Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Martial arts/Kickboxing task force

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Kickboxing task force project for 2018: Updating the notability requirements[edit]

Shall we finally update WP:NKICK? Everyone participating in the task force or anyone else who generally follows kickboxing should probably understand the current notability requirements are, and have been for years, completely unrepresentative of top level kickboxing athletes.

My suggestion, from prior discussion on this page, that didn't seem to have too much opposition:

-fought for a world title of a major promotion (K-1, Glory, Kunlun Fight), or
-been ranked in the world top 10 by a major, preferably two, independent publication that meets the definition of a reliable source, or
-been a Lumpinee or Rajadamnern champion, or
(we could change the date, but for now)
-before 1 June 2018, fought for a world title of an organization or a promotion (WMC, ISKA, WAKO-Pro, It's Showtime, WKN, WBC Muaythai, PKA, WKA).


This way the change wouldn't lead to any deletion of prior pages, would just improve things going forward.

For the eligible/justifiable title of a major promotion list I guess we could keep a door open for at least Glory of Heroes and Enfusion, If there is any demand for additional promotions being on that list. Let's see which direction they develop towards early 2018 and assess again before finally updating the notability requirements. Just K-1, Glory, Kunlun and top 10s could be a bit limiting?

Glory of Heroes just crowned Qiu Jianliang as their first champion outside of the WLF structure. The tournament final field was Qiu Jianliang, Dylan Salvador, Giga Chikadze and Aleksei Ulianov so fairly good competition.

Enfusion has had pretty good competition in their "leagues" and if those started feeding more into their title picture it could be quite decent. As of right now though, there has also been fairly random people out of nowhere getting title opportunities.

I'll ping at least the listed task force participants now, and even again before any change is made so there should be no surprises as there is ample time to achieve some kind of consensus. Or perhaps again there is little activity in the discussion of bringing the notability requirements to any kind of level that even remotely makes sense. I'll be here regularly debating anyone about what the requirements should be. If there is no one to debate I'll assume consensus and proceed to update the requirements to the suggested ones above in June.

@PRehse:, @KINGFEDORQc:, @Mfnuf:, @Master Sun Tzu:, @Frenchcafe:, @Marajade75:, @Jimmy Peters:, @Yappakoredesho:, @JMichael22: thoughts? ShadessKB (talk) 19:16, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

In My opinion the Glory and Kunlun top 10 rankings(from their website pages) should be considered as notable also,they are the two biggest and arguably most important kickboxing organizations we have right now.
Also it is time to change the notability of kickboxing organizations here,lets be honest,WAKO, ISKA didnt represent the pinnacle of the sport since the early 2000´s.
Kunlun, Wu Lin Feng, K-1, Glory, Glory of Heroes, Krush, W5, Enfusion is where almost all of the kickboxing best and most notable fighters compete and not on WKN, ISKA and WAKO anymore
in my opinion the notability should also be given to fighters who have "x" numbers of fights under a notable organization(some of listed above),like it is for MMA requirements.
in fact there is a lot of fighters who are notable and cant have his wikipedia page made because of this old requirements,it is time to change in my humble opinion. Mfnuf (talk) 5 January
I don't think much of various promotions own rankings, but Kunlun needs to be added and haven't seen anyone oppose it. The standing of the organizations is seriously something I'd like to see anyone attempt to defend here. I feel like one of the worse things in kickboxing is the way the various organizations handle themselves and they are being rewarded on wikipedia for some reason. There's no hurry but I really would like more feedback on this discussion. i'm not letting this notability reform(!) die down due to inactivity this time around. The notability will be updated so give your thoughts please! ShadessKB (talk) 23:07, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
I wont comment on which organizations should be included as worthy at this point but we do have a choice to lean closer to MMA or boxing criteria. I prefer the latter and am strongly against using the promotions own rankings - the bias is just to strong and obvious. I also think care must be taken to limit the number of organizations whose titles count - even five is too much.PRehse (talk) 23:26, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Also I was wondering if it should be mandatory for all professional kickboxers to have their fight records I noticed a lot of fighters especially female fighters don't have records of who they fought. I would like to see a massive effort to correct this. Dwanyewest (talk) 04:18, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

That'd be nice but never going to happen with a system like wikipedia when it's relatively so complicated to add anything.ShadessKB (talk) 21:18, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
One problem is that I'm not aware of a central storehouse for kickboxing records comparable to Sherdog for MMA and boxrec for boxing. Kickboxing has had too many organizations and levels to make it easy to obtain good records. The discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chandet Sorpantrey shows the problems that are encountered trying to verify records.
Regarding other topics in this thread I think it's generally a bad idea to rely on any organization's rankings to determine notability. I've seen fighters unranked by all but one of boxing's major organizations but one and they'd be given a title fight by that one organization. Boxing orgs are not known for their honesty and I think it's bad form to blindly assume any organization's rankings are free from bias, corruption, and dealings (both self and double). I do agree that the organization list can be updated and would suggest that organizations considered top tier (to use the MMA terminology) should come with dates. I'm not involved with kickboxers and the organizations like I once was, so I will bow out of the discussion about which ones are the best. Papaursa (talk) 00:35, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

We are approaching June so I'll just quickly ping the task force participants one again for any comments. @PRehse:, @KINGFEDORQc:, @Mfnuf:, @Master Sun Tzu:, @Frenchcafe:, @Marajade75:, @Jimmy Peters:, @Yappakoredesho:, @Dwanyewest:

My current suggestion, slightly reworded from the opening post:
-fought for a world title of a major promotion (K-1 Japan, Glory, Kunlun Fight), or
-been ranked in the world top 10 by a major, preferably two, independent publication that meets the definition of a reliable source, or
-been a Lumpinee or Rajadamnern champion, or
-prior to 1 June 2018, fought for a world title of an organization or a promotion (WMC, ISKA, WAKO-Pro, It's Showtime, WKN, WBC Muaythai, PKA, WKA).

There's still on and off more random events that crown "real" K-1 champions in Korea and Germany for example so being slightly more accurate I'd like to define it being the titles by the Japanese arm of K-1 being meaningful.

Honestly I'd like at least a 4th promotion in there but there isn't a completely clear one to add at this time. Glory of Heroes can be pretty good but they have also become much more inactive this year. Some Enfusion title contenders are pretty random too so adding them as 4th would open doors for more regional but in reality non notable fighters suddenly being wiki notable. Any suggestions? ShadessKB (talk) 20:45, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Well, inspired by the boxing notability:
-Fought for a world title of a major promotion (K-1 Japan, Glory, Kunlun Fight), or
-After 1 June 2018, has won a regular/full (non-interim) world title (Enfusion, Glory of Heroes), or
-Been ranked in the world top 10 by a major, preferably two, independent publication that meets the definition of a reliable source, or
-Been a Lumpinee or Rajadamnern champion, or
-Prior to 1 June 2018, fought for a world title of an organization or a promotion (WMC, ISKA, WAKO-Pro, It's Showtime, WKN, WBC Muaythai, PKA, WKA).


Some thoughts on adding Enfusion and Glory of Heroes, and just the title holders and not fighters who fought and lost:
-Enfusion brings some more women's titles
-there will still be fewer orgs/promotions than before and GoH specially doesn't even have many titles. Comparing to the current ones like WMC/ISKA/WAKO/WKN who have a lot more titles. So overall there will be fewer but more real life notable fighter passing the wikipedia notability requirements.ShadessKB (talk) 23:57, 5 May 2018 (UTC)


I think would be great to Add Enfusion and ACB-KB title(fought for or won) and tournament Winners

Enfusion really stepped up from being an Local organization mainly focused on Dutch scene fighters to increasing much more high level matchups counting with fighters around the world since 2017.

For example we had the Enfusion 72kg tournament last year that had a lot of notable names as Nordin Ben Moh,Mohamed Khamal,Superbon Banchamek,Jordan Watson and the winner that rise up as a good prospect Endy Semeleer

-their 85kg league also continues on with good names As filip Verlinden,Ulrik Bokeme, Jorge Loren,Mehdi Bouanane and Ibrahim El Boustati(well,kind of...)

-The matchups on last inclueed notable big names as jomthong,Ilias Bulaid,Zakkaria Zouggary,Mohammed Khamal,Tayfun Ozcan,Luis Tavares,Jahfarr Wilnis

-Some of their current champions are worldwide high level(Ilias Bulaid,Tayfun Ozcan, Luis Tavares...).


At 2018 they already started bringing longtime legends Andy Souwer, Albert Kraus and Buakaw,they are planning some good events for this year including andy souwer fighting enriko Kehl in germany.


For ACB-KB, ACB is more known for their MMA organization but the Kickboxing org of them are starting to make waves on worldwide scene.

Similar to Enfusion,they started to really go for it on 2017, with events in France,China,USA and Russia counting with names like Allazov, Alexander Stetsurenko, Eddy Nait Slimani, Yury Bessmertny, Igor Bugaenko, Hicham el Gaoui, Tsotne Rogava, Hao Guanghua, Sitthichai, Askerov, Perviz Abdullayev, Freddy Kemayo, Samy Sana, Darryl Sichtman, Mohammed Diaby,Vladislav TuinoV...

Especially in the last Event that was their best one,counting with 4 title fights where all of them were pretty notable matchups Alexander Stetsurenko vs Jonathan Oliveira, Perviz Abdullayev Islam Baibatyrov, Tsotne Rogava vs Jonatha Diniz and especially Artem levin vs Igor Bugaenko(the two best 85kg guys outside Glory)

Its time to have them as a notable organization also.Mfnuf (talk) 5 May

Any reliable evidence for this man?[edit]

Steve Vick (kickboxer) is a supposed to be a 1994 ISKA world champion does anyone know of any reliable information regarding the man? Dwanyewest (talk) 12:18, 28 April 2018 (UTC)