Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorsport

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Superleague Formula[edit]

I have suggested that WP:WikiProject Superleague Formula be merged into WP:MS; for the discussion, see WT:WikiProject Superleague Formula -- (talk) 05:52, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

A1 Grand Prix[edit]

I have suggested that WP:WikiProject A1 Grand Prix be merged into WP:MS; for the discussion, see WT:WikiProject A1 Grand Prix -- (talk) 06:00, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

WRC teams' national flags[edit]

I've found some inconsisties regarding the nationality (flagicon) of Hyundai Motorsport motorsport, sometimes apeearing with Korean flag and others with German flag (for example 2016 World Rally Championship vs 2017 World Rally Championship). For me, like Toyota's Motorsports teams, since its an official team, its a japanese team, although Toyota Team Europe (WRC 1993-1999), F1 or WEC team is based in Cologne, Germany, or the current Toyota Gazoo Racing WRC is based on Finland. Several official F1 teams are based in England and they are not British. So, we should stick to nationality of the Master/Mother-Company (Hyundai-Korea) or base? And for the remaining official teams with a HQ in other country besides the Master-Company?Rpo.castro (talk) 16:14, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

That is a good question. In the 2016 season's page there is a source next to Hyundai's entry, which states that it is a German-based squad. Whereas, there is no such information about this in the 2017 season's page. I changed the flag to German and pointed people to this discussion if they disagree or want to clarify. – Sabbatino (talk) 16:32, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
It is whatever the team decides to be, actually. Just because Toyota is Japanese does not inherently mean all their teams are Japanese. ByKolles, and by extension their previous entry under Lotus, ran as German (2012), Czech (2013), Romanian (2014), and Austrian (2015-2017). By extension, Audi's Le Mans racing teams have been entered as German and American, even when they were run by Joest Racing. The359 (Talk) 16:33, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
And it can change year on year. Just because they were German in 2016, that does not automatically mean that they are German in 2017. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 18:18, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
And where are the sources that would confirm that they race under South Korean flag this year? – Sabbatino (talk) 20:47, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
The old WRC site. Where are your sources that say it is still German? After all, there was a consensus formed on the talk page agreeing that it is Korean. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 21:51, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Also, they play the Korean national anthem when Hyundai win rallies, not the German anthem. In the same way, they play the British anthem for M-Sport, Japanese for Toyota, and French for Citroën. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 02:20, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
You could have just pointed people to that discussion instead of going "your way" like always. – Sabbatino (talk) 04:30, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── And you could have looked at the article talk page first, instead of swooping in and making changes without understanding the issue the way you always do. After all, the Korean flag is used four times in the article, not once. You clearly didn't read it; you just assumed that because they competed under a German licence in 2016, they're still German in 2017. Plus, the argument that "they're German because they're based in Germany" holds no weight—Toyota is based in Finland, but competes under a Japanese licence (and like Hyundai with the Korean anthem, the Japanese article is played when Toyota wins), but you made no attempt to change that. Could you at least read an article and try to understand it before coming to a conclusion?

Besides, I didn't decide anything. I made a change that kept the article internally consistent and reflected a consensus on the talk page. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 07:42, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

"the way you always do" I wonder when I did that? It is useless to discuss anything with you as you always get into conflicts with everyone at the project. I am not going to bother to discuss with someone who shows arrogance in every single post. Good luck. – Sabbatino (talk) 10:41, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
What do you want me to do? Recognise the merits of your edits? There were none. You have a reputation on the Formula One articles for charging in and making edits without thinking about it. You clearly didn't make any attempt to understand the content of the article here. Is it too much to ask that you read the article and the talk page before making edits? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 10:59, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
I do not have such reputation on the F1 articles so stop imagining things. – Sabbatino (talk) 11:02, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Prisonermonkeys and Sabbatino, lets leave the past where it belongs and forget old wars.Rpo.castro (talk) 11:16, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
I think when its a official team, its is running under the Manufacturer flag. The anthem is a good argument, and most of media (if not all) refers to Hyundai as Korean, Toyota as japanese. Even their victories are combined to make a balance between german vs japanese teams (for example Mazda being the only japanese winner in Le Mans despite the importance for Japan, highlighted during 2016 Le Mans, when Toyota almost won).
ByKolles is a different case (probably more complex), its a private company. But if you look at Toyota Team Europe, until 1993 was a private team founded by Ove Anderson and had in some years, some support from Toyota, but still private until Toyota bought the full team. From that moment on for me is a japanese. It responds to the mother-company in every important matters, like shutting down the team.
Besides, as a oficcial team, it can run for manufacturer championship. So if it represents the manufacturer, the flag must be the same as the manufacturer. The same facilities of TTE were used as HQ for Toyota WEC and F1 teams and they were always considered japanese. Renault F1 has a base in Enstone (some times Renault F1 is called "the team from enstone" in media) and nobody says its english, neither Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 team, based in Brackley or Sauber, or WTCC Honda team (running by JAS Motorsport).
Just to add some more confusion, in WRC official website, Hyundai apeears as based on Germany, while Toyota as based on Japan, which for me makes no sense.
PS forgot to fullfill the description of the topic, and so this was post under an existing one.Rpo.castro (talk) 09:34, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
It works the same way as it does in Formula 1. A team registers with the national sporting body that then issues them with a licence to compete. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 10:59, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Indeed. And that means that the nationality of a team isn't automatically the same of the manufacturer running it. For instance, American manufacturer Ford ran a F1 team which competed with a British nationality.Tvx1 14:18, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
But Jaguar was a British brand belonging to Ford. Chrysler and Dodge belongs to Fiat S.p.A. Would you say they are italian? For Hyundai, are they running with a german license?Rpo.castro (talk) 14:37, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Not the point. The F1 team was owned, run and funded by the American Ford Motor Company. Yet they opted to run it with a British identity.Tvx1 15:33, 23 May 2017 (UTC)


For Hyundai, are they running with a german license?

No, they're running a South Korean licence. They were running a German licence previously, but now they're Korean. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 21:13, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

"Racing drivers born in YYYY" categories[edit]

FYI, an editor has created numerous "Racing drivers born in YYYY" categories (e.g. Category:Racing drivers born in 1962), which I have nominated for deletion, on the basis that we don't usually have "<profession> born in YYYY" categories. Interested editors may participate in the deletion discussion. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 09:34, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Just a heads up, I gave him a warning yesterday about adding non existent categories and then he started creating them. – Sabbatino (talk) 09:59, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Nomination of Kush Maini for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Kush Maini is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kush Maini until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.Corvus tristis (talk) 10:26, 28 May 2017 (UTC)


New Taskforce : Superleague[edit]

Hello members of wikiproject Motorsport! As the closing user, I would like to inform you that wikiproject Superleague Formula has been merged to yours as a taskforce after a discussion.

16:21, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

New Taskforce : A1 Grand Prix[edit]

Per consensus at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorsport/taskforce/A1 Grand Prix, I have moved the wikiproject A1 Grand Prix to a taskforce of this wikiproject. It can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Motorsport/taskforce/A1 Grand Prix. All sub pages have also been moved. Please check the task force and add/correct any content/links as appropriate. Yashovardhan (talk) 16:21, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Jim Russell (racing driver)[edit]

Should "Jim" be removed from the lead at Jim Russell (racing driver), in favour of 'Herbert James Russell'? See Talk:Jim Russell (racing driver)#WP:ALTNAME Andy Dingley (talk) 16:51, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

It wasn't there when I looked just now, so I put in "commonly called 'Jim'", seeing the pagename isn't Herbert Russell...& explanatory notes for even obvious cases (like Dick Bong) aren't exactly uncommon. (It also helps explain why some are "Richard", some are "Dick", & some are "Graham"...) TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 03:34, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
Jim is a common diminutive of James, one of his given names, so by the letter of the guideline it need not be included at all. There is no law says you must use your first given name or a derivative thereof. As for the "commonly called Jim" bit, that is rather clumsy and entirely unnecessary in these common cases (Dick, Rick, Rich, Richard, etc.) as the article's title and the title of the infobox is enough to tell people what the subject is commonly called. Personally, I disagree with WP:NICKNAME and seen no problem whatsoever in including the subject's common nickname in quotations within the full name, as this practice is very widespread and well understood outside of Wikipedia. This is a much more elegant and succinct solution to the issue that Trekphiler mentions than creating a repetitious clause immediately following the subject's name. Pyrope 20:23, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
Given the pagename, you may be right about "commonly" being unnecessary, but I've run into editors on the Bong page changing "Richard Ira" to "Dick", which defeats the purpose of having his full name to begin with. "Commonly" satisfies both parts of the equation, if a bit clumsily. TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 05:55, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
Yup, and that's why I disagree with WP:NICKNAME, as Richard Ira "Dick" Bong is a more simple and elegant solution to both problems. However, the MoS argues against presenting a common hypocorism in this way. Daft. Pyrope 14:17, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
There doesn't seem to be a general practice regarding the use of a nickname/commonname in the lead sentence. Searching around I found William Jefferson Clinton, James Earl Carter, James Robert Stewart but also John Ellis "Jeb" Bush Sr., Robert Francis 'Bobby" Kennedy, Edward Moore "Ted" Kennedy. Also Sir John Young "Jackie" Stewart, Paul Richard "Richie" Ginther, Massimiliano "Max" Papis, Alessandro "Alex" Zanardi, Teodorico "Teo" Fabi, Joseph "Jo" Schlesser, Joseph "Jo" Siffert, Alfred "Al" Unser. On the other hand we also have Keijo Erik Rosberg, known as "Keke" and Jyrki Juhani Järvilehto, better known as "JJ Lehto".
The difference between de facto and de jure practices. I don't see an issue with leaving a common contraction/diminutive out of the lead line name, in line with the suggestion at WP:NICKNAME, but also don't see a problem with including one and I'd argue that the "XX" form is preferable to an immediately subsequent clause that starts 'commonly known as...' Lehto is something of a special case as his common name isn't a simple diminutive, but more like an old fashioned nom de course in the ilk of B. Bira or Pierre Levegh. Pyrope 16:45, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
"the MoS argues against presenting a common hypocorism in this way. Daft." No, it's not. Whatever name he's known by, it's not his name at birth (or, as Mrs Petty famously remarked, "If we'd wanted him called Dick, we'd have named him Dick."). IMO, the MoS is perfectly right on that, & when I find the "embedded" presentation, I change it, for that reason. In addition, that formulation allows for other nicknames, as in the case of Alberto Ascari or (to toot my own horn) John Bradley. TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 01:54, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
It is absolutely daft. This sort of construction is utterly standard across many forms of written media in English: newspaper obituaries, biographies, encyclopedic entries, etc etc. Your argument holds no water as there is clearly no implication that the nickname forms part of their proper name; that's what the (again, completely standard) quotation marks show. This form of construction is endorsed by the MoS for uncommon diminutive and non-derived nicknames, and is only argued against for common forms because of the assumption (clearly not a good assumption) that readers don't need common forms explicitly stated. I am very aware that you are unilaterally altering articles to your preferred construction, and I'm afraid that I do find it ugly, inelegant, and clumsy. Pyrope 02:37, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:WikiProject A1 Grand Prix[edit]

Template:WikiProject A1 Grand Prix has been nominated for merging with Template:WikiProject Motorsport. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. -- (talk) 05:22, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:WikiProject Superleague Formula[edit]

Template:WikiProject Superleague Formula has been nominated for merging with Template:WikiProject Motorsport. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. -- (talk) 05:22, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

24 Hours of LeMons[edit]

I was wondering if someone from this WikiProject would mind taking a look at 24 Hours of LeMons. Recently, there have been attempts to tweak the name from LeMons to LEMONS/Lemons by new SPAs (I think it might be the same person). I've been trying to verifying any name change, but haven't been able to find the sources. I've also tried to get the editor(s) to discuss the changes on the talk page, but have no luck so far. If name change can be verified, then maybe the page should be moved so that it is not only reflected within the article, but also in the title. In addition, the infobox logo appears to still be the one used by the event, but changing the file name like these editor's have been doing will not work because file names (like article titles) also need to be moved to be changed. Anyway, any feedback or others watching the article would be appreciated. -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:14, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Drivers for deletion[edit]

Vivien Keszthelyi, Ole Kristian Temte and Josh Burdon are all autobiographies and neither comply with notability guidelines. For notability I would also consider adding the following for a potential deletion: Christian Lundgaard, Presley Martono, Jamie Caroline, Aleksey Korneev and Tuomas Tujula. I would also pay close attention to some of the more recent driver article creations by User:Poppo154, which contain a lot of information but potentially no relevance. 2001:8003:2142:F500:C549:D14A:7B3:1D4 (talk) 23:30, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi User:2001:8003:2142:F500:C549:D14A:7B3:1D4, thanks for the feedback, which drivers do you mean? Poppo154 (talk) 07:35, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

About Magnum Cars[edit]

Hi motorsport people. I've just kicked off this article. I note that what appears to be its website - - is up for sale. Is this a notable motorsports marque? --Shirt58 (talk) 09:16, 20 August 2017 (UTC)