Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics

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WikiProject Linguistics (Rated Project-class)
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Welcome to the talk page for WikiProject Linguistics. This is the hub of the Wikipedian linguist community; like the coffee machine in the office, this page is where people get together, share news, and discuss what they are doing. Feel free to ask questions, make suggestions, and keep everyone updated on your progress. New talk goes at the bottom, and remember to sign and date your comments by typing four tildes (~~~~). Thanks!

Draft:Comparison and Comparison (grammar)[edit]

I have started Draft:Comparison, and in the course of expanding it found that Comparison (grammar) is in poor shape as far as sourcing goes. Any help improving these would be appreciated. Cheers! bd2412 T 19:13, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

There is also an article at Comparative, which might need improvement, or perhaps merging into one of the articles BD2412 is working on. (There used to be (c. 2016) still another article at Superlative, but I merged it to Comparison (grammar).) Cnilep (talk) 23:46, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Contradiction in Help:IPA/Inuktitut[edit]

Bot for WP:WPENGLISH[edit]

I've made a request at at WP:Bot requests#Tag talk pages of articles about English with Template:WikiProject English language to have the articles within the project scope bot-tagged, since doing it by had or even with AWB might be an enormous amount of effort. I'm not sure if BOTREQ requires a showing of support before action is taken to implement a bot, but I get the sense that this might be the case.  — SMcCandlish ¢ 😼  09:55, 23 January 2018 (UTC)


We've now got a template for formatting interlinear glosses: {{interlinear}}. At this stage, it will be really helpful to receive some feedback on its overall structure, like the parameters used or the various default behaviours (for example with respect to the presence of free translations, or the formatting of glossing abbreviations). All these things will be difficult to change once the template becomes more widely used. Your input is welcome at Template talk: interlinear. Bug reports or feature requests will be appreciated as well. – Uanfala (talk) 17:53, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Beijing dialect and Beijing Mandarin[edit]

Input at Talk:Beijing dialect#Comparison of Beijing Mandarin and Beijing dialect would be appreciated. – Joe (talk) 17:21, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Help with IPA[edit]

A user added alternative pronunciation of a separate syllable next to IPA in opening sentence of Israel (changed from "Israel (/ˈɪzrəl/)" to "Israel (/ˈɪzriəl, -r-/)"). I'm not sure this is how it works. The discussion is at Talk:Israel#Pronunciation. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 11:45, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Links to DAB pages[edit]

I am a WikiGnome, and perhaps waste too much of my life fixing links to DAB pages. I have collected links to several linguistics-related articles which contain {{disambiguation needed}} tags and which I dare not try to fix. Can any of you experts help resolve these problems? Search for "disam" in the articles listed below. If you solve a problem, take off the tag and post {{done}} here.

There may be another dozen or so links like these, which I will find during my rounds, and which I hope you experts can fix. Yrs, Narky Blert (talk) 22:45, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

My brother discovers a new grammar rule[edit]

Okay, so perhaps this is not the appropriate place to ask this, but I am asking anyway. My brother recently "discovered" a rule in English. I am wondering if this is commonly known thing. It goes like this:

"The rule applies to pairs of two-syllable words that are spelled the same (homographic), are pronounced differently, where one word is a noun and the other is a verb.
The rule is "The noun accents on the first syllable, the verb accents on the second syllable."
Examples: reject, record, rebel, repeat, rerun, replay, redo, refuse, project, object, defect, produce,console, convert, contract, (undo ?)
Counter examples: I can find none."

Just for the record my brother is a mathematician and economist, but since our mother passed away he has had to pick up the mantle of family grammarian. Thanks, Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 05:59, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

I don't know how commonly known this thing is to English speakers (after all, grammars of natural languages are immensely complex and native speakers go by perfectly well without the need to be aware of it all), but it's certainly common knowledge among learners of English past the intermediate stage. As far as I'm aware, this rule affects mostly vocabulary of Latin/French origin (though there are exceptions like "uplift"), and usually it's the verb that is historically earlier. There are also pairs of disyllabic words without a change in stress ("access"), and pairs of longer words with a similar stress shift ("àttribute" vs. "to attrìbute"). Anyway, English is a really well studied language, so it's unlikely that someone can discover a hitherto unknown rule unless they're looking at an extremely obscure variety of English (like the jargon employed by workers in the colliers of southern Alabama), or it's a case of an extremely subtle phenomenon that arises in particularly complicated syntactic or semantic contexts. Still, even if the rules are widely known among linguists, it doesn't mean that they have been easy to figure out. For a native speaker of a language, it's generally pretty hard to become aware of even a tiny fraction of the rules that they implicitly use in every utterance. Discovering these rules is challenging, but fun, and I'm sure there's plenty more in store for your brother. – Uanfala (talk) 00:53, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
Thank you Uanfala, but please do not encourage my brother. Life is hard enough as it is. Carptrash (talk) 17:52, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
Wikipedia already has an article about this if you're curious: Initial-stress-derived noun. Umimmak (talk) 01:00, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
One of the wonders of wikipedia, @Umimmak: is that if I go to the right place, in this case HERE, I can learn, or someone will point me, to just about anything. I will pass this link on. And if there is anything you'd like to know about architectural sculpture . . . . . . . .............. Carptrash (talk) 17:56, 3 March 2018 (UTC)


Can anyone look at the recent edits to the article Dakhini? There is a "The Legend" section with poetic descriptions, population of "Kafir" speakers and other changes that seem problematic to me. utcursch | talk 16:44, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

I've removed most of them. I've left the "Legacy" section untouched though: some of it is sourced and the rest of it might as well turn out to be alright, but I think it needs a closer look from someone more familiar with the topic. – Uanfala (talk) 19:54, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

LoveVanPersie's disruptions[edit]

There's a thread on Administrators' Noticeboard concerning LoveVanPersie's disruptions. He's posted over 50 incorrect transcriptions in the last 4 months. Please join the discussion if you have anything to contribute. Thank you. Mr KEBAB (talk) 02:13, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Proposed change to "Affect (linguistics)" page[edit]

I think there is a mistake on the "Affect (linguistics)" page, in the section where it discusses Korean.

Specifically, where it says:

맛있잖아 Masi-ittjianha (lit. "It's not delicious," but connotes "It's delicious, no?")

There are two problems. First, the "–잖아" (–jana) ending is used to indicate something the speaker thinks the listener is (or should be) aware of already[1][2], not as a tag question (as the original writer seems to have intended). Second, the adjective "맛다" (masitda) means the food is delicious, not that it is not. (I think the original writer meant to use "맛다" (mateopda) which would mean "not delicious"). So the meaning of what the original writer wrote is actually "It is delicious, you know." To say, "It's delicious, no?" (a tag question seeking confirmation), it should be "맛있지?" (masitji) because "–지" is the ending used in Korean for that purpose.[3][4]

Additionally, the Romanization the original writer used is confusing. I've put corrections below:

맛있어요 "Masi-issoyo" should be "masisseoyo"
맛있군요 "Masi-ittgunyo!" should be "masitgunyo!"
맛있잖아 "Masi-ittjianha" should be "masitjana" (but when corrected to "맛있지?" as above, it would be "masitji?")
맛이 없다 "Masi-eopda" should be "mas-i eopda"[5] (talk) 04:39, 25 March 2018 (UTC) (talk) 04:46, 25 March 2018 (UTC)Em

  1. ^ "Lesson 90: The meaning of ~잖아(요)". How to Study Korean. Retrieved 25 March 2018. 
  2. ^ Korean: A Comprehensive Grammar. Routledge. 2011. p. 377. ISBN 978-0-415-60385-0. 
  3. ^ "Lesson 93: ~지 and ~죠". How to Study Korean. Retrieved 25 March 2018. 
  4. ^ Korean: A Comprehensive Grammar. Routledge. 2011. p. 379. ISBN 978-0-415-60385-0. 
  5. ^ "Revised Romanization of Korean: Transcription rules". Wikipedia. 
I have copied this comment to Talk:Affect (linguistics). Editors interested in editing the page are likely to see it there. Cnilep (talk) 07:48, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
Thank you! (talk) Em

Gay lisp article -- what to title it[edit]

At Talk:Gay lisp, we need some opinions on what to title the article. One recent move discussion section was made before I made this one. The article is likely to go through a WP:Requested moves discussion. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:10, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

More links to DAB pages[edit]

I have collected several more linguistics-related articles, all about technical issues, which have been tagged {{disambiguation needed}} and where the ambiguous link needs expert attention. Search for "disam" (ignoring any hatnote); and if you fix a problem, take the dab tag off and mark it here as {{done}}.

@Narky Blert: It seems to me that ISO 639:kuq probably should point to the disambiguation page. According to SIL International, who keep the ISO codes, the language which the code refers to is variously known as Karipuna, Jau-Navo, and Kagwahiva/Kawahib. In other words, at least two of the Wikipedia articles disambiguated are proper targets of the ISO code. The problem, of course, is that pointing ISO 639:kuq to the name Karipuna language (disambiguation) would create a double redirect. Cnilep (talk) 00:50, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
@Cnilep: why can't these people fit themselves into tidy classifications?
A solution could be, to create a WP:SIA page for those ISO:kuq languages, separate from the DAB page, and to point ISO 639:kuq at it. What would be a good name for such a page? Would Karipuna language (kuq) work? Something like that would both get round the current WP:INTDAB problem, and (more importantly) point readers directly towards what they might be looking for without confusion with ISO:639 kgm or ISO:639 kmv or whatever. Narky Blert (talk) 01:54, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
A set index is probably the way to go. I suppose some version of 'Karipuna language' is best for the index title, possibly 'Karipuna language (ISO 639 kuq)' or something like that. What do other members of this WikiProject suggest? Cnilep (talk) 02:57, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
I have WP:BOLDly gone ahead and done it. Karipuna language contains the information it always did, but now also has a SA link to the SIA page Karipuna language (kuq). I have edited ISO 639:kuq to link to that SIA page. Redirects are cheap, so adding other plausible links into that SIA page would not be costly. Narky Blert (talk) 23:56, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks in advance. Narky Blert (talk) 22:35, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

A link to a DAB page[edit]

See Template talk:Native name#A link to a DAB page. Narky Blert (talk) 22:39, 8 April 2018 (UTC)