Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology/Archive 2013

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Archive 2010 Archive 2011 Archive 2012 Archive 2013


Coat of arms of Boston College

An article relating to this project Coat of arms of Boston College, has been nominated for deletion see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Coat of arms of Boston College. Regards ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 15:14, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Warbelton v. Gorges

I have added the projects banner (hope that's the preferred term) to this article talkpage. It needs assessing: I would have thought it was quite important, but what do I know. I'm a horse racing editor and got there from Bend Or => Scrope v. Grosvenor => Warbelton v. Gorges.  Tigerboy1966  01:20, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

US Flags and Seals

I merged Seal of Virginia into Flag of Virginia to make the new Seal of Virginia. I also merged Flag of New Jersey into Seal of New Jersey to make the new Coat of arms of New Jersey.

In both cases the Flag was just the Seal/CoA on a solid-color background. In both articles the vast majority of content was within the scope one article was within the scope of the other (with the exception of the "Reverse" section of the Seal of Virginia article). The dived effort severely deteriorated the quality of both Jersey articles and the Virginia flag article, and left them stubs. The new articles are far more complete. I just noticed that allot of other US flag/Seal articles seem to have the same problem, so I guess Virginia and New Jersey can serve as test cases. In slimmer cases to the Virginia and New Jersey, should we merge the articles, and if not how should we handle this problem of overlap and dived efforts across two articles? Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 23:21, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

As long as the images of both the flag and the seal remain on the page, and the navigation templates are updated accordingly, this sort of merger sounds fine to me! I would note that at least a few states - such as Iowa - have very different seals and flags, so retaining the separate navigation templates would be a good idea.. – Philosopher Let us reason together. 01:34, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Agree completely with the principle (and also with considering the same policy for some, but not all, other states). My only comment regards the titles: I would have called them Seal and flag of Virginia and Arms and flag of New Jersey, just to make clear what's going on, and then tweaked the section titles in the Virginia article to clarify that it's mostly about the seal. However, I don't feel terribly strongly about this: the important thing is that the individual topics, which people are still likely to search under, remain as redirects to the merged article. GrindtXX (talk) 13:12, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Sorry GrindtXX, I meant to get back to you sooner. Your idea might work in cases like Virgina where there's just a seal, and the seal in the form of a flag. However in cases like New York and New Jersey we have the CoA, and the CoA in the form of a flag and a seal, so to go with your idea the title would need to be something along the lines of "Arms flag and Seal of X" which would be pretty wordy. The New Jersey type case seems to me much more common then the Virgina type case. Also this isn't like Flag and coat of arms of Moldavia where the flag and CoA are variations of the same symbol, in these cases the flag itself is a variation of the Coat of Arms or seal. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 17:37, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
Also I agree that we shouldn't do this with all states, alot of state flags aren't just the CoA's/seal's in flag form. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 17:39, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
I don't think this is a good idea. Just because things are similar doesn't mean they should inherently be combined into a single article. I think the situation is even more complex in the case of New York, which has 3 different things on a single page: the coat of arms, the seal, and the flag. It's also not clear to me why the coat of arms was chosen as the name of the article; I imagine it will be confusing to users looking for information about the flag to be redirected to an article about the coat of arms, as the two have very different uses. I have restored the contents of Seal of New York, but I cannot move Coat of arms of New York back to Flag of New York myself because of the now-existing redirect. In addition, in the future, I think changes like this should have more discussion before they are undertaken. There are procedures in place for the process of merging articles, and they should be followed. Gordon P. Hemsley 05:43, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
You can't just come along a mouth after the discussion, and after we've already made allot of the merger's, and unilaterally make edits that go against conciseness like that. We already discussed this a month ago and came to a consensus, these types of articles have too much overlap to justify separate articles. Your lone decent a mouth later doesn't change that.
To quote User:Fut.Perf. "what matters here is not whether [the articles are about] theoretically distinct entities in some abstract sense; what matters is that what we factually have to say about them is 99% overlapping. Our definition of article topics is not necessarily meant to reflect abstract classifications and ontologies of things out there, but efficient packaging of information for readers." To use New York as an example, look at the old flag article and the old seal article. With the partial exception of the old flag article's "History and Evolution" section, they 99% overlapped. We don't have enough distinct content for two separate articles, the flag is just the CoA on a blue background.
The use of the governors flag and the regular flag is quite different, tough those "2 different things" were both covered on the old flag article. The use of the plain CoA and the seal is probably also quite different yet those "2 different things" were both covered on the old seal article. Do you propose that we "split" (or more accurately duplicate) those articles into two more almost identical articles. Even the regular flag probably has allot of different uses, so maybe we shouldn't stop at four identical articles.
As for your procedural concern, Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy. I wasn't proposing that any particular article be merged. There was a plobleam that applied across a wide number of articles, so I started a central discussion here, the central place for decisioning flags, CoA's and seals, where it would attract the attention of everyone who regularly edits those type of articles. I also at the same time left a note of this deduction on WikiProject United States, thus getting the attention of everyone who regularly edits US related articles. That the others chose not to participate is a sign that they see nothing to add to what I, Philosopher, and GrindtXX have said.
This was a central discussion to figure out how to handle the problem of the extreme overlap between these types of articles, and we came to a consensus, merge them. Merging was just a possible solution I put on the table, not my explicit proposal. What would you have had me do, go through every single US flag, CoA, and seal article, identify every single one that had this problem, and tag it, and start a proposed merge on one of the the talk pages, because one possible solution to the problem was to merge them. When you want to discuss a problem that's across huge numbers of articles like that, the place to bring the problem is usually to the relevant WikiProject (if there is one), and that's exactly what I did. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 23:30, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

About Arms of Savoy

(By Google traduction ^^° ) Hello. For your information, I found a few days changes the coat of arms of the Duchy of Savoy on wp:en The new proposal differs in hue compared to the observed usage, otherwise the shape is also slightly from the traditional Escutcheon. The user Fry1989 Reverts changed on wp:en. I do not know the purpose of your encyclopedia, but on wp:fr the new coat of arms is not suitable especially without prior discussion. If your side you can see what it is. Sincerely. B-noa (talk) 16:05, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


The usage of Eagles is up for discussion, see talk:Eagles (band) -- (talk) 00:18, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

The Coat of Arms of The Duchess of Cornwall.jpg.png

file:The Coat of Arms of The Duchess of Cornwall.jpg.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 02:11, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Flag of Suffolk County, New York.png

file:Flag of Suffolk County, New York.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 02:56, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Harrisburg pa flag.png

file:Harrisburg pa flag.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 03:01, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Sovereign Base Areas arms.png

file:Sovereign Base Areas arms.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 06:04, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Notification: Copyright issue of the coat of arms and flag of Ascension Island

The regional arms and flag of Ascension Island, a part of Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha, a British Overseas Territory, were approved.

Previously, they were (or are) copyrighted. However, they were recognised as the official symbols of the island, so I think it perhaps became (or will become) public domains.

I don't have knowhow of copyright issues, so I request someone who has knowhow to check the images' copyright status. Thank you. --Wikipean (talk) 17:15, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Frederick md seal.png

file:Frederick md seal.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 06:42, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

And it has been renominated -- (talk) 05:06, 20 April 2013 (UTC)


image:FingalCrest.png has been nominated for speedy deletion -- (talk) 05:10, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


File:Darlingt.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 05:09, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


File:JubalandCoatsofArms.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 05:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

John Buchanan Arms 1657.png

image:John Buchanan Arms 1657.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 16:49, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

SumnerTN seal.JPG

image:SumnerTN seal.JPG has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 01:13, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Schwerin coat-of-arms.jpg

File:Schwerin coat-of-arms.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 01:26, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Kings-Royal-Hussars cap badge.gif

File:Kings-Royal-Hussars cap badge.gif has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 02:48, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


File:Krolewiecherb.PNG has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 02:50, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Le sire de bouguenal (Buchanan) c 1445.png

File:Le sire de bouguenal (Buchanan) c 1445.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 03:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Flag of Bristol.png

File:Flag of Bristol.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 05:08, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Coat of arms of Manchester.png

File:Coat of arms of Manchester.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 04:09, 26 April 2013 (UTC)


File:Montgomerycounty.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 21:52, 29 April 2013 (UTC)


File:Motcopa.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 21:57, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Coat of arms of Robert Bewicke of Newcastle upon Tyne by Alexander Liptak.png

File:Coat of arms of Robert Bewicke of Newcastle upon Tyne by Alexander Liptak.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 22:26, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Tudor Crowns copy.jpg

File:Tudor Crowns copy.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 04:35, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

This is the official seal of Father Saturnino Urios University. A Roman Catholic university in Butuan City run by the Diocese of Butuan.png

file:This is the official seal of Father Saturnino Urios University. A Roman Catholic university in Butuan City run by the Diocese of Butuan.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 06:41, 6 May 2013 (UTC)


File:Cervinara-Stemma.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 00:30, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

File:Galeana coat of arms.gif

File:Galeana coat of arms.gif has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 12:38, 9 May 2013 (UTC)


file:BaltimorePoliceBadge.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 04:11, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Former VPSB.png

image:Former VPSB.png has been nominated for deletion, see WP:Possibly_unfree_files/2013_May_12#File:Former_VPSB.png -- (talk) 00:36, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

File:Logo MinInterior.png

File:Logo MinInterior.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 06:10, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

File:St. Pius X school crest.jpg

File:St. Pius X school crest.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 06:40, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

File:Kalkara coa.gif

File:Kalkara coa.gif has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 06:53, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


File:Bosconero-Stemma.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 06:53, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


File:BaltimorePoliceBadge.png has been renominated for deletion -- (talk) 05:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

File:Horton's mark identifying woolens.jpg

File:Horton's mark identifying woolens.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 06:04, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

File:Flag of the New Zealand Ministry of Transport 1968-1998.png

File:Flag of the New Zealand Ministry of Transport 1968-1998.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 06:55, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

File:Saint Peter's Prep Logo.png

File:Saint Peter's Prep Logo.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 05:05, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Sigma Upsilon Zeta crest.jpg

image:Sigma Upsilon Zeta crest.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 05:07, 24 May 2013 (UTC)


image:ParisPoliceLogo.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 06:40, 28 May 2013 (UTC)


File:SouthTipperaryCrest.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 05:08, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

KCL Coat of arms1.png

image:KCL Coat of arms1.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 05:10, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Making heraldic images online

Where does one make a high quality heraldic image for use on wikipedia? Thanks, Newtack101 (talk) 19:27, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

You can put in a request at WP:GL/I, but you will need to be very specific about what you want and where/how you plan to use it. It may take a while to get a response. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 20:13, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Coat of arms of Bishop Eva Brunne

Can someone create an image of the coat of arms of Eva Brunne, Bishop of Stockholm? The coat of arms can be found here. Surtsicna (talk) 16:17, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

The Office of the Whistleblower(SEC) Symbol.jpg

image:The Office of the Whistleblower(SEC) Symbol.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 06:18, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Aldergrove badge.jpg

image:Aldergrove badge.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 06:33, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Aberdeen Baptist Lui Ming Choi College.jpg

image:Aberdeen Baptist Lui Ming Choi College.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 05:14, 14 June 2013 (UTC)


image:City-of-Gilroy-seal.svg has been nominated for deleting -- (talk) 05:15, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

For those watching at home, the result was this file was deleted and another version is available on WM Commons at File:City of Gilroy seal.svg. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 21:16, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Seal of California, 1998, Riverside County Family Law Court, Riverside, California.jpg

image:Seal of California, 1998, Riverside County Family Law Court, Riverside, California.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 06:16, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Result was: deleted per WP:CSD#F4 (lack of licensing information). Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 21:28, 4 July 2013 (UTC)


image:403SqnBadge.JPG has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 03:22, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Result was: FUR written and nomination for deletion withdrawn. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 21:21, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Flag of Chin or Mizoram?

Is File:ChinHTML.gif flag of Chin or Mizoram? And under what name should it be vectorized? Chin has official subdivision flag File:Flag of Chin State.svg, but this seems to be ethnic. Mizoram has flag too File:Bandera de Mizoram.svg, but this seems to be more relevant (see this and this link). I propose name File:Chin or Mizo flag.svg, because Chin and Mizo are de facto the same people, only under different names in two countries. This flag is flag of people, neither of Mizoram nor Chin State (both are territories). Should I paste this request to Graphics Lab? This is not graphic request (vectorization is trivial), this is vexillology (what does this flag really represent?) And how should I mark Chin and Mizo languages on this page? Hosmich (talk) 08:13, 2 July 2013 (UTC) PS: What about "Kuki flag.svg"? What is relation between Chin, Kuki and Mizo? Does one cover the others? PS2: You can contribute to my gallery of twin flags. At this time I know no other twins (except for white-green Estonian regions).Unsigned comment posted by User:Hosmich (talk) 15:06, 2 July 2013‎

I notice that FOTW shows a flag resembling File:Flag of Chin State.svg as the Zomi/Zoram/Chin state flag and shows both File:Bandera de Mizoram.svg and File:ChinHTML.gif as Mizo flags. Interestingly, the comments at FOTW mention the lack of any connection to Iceland or Ceylon (notice how closely File:Bandera de Mizoram.svg resembles File:Flag of Iceland.svg). More importantly, FOTW indicates the status of the two Mizo flags is dubious, and I have (so far) been unable to find a reliable source for any recognized Mizo flag. Until reliable sources can be found to verify the status of the flag in question, I would suggest treading lightly, lest we assign unwarranted recognition to a dubious flag. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 02:34, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Cheshire East Flag.png

image:Cheshire East Flag.png has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Possibly_unfree_files/2013_July_5#File:Cheshire_East_Flag.png -- (talk) 05:34, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Flag of Pembrokeshire.png

image:Flag of Pembrokeshire.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 05:44, 6 July 2013 (UTC)


Please comment here on Template:Insignia, a permission tag for marking image files as official insignia, which are restricted independently of copyright. It seems to me that this tag should probably be applied to all images of government flags, arms, seals and logos, regardless of copyright status. Since this discussion concerns our usage of the template rather than improving the template itself, I feel that this page is a more appropriate forum than the template's talk page. Thank you! Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 16:51, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

I think this should be indicated/discussed at the template, since it concerns how to use the template, so would be instructive for people reading the template to have the discussion appear on its talk page. -- (talk) 04:55, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Presidencia Colombia logo.png

image:Presidencia Colombia logo.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 04:52, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

File:IIN logo (Expired).png

File:IIN logo (Expired).png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 04:39, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Source info has been added by the uploader, so removed the deletion tag. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 06:49, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Flag of Samar

I have uploaded flag of Nunatsiavut. I have created flag of Samar Island too, but I am not sure whether to upload it to Commons. There are many fictional flags on Commons, but this one has purpose - it is symbol of Waray-Waray language. Shikku27316 endorses me to upload, but I expect broader support. Hosmich (talk) 20:31, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Bulgarian cap badge from April Uprising.jpg

image:Bulgarian cap badge from April Uprising.jpg has been nominated for deletion, see Wikipedia:Possibly_unfree_files/2013_July_9 -- (talk) 05:00, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Color of Legion of Merit and deriving awards from pictures

Can I get some input on Talk:Legion of Merit § Color and Talk:Frank Kelso § Awards and decorations? Thanks. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 14:01, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Infobox heraldry

Did you know we have an {{Infobox heraldry}} template for national heraldic style articles (such as Swedish heraldry or Canadian heraldry)? It's a nifty tool, but I have some questions and suggestions about how we might improve it. Unfortunately, the template's creator has since retired, and I'd like wider input from the H/V community, so please offer your thoughts at Template talk:Infobox heraldry. Thanks! Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 02:14, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Makassar city flag.png

image:Makassar city flag.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 04:29, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Coat of Arms of Charlemagne.jpg

image:Coat of Arms of Charlemagne.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 07:14, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

The nomination has been reinstated -- (talk) 12:25, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Multiple article move request

I've opened a move request at Talk:Armorial of Plantagenet#Requested move concerning moving several list-class articles named "Armorial of..." to "List of coats of arms of..." because these are not articles about notable published armorials (like Armorial of Little Russia). Please join the discussion at Talk:Armorial of Plantagenet#Requested move.

If this move request is successful, I will also move "Armorial of the Presidents of..." articles to "List of coats of arms of the Presidents of...", and eventually all those French "armorial" articles by department (see list). I appreciate any and all help with this. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 21:24, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Interkosmos patch for GDR Cosmonauts.svg

image:Interkosmos patch for GDR Cosmonauts.svg is being discussed at NFCR, see WP:NFCR -- (talk) 05:33, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Coats of Arms up for deletion

Many coats of arms used in Italy are up for deletion, see Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2013 July 17 -- (talk) 05:17, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Coat of arms of Canada.svg

File:Coat of arms of Canada.svg (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has been nominated for deletion ; the commons version is distinctly different, using different elements. -- (talk) 07:31, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Northern Ireland

File:Cap Badge of the Ulster Defence Regiment.jpg (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) and File:RUR.jpg (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) have been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 07:34, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

File:Seal of Baltimore.jpg

File:Seal of Baltimore.jpg's copyright status is under discussion at WP:NFCR -- (talk) 06:03, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

File:Laconia, NH seal.JPG

File:Laconia, NH seal.JPG's copyright status is under discussion at WP:NFCR -- (talk) 06:03, 20 July 2013 (UTC)


The copyright status of File:Arms-cheshunt.jpg is under discussion at WP:NFCR -- (talk) 06:03, 20 July 2013 (UTC)


The copyright status of File:Arms-east-barnet.jpg is under discussion at WP:NFCR -- (talk) 06:03, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Article rescue (July 2013)

As folks work their way through the clean-up backlog, the oldest month for unreferenced articles is currently October 2006. Several articles listed there fall under the scope of our WikiProject. Please help me find sources for these unreferenced articles:

Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 00:02, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Files for review

The following files, found at Category:User-created public domain files from October 2006 and tagged as user-created free content, may need review for various reasons. These reasons may include dubious copyright status, orphaned files of dubious value, and possible nomination for deletion. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 03:33, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Other image files for review from 2006:

Intelligence Corps TRF.svg

image:Intelligence Corps TRF.svg has been nominated for deletion, see Wikipedia:Possibly_unfree_files/2013_July_27 -- (talk) 06:27, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Offer for vectorization

Hello everybody, I am able to vectorize flags on Wikipedia/Commons. My work is going to be here. Could you check and maybe correct names of SVG flags, before I upload them? I use Inkscape, and If I upload file of bad quality, will somebody fix it? Hosmich (talk) 19:52, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

You may wish to check out the Graphics Lab occasionally, as requests for vectorisation tend to appear there more than here. NikNaks talk - gallery 23:19, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Is there any chance you could add an image to Flag of Nunatsiavut? It's one of the few unofficial flags of Newfoundland and Labrador (furthest east Canadian province) for which we don't have an image. Thanks! MatthewVanitas (talk) 03:42, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
Hello Hosmich, I cannot resist your offer! I lack the technical skills required to make SVG files, and you seem to be just the person I have been searching for. Can you help us to make vectorized versions of these files, which are needed as replacements for incorrect versions of Norwegian royal arms and flags? Greetings from Roede (talk) 07:17, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
And where was I last month? I'm not sure why I didn't see this thread sooner, but Hosmich, you'll be most welcome around here! I don't come up with a lot of requests for vectorization, but I do find some on a semi-regular basis. I don't know if you are acquainted with Commons:User:Lokal Profil and Commons:User:Ssolbergj, but they have both made some great contributions in the form of vectorized coats of arms. I'm sure there are others out there as well, but these two have worked with me on Swedish heraldry and Icelandic heraldry, and they may be able to help if you have any questions. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 15:10, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
I don't know Commons:User:Lokal Profil and Commons:User:Ssolbergj, Roede is my only Norwegian contact. I was requested by a Croatian to vectorize his family coat of arms, but because I answered only this month, he didn't send me the CoA. Maybe he has requested someone other. I have vectorized three from four images from gallery, soon I will upload them. I will conserve the license and name from bitmap versions. If you want some change, tell me soon. Seals of Baltimore and Laconia are harder nut, I use only Inkscape and sometimes Vector Magic. But I will try. Hosmich (talk) 14:16, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Files for deletion

A few files have been tagged for deletion, because these unused raster images have higher quality vector versions available:

Personally, my inclination is to allow deletion of these raster images, since each has a SVG version available. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 02:30, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Feedback request at WT:NOT

Please provide feedback at Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not#Lists of flags. Thanks. –Quiddity (talk) 19:39, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Request for comments: Double-headed eagle

There is an ongoing discussion at Talk:Double-headed eagle#Further comments regarding the scope of the article's image gallery and criteria for determining which images should be included therein. As this discussion is currently between only two editors, I think the article would benefit from the opinion of other editors. Please offer your comments. Thank you. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 21:13, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Joint Svc Commendation ribbon.jpg

image:Joint Svc Commendation ribbon.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 04:28, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

  • Are military ribbons within our scope? I'm asking honestly, because I thought we kicked all these over to MilHist a while back, though there is overlap, in that they involve a distinctive use of colours to represent an awarded rank/status, and some of these appear in the collars of certain orders surrounding the escutcheons of their bearers. Should we, as a WikiProject, consider military ribbons within the scope of our project? Perhaps we should clarify the scope of our project. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 14:39, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
If they're not, I'll try to remember in future to only leave the notice at MILHIST. -- (talk) 04:59, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
I don't know. Don't take my word for it. Hopefully others will weigh in on this. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 23:47, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Punjab Police Pakistan Logo2.png

image:Punjab Police Pakistan Logo2.png has been nominated for deletion -- (talk) 05:00, 14 August 2013 (UTC)


"Cornflower" has been proposed to be renamed, see talk:Cornflower -- (talk) 23:44, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

File:Guidon of the Queen's Royal Irish Hussars.jpg

There's a request for assistance in fixing the licensing and things for this file by its uploader on my talk page. If anyone can see anything that would need to be fixed up, that'd be appreciated. -- (talk) 12:08, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

WP Heraldry and Vexillology in the Signpost

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Heraldry and Vexillology for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. –Mabeenot (talk) 15:44, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Multiple article move request

There is an ongoing move request discussion at Talk:Armorial of the Presidents of the United States, which also effects several other articles. Please comment there. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 03:19, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Identification of coats of arms

Could someone please help to identify these coats of arms that appear on a cabinet in the anteroom of the Chief Justice's Chambers in the Old Supreme Court Building, Singapore? As Singapore was a former British Colony, I suspect they are from the United Kingdom. Thanks in advance. — Cheers, JackLee talk 15:13, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

The images appear to be reversed, as if photographed in a mirror. The second shield must be that of Lincoln's Inn; see the first quarter at right. I don’t recognize the style of crown appearing in the first shield, but the saltire-between-thistles motif is quite common among Scottish societies. (The nearest match I could find in Balfour Paul’s Ordinary is for the Society of Writers to His Majesty‘s Signet (1789): “Az. a saltire arg., in the flanks two thistles or and in chief and in base the Royal Signet of the second …“.) In the third shield (second photo) the sword & balance-beam in saltire allude to justice, while the escutcheon of Scotland implies some sort of authority or recognition from the Scottish Crown. As for the fourth shield (third photo), Parker’s Glossary has “Gules, a griffin segreant, or--RIVERS, Earl of Devon” but those aren’t the arms we have (which were later adopted by the Percies). If we ignore the field colour it might be the gryphon of Gray’s Inn, fourth quarter at right.—Odysseus1479 21:55, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
For the sake of completeness, I just wanted to confirm that the first coat of arms shown is indeed that of the Society of Writers to Her Majesty's Signet: see, for example, "File:WSSociety.JPEG" and [1]. Note that that is the Society's coat of arms, not the actual signet itself (which is described here). — Cheers, JackLee talk 19:53, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
A little more digging has turned up a probable identification for the third coat of arms: the Scottish Faculty of Advocates. From Fox-Davies: “Gules, a balance or, and a sword argent in saltire, surmounted of an escutcheon of the second, charged with a lion rampant within a double tressure flory counterflory of the first.”—Odysseus1479 01:21, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! The lateral inversion is very odd. I can confirm that this is how I photographed them. Clearly the cabinetmaker was unfamiliar with the coats of arms and got them wrong, and either no one noticed for many years or decided not to bother to have them changed. — Cheers, JackLee talk 09:00, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Presumably from the same set
Odd indeed! Lincoln’s Inn and the gryphon appear the right way around in the image at right (the latter’s field appears to be blue or black here), while the pegasus (which might be for the Inner Temple, albeit in gold instead of silver—see above) is reversed. Might the cabinets, or at least the shields, have originally come in chiral pairs? (It’s not uncommon for craftspeople to make heraldic blunders, failing to appreciate the limited scope of ‘artistic licence’ in emblazonment.)—Odysseus1479 09:39, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
The photographs I posted are from cabinets in the anteroom of the Chief Justice's Chambers, whereas the photograph found by you and displayed above (not taken by me; I also took some photographs but haven't uploaded them yet) shows the Chief Justice's Chambers itself. What's a chiral pair? — Cheers, JackLee talk 10:15, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
A pair of objects that are mirror images of each other, like a person’s hands. (Sorry to be obscure; “chiral” is mostly used in chemistry—see Enantiomer.) Just speculating the cabinets might have been intended to face each other, or be otherwise arranged in symmetrical pairings. I realize they’re not the same pieces (and the photo’s from five years ago), but they’re evidently of the same design.—Odysseus1479 10:50, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Ah, I see. Yes, I suppose it is possible that the cabinets were once in the same room, and then some got moved into the anteroom. Here are the photographs of the coats of arms on the cabinet in the Chief Justice's Chambers that I took. — Cheers, JackLee talk 17:51, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Noting that Jacklee has confirmed that the first CoA in the top gallery belongs to the Society of Writers to Her Majesty's Signet; the charges I (and possibly the artist) mistook for crowns actually represent the signet seal, viewed from the side while face-down. Like the Inner Temple‘s pegasus they’re in gold instead of the silver specified in the blazon, and they lack the Signetum Regium inscription (which I elided in the quotation above). The defense rests, m’lud.Odysseus1479 19:47, 13 October 2013 (UTC) edited 23:20, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Ha, ha! Yes, the discrepancies can no doubt be put down to an inexperienced craftsman. Once again, thanks to everyone for helping to solve the mysteries. Oh, the wonders of crowdsourcing ... — Cheers, JackLee talk 08:37, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Filet, Switzerland

Hello, The image link to the coat of arms for Filet, Switzerland seems to be broken. The image is located at de:Datei:Filet.wappen.jpg but my German is bad and I am not sure why this image has not been moved to Wikipedia Commons. As a result, I'm asking here if someone more knowledgable about this can advise or handle this seemingly easy edit. Thanks! - tucoxn\talk 00:30, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Similarly, the coat of arms for Frenelle-la-Grande is located at de:Datei:Blason Frenelle-la-Grande 88.png but requires an "individual review" before transferring to Commons. Perhaps this is a known issue.... Thanks again for your help! - tucoxn\talk 00:38, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Flag of Los Altos

I blundered onto Flag of Los Altos in random browsing - it shows a tricolor with no volcano and no quetzal, which are in the description. Everything unsourced. I'm afraid I'm not interested enough to fix it myself - I was only curious where Los Altos is. Wnt (talk) 20:19, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Proposed restrictions on styles & titles of former royals

Proposed restrictions on styles & titles of former royals A proposal is now pending to !vote to ban use of titles, honorifics and styles historically associated with titled members of no longer reigning families or to require that wherever such titles are mentioned in a Wikipedia bio, article or template that a disclaimer must be attached informing the reader that the title/style is not legal or is a courtesy title only. You may read opinions and express your views here. FactStraight (talk) 22:52, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Part of multimove

Unlikely to be moved now but just for the record Talk:Flag of MinorcaFlag of Menorca 1983; it doesn't show up in Project Alerts, as wasn't listed separately. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:09, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Warinus de la Strode

I would appreciate some more comments at Talk:Warinus de la Strode, where one editor is attempting to keep a coat of arms in an article about someone who died before heraldry existed. — Scott talk 20:40, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposed merger

There is a proposition that coat of arms of the London Borough of Haringey should be merged with London Borough of Haringey. Say what you think at Talk:London Borough of Haringey#Proposed merge with Coat of arms of the London Borough of Haringey. Arms Jones (talk) 23:05, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Circular definition problem

National flag says:

Historically, flags originate as military standards...

"Military standard" redirects to War flag, which begins:

A war flag (military flag or battle flag) is a variant of a national flag...

National flags obviously didn't originate as variants of themselves. Could someone please fix this? Thanks. — Scott talk 21:23, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

It seems Vanisaac fixed this by changing the redirect of military standard to point to Colours, standards and guidons instead. It seems like a good solution. Arms Jones (talk) 23:09, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
I was trying to come to a good phrasing for why it was a fallacy to conflate the current state of war flags with the historic derivation, when I realized that war flag was an inoptimal target for the military standard redirect, and finding a better redirect would solve the issue without having to split hairs. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 23:29, 21 December 2013 (UTC)


I have tried to work a little on the category structure, e.g. Introducing a Category:Municipal coats of arms. Does anyone else in the project have an opinion? Arms Jones (talk) 21:33, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Colonial Flags

Hi there I was wondering for the Flags of the British Empire article if we could have some re-creations of some colonial flights which do appear on the article but I'm not actually Wikipedia images and as a result of poor quality. I don't know whether this is the right place to put these requests but I'm hoping messages I'm very passionately into this project but I have no artistic's skills all the ability to accurately recreate flags so I am hoping as you are the experts if you will consider in recreating the following flags.

Hong Kong 1910-1959

Hong Kong 1959-1997 (I think the blue is too dark at present for the Ensign so just a minor edit there)

British Weihaiwei 1900-1930

Barbados 1885-1958

Thank you ( (talk) 14:25, 27 December 2013 (UTC))

If you know what the images should look like, you could always try the Graphics Lab. I've dealt with them before, so if you need any help, just drop me a line on my talk page. Achowat (talk) 14:59, 27 December 2013 (UTC)