Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Neuroscience

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RfC regarding the WP:Lead guideline -- the first sentence[edit]

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Lead section#Request for comment on parenthetical information in first sentence. A WP:Permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 05:33, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Facto Post – Issue 2 – 13 July 2017[edit]

Issue 2 – 13 July 2017
Facto Post – Issue 2 – 13 July 2017
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Editorial: Core models and topics[edit]

Wikimedians interest themselves in everything under the sun — and then some. Discussion on "core topics" may, oddly, be a fringe activity, and was popular here a decade ago.

The situation on Wikidata today does resemble the halcyon days of 2006 of the English Wikipedia. The growth is there, and the reliability and stylistic issues are not yet pressing in on the project. Its Berlin conference at the end of October will have five years of achievement to celebrate. Think Wikimania Frankfurt 2005.

Progress must be made, however, on referencing "core facts". This has two parts: replacing "imported from Wikipedia" in referencing by external authorities; and picking out statements, such as dates and family relationships, that must not only be reliable but be seen to be reliable.

In addition, there are many properties on Wikidata lacking a clear data model. An emerging consensus may push to the front key sourcing and biomedical properties as requiring urgent attention. Wikidata's "manual of style" is currently distributed over thousands of discussions. To make it coalesce, work on such a core is needed.

Links[edit]


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Lysergic acid diethylamide listed at Requested moves[edit]

Information.svg

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Lysergic acid diethylamide to be moved to LSD. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. SparklingPessimist Scream at me! 03:32, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Facto Post – Issue 3 – 11 August 2017[edit]

Issue 3 – 11 August 2017
Facto Post – Issue 3 – 11 August 2017
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Wikimania report[edit]

Interviewed by Facto Post at the hackathon, Lydia Pintscher of Wikidata said that the most significant recent development is that Wikidata now accounts for one third of Wikimedia edits. And the essential growth of human editing.

Internet-In-A-Box

Impressive development work on Internet-in-a-Box featured in the WikiMedFoundation annual conference on Thursday. Hardware is Raspberry Pi, running Linux and the Kiwix browser. It can operate as a wifi hotspot and support a local intranet in parts of the world lacking phone signal. The medical use case is for those delivering care, who have smartphones but have to function in clinics in just such areas with few reference resources. Wikipedia medical content can be served to their phones, and power supplied by standard lithium battery packages.

Yesterday Katherine Maher unveiled the draft Wikimedia 2030 strategy, featuring a picturesque metaphor, "roads, bridges and villages". Here "bridges" could do with illustration. Perhaps it stands for engineering round or over the obstacles to progress down the obvious highways. Internet-in-a-Box would then do fine as an example.

"Bridging the gap" explains a take on that same metaphor, with its human component. If you are at Wikimania, come talk to WikiFactMine at its stall in the Community Village, just by the 3D-printed display for Bassel Khartabil; come hear T Arrow talk at 3 pm today in Drummond West, Level 3.

Link[edit]

  • Plaudit for the Medical Wikipedia app, content that is loaded into Internet-In-A-Box with other material, such as per-country documentation.
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:55, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Referred to this space by a wikipedia editor (in the public chatroom)[edit]

I created this page and submitted it about 4 weeks ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Allan_Combs

Perhaps someone can tell me if this meets the criteria for publication, as the regular page editors are unsure. Any feedback would be more than helpful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Allan Combs (talkcontribs) 20:33, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

I have "accepted" the draft -- it's clear to me that he is notable enough for an article. I would suggest that you add an infobox to the article (probably using template:infobox scientist). Looie496 (talk) 21:37, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
I've also left a message for the editor about WP:COI. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:20, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Proposed merge[edit]

I have proposed to merge Auditory evoked field into Evoked field; discussion is at Talk:Evoked field#Proposed merge. Cheers! bd2412 T 12:27, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

  YesY Merger complete. Seppi333 (Insert ) 17:31, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Would appreciate input on a potential article merge[edit]

See Talk:Reticular activating system#ARAS vs RAS.

In a nutshell, the question at hand is whether to (1) merge Reticulospinal tract into Reticular activating system, (2) merge both those articles into Reticular formation, or (3) neither. Seppi333 (Insert ) 15:56, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

  YesY Merger complete. (2nd option) Seppi333 (Insert ) 05:08, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Facto Post – Issue 4 – 18 September 2017[edit]

Issue 4 – 18 September 2017
Facto Post – Issue 4 – 18 September 2017
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Editorial: Conservation data[edit]

The IUCN Red List update of 14 September led with a threat to North American ash trees. The International Union for Conservation of Nature produces authoritative species listings that are peer-reviewed. Examples used as metonyms for loss of species and biodiversity, and discussion of extinction rates, are the usual topics covered in the media to inform us about this area. But actual data matters.

Dorstenia elata, a critically endangered South American herb, contained in Moraceae, the family of figs and mulberries

Clearly, conservation work depends on decisions about what should be done, and where. While animals, particularly mammals, are photogenic, species numbers run into millions. Plant species lie at the base of typical land-based food chains, and vegetation is key to the habitats of most animals.

ContentMine dictionaries, for example as tabulated at d:Wikidata:WikiFactMine/Dictionary list, enable detailed control of queries about endangered species, in their taxonomic context. To target conservation measures properly, species listings running into the thousands are not what is needed: range maps showing current distribution are. Between the will to act, and effective steps taken, the services of data handling are required. There is now no reason at all why Wikidata should not take up the burden.

Links[edit]

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:46, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

RfC: Should the WP:TALK guideline discourage interleaving?[edit]

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Wikipedia talk:Talk page guidelines#RfC: Should the guideline discourage interleaving?. A permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:30, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

And this has what to do with neuroscience content? --Tryptofish (talk) 00:26, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
I thought it was obvious that the RfC has to do with Wikipedia as a whole, which means it affects the members of this WikiProject just like it affects every other Wikipedia editor. Explained further on my talk page. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 18:33, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
I disagree, and I've replied at your talk. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:18, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

WP:NEURO: a part of WP:MED?[edit]

I just noticed that WP:NEURO is included in Category:WikiProject Medicine. Is this a correct categorization? Seppi333 (Insert ) 21:48, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

  • I hadn't realized that there are categories for WikiProjects, but I guess I should have expected it. Oh well. My gut reaction (as a PhD) was "bleep, no!!!!!". But after looking at all the categories here, I don't think that it makes this project subservient to other projects, but just serves to show relationships between them. Since we are also categorized with Biology and Psychology, and neuroscience unquestionably does have major applications in medical science, I don't have any problem with leaving us within that parent category. It's OK with me to leave it as is. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:03, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
I also think it should be left in the category per its ties to medicine (including anatomy, psychology, and psychiatry). Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:44, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
I wholly agree with Tryptofish, including the initial "bleep, no!!!!!". These are categories, not power structures. --Mark viking (talk) 23:01, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Type of sources to use at the Sex differences in intelligence article[edit]

Opinions are needed on the following: Talk:Sex differences in intelligence#Primary source after primary source. Concerns what type of sources to use when reporting on the intelligence studies. A permalink for it is here. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:41, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Facto Post – Issue 5 – 17 October 2017[edit]

Issue 5 – 17 October 2017
Facto Post – Issue 5 – 17 October 2017
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Editorial: Annotations[edit]

Annotation is nothing new. The glossators of medieval Europe annotated between the lines, or in the margins of legal manuscripts of texts going back to Roman times, and created a new discipline. In the form of web annotation, the idea is back, with texts being marked up inline, or with a stand-off system. Where could it lead?

1495 print version of the Digesta of Justinian, with the annotations of the glossator Accursius from the 13th century

ContentMine operates in the field of text and data mining (TDM), where annotation, simply put, can add value to mined text. It now sees annotation as a possible advance in semi-automation, the use of human judgement assisted by bot editing, which now plays a large part in Wikidata tools. While a human judgement call of yes/no, on the addition of a statement to Wikidata, is usually taken as decisive, it need not be. The human assent may be passed into an annotation system, and stored: this idea is standard on Wikisource, for example, where text is considered "validated" only when two different accounts have stated that the proof-reading is correct. A typical application would be to require more than one person to agree that what is said in the reference translates correctly into the formal Wikidata statement. Rejections are also potentially useful to record, for machine learning.

As a contribution to data integrity on Wikidata, annotation has much to offer. Some "hard cases" on importing data are much more difficult than average. There are for example biographical puzzles: whether person A in one context is really identical with person B, of the same name, in another context. In science, clinical medicine require special attention to sourcing (WP:MEDRS), and is challenging in terms of connecting findings with the methodology employed. Currently decisions in areas such as these, on Wikipedia and Wikidata, are often made ad hoc. In particular there may be no audit trail for those who want to check what is decided.

Annotations are subject to a World Wide Web Consortium standard, and behind the terminology constitute a simple JSON data structure. What WikiFactMine proposes to do with them is to implement the MEDRS guideline, as a formal algorithm, on bibliographical and methodological data. The structure will integrate with those inputs the human decisions on the interpretation of scientific papers that underlie claims on Wikidata. What is added to Wikidata will therefore be supported by a transparent and rigorous system that documents decisions.

An example of the possible future scope of annotation, for medical content, is in the first link below. That sort of detailed abstract of a publication can be a target for TDM, adds great value, and could be presented in machine-readable form. You are invited to discuss the detailed proposal on Wikidata, via its talk page.

Links[edit]

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:46, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Does anyone have institutional access to textbooks on the McGraw-Hill Medical website?[edit]

Resolved

I need these three textbook chapters: [1][2][3]. Seppi333 (Insert ) 00:01, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Nevermind, I've obtained them. Seppi333 (Insert ) 00:38, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Merge discussion[edit]

Editors here may perhaps be interested in Talk:Single-unit recording#Merge Extracellular field potential. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:53, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

2017 best article prize (WikiJournal of Medicine)[edit]

WJM Poster (hyperlinked).pdf

There are 8 weeks left to submit an article to the WikiJournal of Medicine for it to be eligible for the 2017 prize. For more information, see this advertisment from January or visit this author information page.

T.Shafee(Evo&Evo)talk 04:23, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Neurophysics[edit]

I just found out that this page exists. Is it really a thing? Any thoughts about taking it to AfD? --Tryptofish (talk) 21:55, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Why, sure. Neurophysics is the study of neuroscience using ideas and techniques from physics. No different in principle than neurochemistry. On the theoretical side, physicists created early models of neural function like Hopfield networks and associated spin glasses. Plenty of folks study neural systems as classical dynamical systems or even classical field theories. Natural scene statistics and sensory neural adaptations thereof are also an example of a neurophysics approach. On the experimental side, biophysics techniques for neural imaging (PET, MRI, etc) are also sometimes considered neurophysics. That said, I am stating common knowledge among physicists in the neuroscience field, rather than from reliable sources, so RS should probably be looked into. --Mark viking (talk) 22:19, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, you are very likely right. But aren't those things really described as being within areas like computational neuroscience and neuroimaging? I'm wondering if those are the terms that are actually used, whereas coining the term "neurophysics" (as opposed to biophysics) was original research. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:15, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Here are PubMed results for it being in the title: [4], or anywhere: [5]. (I'm amused by "Did you mean: neurophysins?") The word exists, but compared with neurochemistry: [6], 862 in title versus 8, it seems a lot less widely recognized. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:26, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
I agree that there is no doubt that neurochemistry is the better established cross-disciplinary field. Neurophysics also sounds cool, so there a a number of fringe works out there claiming to be neurophysics. Still, there are secondary sources like the books Methods and Models in Neurophysics and Electric Fields of the Brain: The Neurophysics of EEG. It's probably notable. --Mark viking (talk) 00:00, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
The existence of those books does count for something, I agree. In any case, I don't intend to take any action until after the SfN meeting, if at all. In the mean time, further comments here are welcome. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:40, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
Given that the article has essentially no content, I don't think it would be a tragedy if it went away. Looie496 (talk) 01:00, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Connecting To Psychiatry Portal[edit]

Hey, I just noticed that this project is included under the list of related projects in Psychology portal. I am currently working on remaking the Psychiatry portal. Wanted to know if it's right to include this under Psychiatry too (As Psychiatry is already included under the project's scope) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gadha1998 (talkcontribs) 11:22, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

I personally think working on portals is mostly a waste of time, because there is no mechanism to motivate readers to look at them. The neuroscience portal, for example, gets less than 50 page views per day (some of them no doubt from robots), whereas the nervous system article gets almost 3500. But to address your question, there is no problem with treating neuroscience as an area of psychiatry -- the medicine project already does something similar. Looie496 (talk) 16:33, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Facto Post – Issue 6 – 15 November 2017[edit]

Issue 6 – 15 November 2017
Facto Post – Issue 6 – 15 November 2017
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WikidataCon Berlin 28–9 October 2017[edit]

WikidataCon 2017 group photo

Under the heading rerum causas cognescere, the first ever Wikidata conference got under way in the Tagesspiegel building with two keynotes, One was on YAGO, about how a knowledge base conceived ten years ago if you assume automatic compilation from Wikipedia. The other was from manager Lydia Pintscher, on the "state of the data". Interesting rumours flourished: the mix'n'match tool and its 600+ datasets, mostly in digital humanities, to be taken off the hands of its author Magnus Manske by the WMF; a Wikibase incubator site is on its way. Announcements came in talks: structured data on Wikimedia Commons is scheduled to make substantive progress by 2019. The lexeme development on Wikidata is now not expected to make the Wiktionary sites redundant, but may facilitate automated compilation of dictionaries.

WD-FIST explained

And so it went, with five strands of talks and workshops, through to 11 pm on Saturday. Wikidata applies to GLAM work via metadata. It may be used in education, raises issues such as author disambiguation, and lends itself to different types of graphical display and reuse. Many millions of SPARQL queries are run on the site every day. Over the summer a large open science bibliography has come into existence there.

Wikidata's fifth birthday party on the Sunday brought matters to a close. See a dozen and more reports by other hands.

Links[edit]

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:02, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Neural network[edit]

I don't understand why this topic redirects to artificial neural network instead of biological neural network. In fact, I'm surprised that biological neural network isn't located at the page title "Neural network". Do others think it's worth creating a proposal to address this at WP:redirects for discussion? Seppi333 (Insert ) 22:50, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

There was a lot of discussion about this a couple of years ago, not that it precludes a change in consensus, of course. But here are links to the previous discussions, which should at least be taken into consideration: Talk:Biological neural network#Proposal to rename and restart, Talk:Neural network/Archive 2#Merger proposal - sorta, and Talk:Neural network#Proposed merge with Artificial neural network. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:25, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
Hmm. What do you think about changing neural network to a {{Set index}} article? There appears to be a mix of articles on neuroscience and machine learning topics that link to that page at the moment, so I don't think any of them need to be changed due to the present state of the links to that article. Seppi333 (Insert ) 01:01, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
@Tryptofish: Set index articles aren't DAB pages, so those backlinks won't need to be modified. Seppi333 (Insert ) 01:02, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
Edit: neural networks would also need to be redirected to neural network if it's turned into a set index page. Here's the list of the article backlinks to "Neural networks". Seppi333 (Insert ) 01:08, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
The idea of a set index article is an interesting one. (It's also a kind of page that I had never heard about before!) I'd like to hear other editors' opinions before really making up my mind about it. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:43, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Transporter reversal (i.e., Wikipedia's article on neurotransmitter efflux & reverse transport)[edit]

This article was nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Transporter reversal. I'm mentioning this here in the event anyone wishes to comment on this topic's WP:notability. Seppi333 (Insert ) 21:59, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Resolved: Closed as keep. Seppi333 (Insert ) 22:35, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
@Tryptofish: I'd be okay with merging Transporter reversal into Membrane transport protein as you suggested. What do others think about that merger? Seppi333 (Insert ) 22:35, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. Just to be clear, what I advocated was keeping the page and also doing a WP:Summary style merge into Membrane transport protein, so it's not a redirect-and-merge. I also think it would be a good idea to move it (over a redirect) from Transporter reversal to Reverse transport. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:53, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
I've moved the page to reverse transport. I summarized the concept (i.e., copy/pasted the lead paragraph) in Membrane transport protein#Reverse transport earlier today. Seppi333 (Insert ) 00:51, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
That looks very good to me, thanks. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:58, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject[edit]

Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_Neuroscience

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— Rod talk 17:38, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Facto Post – Issue 7 – 15 December 2017[edit]

Issue 7 – 15 December 2017
Facto Post – Issue 7 – 15 December 2017
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A new bibliographical landscape[edit]

At the beginning of December, Wikidata items on individual scientific articles passed the 10 million mark. This figure contrasts with the state of play in early summer, when there were around half a million. In the big picture, Wikidata is now documenting the scientific literature at a rate that is about eight times as fast as papers are published. As 2017 ends, progress is quite evident.

Behind this achievement are a technical advance (fatameh), and bots that do the lifting. Much more than dry migration of metadata is potentially involved, however. If paper A cites paper B, both papers having an item, a link can be created on Wikidata, and the information presented to both human readers, and machines. This cross-linking is one of the most significant aspects of the scientific literature, and now a long-sought open version is rapidly being built up.

WikiCite wordmark.svg

The effort for the lifting of copyright restrictions on citation data of this kind has had real momentum behind it during 2017. WikiCite and the I4OC have been pushing hard, with the result that on CrossRef over 50% of the citation data is open. Now the holdout publishers are being lobbied to release rights on citations.

But all that is just the beginning. Topics of papers are identified, authors disambiguated, with significant progress on the use of the four million ORCID IDs for researchers, and proposals formulated to identify methodology in a machine-readable way. P4510 on Wikidata has been introduced so that methodology can sit comfortably on items about papers.

More is on the way. OABot applies the unpaywall principle to Wikipedia referencing. It has been proposed that Wikidata could assist WorldCat in compiling the global history of book translation. Watch this space.

And make promoting #1lib1ref one of your New Year's resolutions. Happy holidays, all!

November 2017 map of geolocated Wikidata items, made by Addshore

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:54, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Facto Post – Issue 8 – 15 January 2018[edit]

Issue 8 – 15 January 2018
Facto Post – Issue 8 – 15 January 2018
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Metadata on the March[edit]

From the days of hard-copy liner notes on music albums, metadata have stood outside a piece or file, while adding to understanding of where it comes from, and some of what needs to be appreciated about its content. In the GLAM sector, the accumulation of accurate metadata for objects is key to the mission of an institution, and its presentation in cataloguing.

Today Wikipedia turns 17, with worlds still to conquer. Zooming out from the individual GLAM object to the ontology in which it is set, one such world becomes apparent: GLAMs use custom ontologies, and those introduce massive incompatibilities. From a recent article by sadads, we quote the observation that "vocabularies needed for many collections, topics and intellectual spaces defy the expectations of the larger professional communities." A job for the encyclopedist, certainly. But the data-minded Wikimedian has the advantages of Wikidata, starting with its multilingual data, and facility with aliases. The controlled vocabulary — sometimes referred to as a "thesaurus" as term of art — simplifies search: if a "spade" must be called that, rather than "shovel", it is easier to find all spade references. That control comes at a cost.

SVG pedestrian crosses road
Zebra crossing/crosswalk, Singapore

Case studies in that article show what can lie ahead. The schema crosswalk, in jargon, is a potential answer to the GLAM Babel of proliferating and expanding vocabularies. Even if you have no interest in Wikidata as such, simply vocabularies V and W, if both V and W are matched to Wikidata, then a "crosswalk" arises from term v in V to w in W, whenever v and w both match to the same item d in Wikidata.

For metadata mobility, match to Wikidata. It's apparently that simple: infrastructure requirements have turned out, so far, to be challenges that can be met.

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:38, 15 January 2018 (UTC)