Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorsport

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TCR regional series[edit]

I had big doubts about self-notability of the 2015 TCR Italian Series season, 2015 TCR USA Series season, 2015 TCR Portuguese Series season and 2015 TCR Russian Series season. They are not even the series. They are just subcategories of the Italian GT Championship, Russian Touring Car Championship, etc. And I think it will be a better decision to make a general article 2015 TCR Series seasons where we include all these "series" (like 2009 Formula Renault seasons). Corvus tristis (talk) 04:04, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Formula Three and British Formula 3 Championship[edit]

Users involved in the discussion to date. @QueenCake:, @Corvus tristis:

The British Formula Three Championship page has recently been moved from *Formula Three* to *F3*. This seems a reasonably important move but took place without discussion, the rationale being that the UK championship was known only as *F3* not Formula Three. The move has produced some anomalies where Formula Three (linked to the page about the racing class) and Formula 3 appear close together on the same page and others have felt that the two terms are interchangeable. Wiki uses Formula One & Formula Two as racing class page titles (as well as Formula Three) and to change an article about one (albeit important) series lacks consistency, to my mind. Eagleash (talk) 16:53, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

You are wrong that incosistency started after renaming to the British Formula 3 Championship, we already had Masters of Formula 3 (created in 2006), Australian Formula 3 (created in 2007), Formula 3 Sudamericana (created in 2007), North European Zone Formula 3 Cup (created in 2009), Austria Formula 3 Cup (created in 2009), Formula 3 Euro Series (renamed in 2010), etc. Corvus tristis (talk) 17:11, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
Nobody actually made that assertion. The page move edit summary unequivocably stated that the British series 'never' used the word three in its title. Where has that information come from? I just looked through some old programmes from the 1960s & '70s. Some had 'Three', some '3' and some even 'III'. So the name seems changeable at best. Eagleash (talk) 17:23, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
Update; individual season articles have been changed also. Eagleash (talk) 17:50, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
Nobody? So, it was not your words "Wiki uses Formula One & Formula Two as racing class page titles (as well as Formula Three) and to change an article about one (albeit important) series lacks consistency, to my mind."? P.S. May we should move Formula 3000/5000 pages to the Formula Three Thousand/Five Thousand then? For more consistency. :) Corvus tristis (talk) 18:26, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
I'm confused. If the title of the championship is Formula 3, why in the world would we change it to Formula Three? Consistency? We don't change the name of proper titles for consistency, and this is not a case of common title. The title of the category used in the series has no bearing on the correct title of the series. The FIA GT1 World Championship used Group GT3 cars in 2012, we don't change the title to FIA GT3 World Championship.
I'd be fairly certain that the FIA refers to the category as "Formula Three" and that the British championship is stylized as "British Formula 3" (I quite well remember the logo when Stephane Ratel took over the championship). Hence these pages have the correct titles as is. The359 (Talk) 18:53, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) You are drawing an inference which does not exist. No comment was made as to when inconsistency started, merely that this page move seemed inconsistent with the way formulae are usually described in the major articles. You've still not said where your assertion that the term was never used came from or commented otherwise on what is a mass-change without seeking opinions or consensus, which is the way this works and the intention in starting a discussion, (to see what others think). Eagleash (talk) 18:59, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
Based on the table. Corvus tristis (talk) 06:29, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
@The359: The title did include Formula Three until a very recent series of page moves which have caused some (minor) anomalies. The question is not whether it should be moved to Formula Three but to establish a consensus for the moves away from that designation. Eagleash (talk) 19:06, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
No one has ever called Formula 3000 "Formula Three Thousand", because that's just ridiculous. Formula Three however is used often, as you can ascertain through a browse of historical sources. You'll note it's used on Wikipedia as a page title for the German Formula Three Championship, French Formula Three Championship, All-Japan Formula Three, and previously the European Formula Three Championship, before it was unilaterally changed by Corvus tristis, so there is certainly no common use of Formula 3 on here.
"Formula Three" and "Formula 3" (or perhaps Formula III) are indeed interchangeable. As Eagleash notes, over the years the race organisers have used both regularly, either due to the branding changing over the years, or perhaps more accurately simply what the person writing the programme decided to use that day. Usage in the media again varies. All major publications covering motorsport will have a style guide, which decides upon using either the number or the letter, while other books or those magazines from a more amateur era will use whatever the writer or editor decides upon. Even then, usage still varies over time; for example currently uses Formula 1/2/3, while an older magazine I'm looking at has Formula One/Three. This all makes it very difficult to standardise on one form on Wikipedia, or make such a bold statement that the British series never used the word three.
Without any firm sources, it's really down to us to decide upon which form to use. I do believe we need our own style guide, and my personal preference is to stick to Formula Three for all series. That is what we use for the category page Formula Three, and it better fits with the manual of style - Integers from zero to nine are spelled out in words. Any thoughts? QueenCake (talk) 19:50, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
Just a note on 3000, it's a number because it's greater than ten. Standard style is that one to ten are words, 11 and above are numbers. -mattbuck (Talk) 08:33, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
What about GP2 Series, A1 Grand Prix, and some other classes of auto racing? They also have integers from zero to nine in its title. P.S. If you look at the current F3/F4 championships, none of them uses letters instead of the numbers. It was a long time ago when somebody used letters in the titles. Corvus tristis (talk) 09:43, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────The names for those series are both 'common-names' and the official title of the series and I would think are pretty much 'universal'. It doesn't help in making the decision as to which name to use for the series under discussion. I note that some pages have been moved again to 'Three' and I have invited the user who did so, to join the discussion. Eagleash (talk) 12:25, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

You still didn't provide any sources that "Three" was in official name of the championship for the significant time of its existence. You just support one of the version of the name from some very old programmes and outdated Autosport articles that common Wikipedia reader doesn't know, but for sure he can find the official site or one of the motorsport sites, where he will see British Formula 3, not British Formula Three. Corvus tristis (talk) 13:13, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Hello, in Spanish the press rarely uses "Tres" or "Cuatro", so in Wikipedia we always use numbers. But I don't know about British press. --NaBUru38 (talk) 21:02, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm going to suggest, after looking at this discussion, that in the absence of any consensus we keep British Formula Three Championship on the current page (with the word three). I would also suggest that we do the same for all other categories and series, and only change the article name if there is agreement that the article is incorrectly named. In addition, making mass-AWB changes to links on Wikipedia in the event of an article move is completely unnecessary. We have redirects for a reason. QueenCake (talk) 22:06, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Does it mean that you can't provide any reliable online sources for "Three" to prove your point? Corvus tristis (talk) 06:08, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
It more means that there was no evidence for a unilateral mass change, without discussion, in the first place. It is not required to "prove" the status quo, but wowuld be for moves away from it. Eagleash (talk) 06:37, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
It was. You told about the importance about discussion so many times but you didn't listening any opinions different from your opinion. If it is really the status quo why it so hard for you to provide some links that will show "British Formula Three Championship" in the reliable sources? Corvus tristis (talk) 19:18, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Eagleash already provided a number of sources showing the use British Formula Three. There is no requirement that these sources have to be online; indeed that is quite impossible seeing that the championship started in 1951, and the contemporary publications far predate the invention of the world wide web. QueenCake (talk) 20:10, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
No, Eagleash didn't at all. He didn't even name a published source. He said "I just looked through some old programmes from the 1960s & '70s.". It will be very funny if we will start to reference information in Wikipedia in this manner. Corvus tristis (talk) 03:25, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Lapchart Creation[edit]

For the first two races of the 2015-16 season of Formula E their is no lap leaders section and I have no idea how to do this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SportingJezza (talkcontribs) 20:35, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Jac Nelleman[edit]

FYI, I've started a discussion about the correct spelling of this driver's surname at Talk:Jac Nelleman#Nelleman or Nellemann?. DH85868993 (talk) 08:16, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Rahul Raj Mayer[edit]

Hello motorsport experts. This article was declined as a draft at AfC and then copied into mainspace. Is this a notable racer?—Anne Delong (talk) 11:01, 18 November 2015 (UTC)