat) 16:02, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

move discussion relisted[edit]

Greetings! I have recently relisted a requested move discussion at Talk:X2 (film)#Requested move 10 April 2017, regarding a page relating to this WikiProject. Discussion and opinions are invited. Thanks, Yashovardhan (talk) 16:35, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

RfC on the WP:ANDOR guideline[edit]

Hi, all. Opinions are needed on the following: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#RfC: Should the WP:ANDOR guideline be softened to begin with "Avoid unless" wording or similar?. A WP:Permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:03, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Problematic category[edit]

Not sure what the impetus was behind Category:American superheroes. (talk) 03:03, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm also dubious on Category:Animated series villains. (talk) 03:20, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
These categories seem pretty straightforward and well-defined to me. What exactly is the issue? ~Mable (chat) 09:45, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Well, the "animated series villains" is pretty broad, especially considering that there are only 56 entries at the moment. And I have no idea how "American superheroes is defined... created by Americans? Appearing in American media? Identifies as a fictional American citizen within the media? If that last group, then a bunch of the entries in the category do not fit. If that is a legitimate category, it should have hundreds of entries, if not thousands, but we are looking at only 41. (talk) 11:17, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Ah, well, as for the superheroes category: it is a subcategory of Category:Superheroes by ethnicity or nationality, so I assume it is about the fictional nationality of the superheroes themselves. I'll be sure to add this line to the category for clarity. I don't think we have thousands of articles on (American) superheroes, though, so you're vastly overestimating the situation. Same with animated series villains. It's not particularly common for characters in animated series to get their own article, so I expect this category is unlikely to ever get over 300 or so entries. ~Mable (chat) 11:22, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
I wonder if comics characters, such as Penguin (comics) and The Joker (comics), should be listed in the animated villains category at all. I don't know how these kinds of situations are handled, though. ~Mable (chat) 11:25, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Exactly the problem, neither of these categories are clearly defined - or if they are, then the definitions are not being followed. (talk) 05:31, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
It's actually fairly common for characters that originate from one medium to be listed in lists related to another medium they are used in. I'm glad you bring this up, though, because then it can be discussed and a simple explanation added to the category's page. Perhaps it depends on whether the animated series these villains starred in is notable on its own? I honestly don't really care all that much, but maybe someone else in the project can give input on it? ~Mable (chat) 18:22, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
I've never noticed much interest in the categories on this particular talk page, with the exception of the variations on MCU characters. I suggest being bold in fixing any issues. If anyone does have strong feelings, on the subject, I'm sure they'll let you know. Argento Surfer (talk) 18:47, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
In this case, if you are worried about the categories getting overwhelmed by entries at some point, I'd suggest diffusing them, though I wouldn't know what sub-categories to use (nor do I believe this will be an issue). If you are worried about the categories not being properly defined, feel free to define them further yourself by describing a kind of inclusion criteria and adding/removing entries based on those. ~Mable (chat) 20:14, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

I am not familiar with all the characters currently listed in Category:American superheroes, but I see some problems with characters I am familiar with:

  • Conan the Barbarian. The character lives in a prehistoric era, called the Hyborian Age. Most estimates place his activities c. 10,000 BC. He is from a country called Cimmeria, spends most of his life traveling across other countries and continents, and eventually rises to the throne of a country called Aquilonia. While various writers have depicted him following various occupations (at various points of his life), he is rarely portrayed as heroic. He is typically depicted as a mercenary, trained thief/burglar, pirate, bandit/raider, tribal chieftain, general, and eventually king of his own country. A few comic book stories have depicted him time traveling to other eras, including 20th-century New York City, but he is not an American citizen at all.
  • Hawkgirl. Several characters have used that codename. At least two of them are aliens from a planet called Thanagar. Not American citizens.
  • Hawkman. Several characters have used that codename. Four of them are aliens from a planet called Thanagar. Only one of the aliens, "Charley Parker"/Ch'al Andar, was actually raised on Earth.
  • He-Man. While various versions of the character have been used, his better known origin is that of an alien hero. He is Prince Adam of Eternia, heir to the throne of a planet and kingdom called Eternia. His father is King Randor, his mother is Queen Marlena, and his main enemy is Skeletor/Keldor (who according to some versions is his paternal uncle). He is usually just trying to defend his home planet from threats and rarely travels to other planets. His sole connection to Earth is that an episode of the 1980s animated series revealed that Queen Marlena was an astronaut from Earth who got stranded in Eternia decades ago. Her real name was supposedly Marlena Glenn, a former officer of NASA.
  • Hercules. The article points to the Roman demigod Hercules, a version of the Greek demigod Heracles. In Greco-Roman legend, Hercules/Heracles is an illegitimate son of the god Zeus, son of mortal woman Alcmene (a princess from the royal house of Perseides), and a stepson to Amphitryon (an exiled prince from the kingdom of Tiryns, who spend most of his life as a general of the kingdom of Thebes). His adventures are typically placed in Mycenaean Greece (1600-1100 BC) and he reportedly died by committing suicide by fire. I do not see a connection with the United States.
  • Joseph (comics). A clone of the villain/hero Magneto. His genetic template Magneto is (according to his current origin) a German Jew born in the 1920s, who migrated to Poland with his family in the 1930s, and lost his family in the Holocaust of the 1940s. Magneto may have claims to German and Polish citizenship, but holds neither. His post-war life as depicted in comics has him spending a few years in the Soviet Union and Israel, but otherwise renouncing his affiliation to any country and spending his life trying to create a country of his own. Joseph himself is a citizen of no country and spend some time in a South American orphanage.
  • Karma (comics). Her name is Xi'an Coy Manh, a Vietnamese mutant born in South Vietnam, and growing up during the Vietnam War. She lost her father in the Fall of Saigon (1975), her mother was raped and killed by pirates, and Xi'an herself fled as a refugee to the United States. While she spend much of her career in comics with American-based teams, it is unclear whether she ever gained an American citizenship.
  • Quicksilver (comics). His name is Pietro Maximoff. He is a European, from the fictional country of Transia, supposedly located in the Balkan Mountains. While Marvel has retconned his origin story multiple times, he is mostly depicted as having mixed Gypsy/Romani and Jewish ancestry. He was raised as a Gypsy. While he has spend time in the United States, he is not an American citizen. He was previously depicted as having further adventures in Transia, getting citizenship in the fictional kingdom of Attilan (by marrying a member of local royalty), and serving for a while as a government member in the fictional island country of Genosha.
  • She-Ra. Her real name is Princess Adora. Her origin is a bit of mess, but she is depicted as an alien heroine with connections to multiple planets and forces. Born as a Princess of the planet Eternia, she is the twin sister of He-Man/Prince Adam. She was abducted shortly after birth by an enemy galactic empire, called the Horde Empire, and mostly raised by a high-ranking officer called Hordak. The Horde invaded a planet called Etheria, Hordak was appointed the governor of the local occupation forces, and Adora grew up to become a captain in the local guard of the Horde. Her task was to eliminate the resistance forces of the local population. She eventually defected to the resistance and rose to become its main leader. She leads a war, trying to drive away the occupation forces and defeat Hordak and his superiors. Nothing to do with Earth.
  • Silver Surfer. His name is Norrin Radd. He is an alien hero from the planet Zenn-La. When his planet was about to be destroyed by Galactus, Norrin tried to bargain for the safety of his people. He promised to serve Galactus if Zenn-La is spared. Galactus agreed, transformed Norrin into a cosmic being with god-like powers, and had him serve as his herald. His mission was to find planet for his master to devour. He eventually rebelled and was punished. He has mostly served as a freelance hero and adventurer since, with most of his adventures taking place far away from Earth. He has never held American citizenship, and usually feels trapped when on Earth.
  • Sorceress of Castle Grayskull. An alien sorceress/goddess from the planet Eternia, she is the one who grants superhuman powers to He-Man and She-Ra. Originally a powerless villager from a war-ravaged village, she agreed to replace an aging sorceress as the guardian of the mystical Castle Grayskull. She gained god-like powers and a long life, but not true immortality. Her plans in the original 1980s cartoon was to eventually pass the mantle of the sorceress/goddess to her secret daughter, Teela. As far as I know, she is not human and has nothing to do with Earth.
  • Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew). While her origin story has been retconned a few times, I am not certain if she is American. In the original version of her origin story, she was the daughter of British scientist Jonathan Drew and his wife Merriam Drew. Jessica was born in London, but grew up in the fictional country of Transia, in the Balkans. Her father was the best friend and business partner of another British scientist, Herbert Wyndham, the High Evolutionary. During her childhood, Jessica almost died due to radiation poisoning, from exposure to an uranium mine owned by her father and Wyndham. Her mother was killed in an accident (or, in another version, killed by a werewolf), her father abandoned her, and Wyndham was left with custody of Jessica and trying to find a way to save Jessica's life. He placed her is some kind of suspended animation, experimented on her, and eventually cured her. She emerged from suspended animation decades later, chronologically in her 30s or early 40s, but with the body of a teenager, and the memories of a child. Her original series started taking place in the United Kingdom, but she eventually migrated to the United States in search of a new start. I am not certain if she did gain American citizenship.
  • Rachel Summers. Something of an odd case, due to dimension traveling. Born to American parents in Earth-811. She grew up in a dystopian version of North America, where the United States are long gone, and the continent is ruled by the Sentinels. She grew to become "Hound, an enslaved and mind-controlled mutant trained to hunt and capture other mutants. She eventually rebelled, traveled to Earth-616, and tried to settle with versions of her family from this dimension. She failed to make it in the United States, and migrated to the United Kingdom. Most of her 1980s and 1990s adventures take place in Great Britain. Uncertain if she holds citizenship in any state.
  • Vixen (comics). Her name is Mari Jiwe McCabe. She is an African, from the fictional country of Zambesi. She was orphaned at a young age, adopted by a local priest, then witnessed her adoptive father killed by one of his own brothers. She eventually migrated to the United States to work as a model, earned a fortune, then used the money to become a globe-trotting superheroine. Unclear if she holds American citizenship.
  • Wolverine (character). His name is James Howlett. He is a practically immortal Canadian citizen from Alberta, born in the 1880s. He served in the Canadian armed forces in both World War I and World War II. He later served as an agent of Department H, a division of the Department of National Defence (Canada) which deals with superhuman operatives and controls Alpha Flight. He defected from Department H to the X-Men in 1975, when the X-Men became a foreign-legion like organization where practically every member came from a different country. He has changed residences several times along with the X-Men, but never did become an American citizen.
  • Wonder Twins. Their names are Zan and Jayna. They are alien heroes (and shape-shifters) from the planet Exxor. They look human except for their pointed ears, with their design partly based on Spock and the Vulcans from Star Trek. They are not Americans at all, though a 1970s storyline had them attend an American high-school and posing as exchange students from Sweden.
  • Wonder Woman. Her name is Princess Diana of Themyscira. She is royalty and a diplomat from the fictional island country of Themyscira. While her origins have been retconned several times, she is usually only in the United States in order to explore the world outside her island, diplomatically represent her country, and/or face major threats to world safety. She does not hold American citizenship. Dimadick (talk) 17:33, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
...So, did you remove all of those? ~Mable (chat) 18:13, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Move discussion at the joker[edit]

This is a discussion that is of relevance to this project. here

Infobox abilities[edit]

Consensus was reached that superfluous powers not be added to the "Abilities" section of a character's infobox. Although many characters' infoboxes are still being edited with an excessive amount of abilities, for the most part there has been significant improvement and more consistency in terminology. However, the abilities listed are often unnecessarily superlative. In particular, the word "master" is being added as an adjective to modify fighting abilities, often by editors who are also adding an excessive number of other abilities to the infobox, completely ignorant to WikiProject Comics guidelines. I have been seeing phrases like "master swordsman" and "expert marksman". The issue here is the degree of experience implied with these adjectives, and also, it just reads incredibly poorly. I believe we should instead use "skilled" when mentioning fighting abilities. For example, Superhero X is a "skilled hand-to-hand combatant". I believe "expert" can be still be used for a particular skill set if the character is known to be an expert, just as "trained" is used for a character who is trained in a specific field of study (i.e., Pamela Isely is a trained botanist). When using "expert" before fighting ability, it unduly implies a level of expertise that is often unsourced. I believe "skilled" is more appropriate for fighting abilities and still implies that the character may be extremely versed in that fighting ability. What are other editors' opinions regarding this? DrRC (talk)

Isn't there a way to make the abilities parameter only accept certain terms? So for consistency you could make it so only expert or trained martial artist were acceptable and "master" would be ignored. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 19:51, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
I love that idea, but that would be a long list, and one that would need to be updated when new comics characters get an article. ~Mable (chat) 21:04, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
I like that idea, also, but I don't know enough about the abilities parameters to achieve that. DrRC (talk) 21:29, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
I think Wrath X is good at this at the Video Game infobox? Perhaps he knows how or someone who does. I'm sure it's something that can be done though. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 21:50, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
We may just end up with a bunch of broken infoboxes, because I don't think this fix will stop editors from adding items. I think adding hidden notes may be more effective. Argento Surfer (talk) 12:47, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
The problem with hidden notes is that firstly, you're going to have to add them to a LOT of infoboxes, and secondly, the editors adding all these superfluous abilities really do not give a shit about hidden notes if we're being honest. The only way I can personally see to fix the problem is to remove there being a way to create a problem in the first place. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 09:20, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
Maybe set it up like the genre section on the comic title infobox, where instead of a user inputing "crime", they have to input "|crime = y"? That could work, but it might be a headache determining which powers get infobox status. Some of them are pretty unique/hard to boil down. Argento Surfer (talk) 19:10, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
There's a lot of weird ones too when you move into X-Men territory. 19:55, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Sonic the Hedgehog comics' insanely huge Characters section[edit]

Please see here: Talk:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(comics)#The_insanely-enormous_Characters_section... --FrostedPenguin87 (talk) 03:10, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report[edit]

We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject Comics.

We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:

  • The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
  • The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
  • The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject Comics, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Guardians of the Galaxy characters[edit]

Category:Guardians of the Galaxy characters was recently created by User:Vsuarezp. I'm not sure what the consensus has been in the past on creating categories based on team characters, but I seem to remember we have deleted categories based on Avengers and X-Men characters. (talk) 17:04, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

I believe the Avengers category was removed because it was so large as to be almost useless. I'm inclined to suggest deleting the GotG category because there are two distinct teams using the name the category does not distinguish the two. It also seems very loosely defined. It includes random allies and villains of the two teams, but not all the members... Argento Surfer (talk) 12:44, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Comics based on unproduced film scripts?[edit]

Is there a list of comics based on unproduced film scripts? I mean like Doorways#Book or The Power of the Dark Crystal, and some other Jim Henson graphic novels by BOOM studios. I'm sure there are others. I would be happy to start List of comics based on unproduced film scripts if there seems to be enough things to be on the list. Staecker (talk) 00:28, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

I know Aether & Empire was a screenplay first. Dark Matter (comics) was originally conceived as a tv show, but I don't know if a screenplay was actually written. Populating a list might be difficult. Argento Surfer (talk) 12:37, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
And then you have things like The Star Wars, based on an unproduced early version of something that was eventually revised and produced, which might qualify for the list depending on how its defined. (Kevin Smith's The Bionic Man should definitely qualify.) But there's the question of notability of the topic - are there significant articles written about "comics that are based on unproduced screenplays"? --Nat Gertler (talk) 13:21, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
It seems to me (pure OR) that filmmakers and such are lately realizing that graphic novels have become a respectable way to salvage failed screen projects. Maybe List of comics based on unproduced film projects is a better name and scope, since there's no reason to require actual scripts. I was surprised actually that I couldn't find any articles written about the subject. But even absent such articles, the topic seems notable enough to me for a list on Wikipedia. IMHO not notable enough for a general article about the phenomenon. Staecker (talk) 14:16, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
I wouldn't oppose a list, but I think "based on unproduced film projects" leaves a lot of gray areas. Would there be some lower limit of what "unproduced" means? Would a screenplay need to have been written? Rights sold but not used? Argento Surfer (talk) 14:29, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure that there are lower notability standards for lists than for articles. Your also going to have a lot of things where the comic is not an abandoned screenplay, but rather a method of pitching the screenplay. Out here in greater Hollywoodland, you have services that will convert your screenplay into a comic for a fee; folks giving comic shops free piles of their books in hopes that the right money-man will discover them; and shops with a special wall for things-that-have-not-yet-been-optioned. --Nat Gertler (talk) 14:37, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
"shops with a special wall for things-that-have-not-yet-been-optioned." No joke? Can you share the name of some? I'd like to research this - not because I have a screenplay, just personal interest. Argento Surfer (talk) 14:54, 25 May 2017 (UTC)