Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dungeons & Dragons/Archive 27

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Archive 26 Archive 27 Archive 28

Scott Rouse, D&D Brand Manager

Couldn't even find an article about him, so stuck a little bit in the GSL article. Scott Rouse has left WotC today after 9 1/2 years. After Linae Foster, he was the only one for the past year working on the GSL. Not sure what info can be made of it, but there it is for what it is worth. Probably just another victim in the normal line of Hasbro/WotC Christmas lay-offs.

shadzar-talk 23:45, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Could someone take a look at this for me?

In the case of XDM: X-Treme Dungeon Mastery, we have an author (Tracy Hickman) apparently writing a Wikipedia article about their own book. Yeesh. While the last thing I want to do is upset Mr. Hickman, we all know it's a CoI problem to do that sort of thing. (The same editor also has several edits to the article about and numerous subjects related to himself.) Could you help me figure out a nice way to deal with the article and editor that doesn't involve deletion or stern warnings or any of that sort of thing? :) BOZ (talk) 11:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

A gentle push towards this page and a promise that you will watch the talk page (allowing you to implement changes on his behalf) would perhaps be the most diplomatic solution. If he's not already aware, an explanation of reliable sources and original research would be useful- I've found in the past that article subjects often struggle with those two points. J Milburn (talk) 12:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Gentle enough? Well, they've been editing on Wikipedia for the best part of three years, so they should know the score by now even if isn't transparently obvious enough that WP is not a store front. I'm certainly not keen to go out of my way to trawl for 3rd party references and reword lengthy articles in as constructive a manner as possible (a very time-consuming matter, of course) if an author isn't willing to take some positive action on that score themselves when that relates to their own bio and creative work. Block deletions are much quicker to carry out when those excise superfluous content from an otherwise acceptable stub article. :) Harami2000 (talk) 14:25, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
If that's the real guy, we should be really nice to him. He can post out of universe on his website, and it's reliable per WP:SPS. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 15:42, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
We're equally nice to everyone, no? :) This /particular/ book isn't self-published and is a commerical venture, and the article does read rather more as an advertising blurb for lack of those requested secondary sources which are part of WP's wider, fundamental NPOV remit -- all of which is doubly-important when there's a conflict of interest involved, of course. Harami2000 (talk) 16:01, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
"Advert" template added for lack of response thus far. Harami2000 (talk) 20:53, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Could someone cite some 3rd Ed. D&D books for me?

Hi. I've been putting in a bit of work on the article on Carl Critchlow, who apparently did some work for a variety of 3rd Edition D&D books. Someone else added the details, but they are corrently uncited, and I've only been able to verify and cite the Monster Manual myself. Other titles he is listed as having provided internal art for are Monsters of Faerûn, Magic of Faerûn , Lords of Darkness, Tome of Magic, and Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss. I was wondering if someone with access to any of these books could check if he is listed in the credits and add a cite to the appropriate title? Shouldn't be too muc work and would improve that section of the article somewhat. Thanks in advance for any help. LSmok3 Talk 14:50, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Just checked Lords of Darkness, Tome of Magic, Magic of Faerun, Fiendish Codex I, and yes, he is listed as an Interior Artist for all of them. I unfortunately do not have a copy of Monsters of Faerun so can not check on that one. Hooper (talk) 15:07, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, seeing as you have the books (all but one), and have been able to verify he is in them, do you think you might be able to add book cites to the page for me? If you're willing, the first one (MM) is already cited, so the quickest way is to just copy the cite code from that and change the title and ISBN. . . LSmok3 Talk 17:20, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I'd be willing to do this if no one beats me to it, but I don't have time ATM. As far as the page numbers, that depends on whether his name is mentioned on the page or if he signed the illios but I'm sure his name will be mentioned in the credits page. I took a quick look through Monsters of Faerun since it's a small book, and I can tell you that he did the Beasts of Malar on p 21, the Darkenbeast on p 31, the Ghour on p 33, the Groundling and Gulguthydra on p 58, the Nishruu on p 67, the Quaggoth on p 75, the Spectral Panther on p 79, the Subterranean Spiders on p 80, the Beast of Xvim on p 86. BOZ (talk) 03:12, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Well, that would be great if someone could have a go when they have time. As far as the page nos. go, I usually don't bother as it is often very hard to establish a citable ref for exact pages, but do it if you want. . . Thanks.LSmok3 Talk 09:04, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Icewind Dale II - up for review!

Check it out! BOZ (talk) 14:59, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

For readers who may be unfamiliar with D&D, you might want to mention in the lead that FR is a high fantasy setting. Thanks.—RJH (talk) 17:29, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Different Worlds

Hey check it out, someone started an article for Different Worlds - now all the significant gaming magazines I'm aware of all have their own articles. :) BOZ (talk) 04:06, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Is Kobold Quarterly considered significant?[1] Just curious.—RJH (talk) 22:25, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
I guess that's a matter of opinion. :) Feel free to start it up! How long has it been around - 3rd edition era? It's probably worthy of an article, but don't know how much can be written about it yet. BOZ (talk) 23:36, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Looks like they had a mention in Wired so possibly they qualify. They are apparently up to issue 11 and they certainly get loads of ghits.—RJH (talk) 20:30, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
That works for me! Feel free to start it up. :) BOZ (talk) 02:06, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Probably the same thing.[2] - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 06:55, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Paul Jaquays DYK front page hook

Almost there with regards to getting that front-page DYK for the project but slight stumbling block on the nomination - - in that the DYK validator doesn't "see anything about role-playing there" (point 1) when every reference is RPG related. Expert input on that specific point to confirm that there is would be appreciated! Thanks, David. Harami2000 (talk) 16:58, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Cool. OK to go now, thanks, so long as there's a DYK slot in sufficient time. :) Harami2000 (talk) 23:12, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Neverwinter Nights 2 - Good Topic!

Neverwinter Nights 2 is now a Good Topic! :) BOZ (talk) 19:54, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Check this out: Wikipedia:Books/Neverwinter Nights. BOZ (talk) 20:08, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations! Hekerui (talk) 20:40, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

It's TFA request time!

It's time to work on getting Planescape: Torment up on the request page! I can see it being 2 points for the 10th anniversary in 12/12, although any recent video game articles on TFA will drag it down in a hurry. Still, no reason not to try. :) I'll work on writing the blurb, and the rest of you keep an eye on the request page to see if/when it goes back down to four so we can add it. Woohoo! BOZ (talk) 21:29, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Anyone feel like writing some alt text for the three images in this article before someone complains? :) BOZ (talk) 02:08, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

The request is on the page! Wish me luck. BOZ (talk) 20:53, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Today's featured article/December 12, 2009. :) BOZ (talk) 19:46, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Saw it: nice one, thanks! ;) Harami2000 (talk) 23:06, 12 December 2009 (UTC)


ip [3] is making a number of changes in D&D pages. One of those changes [4] do not agree with my source. WP:AGF you may want to check on its edits.--LexCorp (talk) 01:13, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Per the 4E MM (which I assume is the source in question), you're looking at "humans and lycanthropes" on p233; I don't see elves mentioned at all on that page. It's possible that they are using a 3E or other source though, so it's not outside the bounds of AGF to ask for the source they are using. (talk) 02:58, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Atari sued of D&D licensing agreement

Link. Sorry; I don't have time to actually integrate it with any articles. Thought it could be useful if anyone has the time to add it in. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 17:29, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


As a suggestion, it would be good to establish the notability of the RPGnet article. I think that would allow us to legitimately use their reviews and other (non-forum) publications as references without worrying about AfD. (An example I ran across is this review of The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh.) I'm finding a few book references to on Google, but most of them are inaccessible. Thanks. :-) —RJH (talk) 20:07, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Okay I think I've added enough cites to establish notability.—RJH (talk) 20:53, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement

This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:14, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Locus Magazine

The web-based Locus Magazine web site contains a boat load of invaluable information about published works of fiction, including D&D novels. For example, if I want a source to confirm the 1995-6 D&D novels by author Simon Hawke, from the main page I can select:

  1. Resources; Index to Science Fiction
  2. The Locus Index to Science Fiction: 1984-1998
  3. Books; By author

to get a full list:

  • Birthright: The Iron Throne
  • Birthright: War
  • Dark Sun: The Broken Blade
  • Dark Sun: The Nomad
  • Dark Sun: The Outcast
  • Dark Sun: The Seeker

This matches what is listed on the Simon Hawke article for D&D novels. I think this could be useful for citing an author's bibliography.

Here's a sample citation for quick reference:

<ref>{{cite web
 | author=Brown, Charles N.; Contento, William G.
 | date=January 2, 2010 | title=Site Directory
 | work=The Locus Index to Science Fiction
 | publisher=[[Locus (magazine)|Lotus Publications]]
 | url=
 | accessdate=2010-01-25 }} Note: confirm individual authors by a search from the Lotus home page.</ref></nowiki>

Thanks.—RJH (talk) 18:14, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I noticed that you added John Gregory Betancourt on the Dungeons & Dragons (novels) page. I did some digging and found that he wrote the novel The Hag's Contract for the Birthright setting, as well as a few short stories in the 80s that were printed in Dragon mag. I'll add his article to the project's watchlist, but you might want to see if you can find a spot to add something about this to his bio article? BOZ (talk) 20:29, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
LOL - I didn't look hard enough to see that "The Hag's Contract" was already on the page... good job on getting a cite though. BOZ (talk) 23:22, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pterran

So you know. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:07, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Is there a place to request articles?

I am posting this as there is no information on "dungeons" as described in D&D or other RPGs other than a brief blurb on Dungeon (disambiguation) (that I created sometime ago) as far as I can tell. It makes this difficult to write an RPG article talking about gameplay and for RPGs for people who don't know what a dungeon is in an RPG. There's nothing to link to. Even Role-playing game terms doesn't have anything.Jinnai 08:20, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Well there is always: Wikipedia:Requested articles/Culture and fine arts#Role-playing games.—RJH (talk) 18:45, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
Red links are another option. -- 23:39, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

DnD unrefed BLPs

Do we have a list of them? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 19:43, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

PF; I don't think there's a specific list, but I could look and see what we've got. Do you need unreferenced only, or would poorly referenced do? BOZ (talk) 04:36, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

White Dwarf reviews

Hey there! :) I have been busy for a couple of months or so, which has taken my attention away from this project, but I am coming back to it now, and I have some ideas on what I want to do here. First of all, I was busy from July through early December (more busy as I went along) adding Dragon magazine reviews to video game articles (and starting not a small number of articles in the process), so that kept me away. I've also been busy (well, not too busy) adding stub articles for G.I. Joe characters, another old hobby of mine as a kid. :) And of course, I've also been involved in working on comic articles as well, as I always have been.

Well, I'm back! Although, I've never truly been away... another little project of mine has been to go through this ridiculous list when I have some free time and see what actually belongs as part of our project - most don't, but I have found, and in some cases restored, several articles that I probably wouldn't have found any other way. I have also started stubs on several game designers and artists. And I've been preparing for a massive plan that I'm going to set in motion probably early next year some time.

So, if I'm back, what am I doing then? Well, the subject line should give that away, as should a viewing of my most recent contributions. One thing I was doing a few months ago, as I'm sure you haven't forgotten, is working on getting D&D articles to GA+ status. I didn't really want to back off on that or let the wikiproject lose momentum, but I also didn't want to burn out! However, it's now time to get back in gear. A big part of article improvement in general is the reception section, so that's where White Dwarf comes in. I have access to a collection that runs from the first issue through #90 and several after that, so I'd say that more than covers the period of time when the magazine was focusing on D&D and other games. I have already done this with the couple dozen or so issues I have of The Space Gamer, but I am now adding details of each review I find (when it hasn't already been done) as I go through the issues one by one.

Here is an index of what is done so far:

Enjoy, and feel free to help out if you can! :) BOZ (talk) 20:28, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Ah, welcome back :) - will take a look later. The online periodical Kobold seems to have some out-of-universe retrospective stuff IIRC from time to time too.Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:37, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
That's pretty damn sweet. Good job! Fantasy basketball has become my latest internet addiction, kinda putting WP on the back burner, but I mean to attack one of the modules I've been working on relatively soon. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 18:16, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Hey that's fine - like I say, you gotta switch it up sometimes to keep from burning out.  :) I think Desert of Desolation is finally starting to shape up into something semi-reasonable that might one day be B-class or better. BOZ (talk) 20:18, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Still working on these, if you haven't been watching my progress - got a lot done, and relatively little left to go! :) BOZ (talk) 18:35, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I've been watching. You're some kind of DnD referencing robot sent from the future to save us all, I think. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 18:39, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Hah, I wish!  ;) I'm just working with what I've got. BOZ (talk) 17:54, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I've hit the point where I don't have every single issue in a row (post-issue 90). Of course, that means I can only continue with the ones which I actually have a copy of, so therefore I'll be missing a few here and there (hopefully not too many key reviews!) BOZ (talk) 18:02, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

And, actually, with #93 that's it! WD #94 declares that Open Box is no more; I am not sure if there was a review column to replace it which dealt with any product by TSR, but given the shift happenning with WD at that time I kind of doubt it. So, I'm only missing 91 and 92, so it really doesn't look like we're missing much. :) I suppose I'll do those two one day if I ever get my hands on a copy. Meanwhile, all done!  :) BOZ (talk) 00:23, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

My collection only goes up to 100 or so. We've moved house and crap is everyhwere packed. Also, my kids got bored of 4e :((( I think the combat was too involved. Maybe give it a go in a while. Must read up on the kobolds too...Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:34, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Wikipe-tan soceress

Wikipe-tan sorceress color.svg

I had a magic-user version made for use with WP:DQ since there was nothing based for rpgs. I thought the D&D page might want to use it on their page somewhere.Jinnai 22:43, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Hey, thanks! :) I might just put her on my userpage if you don't mind, if nothing else. :) BOZ (talk) 00:11, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
It could perhaps be used somewhere on the Anime page, since some parts of that article are rather sparse on illustrations.—RJH (talk) 18:43, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
I've put it on my talk page. Can you make a fighter one too? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 07:27, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Wow, that image is pretty cool. There must be a place we can use it. Nutiketaiel (talk) 14:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Peer reviews

Hey there. :) If you have a little time to help out, take a look at a couple of articles on which I requested a peer review, as they make their slow crawl to GA status: Wikipedia:Peer review/Desert of Desolation/archive1 and Wikipedia:Peer review/Descent into the Depths of the Earth/archive1. I've been pretty busy lately and may have some time starting next week, but feel free to have a look in the meantime. :) BOZ (talk) 12:26, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

There's also one at Wikipedia:Portal peer review/Speculative fiction/archive1 for anyone who wishes to participate. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:17, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Unearthed Arcana

We have a new GA, thank you very much.  ;) It's been a while! BOZ (talk) 19:18, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced living people articles bot

User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects provides a list, updated daily, of unreferenced living people articles (BLPs) related to your project. There has been a lot of discussion recently about deleting these unreferenced articles, so it is important that these articles are referenced.

The unreferenced articles related to your project can be found at >>>Wikipedia:WikiProject Dungeons & Dragons/Archive 27/Unreferenced BLPs<<<

If you do not want this wikiproject to participate, please add your project name to this list.

Thank you. Okip 01:03, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Ah... was this a bot message? Could you tell us what category we should be looking at? I'm not seeing one for Dungeons and Dragons. Also the "/Unreferenced BLPs" link is a red link, so that doesn't seem to help.—RJH (talk) 15:18, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps this bot will create a list in the future? Hekerui (talk) 15:22, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
We need to get rid of all the unsourced BLP bios - every single one of them! I've been doing my fair share with Rich Baker, Jolly Blackburn, Monte Cook and Sue Cook, J. Robert King, Todd Lockwood, Mel Odom, and rk post. ;) They're far from perfect and could use more sources, but at least they are safe from the Great Unsourced BLP Purge of 2010! (talk) 00:26, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
I was amazed that even Brom had no sources - so I got rid of that unsourced BLP as well. (talk) 12:20, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
Sorry for the confusion, I linked to where this daily updated bot page is now at. Nice job anon sourcing those articles. I hope this bot helps your project. Okip 01:05, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm still going, slowly but surely! Got James Wyatt and Robin Laws recently. (talk) 12:33, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Update: Wikipedia:WikiProject Dungeons & Dragons/Archive 27/Unreferenced BLPs has been created. This list, which is updated by User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects daily, will allow your wikiproject to quickly identify unreferenced living person articles.
There maybe no or few articles on this new Unreferenced BLPs page. To increase the overall number of articles in your project with another bot, you can sign up for User:Xenobot_Mk_V#Instructions.
If you have any questions or concerns, visit User talk:DASHBot/Wikiprojects. Okip 01:05, 28 March 2010 (UTC)


Hey, did anyone else hear about this? A new thing on facebook is that people can essentially create fan pages using Wikipedia articles as the basis. For example, I saw pages for Elminster and Drizzt earlier, and I bet there are (and will be) more. BOZ (talk) 04:43, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. There's lots of news articles on this move by facebook. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 05:06, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Articles for deletion - blink dog and bulette

For those not aware, blink dog and bulette are currently being debated at AFD. Anything you can do to improve either of these articles would be appreciated! BOZ (talk) 05:00, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Did you see File:Bulette original plastic toy.jpg? It should be under NFCC, but it's a cool image if it really is the toy. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 05:15, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I think I've taken bulette and blink dog as far as I can without a lot more research into secondary sources. As the articles srtand, I believe the average reader will have a good idea of how they were developed, andf the various characteristics that were gained (and lost) from edition to edition. I added a photo of the 4E bulette to the article as well, but frankly that mini is a bit of a disappointment compared to the 3.5 mini. As soon as I can borrow one of those bad boys, I'll add an image to the article.
I'll be a bit busy for the next week or so, but after that if anyone has suggestions about another D&D page that needs similar work, I'll take a look at it. Guinness323 (talk) 03:49, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
I love those images, but they aren't allowed on commons per their rules. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 04:38, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Re-read "Commons: Derivative works". Yep, life sucks. Removed images. Kills me about removing the image of the original plastic "dinosaur"--the company that produced it probably went out of business before Gygax even bought the bag of toys... Guinness323 (talk) 14:12, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
I think you can include the plastic dinosaur within our WP:NFCC rules. By the way, how do you know it's the correct toy? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 14:25, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
At one of the early Gencons (1975-ish), Gygax used little plastic dinosaurs for some of his monsters, and we all realized that we had the same "monsters" in the bottom of a sock drawer or toy chest that we had bought as kids--they were pretty common to every 5 & 10 store for a while. They were pretty easy to remember too, this was the days before every kids knew what an ankylosaurus or deinonychus looked like, and these didn't look like any kind of identifiable dino--they were just the product of someone's imagination in a Japanese toy factory. Hence the owl bear and rust monster. However, I haven't been able to find a reliable secondary source confirming the image, so likely it should be removed for that reason alone. OR I should write a book about D&D back in the 70s, and then I could use the book as a secondary source. :) Guinness323 (talk) 15:16, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
Heh - I've often wondered how long it would take before people would try to get things published in an RS just to have them available for Wikipedia citations.  ;) (talk) 17:20, 7 May 2010 (UTC)