Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism/Archive 9

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Aim and scope

The aim of the project has not yet clearly been elucidated. However, my past experience with Wikiproject "Clinical medicine" is:

  • When experienced editors exchange information, the quality of articles goes up due to coordination
  • Articles may be announced for peer review or floated for comments
  • Standards (such as Hebrew pronunciation!!) can be agreed upon
  • It makes edit wars briefer and less damaging
  • It helps in coordinated efforts against vandalism
  • Editors who are particularily knowledgable or have access to resources can do quick checks on facts.

Crossposted from IZAK's talk page:

I think a Wikiproject would be a massive step in the right direction. At least it will offer some unity in the otherwise very much fragmented approach to Judaism articles on Wikipedia (although IZAK's work on categorisation has brought a lot of structure). JFW | T@lk 15:52, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Jewish and Christian perspectives combined within articles: conflict with another project?

Hi folks. I would very much appreciate it if this project's participants would read Wikipedia:WikiProject_Bible#Goals and add your comments there. A happy and healthy new year to all! Dovi 17:59, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)


Sorry to "intrude" here (as a non-Jew), but I just made a lot of changes to Tetragrammaton, which I would like to have reviewed by someone coming from a Jewish background. (Transcription of the name is probably touchy here -- I hope that it has been handled tactfully.) Thanks, and Happy New Year! -- Mpolo 14:03, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)

No intrusion, please feel welcome! This project is for those who want to write encyclopedia articles about Judaism; everyone alike who shares that interest is welcome, Jewish or not. If fact, it would be good to have a few more people like you around. Sign up for the project!
I don't know if the people here have any special expertise in Tetragrammaton (what a word :-), I certainly don't. But some of us will try to take a look. Dovi 19:52, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)
I've looked over the article, it seems reasonable enough to me. Jayjg 20:43, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The Anti-word

Given recent skirmishes by some of our participants, I must state most forcefully that it is really unwise to accuse other users of "Anti-Semitism". Unless we can read their minds, we cannot state (or even suspect) their motives, which is even more an issue online than it is in personal conversation.

Of course there are those clear-cut cases (such as the spate of Holocaust deniers on Jew and Holocaust), but these blokes generally edit as anons, and are easier to dispose of. Please, please, please do not feed the trolls by calling them Anti-Semites. They will suddenly become morally indignant, start calling you for arbitration and other ills.

Can we please agree to this? I know it is mainly an issue on articles outside the scope of this WikiProject, but one can never be too careful. JFW | T@lk 19:53, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Agreed.--Josiah 20:29, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
JFW, I've pressed so hard for this agreement, right from the start of my involvement in this project, and I'm very pleased to see you pressing for it as well. You are quite right, we cannot know the motives of editors, and there has been an extremely strong tendency in the past to "cry wolf", with many (in my view) unwarranted accusations of anti-Semitism. As I've said before, it generally does more harm than good, making un-involved editors pre-disposed to ignore real cases of anti-Semitism because of all the false claims. The current situation is that one of the major abusers in this area is now banned from Wikipedia, in part because of consistently making these claims. I fear the other major abuser in this are may also be banned, even though he has made a huge overall contribuation to Wikipedia, particularly in areas related to Judaism and Israel. I cannot support your efforts strongly enough. Jayjg 22:39, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Talmudic citation

Do we have an article on citing the Talmud? When I'm bringing in articles from the Jewish Encyclopedia, their abbreviations are oftem pretty arcane. I'd like to have clear guidance of how to get from these to something more generally readable. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:20, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)

In Talmud there is some stuff about how to cite. It also has a list of the 63 Mishnaic tractates. I can always help. JFW | T@lk 02:35, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Tanach-person template

I've moved this discussion to talk:/People template.—msh210


Should Judaism have a big general template like Template:Christianity and Template:Islam? I think could be helpful with navigation.--Pharos 18:58, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

At current, we have Template:JewishLifeCycle. I think it would be good to convert it to Template:Judaism. However, the question is how much would it conflict with Template:Jews and Judaism sidebar? Would their simultanious existance cause problems? We can't merge them as they don't nessicarily cover each other entirely, and if they were entirely combined, it would be way too big. Anyone else? SF2K1

Mishnah / Chag Kasher Vesameach

Everyone is invited to enjoy the new look and content on Mishnah at Wikibooks:

Chag Kasher Vesameach! Dovi 14:21, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

New template: Judaism

Greetings. I've started a little project at Wikipedia:Sandbox/Template:Judaism as you can see...please help out in any way you can, or tell me why I should just stop it. :-p Tomer TALK 16:45, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

announcement of new policy proposal

This is just to inform people that I want Wikipedia to accept a general policy that BC and AD represent a Christian Point of View and should be used only when they are appropriate, that is, in the context of expressing or providing an account of a Christian point of view. In other contexts, I argue that they violate our NPOV policy and we should use BCE and CE instead. See Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/BCE-CE Debate for the detailed proposal. Slrubenstein | Talk 22:55, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

WP:WNBI & WP:Israel

Shalom, consider youself invited to the portal WP:Israel and the WP:WNBI notice board. Humus sapiensTalk 09:28, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Jewish Encyclopedia topics

Hello! Many of you are undoubtedly familiar with the contents of the public domain Jewish Encyclopedia [1] when doing online research to improve the coverage of Judaica on Wikipedia. To make it easier to identify the numerous subjects found in the JE which could be included in Wikipedia in the future, I have started posting a wikiformatted directory of Jewish Encyclopedia topics, as an extension of WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles. So far, the titles starting with the letters O, Q, U, and X, and the first half of L have been uploaded. I am currently working on the remainder of L. Please feel free to make use of these lists and lend any assistance you wish. Thanks.--Defrosted 29 June 2005 11:36 (UTC)

Template:Torah genealogy

I got this idea after seeing Template:Ancient Egyptians. Yes, I know there is Category:Torah people but if you like the idea of classifying who begot whom, let's first agree on scope/title and then work on format/content. Humus sapiens←ну? 07:59, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

BCE/CE v. BC/AD again

Please comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common Era, Talk:Kingdom of Judah#BCE/CE again. Humus sapiens←ну? 08:12, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I think it's best to let these debates die as quickly as possible - we all remember the divisiveness of the Slrubenstein debate. The article at AfD will clearly be kept, and the latter article will end up being dealt with in line with the approach of not changing styles

Remit of this project

How would contributors feel about extending the scope of this project to incorporate Jewish culture, history, and so forth. There is currently no central place to discuss topics relating to secular Jewish culture, and the like. (In particular, I was looking for a place to raise the issue of Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 November 2#Category:Jewish American actors.) We could start a new Wikiproject for Jewish history and culture, but perhaps it's not such a great idea to separate "Jews and Jewishness" from "Judaism". RMoloney (talk) 22:56, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

  • I'd be in favor of this, but I'm about equally comfortable with starting a second project if that's what people here prefer. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:59, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I agree. Most users in this project can contribute to such topics also, and so there is little need to create another group. jnothman talk 14:09, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
If the same community is used, care should be taken not to portray secular Jewish culture as being "second-best" or to suggest that the religion is a duty of the people, something that efforts of this kind both online and off often tend to overlook. I've seen it happen often, and it leads to a lot of unhappiness. --Improv 14:45, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I agree, but think that the current group is just as likely (if not more) to malign secular perspectives as any with broader coverage. jnothman talk 23:54, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I actually disagree. The definition of "Jewish" culture, music etc is unnecessarily broad. When this WikiProject started, its aim was to improve coverage of religious subjects only; we even decided to stay clear of antisemitism. The articles on religion itself need attention; one cold winter evening I'm going to be cleaning up Tefillin, etc. To add material that is not strictly religious will mean a blurring of the lines of what is "Judaism" and what it "Jewish". Is a play by Arthur Miller or a song by Lenny Kravitz "Jewish culture"? What defines this? I can carry on.

I will warmly encourage a WikiProject on Jewish culture, and (perhaps a seperate one) on Jewish history. But I think this WikiProject should stick to its core business. JFW | T@lk 00:30, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I've created Wikipedia:WikiProject Jewish culture. Naturally, I would hope that many of you would be interested in contributing. (And I am pretty new to WikiProjects, so any help would be much appreciated). RMoloney (talk) 23:26, 5 December 2005 (UTC)


I recently added a part on to the template "{{Jews and Judaism sidebar}}". I'm not an Infobox master, and I want you to take a look at my hadiwork--although I think I did petty well. The templates, in general, could use improvement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HereToHelp (talkcontribs) 22 Nov 2005

Article stub on dialectics in Judaism

Hi everyone - I've started outlining (and will soon start filling in) an article I've titled Dialectics in Judaism, which will serve as an overview of historical and contemporary disputes within Judaism, e.g., Hillel and Shammai; Pharisees, Saducees, and Essenes; Mitnagdim and Hassidim, etc. The article is intended as an overview of what these disputes were about, and what there outcomes were (to the extent that they have been resolved). Links to relevant in-depth articles should give the interested reader an opportunity to immerse himself/herself in them. Please weigh in on whether the current "list" is comprehensive on the major disputes, and of course with edits as I start writing. --Leifern 23:17, 27 November 2005 (UTC)


See Tosafists that is marked as needing a Wikipedia "upgrade" IZAK 06:28, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

The Wikipedian Hassidim

We've recently had a large influx of Hasidic editors. We've always had the occasional Chabad contributor, and some have even gone on to edit a fair amount, but recently various articles on Hasidic dynasties and rebbes have become the battlefield between anons and newly registered editors. Most of them seem ignorant of the manual of style, many use Yiddish/yeshivish idiom unsuitable for Wikipedia (e.g. putting HY"D after a Holocaust victim) and all of them need to learn about WP:NPOV and WP:V.

I think we should make some sort of a standard introduction, invite them to join us here, and together find a way to make the Chassidus-oriented pages a bit less of a shambles. All the Bobov-related pages are protected until the edit warriors can agree on the content, but in the absence of WP:NPOV this is going to take forever.

Is everyone else happy with this plan? JFW | T@lk 13:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Dear new editor. From your contributions to Hasidic Judaism-related articles I've got the impression you are knowledgeable about this field. There are many articles in need of attention, and I was wondering if you could join our discussion at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism|the "Judaism" WikiProject]]. Hope to hear from you ~~~~
Does that sound OK? JFW | T@lk
Sounds good. --Eliezer | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 13:53, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Category:Jewish Encyclopedia images

Please help round up the pd images from the Jewish Encyclopedia for this category! --Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 18:12, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


The previous page being extraordinarily ugly, I've edited the Text of the Kaddish section of the Kaddish article.

  1. While it includes near-encyclopaedic detail of traditional variations, it may better belong in Wikisource. Any opinions?
  2. I am missing translations for some lines from a nusach that is not my own.
  3. Some general copyediting would be nice: I'm too tired to check the niqqud or transcription or spelling now.

Thanks. jnothman talk 16:56, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm...I don't think the text is quite long enough to send it to wikisource (although I would support adding it to wikisource, I wouldn't support removing it from the article). That said, the fonts you used are...unpleasing...especially the italicized versions... TomerTALK 04:44, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
The fonts used were the fonts used by the prior editor of that text. I am not sure what to do about Hebrew fonts when you want the vowels to show correctly. Having Ezra SIL on my computer, I wouldn't say it looks unpleasing as such, though... What do you suggest? Thanks for the feedback. jnothman talk 05:22, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
I dunno...something sans serif maybe wouldn't look so pixelated. Also, what's the source for the text? I see "vechayim `aleinu ve`al kol yisra'el" everywhere, even "vechayim tovim `aleinu ve`al kol yisra'el", but not "vechayim lanu ul'khol yisra'el". Tomertalk 01:48, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

This discussion copied to, and response made, at Talk:Kaddish. Please continue all discussion there. jnothman talk 04:33, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


Someone created kehilla as an ad, but I've turned it into a stub with potential. There is a lot to write about the history of the kehilla, especially its role in the maintenance of Jewish autonomy in the Middle Ages, and its relevance in minhagim. Expansion is welcome. JFW | T@lk 16:33, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Category:Hebrew Bible verses (talk moved from main page)

See the verses in Category:Hebrew Bible verses with the two samples so far: Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2. Is this the way the Torah verses should be "presented"? (Compare with the verses in Category:New Testament verses.) At what point should the classical teachings of famous meforshim be inserted, and in what way and how much? The time to decide on this is now, because at this stage the "project" is still being "formed" by User:Neutrality alone. Thank you. IZAK 03:01, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Move to Wikisource/Wikibooks or delete Frikle 12:17, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Mikraot Gedolot Project (talk moved from main page)

Important: In the wake of IZAK's inquiry on this topic, and with strong support from Danny, a Mikraot Gedolot Project was launched at Hebrew Wikisource.

We are working on the five megillot. We did a good chunk of Ruth, and Mikraot Gedolot Eikhah will hopefully be about half finished by Tisha be-Av, keeping to a schedule of 1-2 verses per day. Take a look at איכה, especially, to see what a wonderful and powerful tool this can be.

The Hebrew version already has a lot of wonderful, high quality examples, though we are still getting started. It is possible to contribute parallel material in English. Dovi 13:04, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

There is a related VFD on this subject at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Individual Bible verses, and a connected survey at Wikipedia:Bible source text. ~~~~ 11:49, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Era Table (talk moved from main page)

Considering the Jewish outlook of history as a sequence of eras, vaguely, Adam, Enosh, Mabul, Migdal Bavel, Avos, Mitrayim, (end pre-Torah-giving) (start post-Torah-giving) midbar, navi, galus bavel, anshei keneses hagedolah, zugos, tanaim, amoraim, savorai, gaonim, rishonim, achronim, current. Perhaps a table can be given with links to each (that have a page) and the table be put in as a sidebar to the approriate "era" pages. I saw this done by the Ecumenical council (hope this isn't blasphemy :P), where each separate council page lists all the others, and thought it was a great idea. --Chacham 20:03, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Hebrew naming conventions (moved from main page)

Urgent: see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Hebrew) to add your opinions about this important matter. Thank you. IZAK 17:22, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Forum for Encyclopedic Standards (talk moved from main page)

I have drafted a proposal for a new voluntary association on Wikipedia (joining groups like the Wikipedia:The Business and Economics Forum and the Wikipedia:Harmonious editing club) to promote discussion of a sort of system of expert review on Wiki. Please take a look and add your ideas. 172 02:33, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

New page Sanhedrin (tractate) (talk moved from main page)

I added a short new page today, called Sanhedrin (tractate). Please feel free to take a look, comment, edit, whatever will make it better. Do you think we should move the old Sanhedrin article to Sanhedrin (court) and make a new Sanhedrin redirect page? Joaquin Murietta 05:39, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps a disambig is better. Let's see what the others think. JFW | T@lk 14:39, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
My recommendation: make a Sanhedrin (disambiguation), leave Sanhedrin where it is now, create a redirect from Sanhedrin (court) to Sanhedrin, and put :This article is about the Jewish religious court, for other uses of "Sanhedrin", see Sanhedrin (disambiguation) on the top of Sanhedrin. TomerTALK 21:04, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Sefer Hamitzvot (talk moved from main page)

I finally wrote up Sefer Hamitzvot. Comments please. JFW | T@lk 14:39, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I added some wikilinks and did a bit of copyediting, as well as made a coupla comments on the talk page. TomerTALK 21:48, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
And added an interwiki link to he:ספר המצוות לרמב"ם :-) TomerTALK 21:55, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Portal:Judaism update

Hi all. I hope you know about Portal:Judaism. It is being discussed whether the portal should be deleted because it doesn't satisfy certain requirements, because not much work has been done on it. Please see the discussion here. I request you to please contribute and make the portal survive. Thanks. deeptrivia (talk) 04:15, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

  • deeptrivia: Your "warning" is not well-timed, because a few of us have recently added and updated Portal:Judaism, which is doing great. IZAK 04:32, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
great! deeptrivia (talk) 04:39, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
You're welcome! IZAK 04:47, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

The portal is so template-thick that I don't see how to edit it, but at the moment it contains a clearly inappropriate, specifically Islamic rather than Jewish, graphic at its upper left. Can someone who understands how this is put together please fix it? Thanks. -- Jmabel | Talk 07:42, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Done. It's too easy to click Edit there to vandalize the intro, so I suggest disabling that link. The intro doesn't change that often anyway. Thoughts? ←Humus sapiens←ну? 08:18, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Are Jewish Americans also European Americans?

There is a discussion at Category talk:Jewish Americans over whether that category should be categorized under Category:European Americans. -Willmcw 23:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion

Please comment: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Religion#interreligious --Striver 05:11, 11 December 2005 (UTC)


Not that I'm calling anyone names. Could someone please have a look at Mamzer? My questions are on Talk:Mamzer. - Jmabel | Talk 18:48, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

This has now been rewritten, apparently as a translation from Hebrew. I've done my best to clean up the English, but the resulting article is still a mess. A review by someone more familiar with halakha than I am would be in order. - Jmabel | Talk 04:59, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
What else needs to be done? Jon513 19:44, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Confession of Faith

Should there be an entry (at the very least a disambig link) for Shema Yisrael in Confession of Faith? I think our Muslim friends would also want to add an entry there. ←Humus sapiens←ну? 01:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

If anything in Judaism qualifies it would be Ani Maamin based on the Rambam. However I think the whole premise of a confession of faith is that it is more formal and dogmatic than anything Judaism has. Some formal statements of Reform and Conservative Judaism would also be candidates but weak candidates like Ani Maamin or the Shma because none of them have the formal dogmatic element. Frikle 10:38, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Tikkun olam

Neutrality has done pretty much a complete rewrite on Tikkun olam, including removing all previous external links. I don't have the expertise to say much about this, but probably a major rewrite like this deserves review from someone who does. -- Jmabel | Talk 04:39, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I haven't thorougly looked at it, but I've made some edits. Yes, Neutrality's edits made it clearer than some of the esoteric descriptions that existed on the previous incarnation. I'll look at the external links some time later. jnothman talk 05:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I was particularly surprised to see Gershom Scholem removed from the list of references. In my little reading on esoteric Judaism, I've usually found Scholem useful and clear. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:29, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I hadn't done anything with the external links etc. Now I've just included most of them again, but the references / further reading needed to be qualified as only texts related to the term's use in Kabbalah. jnothman talk 02:53, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, looks good. -- Jmabel | Talk 22:54, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


Please see Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion#Template:Hebrewterm. JFW | T@lk 19:27, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Jewish book censorship and Judaica publishers

Coming back to the Natan Slifkin controversy, this is a whole area that can be expanded: Does anyone know if there is currently a Wikipedia article that deals with books that have been banned, censored, or burned over the centuries in Jewish communities?

Also, is there currently a general article about Judaica publishers (not related to bans)? If there is, I can't find it. We already have an article on Artscroll, if we add Feldheim and one or two more there would be enought for more than a stub.Dovi 07:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Dovi: See Category:Jewish texts, it's the best we have for the present. As for "books that have been banned, censored, or burned", hmmm, that should open up a whole Pandora's Box don't you think? IZAK 07:42, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure that censorship has to be a Pandora's box, if we stick to facts. I think it's worth noting the practice of displaying a congratulatory letter from a respected authority at the front of a Jewish religious book. That seems very comparable to nihil obstat in Catholicism. --Hoziron 15:08, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! I hope we can come to some clear, pertinent resolution on Natan Slifkin with amicability.Dovi 07:51, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Naa. Let's just leave the Zoo rabbi languish in his cage...IZAK

Seeking feedback and suggestions

I have created a new article with a title that may need changing. Right now it is called Thou shalt not give Hitler posthumous victories. As this nears completion there's a question about which of several potential redirects ought to be the primary title. Would 614th commandment, 614th mitzvah or some other title be more appropriate? Also, please suggest appropriate categories. If this merits a location on the Judaism portal template then where on the template should it belong?

Content and NPOV suggestions are also welcome. I've done my best to cover this sensitive subject in a balanced and tasteful way. Regards, Durova 18:08, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Striking two possibilities per feedback received elsewhere. Would Do not give Hitler posthumous victories or Hitler and posthumous victories be more appropriate? Durova 04:00, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Japanese WikiProject

Japanese WikiProject Judaism "ja:Wikipedia:ウィキプロジェクト ユダヤ教" was opened. Please join in! --Sheynhertzגעשׁ״ך 20:06, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

New userboxes

Hey, I thought I'd let you guys know about {{user Jew}}, which is no different then {{user religion|Jews and Judaism sidebar}} but can be used in Babel templates; and {{user kosher}}, which tries to emulate the blue and red color scheme of those kosher labels. --HereToHelp (talk) 19:32, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

A separate {{User Shabbat}} would be useful to explain the absence of wiki-presence. ←Humus sapiens ну? 02:31, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

There is also {{User Yeshiva}} for all who are currently enrolled in a yeshiva or Jewish seminary. -- Olve 16:21, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Other pages

see also:

Sheynhertz 23:36, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


See Category:Anti-Semitic peopleHumus sapiens←ну? 10:17, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Fiery Furnace

I'd like to try to clean up and improve the pages about the story of the fiery furnace. The story of the fiery furnance has a lot of importance in the Jewish and Christian traditions, and had has a lot of cultural impact; Wikipedia ought to have better information about it. I've started by poking at the pages and suggesting some merges; I'd appreciate any help from project members on whatever relating to this subject, but specifically to help avoid sectarian bias in the articles and include a lot of solid information about many perspectives. Please leave any comments on the talk page of fiery furnace. Thanks! -- Tetraminoe 14:00, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Call for help on Israel Shamir

I've been trying to copyedit Israel Shamir, but I honestly don't know thing one about this guy, and the chief contributor to the article pretty clearly doesn't know much about wiki markup. Personally, I'd like to see the guy deleted, and possibly the article as well, but it appears that he's marginally noteworthy so the latter at least is unfeasible. (I'll contact my people in the vast world-wide Zionist/Jewish/American/Right-wing conspiracy to see about the former, of course...) Meanwhile, if anyone knows anything about this guy, or is willing to add the article to their watchlist, any assistance with this article would be greatly appreciated... Tomertalk 02:32, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Copyright status of Jewish Encyclopedia images

The following was posted on the Help Desk#Copyright status of Jewish Encyclopedia images. I thought it might be of interest to the project. jnothman talk 12:49, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

There is a group of images in Category:Jewish Encyclopedia images that are from the Jewish Encyclopedia, but they came from I know the Jewish Encyclopedia is in the public domain but is the material at that web site PD as well?

Their TOS is pretty clear: 3.2 You may search, retrieve, display, download, and print content from the Service solely for your personal, internal use, and shall make no other use of the content without the express written permission of and the copyright owner (or its authorized agent) of such content. You will not modify, publish, distribute, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content, in whole or in part, found on the Service. Further, you will not engage in any systematic downloading or other activity directed towards any of the content, in whole or in part, found on the Service that would create any electronic data base or archive containing such content [2]. Seems to me if that statement has any legal weight then Wikipedia shouldn't be using those images.

This also brings up a general question. Can scans or photographs of PD works be copyrighted?--Pucktalk 04:46, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Seems to be no, according to Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.. - Akamad 05:37, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I would assume than applies to scans as well. In which case it would seem can't legitimately put a copyright emblem on their scans of pictures from the Jewish Encyclopedia. I bring all this up because one of the images on the category page is mislabeled--it's actually a duplicate of another--and I wanted to replace it with the correct one. I just wanted to make sure all my jots and tittles are in place.--Pucktalk 06:26, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Are the Jewish Encyclopedia and essentially the same source, and are they in the public domain? I'm asking this since I'm doing minor formatting work on Amidah (led there by Project Punctuation, and it seems that about 80% of the article is from and uncredited. ArglebargleIV 18:55, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

The first paragraph of that web site explains that it is so, and that the encyclopedia is public domain. jnothman talk 23:02, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Ah. Guess I've got to be smarter about checking that kind of stuff. Thank you! ArglebargleIV 01:21, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Minyan Shivyoni Hilchati - please weigh in. JFW | T@lk 01:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

question regarding membership

I have been adding some stuff about the history of Judaism in Germany and Austria and the people, and plan to continue (see for example Stadttempel and Marcel Prawy. Although my contributions will be quite limited from their scope, can I join this Project as well? Gryffindor 17:20, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

You don't need to be Jewish to join. Nobody controls membership of WikiProjects. Feel free to join! JFW | T@lk 23:00, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Biblical criticism

I've had some nasty run-ins with FDuffy (talk · contribs), a Biblical criticism enthusiast. I have found an immensely useful resource in dealing with these views: a number of articles in "Challenge" by Carmell and Domb. A wife confused for a sister still needs NPOV editing, but I have added a dissenting view that makes a mockery of the DH waffle.

I've also been in touch with Prof David Gotlieb, who recommended this and this. JFW | T@lk 11:48, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Tu Bishvat

Has anyone looked into the issue raised at Talk:Tu_Bishvat#Copyvio.3F? (Whoever does, please leave an appropriate remark on that talk page). - Jmabel | Talk 03:18, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


The article Amitz is a mess. Anyone in the Atlanta area know anything about this club? Any ideas for how to reduce the number of red links (notability would be a good guideline, but I know nothing about these folks, nor where to draw the line on notability for this subject. The article has a bit of a POV problem, and could use some categorization... Any help with it would be greatly appreciated. Tomertalk 19:33, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


I'm requesting an article on the Blech. As a Christian, I've never encountered one, but I know vaguely it's something used to keep food warm for Shabbat. There's nothing about it at Jewish cuisine, or anywhere else I can find. Thanks! Angr/talk 12:35, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Derived from the German/Yiddish word for "tin", a blech is a sheet of metal placed over an open fire or other source of heat to enable observant Jews to keep food warm. It is a consequence of the halakha (Jewish law) that fire can only be used if it is covered, presumably to avoid poking or manipulating the fire (which are violations of Shabbat law).
I'll look for a cite (Shulkhan Arukh O.C. 306 will have the relevant material). JFW | T@lk 12:50, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't about Yiddish, but in German Blech doesn't mean "tin" exactly (which is Zinn) but rather "a sheet of metal" or in technical contexts "sheet metal". Angr/talk 13:50, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Ah, so it's even more to the point! I must have confused it with the Dutch word "blik", which means both sheet metal and tin (Sn). JFW | T@lk 13:53, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
This would probally work better in an article cooking_on_shabbos, but that is a rather large undertaking even just to summarize the laws. Jon513 14:50, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Please don't choose such a bad name, like what those chabad folks did (referring to 'laws of cooking on shabbos' by Dubov), cooking on shabbat is forbiden. A better title would be what is not cooking on shabbat, or something along that idea. ems 15:08, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi Angr and Jon: Have you read Shabbat#Prohibited activities and 39 categories of activity as an intro? A "blech" is placed on top of an oven so that no pots/pans should be directly over a flame (as mentioned by JFW above.) The prohibition that the blech is trying to protect the Sabbath-observant Jew from is from kindling/making a "Fire" #37 on the stove for cooking purposes(by lowering or raising a flame) as well as to prevent any inadverdant cooking (a derivative of "Baking" #11). It's not "cooking on Shabbat" that is the subject is actually the laws of Shabbat, see Laws of Shabbat - a 37 part self-study course --> here's cooking and baking. There is lot's of info on the web, have you tried doing a Google search for Blech Shabbat etc? IZAK 15:02, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
It isn't so much that I have no idea what a blech is as that I would like for there to be a Wikipedia article about them. Preferably written by someone who knows more about them than I do (like someone who has perhaps actually seen one in real life!). But I do think an article about Shabbat traditions or Ashkenazic Shabbat traditions might be nice, and would provide a place for the blech to be provided a context. Angr/talk 15:16, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Further reading took me to Gefilte fish, where there is a reference to "the three traditional Sabbath meals". I didn't know there were three traditional Sabbath meals. That's something else that could be discussed in an article like Shabbat traditions. Angr/talk 15:26, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Angr, a blech can be any number of things, from a highly decorated burner cover to a very unglamorous scrap of metal basically looking like a burnt cookie sheet. I think perhaps there's room to make an article on it, but it's doubtful it's going to fit into anyone's passionate article-writing interests anytime soon. That said, I'll go ahead and make a stub for it; whether or not doing so will spur anyone to turn it into a FAC is another matter... Tomertalk 04:28, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I started the stub. It's presently an orphan article tho. Tomertalk 04:54, 15 February 2006 (UTC)