Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indonesia

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Like this

Bit of a long shot, but does anyone here either know how to make svg maps or know whoever made the regency/provinces map? I feel like having IndonesiaRegenciesMap.svg like the US counties would come in handy in a lot of articles. Juxlos (talk) 05:40, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

You could try asking at Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop. --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:14, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
@Juxlos: How did you make this? HaEr48 (talk) 20:35, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
@HaEr48: I didn't make it, if anything I'm asking if someone can make it Juxlos (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
@Juxlos: I was asking how you made the Banten election map (according to Commons it's made by you), and it appears to have regency boundaries. HaEr48 (talk) 00:40, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
@HaEr48: I based it off the regency map for Banten and just used the bucket tool. Though, national-level regency maps don't exist just yet. Juxlos (talk) 00:46, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
@Juxlos: I see. Now I remember seeing this very impressive website, which has a a nicely colored map of the 2014 election results. You can scroll down to see kabupaten (regency) and even kecamatan level. The page has a technical note about how the map is generated. I tried to follow it and it seems that the regency boundaries come from this file: [1]. On the face of it it seems with the right skill it can be transformed into the regency map you're talking about. Unfortunately I'm nowhere near having that particular skill. I'm not sure how technical you are though. Anyway, I hope this helps you in the right direction. HaEr48 (talk) 01:20, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
@HaEr48: As it happens, the shapefiles the user used was licensed under CC-BY-SA 4.0 so I'll see around if there's anything I can figure to make the file. Thanks a lot! Juxlos (talk) 01:28, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Perfected spelling/Ejaan yang disempurnakan (EYD)[edit]

Why only Sukarno and Suharto that use EYD while on the other hand we have many articles that don't use EYD such as Pramoedya Ananta Toer, Boediono, Basuki Tjahaja Purnama and others. Is there a consensus on this? Hddty. (talk) 01:14, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

Looking through the article's talk page archives, the WP:COMMONNAMEs in English sources are Sukarno and Suharto. You can always try to start a renaming discussion, but I can already tell you now: it is just about impossible to overrule a Wikipedia-wide law like WP:COMMONNAME. --HyperGaruda (talk) 20:09, 20 July 2018 (UTC).
  • It seems puzzling that the spelling "Suharto" is used on Wikipedia. I have gone along with it for a long time because it seems so hard to challenge but I am uncomfortable with the approach. My understanding is that when the EYD system was introduced in Indonesia in the early 1970s, it was agreed that individuals could choose how to spell their names and whether to adopt EYD for their own names or not. Many Indonesians, including Soeharto, chose to stick with the old spelling. It is clear that "Soeharto" is the official spelling of the President's name. It is clear that this is the spelling he used himself. All official documents and statements issued in his name use "Soeharto", and his main official autobiography (G. Dwipayana and Ramadhan K.H., 1989, Soeharto: Pikiran, ucapan dan tindakan saya: otobiografi, PT Citra Lamtoro Gung Persada) uses "Soeharto". Similarly, the extensive string of books and articles issued by his family in memory of him use the spelling "Soeharto". My own preference, both here and elsewhere, would be for Wikipedia to aim to stick to the spelling preferred by the person who is the subject of any article. Pmccawley (talk) 01:38, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
This has happened for over ten years on wikipedia. It goes around and around in circles and when it seems resolved, along comes another person to contradict and in most cases revert/reverse an earlier resolution. I do think that if anyone bother to read the above item by Peter McCawley, that we take notice, and stick to the spelling preferred by the person who is the subject - otherwise the templates that are thrown up like commonname simply end up in further down the line reverts. JarrahTree 09:01, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
  • My thanks to our good colleague JarrahTree for this comment. I'd just like to add one small additional comment to my suggestion that the best principle is to use the spelling preferred by the person who is the subject of the article. My comment is to mention that my own name is McCawley and I'd regard it as wrong if somebody arbitrarily decided to start spelling my name MacCawley. The name McCawley is on my birth certificate, drivers licence, and so on. MacCawley is somebody else as far as I'm concerned. In Indonesia, the former Vice President spells his name Boediono, not Budiono. There are lots of people called Budiono around, of course, but there has never been an Indonesian Vice President with the name Budiono. It seems odd, therefore, that Wikipedia opts for Suharto. It seems wrong to me. Pmccawley (talk) 10:29, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

Why is English Wikipedia so popular in Indonesia?[edit]

Looking at [2], I find it surprising that half of the views from Indonesia are to English Wikipedia. I'd have thought that since majority of Indonesians speak Indonesian language, they would read ind-wiki. I wonder if there's some education/wealth gap, i.e. since Internet penetration is only 25%, most people who have Internet are better educated, so can speak English, so go to English Wikipedia, and most who use ind-wiki are less educated people with poorer/none English skills? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 16:08, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

@Piotrus: I think the partial explanation is that the English Wikipedia has better coverage (both in terms of quality and quantity) than the Indonesian one. For example, if you do a web search on certain topic with no Indonesian article, the search engine will probably return the English wikipedia as one of the top result. As for language speakerrs, you are correct that there should be far more people comfortable with Indonesian than with English. But if the topic you're searching has no or low-quality coverage in the Indonesian WP, you have little choice. HaEr48 (talk) HaEr48 (talk) 18:16, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
  • In addition, it would be useful to know who the users are at the Indonesian end -- whether they are Indonesians, or are foreign users who are living in or visiting Indonesia. It would even be interesting to know how many views are from Bali alone because many foreign visitors to Bali probably access Wikipedia while they are visiting. Pmccawley (talk) 22:07, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
Based on Tourism in Indonesia there are about 10M foreign tourist in Indonesia or 4% from total population, so it doesn't have that much impact. Articles in mostly are translated from, there are very few editors that add original content. I have a theory that the number of a language speakers (in Internet) is proportional to the quality of its languange in Wikipedia. Hddty. (talk) 04:06, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
@Hddty: And 10M is an annual number, not the number of tourists at a given time. If (for example) on average they stay about a week out of a year, then you have to divide by 52, which makes the number even lower. So yeah, I don't think tourist would make any significant dent in the traffic pattern. HaEr48 (talk) 21:55, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
Historically the early years/stages of this Indonesian project had very few Indonesians actually editing (it is reverse now) and it was mainly non Indonesian editors. Now the cohort of this project are Indonesian with good english skills.
In the early days there were many Indonesian editors whose english simply was not up to scratch to edit here. They gave up in frustration (although a few still try to edit and have to be carefully edited after their edits).
One theory is that significant numbers of Indonesians either edit or read english wikipedia to help learn english.
Also some information on this project is limited to a large number of literally vacuous stubs - information absent items with simply recognition that something exists, with no coherent encyclopedia article content with it.
The point that HaEr48 makes about information in id wikipedia, compared to en wikipedia is one that reflects a complex issue of how and where the original information comes from. That needs to be dealt with at some stage.
The quality of information about Bali topics, for example, is abysmally poor and out of date, and if visitors visiting Bali took their understanding of wikipedia from the quality or depth of articles about Bali, the impression would be of something that got forgotten from the early days of the internet. If anyone actually took this project seriously to update and improve - it would be a cleanup drive of all Bali articles.
That said, the current cohort of the Indonesian project - mainly in Indonesia - have done very good work and are to be commended on their sustaining the project, past its initial stages, and into a more promising future, after the dropping away of the earlier crowd who have moved on with real life issues now taking up their time. I think it is something quite valuable to have had a group who started of the basics of the project, and now another generation of younger and in the main Indonesian editors to keep it going. (Hoping that doesnt sound too much like a new order speech... pidato pidato dan lain)
JarrahTree 00:55, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

RfC on election/referendum naming format[edit]

An RfC on moving the year from the end to the start of article titles (e.g. South African general election, 2019 to 2019 South African general election) has been reopened for further comment, including on whether a bot could be used move the articles if it closed in favour of the change: Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (government and legislation)#Proposed change to election/referendum naming format. Cheers, Number 57 15:36, 20 October 2018 (UTC)