Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorcycle racing

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WikiProject Motorcycle racing
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British speedway articles[edit]

I find the way we have organized articles on British speedway very confusing and lacking in logic. The league system in Britain has changed several times, often with the same name being used for different leagues, and they seem very jumbled here. As an example there have been three 'National League's - a national (top flight) league in the mid-20th century, the renamed second division of the British League from 1975 (sometimes called the 'New National League'), and the renamed Conference League that is currently active. Three different leagues, all confused into one in this encyclopedia. From the formation of the British League in 1965 there is yet more confusion as it went from a two-division league to a three-division league when the Elite league was formed. The Premier league then went from being the top division to the second division, so in many articles gets equated with the 'New National league' and the old second division although in reality it is not the same league. We really need to separate these things out into distinct articles. Naming is another issue. The Elite League is called the Elite League, not as far as I can tell the 'Speedway Elite League' and virtually every article here on speedway competitions has been prefixed with the word 'Speedway' irrespective of whether the competition was actually named that way - some form of inappropriate disambiguation it seems (see also Speedway British League which should and could live quite happily at British League until disambiguation is needed). I would really like to sort this mess out but as it would involve considerable change I anticipate that it may ruffle a few feathers. If anyone has any thoughts I would be happy to take them on board. Thanks. --Michig (talk) 10:06, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't have any knowledge of speedway, but thought I'd respond so that you would have some feedback. Regarding the naming issue, I was going to suggest calling the article Elite League (speedway), but it lives there already! Equally, British League (speedway) could be used. I think the term British League is quite generic so you're probably going to need some disambiguation one way or another, even in the season pages. Readro (talk) 22:53, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
The Elite League is the only one I think that is currently named in the standard way. --Michig (talk) 06:02, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

MotoGP riders[edit]

I'd like you to pay attention to Alexxander3000's new pages about every rider who raced in MotoGP in these years: I think these pages are only a copy of motogp.com statistics, they lack of prose and they've got a lot of formal mistakes (like absence of categories and persondata templates, links to disambiguation pages like FTR and Suter) and also content mistakes, as they don't take into account World Superbike or Supersport participations, et cetera. I think that it's just a way to make all links blue, but in my opinion it's not the right way. 79.21.163.253 (talk) 09:48, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

It's not ideal that we have all these articles that are just stubs, but the riders pass notability and as such the author is not exactly doing anything wrong by starting an article. Yes, there are issues with them but the only way we can resolve them is by adding to the articles. I've been trying to do this when I can but it's quite a lot of work. Readro (talk) 21:10, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

2012 Spanish motorcycle Grand Prix[edit]

Just a heads up that the 2012 Spanish motorcycle Grand Prix article has had a notability tag placed on it by User:Mtking and will likely be put to WP:AfD. He has succeeded in destroying a large amount of Mixed martial arts coverage on wikipedia and is currently trying to get an ATP Tour tennis tournament deleted. It looks like Moto GP is next. Cheers. Jevansen (talk) 06:04, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

I had removed the tag twice yesterday, also adding some sources, but I don't know what to do to make the event "notable". Gpmat (talk) 07:24, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Anybody knows which are the "secondary sources" needed? I can't understand which news I have to put, because it seems that Crash.net, Autosport, BBC Sport and MotoGP are not enough. I removed the tag for the third time but he's insisting. Gpmat (talk) 08:34, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Mate I'd stop removing that tag if I were you, it's not going to end well. The references you have listed are all primary sources. Considering the Spanish GP took place just one month ago, I'm really not sure what secondary source would exist, regardless of whether or not the event is "notable". Perhaps you could get Mtking to explain. Jevansen (talk) 09:12, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
That's ok, but I'm not going to waste more time in situations like this. Gpmat (talk) 10:23, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

As far as I know, primary sources would be the MotoGP website and teams websites. Journalists from media like AP, AFP and Autosport are secondary sources. --NaBUru38 (talk) 16:40, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

'WikiProject: BMW Motorcycle' Proposal[edit]

This new WikiProject would have the primary aim of creating and developing a page for each model (both old and new) of BMW motorcycle produced in the company's history. This would enable a highly valuable resource to be for both enthusiasts and restorers such as myself to be created, where extensive information about specifcations, development, modifications and the history behind could be found. Not only this, but it would encourage motorcycle enthusiasts, who would not normally have used Wikipedia, to both use its resources and to contribute to the project's pages, becoming part of the motorcycle fraternity which would be the driving force behind this community. Once this task has been completed of English Wikipedia, I, with help of other editors and members of the project, would like to then translate the pages into other languages (particularly German, in order to make the resources available in Germany, where many BMW enthusiasts and restorers are concentrated), and so contribute to the wider Wikipedia group. The WikiProject, would also contribute large numbers of pictures to Wikimedia, as part of its galleries.

In order to promote the group and encourage the growth of the articles in our scope, the WikiProject is not only being promoted to present editors who are currently active editing articles on BMW itself and motorcycles in general, but also notify groups such as the Vintage Motor Cycle Club and the BMW Club in the U.K., which would encourage members (20,000+) to contribute some of the extensive knowledge of the topic which is demonstrated by members of these clubs. Members of the WikiProject who are active in clubs outside of the U.K., would also be encouraged to promote the Project to their respective society, making the WikiProject multinational. Current, more experienced editors, would then help the 'new boys' to use Wikipedia and share their knowledge, which has often been built up during the course of a lifetime of passion for BMW motorcycles. This would enable us, together, to produce a resource which will help generations long into the future and help preserve and catalogue BMW's legacy in the motorcycle industry.

Currently, there are no such WikiProjects which would be dedicated solely to the BMW motorcycles (not even BMW itself) and the development of pages on each individual model, in opposed to the current situation where some models are briefly referred on a BMW related page. This WikiProject would allow this community of people who are highly knowledgeable about this specific topic to develop articles in extreme depth, something not possible with larger groups, which could then be published on the world wide web, available gratis, as with all Wikipedia articles, to the public.

If successful, the idea could serve as a blueprint and be replicated for other motorcycle manufacturers.

Please visit the project proposal page, in order to see more details of the project and to join. Any questions or queries can be posted either on the proposal page, or I can be contacted directly on my talk page.

Many thanks and any help from fellow enthusiasts on this project, would be greatly appreciated.

DAFMM (talk) 15:35, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Kawasaki Motors Racing[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Kawasaki Motors Racing has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. DH85868993 (talk) 14:12, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Name of the Austin MotoGP round[edit]

MotoGP seems to have "Americas" as the title for the Austin race. On the other hand, Wikipedia article's title is still "Texas". If the article isn't renamed, should the "Americas" title be mentioned in the prose, similarly to "Grand Prix of Jersey" in the article about F1's Grand Prix of America? --August90 (talk) 12:12, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

MotoGP - Moto2 - Moto3. Why not seperate pages?[edit]

I was wondering why the MotoGP, Moto2 and Moto3 are all on the same page and don't have seperate ones. Formula One doesn't do it with its GP2 and GP3 series. TollHRT52 (talk) 13:53, 3 November 2012 (AEDST)

In this case we'd have five pages (for classes 50, 125, 250, 350, 500) for each season from 1962 to 1982, I think it's not a great idea, and all classes belong to the "FIM Road Racing World Championship" and the regulations are about all classes. 87.13.4.245 (talk) 10:32, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Moto2/Moto3/125cc round numbering in season summary articles[edit]

I'd like to question the round numbering in the Moto2 and Moto3/125cc Participants tables in the 2010 to 2012 Grand Prix motorcycle racing season summary articles. Consider the first couple of rows the Moto2 Participants table in 2012 Grand Prix motorcycle racing season:

Team Constructor Motorcycle No. Rider Rounds
Came IodaRacing Project FTR FTR Moto M212 3 Italy Simone Corsi 1–9, 11–18
GP Team Switzerland Kalex Kalex Moto2 4 Switzerland Randy Krummenacher 1–9, 11–13, 17–18
20 Switzerland Jesko Raffin 14–16
JiR Moto2 Motobi TSR TSR6 5 France Johann Zarco 1–9, 11–18
57 Brazil Eric Granado 6–9, 11–12, 14–18

I think the "Rounds" column for Corsi should contain "1-17" not "1-9, 11-18". I understand why it has been written as "1-9, 11-18", i.e. to make the round numbers match the MotoGP round numbers, but I don't think that makes sense - there were only 17 rounds in the 2012 Moto2 Championship, so a round number of 18 doesn't make sense. It also makes the season summary articles inconsistent with the rider articles - it you look at Corsi's results table, the 2012 rounds are numbered 1-17:

Year Class Bike 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Final pos Points
2008 125cc Aprilia QAT
7
SPA
1
POR
1
CHN
Ret
FRA
13
ITA
1
CAT
5
GBR
5
NED
3
GER
5
CZE
10
RSM
3
IND
7
JPN
7
AUS
8
MAL
3
VAL
1
2nd 225
2009 125cc Aprilia QAT
14
JPN
15
SPA
14
FRA
Ret
ITA
18
CAT
16
NED
8
GER
Ret
GBR
2
CZE
Ret
IND
3
RSM
7
POR
Ret
AUS
5
MAL
Ret
VAL
4
11th 81
2010 Moto2 Motobi QAT
8
SPA
5
FRA
3
ITA
3
GBR
Ret
NED
12
CAT
6
GER
Ret
CZE
8
IND
5
RSM
4
ARA
5
JPN
11
MAL
10
AUS
8
POR
14
VAL
7
5th 138
2011 Moto2 FTR QAT
6
SPA
3
POR
5
FRA
7
CAT
4
GBR
10
NED
14
ITA
7
GER
8
CZE
9
IND
14
RSM
10
ARA
3
JPN
5
AUS
15
MAL
Ret
VAL
Ret
6th 127
2012 Moto2 FTR QAT
8
SPA
17
POR
Ret
FRA
Ret
CAT
5
GBR
5
NED
Ret
GER
6
ITA
18
IND
8
CZE
5
RSM
Ret
ARA
7
JPN
6
MAL
23
AUS
7
VAL
17
11th 87

If there is consensus to change the numbering, I'm happy to do the work. Comments? DH85868993 (talk) 23:36, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I think this just emphasises that MotoGP, Moto2 and Moto3 should be seperated into individual pages. Superbike and Supersport have seperate season pages. The same should apply here. --Falcadore (talk) 07:55, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
While we're on separation (which I would support), I also think that 500cc and MotoGP should be separated, as should 250cc and Moto2, and 125cc and Moto3. At the moment they get lumped together as a continuation, but they're distinct classes. Readro (talk) 09:46, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
I also agree with all the above commnets, the pages for Moto GP/Moto2/Moto3 are much too long and i think could cause confusion if someone who doesn't know the sport would want to look for information. All other series have separate pages with links under the infobox to the other classes. SBK and BSB articles are done this way and i think Moto GP should be the same. As for the round numbering to me it makes no sense how it currently is because moto2/3 don't have 18 rounds they have 17... Xrateddan (talk) 11:04, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
I made the changes and then reverted them. It occurs to me that (for example) the 2012 Moto2 race at Valencia can be considered as "round 17 of the 2012 Moto2 World Championship", or "the Moto2 class of round 18 of the 2012 FIM Road Racing World Championship". So I think we need to think about this further. DH85868993 (talk) 06:05, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

By the way, the tournament is called FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix, not Grand Prix motorcycle racing. --NaBUru38 (talk) 17:02, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Looks like its time to bring this debate to the Wikiproject talk page. --Falcadore (talk) 01:14, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
This is the WikiProject talk page, isn't it? DH85868993 (talk) 07:05, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
Grand Prix motorcycle racing is not an incorrect description and I'd oppose changing it. Readro (talk) 21:06, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

RfC on the use of flag icons for sportspeople[edit]

An RfC discussion about the MOS:FLAG restriction on the use of flag icons for sportspeople has been opened at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons. We invite all interested participants to provide their opinion here. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:52, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Table font sizes[edit]

I have removed the forced font sizes that are used in tables on a number of MotoGP articles. There are three reasons for this. The first is that there is absolutely no reason to use small fonts. The second is that using them makes it difficult for readers with a visual impairment - text, with the obvious exception of headings, should be kept at the same size for ease of reading. The last is that the use was inconsistent bordering on random - some fonts were 85%, some 90% and others 95%. Can we agree to use the same 100% font size throughout? --Biker Biker (talk) 23:19, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

My only concern is that it will cause some table rows to be doubled, i.e not being able to fit the whole riders name in the box, having said that this is less likely to happen with Moto GP than Superbike (Superbike having 2 races means more page is taken up and overflow can occur) and at 85% some articles are struggling to keep the content on the page without overflowing horizontally. If there is a solution to this then i would support the global 100% but until then i think only Moto GP articles should be at 100%. Plus it makes no difference 85-99, 90 and 95 are the same size as 85 anyway (or it seems that way). Xrateddan (talk) 19:35, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
WP:FONTSIZE states "large tables may require a decreased font size in order to fit on screen." Having looked at all the MotoGP articles I cannot see any tables that would overflow. For Superbike I take your point and the main results table could use the smaller fonts - but for all other fonts it is simply not needed. --Biker Biker (talk) 21:41, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
  • I don't understand the case where the rider's name is "doubled". At some browser widths, the rider's name is wrapped, which is fine. There are border lines on the table anyway, so what's the harm? If the browser width is extremely small, a horizontal scroll bar appears. Nothing is truncated.

    The larger issue is why we would think the reader needs table's in a smaller font size than the prose size. If the screen they have is too small, the reader has to change the default size in their browser. Assuming they've already done that, it doesn't help them to make table fonts even smaller.

    Keep in mind also that Help:Mobile access deals with viewing Wikipedia on small devices. If you're targeting that reader, you should to do so without shrinking the text for all readers.

    One other suggestion: if you really want a cleaner table that take up less space, lose the damn flags. You don't need to repetitively beat the reader over the head with the nationality of the rider and the track. Dates don't need the month spelled out; use numbers. Rider, track and team names don't need to be spelled out in every instance. Abbreviate them too. There are many better solutions than forcing on the reader a font smaller than the one they asked for. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:09, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

85% font size in table is standard across the motorsport pages. Take the calendar on the 2013 MotoGP season page for instance - at present, it only has four columns (round, date, event and circuit), but once the season starts, it will have four more (MotoGP winner, Moto2 winner, Moto3 winner and race reports). With eight columns and 100% font size, the calendar table is unlikely to fit the width of most monitors, particularly with the addition of pictures.
Similarly, abbreviations should be avoided when and where possible. It is not a solution. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 23:39, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Can you define "most monitors"? And which font size and browser width are you using to say it won't fit? And what's wrong with a horizontal scroll bar in cases where the user's font sizes are out of proportion with their browser width? The reason Wikipedia generally discourages forcing things like font or image sizes is that the need for them is not justified by the experience of most readers; rather it's an editor who fixes the page rather than fixing their own browser settings or user settings. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 00:01, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
The need for a horizontal slider bar should be avoided when and where possible. It's all about making the articles as accessible as possible to as many people as possible. If people have to move the slider bar across just to see the full extent of a table, then clearly that is less than satisfactory - particualrly when there is a viable alternative in fixing the size of the fonts. Biker Biker claims that 100% font size is ideal for people who are vision impaired, but there is a gaping flaw in his argument: I'm vision-imparied, and if I have trouble reading something at 85%, I put my glasses on and stop having trouble. If somebody's vision is so imparied that they have trouble reading something at 85%, then chances are that they are going to realise that they have a problem with their vision in everyday activities, and increasing the font size to 100% is not going to make a difference in what they can see. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 07:24, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

1979 Venezuelan motorcycle Grand Prix[edit]

FYI, there is a discussion in progress regarding the 1979 Venezuelan motorcycle Grand Prix article at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Motorsport#1979_Venezuelan_motorcycle_Grand_Prix. DH85868993 (talk) 21:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

2012 season articles needing work[edit]

Time for my annual post about incomplete season articles. The following series articles are little more than tables. Most of them don't even explain what they are, whether they are open wheel series, where they are held, who won the series! Apparently a series as important as DTM considers the point score system more important than the series champion.

The situation is also encouraging new editors to be likewise poor in seasonal coverage.

So while the majority of series are in hibernation perhaps we could spend a few days improving these articles.

Surely it would be more important and productive than arguing over whether Mercedes or Mercedes AMG is the correct terminiology for a constructor? Less minuatae!

No mention of series winner:
2012 AMA Pro American Superbike Championship season
2012 FIM Motocross World Championship season
2012 Superbike World Championship season
2012 Supersport World Championship season
2012 FIM Superstock 1000 Championship season

Series winner mentioned but no season review:

  • Indicates race summaries, but a lack of season review

2012 AMA Pro Daytona Sportbike Championship season
2012 Superbike World Championship season

Thank you for your time. --Falcadore (talk) 05:42, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Portal:Sports is up for featured portal consideration[edit]

This is a courtesy message to inform the members of this project that I have nominated Portal:Sports for featured portal status. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Sports. The featured portal criteria are at Wikipedia:Featured portal criteria. Please feel free to weigh in. Sven Manguard Wha? 18:37, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Indian motorcycle Grand Prix[edit]

Indian motorcycle Grand Prix seems to be incorrect in stating that the first race of the 2013 MotoGP season will be held in India. As far as I can tell, there will be no races in India this year. Perhaps it is based on dated reporting? Hopefully someone with better knowledge on this topic can clean up the article. — Brianhe (talk) 20:56, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

The only sources are Indian websites. There is no Indian Grand Prix this year, nor any confirmation that there will be one at all. I think the article should be deleted. Readro (talk) 11:09, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

AMA Pro riders at Road America[edit]

I have tickets for this Sunday's AMA Pro Superbike race at Road America. I normally photograph the entire field in the race when I go to the NASCAR race there and I'll try for this event too. Is there another other pictures that anyone would like? Any bike parts? I'll try to get a photo of the field racing up the hill between Turn 5 and 6 on the first lap. Royalbroil 01:35, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Oldest motorcycle speedway race in the world[edit]

Hello there. I found this article which makes an unsourced claim of being the oldest motorcycle speedway race in the world. Bold evaluation of this statement may be made at the article. Thanks, C679 08:54, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Category:MotoGP race reports[edit]

Category:MotoGP race reports desperately needs to be sub-divided by season. Any brave souls willing to begin? --Falcadore (talk) 06:55, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

I was about to start doing this, then I noticed that the MotoGP race reports are already grouped by year - the individual race report articles are each included in the relevant "YYYY in Grand Prix motorcycle racing" category. Note that this is different to how the Formula One race reports are categorised - the individual Formula One race report articles are included in the relevant "YYYY Formula One race reports" category, and just that category is included in the "YYYY in Formula One" category. I'm not necessarily opposed to changing the MotoGP category structure to match the Formula One ones; I just wanted to point out that the MotoGP race reports are already grouped by year. DH85868993 (talk) 05:25, 6 February 2014 (UTC)