Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mountains

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Silvretta panorama from the Ochsenkopf

Nomination for merging of Template:Infobox mountain range[edit]

Template:Infobox mountain range has been nominated for merging with Template:Infobox mountain. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. —hike395 (talk) 03:21, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

The result of the discussion was merge. RedWolf brought up some points about the design of the new infobox, but I was busy IRL, so did not have a chance to respond to him. In order to do the merge, there needs to be some prep work done (i.e, add |region_code= to {{Infobox mountain}}, then run AWB to convert all uses of |region= to |region_code=). I'll start on the prep work (the AWB job could take a long time), but we can discuss RedWolf's design points in parallel. —hike395 (talk) 03:34, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Design points raised by RedWolf[edit]

I agree with consolidating to one infobox but the proposed new template generates some awkward results (IMHO):

  1. Adding the "Highest point" heading for a majority of the mountains that really only have the one high point adds clutter. If we want to go that route, we should consider adding some parameters for significant lower points (e.g. On Mt. Everest, we have the Hillary Step, South Summit, South Col). The highest point header should then only be added if there is at least one secondary high point specified. On the downside though this could be considered going down the "parameters for everything" infobox type that I really don't like much for the most part. For me, the point of infoboxes is to provide a terse summary of the common attributes of general interest to most. When I see some of the huge infoboxes (e.g. for cities/states/provinces), I eventually have the tendency to ignore them as there's just too much detail in there that I don't care about that I have to jump over. It's "too much work" to find something. This though is also the drawback of going to a combo template which describes multiple mountain landforms and thus the need for more and more parameters to denote the differentiating features of each subtype (e.g. the extra parameters for volcanoes – not picking on them, just using as example).
  2. One thing I did like about Geobox is the support for breaking up the location into country, state/province, county, etc. Same as what hike395 mentioned in point #4 of the proposal I think. The mountain infobox on the German Wiki site supports this and probably some of the other language sites as well.
  3. I definitely like changing the "Location" header to "Geography". I recall this is something that was discussed in a previous conversion discussion but we really couldn't decide on a better name at the time.
  4. In the Sunwapta Peak comparison example, why is "Easiest route" split between two lines for the Combo template?
  5. Saying "Parent range" instead of simply "Range" for proper singular mountains within a range just seems to make it sound awkward and a bit confusing (idk, maybe it's just me). It makes sense for mountain ranges but not specific mountains. Parent range is ambiguous for a mountain because do you mean its immediate enclosing range or the parent of that range or the top parent? For example, are we supposed to use Front Ranges, Canadian Rockies or Rocky Mountains? Adding "Parent" just adds confusion (which reminds me of the varying definitions of parent peak where we have people using different definitions when they add it to the infobox but that can be a separate discussion).

--- RedWolf (talk) 05:57, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Responding to RedWolf's ideas:
  1. I liked the "Highest point" header for individual mountains, because I thought it added clarity about what the "coordinates" meant. But, I see your point about clutter. I don't really want to add a bunch of parameters for subsidiary peaks (agreeing with your point, above, about infobox complexity). What I can do (if other editors agree) is suppress the "Highest point" header unless |range_lat_d= is defined (which is the only way the infobox knows it's about a range/massif).
  2. Yes, the new merged infobox will have a much more flexible country/state/province/county/region location specifier, like in Geobox.
  3. Thanks!
  4. {{Infobox mountain}} currently enforces "nowrap". {{Infobox mountain range}} does not. {{Infobox mountain}} is 22em wide, while {{Infobox mountain range}} is 25em wide. Some of the labels in {{Infobox mountain range}} are somewhat long. I went with 22em and wrapping, in order to accommodate the longer labels. As a compromise, I could go with "nowrap" and 23.5em (halfway between the two). I can try this out.
  5. I think the problem you describe (that no one knows exactly which range to use) will be present whether we call it "parent range" or just "range". The problem with just calling it "range" is that it makes no sense if the article itself is about a range. I'd rather go with an ambiguous name than something that makes no sense.
I will try out the "Highest point" suppression, 23.5em, and "nowrap" and see how it looks. —hike395 (talk) 05:08, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Later --- Not all ranges have |range_lat_d= defined (e.g., Himalayas, Alps). So, that's not a reliable way of suppressing the "highest point" header. I'll revert. As I said above, I like the new header -- I don't think it's clutter. Any other suggestions of how to reliably suppress the header only for ranges are welcome. —hike395 (talk) 05:20, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Discussion is awfully quiet..... Volcanoguy 21:36, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
I am assuming people are OK with the 23.5em width, nowrap, "parent range" label, and "Highest point" header. I haven't had a chance to run the big AWB job to use |region_code=. —hike395 (talk) 06:53, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
My latest question on Template talk:Infobox mountain range remains unanswered. How is |range= or |parent_range= appropriate for mountain ranges or individual mountains that are not part of a larger mountain system? Volcanoguy 13:44, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Will the existing infoboxes be deleted or used as wrappers? I am concerned that we will break the excellent process by which the German wiki infoboxes (which are still separate) are a) initially wrapped and b) automatically replaced by either of the current infoboxes. The current process, which ought to be an exemplar for all the others, enables me as a translator to bring across dozens of articles quickly and concentrate mainly on the article text without spending hours tediously replacing infoboxes which, as we have seen, can be awesomely automated. --Bermicourt (talk) 15:38, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Restarting discussion[edit]

Sorry that I have neglected this: got very busy IRL, and don't have a lot of time for ambitious changes to WP.

@Volcanoguy: If a mountain (or mountain range) is not obvious part of a larger mountain system, then I would not use the |parent range= parameter.
@Bermicourt: The new infobox should be plug-compatible with both current infoboxes: the idea is to replace the current contetnts of {{Infobox mountain}} and have {{Infobox mountain range}} redirect to {{Infobox mountain}}.

hike395 (talk) 19:53, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Invitation to Participate in a WikiProject Study[edit]

Hello Wikipedians,

We’d like to invite you to participate in a study that aims to explore how WikiProject members coordinate activities of distributed group members to complete project goals. We are specifically seeking to talk to people who have been active in at least one WikiProject in their time in Wikipedia. Compensation will be provided to each participant in the form of a $10 Amazon gift card.

The purpose of this study is to better understanding the coordination practices of Wikipedians active within WikiProjects, and to explore the potential for tool-mediated coordination to improve those practices. Interviews will be semi-structured, and should last between 45-60 minutes. If you decide to participate, we will schedule an appointment for the online chat session. During the appointment you will be asked some basic questions about your experience interacting in WikiProjects, how that process has worked for you in the past and what ideas you might have to improve the future.

You must be over 18 years old, speak English, and you must currently be or have been at one time an active member of a WikiProject. The interview can be conducted over an audio chatting channel such as Skype or Google Hangouts, or via an instant messaging client. If you have questions about the research or are interested in participating, please contact Michael Gilbert at (206) 354-3741 or by email at

We cannot guarantee the confidentiality of information sent by email.

The link to the relevant research page is m:Research:Means_and_methods_of_coordination_in_WikiProjects (talk) 04:04, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Matterhorn 150th anniversary[edit]

One last effort before the festivities

As 2015 is the year of the Matterhorn, I invite all interested Wikipedians to join the celebrations by enhancing the quality of all pertinent articles and by making Wikipedia a great source for information pertaining to that subject. In addition to the main article, there are many other pages that deserve to be upgraded and the range of topics is broad: history, mountain huts, nearby settlements and places, biographies, films (btw The Challenge and The Mountain Calls are available online) etc... You can check the Category:Matterhorn but it is far from being an exhaustive list and some articles are also still missing (Peter Taugwalder, Jean-Joseph Maquignaz (fr), Scrambles Amongst the Alps...).

Happy editing, and remember to enjoy it! ZachG (Talk) 17:03, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Cleanup of "list of mountains"[edit]

The list of mountains page (rated as top importance for this project) is, frankly, a mess. I'm looking at how it can be improved. There hasn't been any reply to the message I posted on its talk page, and I would welcome some input. --David Edgar (talk) 09:54, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

  • Thanks for mentioning it here. I was not aware of the cleanup discussion on that list page as it's not on my watchlist. I agree the page needs cleanup and have replied with initial suggestions. RedWolf (talk) 02:52, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Mountain on Ceres[edit]

See Talk:Great Pyramid of Ceres for a debate on the naming of this article -- (talk) 05:04, 21 June 2015 (UTC)