Wikipedia talk:WikiProject EastEnders

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WikiProject EastEnders (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is part of WikiProject EastEnders, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the popular BBC soap opera EastEnders on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
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Years of marriage in infoboxes[edit]

Hi all. I've just started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Soap Operas#In-universe dates in infoboxes, and I'd appreciate any input. –anemoneprojectors– 15:03, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Copyright Violation Detection - EranBot Project[edit]

A new copy-paste detection bot is now in general use on English Wikipedia. Come check it out at the EranBot reporting page. This bot utilizes the Turnitin software (ithenticate), unlike User:CorenSearchBot that relies on a web search API from Yahoo. It checks individual edits rather than just new articles. Please take 15 seconds to visit the EranBot reporting page and check a few of the flagged concerns. Comments welcome regarding potential improvements. These likely copyright violations can be searched by WikiProject categories. Use "control-f" to jump to your area of interest (if such a copyvio is present).--Lucas559 (talk) 15:55, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Order of surnames in lead[edit]

Hi all. The article Jean Slater has got me thinking - I've always been in favour of the name Slater being the first name in the article and then Walters the "also" name in brackets, because Jean has been called Slater for over 10 years and only Walters for less than a single episode, so to put "Jean Walters (also Slater)" seems unbalanced. So I think it would be a good idea to use the WP:COMMONNAME (i.e. the article title) as the first name in the lead, and then other names (including the "current" name if it's not the "common" name) in brackets. For example:

  • Patricia Louise "Pat" Butcher (also Wicks and Evans)
  • Katherine "Kathy" Beale (also Mitchell and Sullivan)
  • Sharon Anne Watts (also Mitchell and Rickman)
  • Dorothy "Dot" Cotton (also Branning)
  • Kathleen "Kat" Slater (also Moon)
  • Stacey Slater (also Branning and Fowler)
  • Kim Fox (also Fox-Hubbard)
  • etc

Any thoughts on this? –anemoneprojectors– 09:40, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

I also think we should remove middle names and just have:
  • Pat Butcher (also Wicks and Evans)
  • Kathy Beale (also Mitchell and Sullivan)
  • Sharon Watts (also Mitchell and Rickman)
  • Dot Cotton (also Branning)
  • Kat Slater (also Moon)
  • Stacey Slater (also Branning and Fowler)
  • Kim Fox (also Fox-Hubbard)
There wasa major discussion about this somewhere (that would have affected all fictional characters) but the whole thing was archived before being resolved, so nothing ever happened. anemoneprojectors 09:36, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
I'd support the removal of middle names for sure, but maybe keep the Dorothy "Dot" Cotton ones. Some fictional characters have been known by both the full and shortened names. I think that discussion was at the infobox talk page. May be we should restart it to get a consensus? - JuneGloom07 Talk 12:56, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
I can live with Dorothy and Patricia, etc. I found the discussions (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Soap Operas/Archive 11#Middle names, maiden names, married names, birth names, etc... for the original, Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 126#RfC: In-universe name details of fictional characters, in article leads for the RFC). Although the originaltor of the discussion was indef blocked, I think he had a point about middle names. (The other thing I seem to have wanted to be removed was marriage/stepfamily years in the infobox, which I'd still be happy to see go.) anemoneprojectors 15:54, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
Ah, well done. I wouldn't mind losing the years for stepfamiles, but I think marriage years might be more tricky. - JuneGloom07 Talk 16:46, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Characters needing independent articles[edit]

My opinion is that the following current characters should have independent articles, or at least drafts started so that they can become independent articles in the future:

I may have missed or forgotten some. I also think that Buster Briggs, Louise Mitchell and Carmel Kazemi could be worked on but may not be ready yet, though we would see what sources can be found. I already have drafts for Gavin and Paul in my userspace, but they still require some work to be completed (even though Gavin's looks good, it's actually nowhere near ready and I want it ready before it is moved), and I've started one for Buster but not done any work on it. Is anyone a) already working on these or b) willing to work on or collaborate on them? If so, I suggest creating drafts in the draftspace, such as Draft:Les Coker and working on them there, starting with the information that already exists in the list entries and then expanding and improving them before having them moved to mainspace. What I don't want to see is a cut and paste from a list to a new article without any work being done and without any attribution being taken into consideration (as has recently happened with Lee Carter). AnemoneProjectors 15:58, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

I've added links to existing drafts - please add yours if you started any
What about Yvonne Cotton and Aleks Shirvos? Yes they've departed but they did have notable storylines?188.28.23.44 (talk) 12:40, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
I'd be happy for departed characters to be worked on to see if they are worthy of separate articles. For example, I also have drafts for Joey Branning, Kirsty Branning and Ayesha Rana. anemoneprojectors 17:53, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
Hi,
I was wondering if I could maybe do Louise Mitchell and probably Bex Fowler if it's OK with you? And if it is OK for me to do Bex, would I go by Rebecca Fowler or Bex Fowler? Personally, I would go by Rebecca.
Thanks,
Grangehilllover (talk) 17:19, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
No problem. Add links here when you start so others can help out if they want. I would go with Rebecca for the title for now, as the list entry uses that name and it's the location of the main redirect. I've added her to the above list. anemoneprojectors 07:14, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
Hi,
I've started the drafts and added the links.
Thanks,
Grangehilllover (talk) 08:54, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. Don't forget to leave an edit summary saying you've copied text from another page (assuming that's what you did and didn't start from scratch), a bit like my first edit summary here because attribution is essential on Wikipedia. anemoneprojectors 10:10, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

An IP (188.30.109.24) added Tracey, Yvonne Cotton and Sylvie Carter to the list but I removed them as a bot signed them making it look like either the IP had made my comment or I had listed those three. I'm not convinced any of them need an article or could ever get one beyond what they already have in the list entries, with the possible exception of Yvonne if there are more sources to find. Does anyone have any further thoughts? anemoneprojectors 12:36, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

I think there has always been potential in a Tracey article, it is just finding the right real world information. Soaper1234 (talk) 15:18, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
Oh actually Tracey has more information in her list entry than I thought. If there was any more, I might support a separate article. But I don't think that would need working on in a draft. anemoneprojectors 21:35, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm adding to the list:

I would say that Keegan and Fi could become articles very soon. — anemoneprojectors 12:41, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Separate Articles[edit]

Sort of a follow on from above, I just need to get up to scratch as I have not been here for a few years! What do we not trust as a source? I clearly remember The Sun but not any others. I am currently working on a draft for Pam Coker as there is a lot of potential with her blackmailing and Les's cross dressing. Hope everyone is all good! Bluebolt94 14:24, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Generally the only sources I try to avoid are stuff like UnrealityTV which is technically a blog, but still appears in Google News. Would you like to add your draft to the list above? :-) anemoneprojectors 15:18, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
I will add my draft up there, no worries! Bluebolt94 21:03, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Portal:EastEnders[edit]

I've just remembered that we have a portal! But it's severely out of date. I used to update the news section many years ago but my last update was June 2011 (someone added Nick's death in 2015) and I don't really have the time to do it now. Although the portal page gets on average only 9 views a day, I think it would still be nice if it was up to date. In fact, I just updated the Did You Know section. So it's just the news one that needs regular updates. The kind of things I used to add were announcements of character arrivals, returns and departures, award nominations and wins, spin-off and documentary announcements, cast member deaths and cast member reality TV appearances. So my question is, is anyone interested in maintaining the news section? anemoneprojectors 18:44, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

I can certainly give it a go! I'm not on that often but I can keep an eye on it when I am :-) Bluebolt94 20:57, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
I think if we all collaborate together and add news as and when we spot it, it might be good! Soaper1234 (talk) 21:13, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
Thanks you two. I agree, to collaborate on it would be good. I guess if we were to start today, the latest news is the death of Andrew Sachs, as he played Cyril Bishop. Also, do we need to update any of the other parts? Maybe pick new articles for selected article and selected biography? Does the top section need updating? Also I think the DYK section should just be kept to official EastEnders DYKs, whereas before we picked random facts and updated it weekly. anemoneprojectors 10:41, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
I keep forgetting, but I think I've kept it up to date so far... it should really be updated on the day it happens. I just realised Glenda and Danny's unannounced returns should also be there... anemoneprojectors 16:49, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
Well this didn't last long! anemoneprojectors 09:16, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages[edit]

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Greetings WikiProject EastEnders Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, SteviethemanDelivered: 17:58, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

WP:DATERANGE[edit]

This part of the MOS was updated in July with a change from a preference for two digits, to a preference for four digits, on the right side of year–year ranges. I've already applied this to year ranges in storyline sections, but should we also apply it to tables and infoboxes? Having read the reasons for this change, I think we should apply it everywhere, but will space be an issue? Let's see...

Character Actor(s) Duration
Sam Mitchell Danniella Westbrook 1990–1993, 1995–1996, 1999–2000, 2002–2005, 2009–2010, 2016
Kim Medcalf

That doesn't take up much more space than it did before, so that's ok. How about an infobox? I'll mock one up with parts of several different infoboxes using year ranges in different places (taken from Bianca Jackson (husband), Bobby Beale (EastEnders) (portrayer), Lucy Beale (portrayer and stepmother), Sam Mitchell (EastEnders) (duration), Ian Beale (wife), Zainab Masood (spinoffs)):

Bianca Jackson
EastEnders character
Portrayed by Kevin Curran (2003–2007)
Alex Francis (2007–2012)
Rory Stroud (2013–2014)
Eliot Carrington (2014–)
Eva Brittin-Snell (1993–1996)
Casey Anne Rothery
(1996–2004)
Melissa Suffield (2004–2010)
Hetti Bywater (2012–2015)
Duration 1990–1993, 1995–1996, 1999–2000, 2002–2005, 2009–2010, 2016
Spin-off
appearances
EastEnders: E20 (2010–11)
"East Street" (2010)

These are the sections of the infobox with ranges. The only ones wrapping over to a second line are Casey Anne Rothery's duration, which hasn't changed anyway, and Bianca's second marriage to Ricky, which isn't on a second line in her infobox currently, but is that such a problem? Sam's duration is already on three lines so makes no difference. It would also happen with Ian's second marriage to Jane if it ended at any point... but I would say these situations are rare enough for us to not worry. Unless anyone can think of anywhere it might cause problems? I don't especially like it when a duration for a marriage or something like that (even a year for an introducer) goes onto a second line, but it's happened already in places so I'd just have to accept it might happen a bit more now, unless we {{nowrap}} more things. anemoneprojectors 10:19, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

I understand the possible problem with going onto a new line, but because it cannot be helped, I suppose we should start adding four digit years to everywhere. I think {{nowrap}} will make things a bit messy, so should add four digits and leave as that. Soaper1234 (talk) 10:56, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
It'll be so easy to do with AWB so don't worry about working on it. I would just be able to do it at the press of a button. We use nowrap for durations so that this doesn't happen:
1990–1993, 1995–1996, 1999–
2000, 2002–2005, 2009–2010,
2016
for example! And it's used for Ian Beale's wives too. But for now let's not consider that and just using the two dates. I think it's fine to just go ahaed. So go ahead and revert my revert of your edit to the character list, and I'll work on the rest :-) anemoneprojectors 12:12, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
Too late, I already got that far :-) anemoneprojectors 13:57, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Biographies of living persons[edit]

Because of the reports over Danny Dyer's break from the show this year, which were mentioned in the Mick Carter article, I've realised we need to tag pretty much all our character pages with a BLP notice. Actors' personal lives often affect suspensions or breaks, and even saying that an actor has been "axed" could be considered contentious if poorly sourced, so it would need to apply across the board, even if these things don't apply to a particular actor, because the policy still applies as the article relates to living people. We could go with {{BLP}} or {{BLP others}}, which says that the BLP policy does not apply directly to the subject of the article but may apply to individuals involved, though I think the latter is more for articles about deceased individuals, rather than articles that aren't about people. I guess it wouldn't apply to articles about characters whose actors have died. anemoneprojectors 11:17, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

So if I add the template to a character page whose actor is dead, please remove it! anemoneprojectors 11:34, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report[edit]

We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject EastEnders/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject EastEnders.

We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:

  • The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
  • The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
  • The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject EastEnders, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Promotional images[edit]

Is there a reason why some characters have promotional images and others have screenshots? I am aware that for earlier characters, promotional images may not be obtainable but for the newer characters, they are. I have already changed Tiffany Butcher and Alfie Moon's articles to include their BBC cast shot as the screenshots featured before were either not a true reflection on the character or poor, however I wanted to discuss the matter before updating all articles. My proposal is that all characters, with a Wikipedia article and a BBC character profile, should have their main image updated to be the promotional shot featured on the character page. In addition to this, characters with no BBC profile but have promotional images published online should also have this rule applied to them. Soaper1234 - talk 09:40, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

@AnemoneProjectors, Kelvin 101, Grangehilllover, and HappyMan97: Pinging some regular editors to see their views. Soaper1234 - talk 11:27, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Where possible I think we should use promotional images, but I would prefer the ones on set like File:Paul Coker (EastEnders).jpg, not the white background ones like File:Stacey Slater (2014).jpg or File:Sonia fowler22.jpg - my preference anyway, I just don't like those ones. Try to get photos that credit the photographer - if you check the metadata for the Paul Coker photo, it says "© BBC/Kieron McCarron". And make sure the rationale is similar to the one I wrote there as well. — anemoneprojectors 12:07, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
I've started a checklist-style in my sandbox which I am hoping to complete all. I agree about external promotional images over photoshoot promotional images. I shall try to credit the photographer and start uploading shortly. Soaper1234 - talk 12:58, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
I do prefer ones like on Tiffany Butcher's too. Grangehilllover (talk) 14:46, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
I have uploaded the first of many (see File:Masood Ahmed.jpg), but used information used in the Tiffany image as I found this more detailed. I could not find any Masood original photographer information so could not cite the original photographer. Soaper1234 - talk 15:09, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
@Soaper1234: If you don't mind, I'm going to try a couple and I'll tell you which ones I've done? Grangehilllover (talk) 17:22, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
The Tiffany rationale is good but the bit about "any other free image of the actor would not represent the character in terms of the setting, costume, etc" is missing - I thought that was good to strengthen the rationale. If the image has been cropped, "Portion" should state this. If it has been reduced, "Low_resolution" should say it has been reduced from the original. The template should be {{non-free promotional}} and if you could add the category Category:EastEnders images to any new uploads as well that would be great. — anemoneprojectors 17:47, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
Orginally I think a lot of the screenshots were added before the promos were widely circulated. Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:23, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
@Soaper1234: The Masood image photographer is Jack Barnes see metadata http://eastenders.wikia.com/wiki/File:Masood_Ahmed.jpg Thanks Kelvin 101 (talk) 21:23, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
Thanks AnemoneProjectors. I shall use that for all future images. @Grangehilllover: Sorry if you felt I was stepping on your toes by uploading new images over those you uploaded. I just felt they were too stretched. Thank you Kelvin 101. Soaper1234 - talk 13:48, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
@Soaper1234: It's fine. Grangehilllover (talk) 13:53, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
@Grangehilllover: I reverted Pete Beale, Lucy Beale and Arthur Fowler because again they were stretched - it looks like you tried to resize the images smaller but didn't maintain the aspect ratio. I do it in MS Paint - it's really simple. — anemoneprojectors 15:48, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
The other thing is that the image source should be a page the image is found on, not a direct link to the image url. — anemoneprojectors 16:03, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
Lastly (I hope!) the template should actually say {{non-free promotional|1=http://www.bbc.co.uk/terms|image_has_rationale=yes}}! Sorry to be a pain ;-) — anemoneprojectors 16:15, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
It wasn't lastly! If the actor has died, please add "|image_is_of_living_person=no"! Thanksssss — anemoneprojectors 16:17, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
Hi all, (and big hi to AP - we go way back on this wiki project). I uploaded loads of screenshots back in the day (something like mid 2000s). At the time on wikipedia, and in particular this wiki project, we were getting a lot of grief about using promo images. We were told that the use of screenshots were permissible (in moderation) and not promos or cast cards, and so we used these (painstakingly capturing images from the programmes) as it got the deletionists off our backs and meant we could still illustrate the articles. I see now that the rules regarding promo images have either changed, and I am glad because these promos look much better and I would support their use over screenshots any day. Nice to see all that hard work we put in still here and improved on, AP! GunGagdinMoan 00:10, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
Yay! Hi Gungadin! — anemoneprojectors 14:10, 26 October 2017 (UTC)