Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football

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WikiProject Football (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Egy Maulana[edit]

Could do with a bit of advice on this one. The page has previously been deleted via AfD. However, there is now an international appearance, referenced by Soccerway, and the prose states this was against Brunei (the game happened since the last deletion). This is backed up by Sky Sports. It's a bit odd though; the Soccerway profile shows 14 minutes played of a senior game. However, the Brunei game is not shown on his profile. If you look at the Brunei game, it shows it as an under-23 fixture. He was an unused sub for the only senior game it lists on his profile (against Guyana). FIFA does not list the Brunei game on it's senior results page. NFT does not have an entry for him, although I'm not sure how accurate that page is. The PSSI website suggests this was part of the 2017 Aceh World Solidarity Tsunami Cup (an under-23 competition).

The page has been subject to continual vandalism/unsourced additions for the last month. If the cap is indeed valid, it could do with being semi-protected. If it isn't, then it should probably be deleted and salted. Cheers, Nzd (talk) 12:37, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

He was a late sub in Indonesia's match against Iceland yesterday (14 January) according to Soccerway.[1] I'm not sure if this was a full international though. Hack (talk) 14:01, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Spain task force/Spanish club names (relating to WP:KARLSRUHER)[edit]


I would like you to take a look at a draft of this page, created by me - it appears that I am confused about the way certain Spanish teams should be displayed as what I have noticed on the latest difference by User:Quite A Character. The red text is the bit I am not sure on, and the question marks and ('Spanish equilavent of KARSRUHER') should be replaced with the appropriate word. I have noticed inconsistencies with the piping on certain Spanish club names - that causes confusion on my part. Iggy (Swan) 23:06, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what you mean here. While I don't speak Spanish, as far as I can tell, there is no direct equivalent to the Karlsruher problem in Spanish. The practice of using adjectives/demonyms in club names is far less common, and using just the adjective seems to be an accepted shorthand. For example, among current La Liga clubs, only Deportivo Alavés uses the adjective form of a place name, and shortening it to Alavés is common practice in Spanish. Sir Sputnik (talk) 02:14, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
As far as i'm concerned, several users pipe ALL clubs in box and storyline. Me, for aesthetic reasons, choose to leave them in full in storyline and, 99,99999999999999999% of the time, encounter no "resistance" whatsoever while doing so.
On a related note, I'll leave you with this situation: there is this article called CD Numancia. "Numancia" is not the name of any city, it being the old Roman name for the city of Soria. Thus, if the article is named with the "CD", why are we forbidden to display it in full in storyline (just remembered now, same goes for CA Osasuna, from the city of Pamplona)? Shouldn't we be worrying more about stuff like sourcing content in storyline and akin? Just saying...
Attentively --Quite A Character (talk) 22:03, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
The question isn't "why are we forbidden?", it's "why should we?". In English prose, which is what we're supposed to be writing in, it's rare to see a football club name written in full, whether the main part refers to a place or anything else. If forms like Getafe CF or CA Osasuna are rarely if ever used in published English prose, we shouldn't use them either. Obviously, if there's more than one club from the same city, like the multiple clubs from various places called Mérida, we should use the full name initially (both in the infobox and the lead section, and at first use in the prose) to establish context, and then use the short name thereafter.
Incidentally, I googled Numancia on In running prose, they generally use just Numancia, not CD Numancia, both in their English-language and Spanish-language content. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:37, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
Agree that we should pipe Spanish/Portuguese club names at all times. No reason not to. GiantSnowman 15:48, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

West Ham questions?[edit]

@Egghead06 and Koncorde (or anyone else): Just to note, I have a call scheduled with John Powles on Tuesday. The main focus will be properly citing and correcting inaccuracies in the Thames Ironworks season pages, but if there's anything particular you want me to raise, please let me know. Nzd (talk) 23:13, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

I have Powles book "Iron in the Blood: Thames Ironworks FC, the Club That Became West Ham United", well worth reading. I used it for citations and info for the main History of West Ham United article. @Spyrides: was doing the Thames Ironworks seasons at the time, but they seem to have gone largely inactive since 2015. It surprises me to see it isn't listed as a source. Also, say "Hi" to Powles, he answered a question several years ago regarding West Ham history - but for the life of me I can't remember what it was. Ping me on any pages you have issues with, if I have time I can provide any content from the book. Koncorde (talk) 15:14, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
I actually have Spyrides' copy of the book :) I've gone through and added genrefs to the pages I where I thought it necessary and I've made a start with inline citations. If you've seen any other pages where it's missing, do let me know. Will do.. Nzd (talk) 19:51, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
Very useful hour-and-a-half on the phone with John last week, Notes here. I've made some of the changes and still have more to do, but need to clarify some points before making some of the others. Nzd (talk) 21:56, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Portsmouth F.C.[edit]

I am questioning myself on a revert I did, I saw this IP editor has done a fair bit of work on the article, but I questioned weather this statement which I saw added in by the IP (Pompey was also a generic African-American slave name) was that right to add to the article? I really didn't like hearing that so... Did I just revert because WP:IDONTLIKEIT, or is there something worse going on, on the article, is it being improved or vandalised? I really don't know if I am confusing myself over it or not!! Govvy (talk) 12:31, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

You correctly reverted that information. Its relevance to the football article was not clarified.--MarshalN20 🕊 15:57, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Two national championships in European football template[edit]

@Matthew hk: @Nzd: @Koncorde: @Struway2: @GiantSnowman: @Quite A Character: Hello all. Apart from a few exceptions, there have been no two national championships within a year in Europe. In Turkey there was the Turkish National Division (from 1937 to 1950) and the Turkish Football Championship (from 1924 to 1951). Thus they existed at the same time for about 14 years and there were two national football champions in those years.

Now my question is how to put that into the European football template of a specific year/season.

For example into this one:

I have added the National Division, but the Turkish Football Championship was also held that year. How would you implement it into the template? Any suggestions are welcome. Regards, Akocsg (talk) 16:10, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

I would go with something similar to the Latvia one so something like:
Hardly perfect, but not ground breaking. Koncorde (talk) 16:28, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, can't be of any assistance there (i am as dumb as they come concerning charts and templates and akin), but thanks for "calling" me to the discussion). --Quite A Character (talk) 16:33, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

For Turkey, I'd say the following would work best:
  • Turkey (National Division '40 '41, Football Championship '40 '41)
Should be clear enough. S.A. Julio (talk) 19:12, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
Either way should be fine I would have thought. Nzd (talk) 19:42, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I will do it like that. Regards, Akocsg (talk) 02:43, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

 Done. This topic can be archived. Akocsg (talk) 04:39, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Vandal detected[edit]

Please check the contributions of this IP. Thanks!

Someone is using for a long time now, various IP's in order to add to various squad lists the name of a hypothetical player called Bruno Pereira, i.e. like over here. I'm afraid that this person is doing the same thing for a long time!!! Pavlos1988 (talk) 22:20, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

@Pavlos1988: not currently active so we can't block I'm afraid. GiantSnowman 08:49, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

2018 Club Atlético River Plate season[edit]

Hi all.

Me and FerchuJenson have had a discussion regarding his creation of the 2018 Club Atlético River Plate season article. Argentina runs a 2017–18 style calendar league season, which already has the equivalent season article. However, FerchuJenson has created the 2018 season article due to the Copa Libertadores/Copa Sudamericana calendar following the January to December format and rumours that the Argentine league may re-adopt the Jan-Dec format for next season (2018, from July/August). Am I correct in stating this would be classed as WP:TOOSOON? R96Skinner (talk) 05:51, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi, FerchuJenson here. Just to make sure my point was clear (since english is not my mother language), Top League in Argentina may -or may not- change the calendar, but CONMEBOL (South American Football Confederation) has been using the Jan-Dec calendar (suitable from southern hemisphere) since January 2017, and the competitions organized by the continental authority have been held that way since the very begining of 2017. So perhaps it's not a matter of "too soon" but a matter of "should we guided by Argentine Football Association or South American Football Confederation?".FerchuJenson (talk) 06:59, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Helsingin Jalkapalloklubi of Finland used calendar year to follow their domestic league. Seem using domestic league was the style. Matthew_hk tc 02:11, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Page moves[edit]

As I don't have administrative capabilities, the following pages should be moved to their correct articles, thank you:

Category:UAE Arabian Gulf Cup seasons should be moved to Category:UAE League Cup seasons
Template:Arabian Gulf League teamlist should be moved to Template:UAE Pro-League teamlist.--Bijanii (talk) 18:35, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
@Bijanii: About category move, you can consider WP:CFD; About templete move, you can consider WP:RM. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 18:43, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
Maybe WP:RM#TR is useful. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 18:45, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
I have moved the template. You'll need WP:CfD for the category to be moved. @Bijanii: I see you have moved numerous categories manually – this should not be done. After an RM you should request categories be moved at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Speedy‎, which will be done within two days and then a bot will do the moving (categories of articles that have been moved without an RM are not eligible for a speedy request and have to go to a full CfD discussion). Number 57 19:00, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
Didn’t know that, thank you for the informative instructions. I’ve requested the move now.--Bijanii (talk) 09:07, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Gulf Cup of Nations[edit]

User Hashim-afc controversially moved the Gulf Cup of Nations page as well as each respective edition’s article without seeking WP:RM, and was denied the category move request for the same reason. Should the articles be moved back and restored?--Bijanii (talk) 09:19, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Michael Ballack[edit]

Can please anyone have look a ChocolateRabbit‎ (talk · contribs) edits in Michael Ballack? He insists on shortening Chemnitzer FC to Chemnitzer which is just plain wrong (see WP:KARLSRUHER for the reasons why this is wrong). I advised him several times to stop it, but he insists on his disruptive behavior. --Jaellee (talk) 21:17, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

As I've said it is an essay, it is not a rule or guidline and no one has to follow it. It is complete and utter rubbish -- 🐇 ChocolateRabbit 21:19, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

It was a consensuses. Fail to discuss content dispute is a disruptive behavior and could be blocked. Since there is Chemnitzer BC, there is a legit reason not to pipe it as per WP:KARLSRUHER Matthew_hk tc 21:22, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Nobody in the whole wide world refers to Chemnitzer FC as "Chemnitzer", it's 100% wrong as explained in WP:KARLSRUHER. Plain and simple. If you're having trouble believing this, check the list of articles at the German sports magazine Kicker which refers to the club as "Chemnitz" (for the city), "der Chemnitzer FC", or "der CFC". (talk) 21:34, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Agree that for Chemnitzer FC it should be the full name, and not piped. GiantSnowman 12:03, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

2017–18 Premier League[edit]

An edit war is ongoing over at 2017–18 Premier League between @Mkhp1990 and PeeJay2K3 over the inclusion of a season progression table (diff). I personally think it's quite good but other opinions are needed. I've brought it here as inclusion would obviously affect other articles. Nzd (talk) 11:42, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

This is something that has been removed time and time again from various articles over the last few years. Unfortunately, there are far more editors out there running pet projects on various articles than there are of us, and so this sort of thing inevitably becomes the status quo. However, I really don't see the use of such a table. These articles are already overly full of stats and tables; if someone comes to Wikipedia looking for that information, they're looking in the wrong place – they should be looking in a stats almanac. – PeeJay 11:51, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Consistency for U19 and U17 Euro qualifiers[edit]

It's been bugging me for a while that qualifying tournaments for U17 and U19 Euro had two different pages for the seasons 2004 through 2014 (separately for First Round and Elite Round), and only one for every season since 2015 (for both rounds together), despite the format remained the same. How about bringing some consistency here? Either merge all or split all. --BlameRuiner (talk) 11:57, 22 January 2018 (UTC)