Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numismatics/Archive 3

Proposed merged Template Infobox for Coins

Half dollar (United States)
Value:	0.5 U.S. Dollars
Mass:	11.340 g
Diameter:	30.61 mm
Thickness:	2.15 mm
Edge:	150 reeds
Composition:	91.66% Cu 8.33% Ni
Years of Minting:	1964–present
Catalog Number:	?
Obverse
Design:	John F. Kennedy
Designer:	Gilroy Roberts
Design Date:	1964
Reverse
Design:	Presidential Seal
Designer:	Frank Gasparro
Design Date:	1964

All right, here's my proposed new Coin infobox. I'm open to suggestions on the name. When I first created it, I chose the name "Coin infobox" to match the syntax used by the {{Album infobox}} which was where I had first seen template infoboxes. We can use some other name if desired.

I'm including a field for the Years of Minting, but please speak up if you'd like to see it done differently. In fact, please edit this infobox here on this page to make it how you like. I'll merge them after we've had sufficient time for discussion.

As to the Catalog Number, I agree that it would probably be an extremely valuable piece of information, but is it proprietary? I don't have a copy of the book you refer to, so I can't look it up. If they explicitly give permission to use their catalog numbers in other publications about coins, then I suspect it's kosher. I'll need some guidance from someone else more experienced about coins and coin collecting than I. Markkawika 10:59, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I didnt mean to say before that I didn't want a pic in the box, just not a human size one. I thinkthe tables should be standardized widths and standardized pixels for the pics. Something less than 1/3 of the page would be nice. I still dont like value, but see the need in it, maybe like decimalization of the base or such. years minted is ok, or coined dates, or "years placed in circulation" or "seires years" since the same pic will be used for a whole seris. other than that, cool. maybe some colorfor the edge, huh? wadya say?...be bold! ha, thought may look neat. I'm no good at tables :( Joe I 22:02, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I agree with you about reasonably-sized images. I'm using a 200-pixel wide picture in my current infobox. I've modified the example infobox on the right to show actual values along with images, not template parameters (if you don't know what that means, don't worry about it, just look at it). Too wide? I can go with 180 pixels or even smaller, whatever is reasonable. Feel free to muck around with the design yourself if you find the picture too large. Just change the "200px" to something smaller. Markkawika 09:10, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

About the catalog number being copyrighted, there is no explicit permission. I believe it's not for two reasons, but IANAL (I am not a lawyer). First, they use KM numbers (Krause-Mischler is the publisher) on some coins, and Y numbers (which they've taken from another catalog). Of course, they may have gotten permission to use the Y numbers. The second reason is that the KM numbers are used all over the internet to describe coins (by dealers and collectors). My admittedly limited understanding of copyright is that if it's not protected universally, it can't be claimed. But I don't really know. Mom2jandk 02:00, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Another thought: In the "years of minting" field, are we going to only refer to the design of the obverse & reverse? Or are we referring to composition? What happens if the reverse changes but the obverse does not (or vice versa)? What if the coin returns to a previous design in later years? I ask because, as a nice complicated example, the US Half dollar's obverse design has not changed since 1964, but the reverse design has (briefly), and the composition also has. If we're only referring to the obverse design, then the Half dollar would be 1964–present. If we're referring to the obverse & reverse design together, this coin would be 1964–1974; 1977–present. If, however, we are only referring to the 91.66% Cu/8.33% Ni composition of the current coin, that would be 1971–present. And if we want to be super picky, we can say the current obverse, reverse, and composition, and in that case it's 1971–1974; 1977–present. It gets complicated quickly. Markkawika 09:10, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

It does get complex. I'm not sure how it's generally handled with US coins where I know many collectors consider each date and mint mark to be significant. For world coins, I would tend to define a type however the catalog did (for The Standard Catalog of World Coins, I think a major composition change would count -- like a switch to clad or color change, but a minor change in the percentage wouldn't). I don't have the catalog in front of me now to check. If there's a standard catalog for US coin collectors, that would be my guide for US coins. Mom2jandk 02:00, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

I haven't seen that much feedback about this infobox. Can I assume that means no one objects? If not, I'll start converting coin pages over to use the new Coin infobox, and I'll also modify the main project page to describe how to do it with new articles. Markkawika 00:47, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

sorry, i changed pic from 200px to 150px. seems best size to me, others? I didnt try to shrink table width to fit tho.  :) Joe I 00:57, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

The table scales to the width of your browser. It was set at 30%, but that looked too big to me given the smaller images. I've just changed it to 25%. Seems better this way. Markkawika 21:00, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I haven't seen any discussion of the insertion of Catalog Number in the table. Mom2jandk requested it, but no one else has chimed in to agree or disagree. Should we have a vote on it? Markkawika 21:04, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Well I think we should set one up, so I've set one up (bottom of the page)

Added. Check the revised infobox now. Markkawika 23:11, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I think it would look nice to have the whole thing tied together with one color: goldenrod for the outside border with faint gold lines between cells. --Legal Tender 15:26, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

List of world commemorative coins

Please see List of world commemorative coins. I have links made up for each country individually, which I'm guessing isnt what you want, but other than that, I don't know. :) Joe I 01:03, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I've created the following items for commemorative coins Spain, Finland, Ireland and Italy. Is it OK for you ?--Flafla89 18:11, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. "My" article will only be about the €2 commemorative coins, anyway. You should probably list those, too, and link to €2 commemorative coins somehow. —Nightstallion (?) 18:16, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I would like to have some comments on the following items :

Commemorative coins of Spain, only a list of the coins

Commemorative coins of Belgium with photos of each coin

Is it better to have a global item with list and photos of the coins. Or do you prefer to have a list with links to individual item per commemorative coin ? Marc - --Flafla89 15:39, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

The item List of world commemorative coins is too long... I propose to use the direct link to "Commemorative coins of country" and to create a category Commemorative coins. Marc --Flafla89 09:11, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Infobox euro

Goodmorning everybody. Living in the Eurozone , I have some problems with the Infobox of the currency Euro in Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Sandbox : In the part reserved to the Country(ies) that use(s) this currency, you find the following items : Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, Vatican City, Kosovo, Montenegro, French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Réunion, Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, and Mayotte. As for me, that part should be subdivised :

• Today, 12 states are in the Eurozone and are allowed to print euros and mint euros with a their own national face : Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain
• 3 micro-states have the euro as official currency and are allowed only to mint coins with a their own national face (because bilateral conventions, either with France or Italy) : Monaco, San Marino, Vatican City.
• Andorre which used either French Franc or Spanish Peseta has decided to have euro as official currency. But Andorre is not allowed to print or to mint euro.
• In Kosovo, euro is the currency that the UN have decided to use : In accordance with UNMIK regulation No.1999/4 the Euro (“EUR”) was adopted as one of the official currencies in Kosovo from January 1, 2002. It replaced the German Mark (“DEM”) being then the measurement and reporting currency in the territory of Kosovo. Today, Euro is the most widely used currency in Kosovo.
• The Republic of Montenegro forms part of The Yugoslav Federation, but the official means of payment in Montenegro is euro. It was introduced on the basis of the Law on the Central Bank - as the replacement for the German mark that previously replaced dinar in 2000.
• Guadeloupe, Martinique, la Réunion are overseas département of France and are therefore not states but a integral part of the France.
• Saint-Pierre and Miquelon and Mayotte are French overseas collectivities

I am sure that you could make the same remarks with a currency as the United States dollar. Thank you to take part of these remarks. Marc --Flafla89 13:37, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Dividing it into different sections will be much too complicated. Leave that to the articles in question, which explain it in great detail. FYI: Andorra is in negotiations to be allowed to join the eurozone either this or next year, and the other three microstates are somehow part of the eurozone. —Nightstallion (?) 20:59, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Internal peer review request

My article (User:Nightstallion/sandbox, to be moved to €2 commemorative coins) is finished now. I'd like all of you to tell me what could be improved/improve upon it yourself, so that it can become a featured article. Thanks! =] —Nightstallion (?) 19:59, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Wow, I'm impressed. It's so nice to see many people working hard here. I didn't have the time to verify the facts, so I'll leave that to someone else. But the formatting is great. Once question, are the 16 German coins ordered in some special ways? --Chochopk 09:48, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah, yes, I wanted to add that. Done. 's it alright that way? —Nightstallion (?) 10:06, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Attention: Article now at FAC, please make yourself heard. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 19:29, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Liberty Dollars

Liberty Dollars are a private currency issued by "NORFED" in the United States, available as either coins or certificates. The marketing of this currency is surrounded by a number of claims, both about their own product and about US dollars (which they insist on calling "Federal Reserve Notes"). I am neither a numismatist nor a currency expert and find it hard to evaluate the claims. If more knowledgeable editors could keep an eye on the article I'm sure it would benefit. Thanks, -Will Beback 23:20, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Template

We have two European currency templates. Template:EuropeanCurrencies & Template:European currencies. The first is the one thats used, with nothing linkin to the second. We dont need both, does it matter which to use, or should we use the one with correct naming? Joe I 00:10, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I've actually thought that we might want to rename some of our templates to be more consistent with category names/page names. The categories for the XCurrencies templates will be Currencies of X. These can be renamed by bot. I'm not volunteering to do it, but thought I'd mention the possibility. Mostly, I've thought it would be helpful with the other templates which are not named consistently now (like "DK currency and coinage", "IrishCoins", "British Coins", etc). But I haven't brought it up before since I don't want to mess with it right now. Ingrid 02:12, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

ISO 4217

We do not have permission to publish ISO 4217. That is, unless someone wants to specifically ask them for it, and I doubt they'd grant the permission. Here's a quote from their site (I "bought" the update to the list for $0 and this is what I had to agree to before the download):

You are about to download material which is subject to strict copyright conditions. Please read these terms and conditions carefully. By accepting them, you are entering into a binding contract. In all countries, there are civil and criminal penalties for copyright infringements.

The document you download is the copyright of ISO, and may not be stored, reproduced, transferred or resold by any means, except as follows.

The document is a single-user, non-revisable Adobe Acrobat PDF file. You are purchasing a single-user licence to store this file on your personal computer.

You may print out and retain ONE printed copy of the PDF file.

This single-user licence and permission to print one copy is valid for each purchased and paid copy.

This printed copy is fully protected by national and international copyright laws, and may not be photocopied or reproduced in any form. Under no circumstances may it be resold. Under no circumstances may the electronic file you are licencing be copied, transferred, or placed on a network of any sort.

Ingrid 03:50, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Is the ISO 4217 publication or the ISO 4217 codes copyrighted? I doubt that three letter codes are copyrighted. – Zntrip 05:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

You're probably right, and these are widely used, so I doubt they could enforce a copyright even if they wanted to. What I'm referring to is using ISO 4217 to determine our page names for currencies. It seems to me like we'd have to publish the list to implement this policy. If someone has the list and wants to be consulted for each new article, that would be okay I guess, but no one has answered (yet) my questions about access to the list and specific names of pages I want to create. Ingrid 17:27, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I found this list: [1]. – Zntrip 17:57, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

That's good for current (and recently replaced) currencies. I'm wondering about much older currencies. Austro-Hungarian gulden, Rhodesian pound, Yugoslav dinar, CFA franc (before the two current ones), and many others. We currently rarely use different names for before and after a redenomination. I'd like to change that, but don't know what to call say Hungarian pengo and all the various pengo's which have replaced it. Ingrid 21:09, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I got the following from the CIA World Factbook [2]: “new Yugoslav dinar (YUM); note - in Montenegro the euro is legal tender; in Kosovo both the euro and the Yugoslav dinar are legal” of course, the CIA isn’t on the ball when in comes to the Serbian dinar, but I guess the new Yugoslav dinar’s ISO 4217 code was “YUM”. Also, the ISO 4217 page has the codes for old currencies that were around after the code was issued. The Austrio-Hungarian Empire fell before the ISO 4217 codes were around. I the best place to look would be in a coin collecing catallog.

I'm not asking what the ISO 4217 code for those currencies is. I'm asking what the pages should be called. Our current style guide says to use adjectival form of the country name followed by local denomination, but that's been under discussion. The vote above says to use the ISO 4217 name (with potentially some exceptions, but that hasn't been spelled out). I've been asking what name to use for the currencies listed above (not just the most recent Yugoslav dinar -- there have been several). Ingrid 23:14, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

recategorization

I've tagged some categories for renaming. Please feel free to comment/vote here. Ingrid 05:29, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

numismatics technical

Can somebody have a look at Double die? The article is marked as Too technical. Circeus 16:51, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Could you please explain what wording is to technical. I understood it all, so I can't tell. Joe I 22:24, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Not necessarily just the wording, but appropriate links (I didn't know where werethe correct articles) too in te explanation of the coining process, which, as a complete beotian, I found quite difficult to understand. If possible that long paragrpah would gain to be split. Circeus 13:52, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Old Taiwan dollar

I will split New Taiwan dollar to New Taiwan dollar and Old Taiwan dollar in order to accomedate the succession box project, as there are already examples of Turkish lira/Turkish new lira, and South Korean won/Korean hwan.

denomination capitalization (again)

The vote was to not capitalize denominations. Since our style guide says to use the local name of a currency though, does that mean that German currencies should be capitalized (because German nouns are always capitalized in German)? I think not, but my edits were reverted (and I'll abide by consensus, as always). Ingrid 23:47, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I would say not capitalize since that would throw everything off cause then we'd back at special circumstances for this and special circumstances for that, etc...etc...etc... Joe I 23:55, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

New Creations

I've added alot of new mainly historical articles to {{Money-stub}} from Dove's contributions. All of them have the {{Numismaticnotice}}, so no worries there. I'm pretty sure I got them all, Dove's a monster when it come to new ones  :). Joe I 23:52, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Question

Does anyone know how we are doing plurals of denomination? Such as 10 euros or 10 euro? I personnally like the no plural, but not sure that would work in all situations. Joe I 00:33, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

That's a good question. I like using the local form of the plural (since we use the local form of the denomination itself). I may have brought this up before, but can't remember. I once changed dinars in Yugoslav dinar to dinara and was reverted, with the explanation that several languages were used in the various Yugoslavias and thus several local plural forms are possible (I don't know if several forms of the singular were also used). Ingrid 00:45, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Commonwealth of Nations Numismatics

This sub-project (also known as Wikipedia:WikiProject British Commonwealth Numismatics) has been nominated for deletion. I'd like to invite you to participate in its discussion at WP:MFD. The members of this WikiProject are probably in the best position to judge its usefulness and suitability for Wikipedia, and it would be helpful to hear from you. Thanks! FreplySpang (talk) 02:41, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Japanese occupation money (WW2)

What is the best way to name those? I gave a temporary name like "Japanese occupation Malayan dollar". These currencies are all named after their respective original local currencies, i.e. rupee for Burma, peso for Philippines. I'm wondering what would be the best way name those? They were all issued by "The Japanese Government".
There is an article Japanese Military Yen. That page is primarily focus on Hong Kong, but this "currency" was really listed under China in the Standard Catalog of World Paper Money. The example shown is either China PM-15 or 16. Should I handle this Japanese occupation money differently? --Chochopk 07:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Naming convention

User:Dove1950 have been changing all the "Lebanese pound" term to "Lebanese livre". He claims it is according to numismatic style that I couldn't find. But why "Lebanese pound" shouldn't be used? Is it because we shouldn't use translations? Then the title must be "Livre Libanaise" and not "Lebanese livre". And "Lebanese pound" is a very common usage in english texts (see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)). And if we changed this name should we change also Egyptian pound to Egyptian Juneh or Syrian pound to Syrian lira? CG 19:22, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

There has been lots of discussion (some might say too much) here about what currency articles should be called. The final consensus (as near as I could determine it) has been incorporated into the numismatics style guide which says, basically, that we should use ISO 4217 names for current currencies, although no one has determined the exact details of this, since ISO 4217 is not always consistent. For older currencies, it should be the common name if there is such a thing and it is known, and if not, the English name of the country followed by the local name of the currency. So, for Lebanon, it should be "Lebanese pound". This is a recent update to the style guide, and Dove1950 may not be aware of it. I will post a note to his talk page. Ingrid 03:26, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Chinese currency at Wikipedia:Collaboration of the week

I was looking for some information on the history of chinese currency, ie first paper money, cash coins, cowrie shells etc. But could find nothing, I was kind of shocked at the absolute lack of information on this. I've nominated Chinese currency as a COTW, I think that the Chinese currency article should be about the history of currency in china and list the different forms they took, instead of just redirecting to it's current legal tender unit. If you're interested, you can vote to support it, or if you think that the article Chinese currency shouldn't be about it's history but it's current unit, then please raise concerns there as well. - Hahnchen 21:10, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

New Article

Someone posted a new article at 2000 Library of Congress Bimetallic Ten Dollar. Caps arn't gonna fly so I thought move to 2000 Library of Congress bimetallic ten dollar coin. Sound right? seems long, is all. Joe I 02:10, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Moved, with redirect Joe I 22:40, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Would like help and feedback

I've been developing a new version of Macanese pataca at User:AlbertR/Sandbox and would like feedback on my changes, and help with writing and researching it. You're welcome to edit it as you like. Alr 18:18, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project

Seeing as how much has been improved since the last time this was mentioned, I figured I'd state it again. :)

Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-class, B-class, and Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles? Please post your suggestions here or on this talk page. Thanks a lot! Gflores ^Talk 17:40, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

OK people, how bout we get a short list and we can work from there. Everyone post thier suggestions. Joe I 20:42, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

• Euro
• Dime (U.S. coin)
• Roman currency
• History of money needs work, but would be nice

Well, what about €2 commemorative coins? Only problem is that it needs to be updated regularily... —Nightstallion (?) 08:01, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for this list, sorry I had missed it till now. The Euro article IMHO looks like A-Class, and the Roman currency is getting there; the dime and history articles look like B-Class and need refs. I see that the 2 Euro coin article is already FA, congratulations! Would you agree with those assessments? Note:A-Class is roughly similar to "Good article" status. I'm not a money expert (I never seem to have any!) so I'd appreciate your expert opinions. Are there any others you would like to add? Please add new articles, comments and/or assessments to our table directly. Thanks! Walkerma 04:15, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Angolan Angolar

Dear administrators, regarding this 20th century Angolan currency, I would like to alert you that there are two entries on the same subject: 1-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolar_(currency) 2-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_angolar

Interestingly both have the wrong dates about its creation, one says 1926, the other 1932, when the date was really August 1st, 1928 (based on decrees published in August 26 and May 1928. Dates for its termination are also wrong, not 1954 but 1958 (although the legislation regarding its substituion by the Escudo was approved in late 1953. 196.46.0.6 08:48, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I made Angolar (currency) a redirect to Angolan angolar, but didn't change the dates since I'd like to double check them first and don't have time right now. You could make the change yourself though. Ingrid 18:43, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

German ww2 occupation currency

Anythoughts on the currency issued be the german military in ww2 for its occupied territories of U.S.S.R and ukrain? And any other areas of issue. Enlil Ninlil 09:25, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

category

I have concerns about the categoy "Circulating currencies". Many articles that fit in that include this category (hard coded). But the category "Circulating currencies" are already inside the template like {{AsianCurrencies}} or {{africanCurrencies}} (actually all 4). So we can get rid of the repeated ones in those individual articles. --Chochopk 11:30, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I just finished the African currencies. --Chochopk 12:12, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Standardized procedure of creating/updating an article

I can't stand the inconsistency anymore! So I'm proposing that if we create/update any currency article, we should follow this format:

Suggested style moved to Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Style/Currency article. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 03:32, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

What do you think? --Chochopk 10:02, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I am against only using the USD in the rates, that's USA-centric. At least use the euro as well, possibly one more for diversity. —Nightstallion (?) 12:13, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh, that's just an example. As you can see, you can put whatever you want there. --Chochopk 18:29, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Ah, okay. In principle, it looks fine to me. —Nightstallion (?) 20:53, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I think it looks good too. In fact, it should probably go in the style guide, perhaps as a separate page. Have you considered how this would work with mature articles? It definitely seems great for stubs, and smaller articles. For consistency, larger and more mature articles should probably also follow a similar pattern, but may also have lots of other information. Ingrid 03:23, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

I think it is the best format to use too. – Zntrip 05:23, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you all for your support. For mature articles like euro, USD, CAD, just put the sections in their most appropriate places. If we were to adapt this, there is a lot of work to do..... Did I say that I hate inconsistencies? =) --Chochopk 13:57, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

I finally finished the articles about the Korean currencies. Kind Wikipedians, could you help reviewing? You can start from Etymology of the Korean Currencies (a new article), and there are links. --Chochopk 12:29, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Need to merge

Yuan and Chinese yuan --Chochopk 01:30, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

When I was doing some preliminary work for the merge, I realize the article Renminbi may not be a good one. (Yes, I know this naming convention is debated to death). What about Chinese Renminbi yuan? "Renmin" means "people's", "bi" means currency, and yuan is the unit. So the logic behind this is like Argentine peso moneda nacional, Argentine peso ley --Chochopk 11:15, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

"Chinese Renminbi yuan" sounds too reundant for its own good. What's wrong with "renminbi" on its own? It's either called the renminbi or the yuan, not both at once. The existing naming conventions call for most common name to be the title (where accurate and nautral), not use for all the common names to be in the title at once. We dont have an article on "James Earl Jimmy Carter", but an article on Jimmy Carter.--Jiang 13:02, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

If anyone here is interested in this subject, please see Talk:Yuan. --Chochopk 01:05, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Par

I figure this is the best place to ask. This edit added "at par" in terms of currency to Par value. I'm certainly familiar with the expression of currencies "trading at par". But I've never heard the term "par value" used in this respect. I don't intend to follow this up further myself, but if someone here wants to weigh in on that article or its talk page, please do. - Jmabel | Talk 18:34, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Token (numismatics) and Token coins

I've just replaced the merge tag on Token coins. The two articles seem essentially to duplicate information, and it would be helpful to get feedback from other users regarding the proposed merge. Humansdorpie 14:27, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Merged into Token coins, redirect at Token (numismatics). I got the obivious stuff megerd and assimilated together, but I'm sure there is still alittle redudnant stuffs. Thnx Humansdorpie :) Joe I 01:49, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Scope of the project

I was just wondering if anyone else thinks that this project is maybe a bit too large (or perhaps just not clearly defined). I have been writing a bot to automatically update the project watchlist articles list. It finds all articles with {{Numismaticnotice}} and makes the list out of them. Well, I thought, why not just traverse the category hierarchy instead. This would work, but there are many, many articles in subcategories of Category:Numismatics without the tag. See, for example, Category:Orders and decorations which has a large number of subcategories, none of which are linked. If this is really WikiProject:Numismatics (as opposed to say WikiProject:Currency, which is what most of the discussion seems to relate to), then they should definitely be included as Orders and decorations definitely count as part of numismatics. But I don't want to clutter the watchlist with things that I (and presumably most of you, but correct me if I'm wrong) don't care much about. Then there's the fact that Orders and decorations also has subcategories for awards (like Category:Australian awards which includes Category:Australian Football League awards which are not part of numismatics). I don't really want to fix it, but don't like it the way it is either. Any thoughts? Anyone but me care? Ingrid 21:55, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I updated the article list by traversing the category hierarchy. I only went for Category:Orders and decorations, not any of its subcategories, even though many of them are appropriate (it was an automated browse, so I couldn't easily check each one). If anyone is interested in tagging articles/categories/templates, this diff will show you many pages that need it (about 230). [3] Ingrid 02:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Orders and Decorations are part of Numismatics thru Exomunia, but I neither care to much for them. I started taggin a few way back, but was reverted on one, so decided not to include them. I would still prefer not to include, and hope one day, someone will start a Exomunia project. But, untill that does happen, I suppose it falls under us. I'll wait and see what others think, then start taggin tommorrow...I like the tags...

Or we could start Wikipedia:WikiProject Exomunia, tag everything, and let it die till someone who cares comes along...:)...Joe I 02:58, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I know you're joking, but maybe it's not such a bad idea. I don't think creating a project is right if there's no interest yet, but maybe a new template which points to this project for now, but could be modified to point to a subproject later. Then, I can create two article pages (one for each template), and everyone's happy (I think). Ingrid 01:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

OK, well, we got a notice, I started taggin a few. I put up a dead link wikiproject on the main page. Maybe not to cool to have a dead link project, but wanted people to know it was available. Does anyone feel like or think we should make a stub template? Joe I 03:36, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

And as I just mentioned on Joe's talk page, I'm working on a bot to tag articles automatically, so no one needs to bother doing it by hand anymore. Ingrid 03:34, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Achaemenid currency

Can anyone help with the currencies of persia? We need a Parthian and Sassanian page. Ancient currencies are really under represented in this group.Enlil Ninlil 04:16, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I have some knowledge of Sassanian coinage and have to spend some time researching some that I have, that are not identified yet. I have a good book on that topic by Gõbl as well as a mentor who has been in the ancient coin business for over 30 years. I am certain that in his vast library of numismatic references, he has books on both topics and I can therefore glean some information, from them, in order to teach myself about them. I hope to be able to start entering some information about Sassanian and Parthian coinage within a couple of weeks. Heritagecoinshop 09:31, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

1943 steel cent

I cleaned-up the 1943 steel cent page and gave it a proper infobox and additional info from stub status, can someone whom is more experenced than me take a look and check it out and do any additional edits as deemed fit? --293.xx.xxx.xx 08:57, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Ruble

I'm preparing to make ruble a page of its own, a page like peso, escudo, or franc, because there are more than 1 kind of ruble. And what's up with "Compendium of postage stamp issuers"? Why can't these stamp collectors make the links correct.... Here's what I'll do

1. Soviet ruble redirects to Russian ruble (at least for now)(done)
2. Pages that links to Rouble, Roubles, Ruble, Rubles will link to Russian ruble, or Soviet ruble, or whatever the appropriate ruble depending on the context
3. 3 of the 4 variations above will redirects to Ruble
4. Ruble disambig with Russian ruble, Belarusian ruble, Azerbaijani ruble etc.

--Chochopk 09:46, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Euro categories

I could use some help recategorizing Euro-related articles. When Category:Euro became Category:Currencies of the Eurozone, it ended up not making as much sense. Now my bot is tagging all articles in that category, and that's not right Eonia already had a message on the talk page when someone had put Numismaticnotice there previously. So, I'd like to split the category. Perhaps recreated Category:Euro with stuff that's not numismatic in it? Any thoughts? Ingrid 15:33, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Serious Link Spamming ? >> Fixed!

A new user [| Bobby131313 ] has been putting links to some coin community site into a bunch of the US coin articles...

Examples... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarter_%28U.S._coin%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_%28U.S._coin%29

I got tired of cleaning it all up. What can be done? --70.225.42.53 13:26, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

For the anon who cares; He emailed me and apologized. He was just tryin to get out specific info. He said he would consolidate the links, and try to clean up what was already done. :) Joe I 00:36, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Cleaned up :) I think I fixed them all, if I missed any please let me know. I'm looking forward to contributing. As I told Joe, I have literally thousands of coin photos (good ones:-) on my PC if anyone needs a specific image let me know, I'll see if I have it. We also have a very extensive numismatic library so feel free email me if you need something looked up. Thanks for being patient with the newbie. Bobby 05:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

US Commemorative Images

Joe left a message on my talk page that pretty much all US Commemorative images are needed. I am in the process of moving over the next 6 weeks or so and won't have the time to do much major editing (still have to learn how to do major stuff) so I went through my archives and came up with a ton of images. These are all 100% my images, I took them myself. If any one wants to use them here, they're all yours. I threw this page together with descriptions...

http://www.coincommunity.com/zmisc/commemorative_photos.htm Bobby 05:09, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey, thnx for the quick work on that page. I've downloaded them all onto my comp. I uploaded 2 to test it out(my first uploads:). Please check them out, make sure you concure with the licensing and such. I'm not sure if it'll come back since I'm not the auther. Anyways, if everything jives, I'll get the rest done later this week. THNX again, invaluable.  :) Joe I 23:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

A straight on scan without any changes to it or aristic compilation, etc. does not qualify for a new copyright status. The coins should use the U.S. money copyright tag. --Kurt 23:59, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Whatever needs to be done is fine with me, I just hope they're useful! Bobby 00:04, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Help with Copyright

OK, I just went to upload some significantly better images to the seated liberty coinage page. I'm confused about which copyright to pick. I took the photos myself, they should fall under the "us coinage" uncopyrightable clause, but I don't see that as an option. I see "ineligible for copyright" and "work of a government agency". How do I get the one that says "This is a unit of US currency.....", which is what it should be? Bobby 04:35, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Don't select anything from the list of licensing on the page where you upload the file. Instead, in the item's description, type {{money-US}}. This will create the copyright tag for you. --Kurt 07:33, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Kurt. I've updated the top two images here .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Seated_Liberty_coinage , can you have a look and see if I did it OK? Thanks. Bobby 13:40, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I am interested by your opinion about the copyrights on the coins. As you know, there are

(1) normal circulation coins

The normal circulation coins (you can find them in your pocket) are usual objects minted in a very large number.

(2) commemorative coins

These coins are not destined for circulation. Most of the time, you have to buy them (via your bank).

Is it necessary to indicate a copyright on a personnal scan of coins (1) and coins (2) ? Is the rule the same for UK and USA ?

Thank you- --Flafla89 14:36, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I can't speak to UK law, but US law has generally held that photographs or scans of original artwork are not themselves copyrightable unless the photograph has some sort of independent artistic merit. This, in effect, means that all these people with coin scans on their sites saying "copyright [whomever]" are self-delusional, and that their images are uncopyrightable (and therefore fair game for Wikipedia). That's not a legal argument I really want to get into without talking further with a copyright lawyer, though.--chris.lawson 03:46, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Demand Note Featured article peer review

I would appreciate any suggestions the Demand Note article and whether or not you think it meets the Wikipedia featured article status. Thanks --Kurt 06:21, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Really need YOUR help

Alright, so the Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Demand Note discusion has gotten pretty heated over the image used in the lead section. Basically, the dispute is whether or not the image in the lead section (top of the page) is appropriate there at all.

I would appreciate ANY ONES (even if you have no knowledge of what a Demand Note is) thoughts on the matter to be posted at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Demand Note.

Oh, go ahead and start a new comment by typing * '''Comment''': and then your comment on a new line.

--Kurt 04:40, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Need Some Opinions

If I could get some opinions here I'd really appreciate it. Thanks. Bobby 01:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

FAO coins

FAO coin

I have a few FAO coins from different countries but dont understand what they are for.. is there an article about them? It says here that 114 countries have issued FAO coins -- Astrokey44|talk 12:05, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Khaleeji

Can someone please find a source verifying that that is indeed the name proposed for the common currency of the GCC? Thanks! —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 21:56, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

ToDo list

Hey, I started a new todo template. It can be added to user pages and such by adding:{{Numitasks}}. I think the other one was to unusual, to big, and to hard to update for people to take advantage of. I'll be filling it in as I can. I'll put it on the main page when it seems more people like it. Joe I 01:19, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I've removed this Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/to do, if you want it back lemme know. Joe I 10:01, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I've also added this: Portal:Numismatics

Take a look, lemme know what to change. Please someone find a new color! Joe I 06:22, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Featured Pic

I've added Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/FOUREFFIGIES. Please see. :) Joe I 10:17, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

US $10 currency

As you're probably aware, a new $10 note was put into circulation recently. The image that was on United States ten-dollar bill was from moneyfactory.gov and suffered (I think) from a number of problems:

1. It was labeled with "SPECIMEN"
2. It didn't represent the correct colors of the notes in circulation

I've uploaded an image of a note I received recently which more accurately represents the colors of the note and does not contain "SPECIMEN" on it. See Image:US $10 Series 2004 face.jpg. The old moneyfactory.gov image was at the same filename; you can see it by looking at the image history at the bottom of the page.

My question is two-fold:

1. From a legal standpoint, is it okay to use an image like this (it's relatively high resolution, but you'd need a much higher resolution scan to do anything illegal I'd think)?
2. Does anyone have any problem with the image I've uploaded?

If there's no legal issue, and assuming there's no problem with the face image, I'll scan and upload a matching back image of the note. —Locke Cole • t • c 05:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Unit of account

This 'miscellaneous' close to this article has a brief discussion of the electron as a unit of account. This is geeking out for its own sake; there's no real purpose for and no significant literature on subatomic particles as currency. Suggest deleting the whole block.

I would suggest putting that comment on the talk page of the article Joe I 20:26, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Template:USD

Heads up: there's a relatively unused United States dollar formatting template {{USD}} available, for...uh, use. jareha ^(comments) 08:16, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

This template is under discussion for deletion, if you have a considered opinion on this, see Template talk:USD. Also, if you use this template, use {{subst:USD|100}} so that it is directly inserted into the article and does not tax the servers by repeated referencing (this will also make it so the text will still be there if the template does get deleted). -- Centrx 04:06, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

USD template does not agree with Wikipedia Manual of Style

Can you please look into this, see comment at Template talk:USD. Thanks.

Samsara (talk • contribs) 15:17, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

infoboxes and catagories

The infoboxes {{EuropeanCurrencies}} - {{AsianCurrencies}} - {{AfricanCurrencies}} - {{AmericanCurrencies}} all add categories to the articles they are placed in. This is problematic for currencies that are already in a subcategory of that categories (for example Israeli new sheqel is in both category:Currencies of Asia and the Pacific and Category:Currencies of Israel. Perhaps the templates can be moved to for example {{EuropeanCurrencies-nc}} (nc=no catagory) without the category addition and the current templates changed to {{EuropeanCurrencies-nc}} with the addition of categories afterwards. I would have done it myself but I don't fell comfortable making such large changes to templates. Jon513 19:17, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

"___ Coinage" or "Coins of ___"

What is the proper name for an article about coins from a certain country? I see both of the above conventions being used interchangeably. In fact, this issue came up because there are currently two articles on Canadian coinage, Canadian coinage and Coins of Canada. Has the Numismatics wikiproject come up with a favored article name format?

Examples of the first format are: British coinage, Scottish coinage, United States coinage

Examples of the second format are: Coins of the South African Republic. This also seems to be the preferred format for the coin categories.

Other formats seem to be: Coinage of the Republic of Ireland

What should be the standard naming convention on Wikipedia?

I belive we should use the long form of the country's name like Coinage of the Republic of Ireland instead of Irish coinage as it narrows the time frame and area of issue. And Irish is the people and language and not the place the soil, that is Ireland. Just some pointer's.Enlil Ninlil 06:18, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Numismatic associations

I have added stubs for Royal Numismatic Society, Canadian Numismatic Association and Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand. Someone else had earlier created Presidents of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand, which only lists two people. People who know more about these groups may want to expand these articles. TruthbringerToronto 05:53, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi all, I'm back

Hi, I know I've been away for a while. Now that I'm a little relieved with my real life, I can come back and continue what I've working on. I wish to resume the effort of bring currency article to conform the above mentioned style. Currencies of East Asia are pretty much done. I'm moving on to CIS members (Uzbekistani som is the first). Anyone interested in the same thing, let's collaborate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chochopk (talk • contribs) 11:30, 30 May 2006.

Mint mark vs. mintmark

Please see discussion on Talk:Mint mark--chris.lawson 02:02, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Boutnies

Added this if anyone's interested.  :) Joe I 03:26, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Seleucid coinage

Can anyone help with this? Enlil Ninlil 06:38, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Decimal and pre-decimal half penny coins

I've just come across a rather awkwardly named pair of articles on two completely different coins: British Half Penny coin and British Halfpenny coin. The former refers to the pre-decimal coin (worth one half of an old penny, ceased to be legal tender in 1969) and the latter to the decimal coin (worth one half of a new penny, ceased to be legal tender in 1984). To the layman, neither title refers unambiguously to one or the other, and so a casual reader typing one into his address bar may or may not come across the article he is looking for.

I suggest moving the decimal article to British decimal half penny coin and the pre-decimal article to British pre-decimal halfpenny coin, with the old titles redirecting to British half penny coin (disambiguation). There is already a disambiguation page at Half penny, but that includes the Irish halfpenny.

Hairy Dude 22:26, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Awards

I award you this Golden Eagle for your numismatics-related contributions.

I award you this three-cent piece for your numismatics-related contributions.

I and a few others have given out a numismatic award for good contributors. I think it's good for a community to show appreciation where it's warrented. I figured I'd put it up for a vote, cause there are a few more I'd like to give away. Currently only these two have been used. We only have a two sided pic of a Saint Gaudens Double Eagle or I would of included that one. Any other suggestions are accepted. Joe I 08:29, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

• three-cent piece is my vote cause it allready incorperates the star design of a barnstar.Joe I 08:29, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd prefer an ancient coin maybe Greek or chinese. Enlil Ninlil 09:35, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Infobox Currency

I have finished drafting Template:Infobox Currency, and you can look at its discussion page for instruction, and Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Sandbox for sample outputs. It is much better than Template:Currency box. Any comment is appreciated.

--Chochopk 09:30, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Great work! Start implementing it in articles, then. =] —Nightstallion (?) 10:01, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

One thing I'm not sure about is the "pegged with" and "pegged by" relationship. What about currencies like Singapore dollar and Brunei dollar. I guess there's no "leader-follower" relationship in that case, nor does the case of Belgian and Luxembourgian franc. I thought about make it "bilateral peg", but then we would have to make the distinction between bilateral and unilateral in every case, which is a pain. --Chochopk 18:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Resources

I've added Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/External resources. Please add to this as you see fit. Joe I 16:44, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

List of circulating currencies

I've added Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of circulating currencies. If anyone as added to this page, please provide references used. :) Joe I 10:46, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Attempt to make a featured article

As a member of this fine WikiProject, I am going to try my hand at making British Sovereign coin a featured article (or, at least, a good article.) Any assistance or advice is most welcome. Incidentally, is the article's title definitely the correct one? Thanks, Paul 18:57, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow, scant information available about the sovereign...I'll try to find another suitable candidate. Paul 19:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Try looking on the to-do list, there's a section to improve to FA. I have more in my head somewhere...  :) Joe I 08:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

American Buffalo 24-Karat Gold Coins

Where does info on the new American Buffalo 24-Karat Gold Coins go?

Right here Joe I 05:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I did search for it, but I guess the search wasn't caught up yet. 71.199.123.24 07:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I added this as well, please have a say. :) Joe I 08:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Template

I've added Template:Infobox Note based on Template:Infobox Coin. Any suggestions on anything to add? I'll add an example or two in the sandbox. Joe I 11:09, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Here are my humble suggestions:

1. Rename to "Infobox Banknote", as "Note" can mean many things
2. Many attributes are hard to find, especially "Designer". How about making them optional
3. How about adding list of "security features" (or "anti-counterfeit devices"), year of issue, year that cease to be legal tender, deadline of redeption, printer, signature, watermark

I might make modification directly there... --Chochopk 15:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Civil War token

Do we have any articles dealing with (American) Civil War tokens? I've looked around and can't seem to find any. If not, I'd be happy to get the ball rolling. --cholmes75 (chit chat) 18:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

This is the only civil war article I know of, and I'm sure it's not in there. Joe I 22:55, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, I went ahead and started the Civil War token article. I will be adding more in the coming days. --cholmes75 (chit chat) 01:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Sweet! On the front page of Wikipedia there is a bit from the article in the Did You Know? section. --cholmes75 (chit chat) 13:57, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Award

Moved from main page. Joe I 22:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps someone would like to go and support an award for this wikiproject on the award proposal page? The idea is about to be archived.--evrik 17:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Rampant Deletions

Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gallery of coins. Thnx Joe I 16:39, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Peace Dollar - Good Article

Just thought you would all like to know that Peace Dollar was just listed as a Good Article! --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 03:03, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Great, it looked really good to me. Shouldn't be to hard to bump it up to FA now. :) Joe I 03:48, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Shall I nominate it, or get a peer review first? --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 15:43, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Probly peer review, cause I'm sure there will be issues to come up. That'll give ya time to fix em. Joe I 09:33, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll do that in the next few days. --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 02:00, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

• I sent it up for peer review last week, and have acted upon some of the advice given. I would love to have a few more people take a look at it before it gets nominated as a Featured Article. --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 15:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

dollar, peso, franc, dinar, ruble, pound, escudo template

So there's a navigational template for currencies name rupee, and another for crown/krone. So by the same token, shouldn't we also make some for dollar, peso, franc, dinar, ruble, pound, and escudo? (well, I can see that whether or not lira/livre is the same as pound will be brought up again) --Chochopk 11:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that's a good idea, but how many rubles and escudos are there? Joe I 09:35, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Not sure how many rubles and escudos are there exactly. We should start with units with larger number of articles.

But before publishing it to live, there's a more important issue: the issue of "semi-currency".

• Are Kiribati dollar, Andorran peseta, Cook Islands dollar, Panamanian balboa currencies? (not en exhaustive list here)

Andorran peseta, Panamanian balboa -no cause not dollars - Kiribati dollar - no cause "not an independent currency" Joe I 10:51, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

• Do they deserve to be put on navigational boxes?
• What kind of categories should be assign to them?

Category:Dollar Joe I 10:51, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

• What should be written in the country/territory article?

And by the way, the list on currency is completely outdated. --Chochopk 21:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

See discussion at User talk:Chochopk#Liechtenstein frank. --Chochopk 04:11, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

What about yuan? "Yuan" is the English name for CNY, but it's also the Chinese name for a variety of currencies, e.g. EUR, USD, JPY, HKD, TWD, MOP, CNY, KPW, KRW etc. (Stefan2 16:05, 16 July 2006 (UTC))

In that case, all the yuan would be merged with dollar. By the same logic, ringgit should be merged as well. But this is an English wiki. --Chochopk 23:27, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Featured portal

Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Numismatics Joe I 10:06, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Now a Featured Portal  :) Joe I 10:41, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

List of currencies

Does anyone know why there is a list of currencies on the currency page? There’s already a list of currencies, a list of circulating currencies, and a list of historic currencies. – Zntrip 02:55, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the one on Currency was left over after the list was created. I would suggest making sure everthing is included on list of currencies and deleting off of Currency. Joe I 03:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Collaborations

Anyone feel like doing something of a collaboration of the month, or such? Joe I 07:20, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Count me in. I have maintained my onw to-do list for the past. Unfortunately, it grows larger. Check out my user page. --Chochopk 09:05, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

The current Numismatic Collaboration of the Month is Ancient Greek coinage. Every month a different Numismatic-related topic, stub or non-existent article is picked. Please read the nomination text and improve the article any way you can.

See Wikipedia:Numismatic Collaboration of the Month. Joe I 09:55, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

So does that mean only 1 article is chosen per month? --Chochopk 02:55, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, just one, whichever has the most people supporting it after the nomination period. Joe I 03:31, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

The end of the month draws near and with it the beginning of our first collaboration. However, we are in need of more support for nominated articles before one can be chosen. Please goto Wikipedia:Numismatic Collaboration of the Month and support one or more articles. Joe I 22:51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Infobox Currency release note

I made some changes a few days ago. So this release note is long due.

• Don't need to copy the article name for currency_name anymore. It is now automatic
• Added ERM_withdraw (for pound sterling and Italian lira)
• Added subunit_inline_note_*. Use this if you want to display some explanation right next to the subunit
• Added nickname, both the main unit and subunit
• Added plural. It's nice to put this in the infobox. Use plural_slavic or no_plural when appropriate
• More detailed style guide

--Chochopk 21:32, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

German unit

I know this is an old subject, but German unit is still not resolved. I am now proposing

• German mark -> German Mark
• East German mark -> East German Mark
• German reichsmark -> German Reichsmark
• German rentenmark -> German Rentenmark
• similar cases in Category:German currencies
• Austrian schilling -> Austrian Schilling
• Austro-Hungarian krone -> Austro-Hungarian Krone
• Liechtenstein krone -> Liechtenstein Krone
• Liechtenstein frank -> Liechtenstein Frank

and so on

And all instances in the text to upper case.

The reason for this is there has been a consensus to use <adjective form of country> <currency unit in local form>, and use plural of the local form when talking about it in the article (i.e. Not Japanese yens, but yen. Not 10 Marks/marks but 10 Mark/mark). And I believe capitalization is part of a language's grammar. Therefore, the cap.

If you read this, please respond. The inconsistency now is out of control. And I have engaged in a small revert war recently.

Thank you. --Chochopk 22:57, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

If nobody responds, I will just do it. --Chochopk 12:15, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with that. I will help you if you want. Johann Wolfgang 17:48, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Srongly oppose this violation of naming conventions, Septentrionalis 00:50, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The convention says "Use the local name for the denomination", and that includes grammar of plural, spelling and capitalization. Althought I just added the thing about plural and cap on the style guide, the older stuff implied it as well, as capitalization is part of the local "form". And I did ask around, here, at the talk page of German mark, talk pages of individual users, and nobody complained. --Chochopk 00:55, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

False; you have received much opposition, and no support, at Talk:German mark, which is how I got here. Septentrionalis 01:02, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

CFA franc

Should this page be split in two? It is about two currencies after all. – Zntrip 04:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Beware of interwiki. --Chochopk 04:39, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

It's actually about more than two, but there are only two left now. One of my plans, before I ended up taking an extended wikibreak was to completely update the article. I never really got started. Global Financial Data has a page that's just about the CFA franc. Talk:CFA franc has a link to it. If you split it, there is a question of what to call the new pages. The coins say "West African CFA franc" and "Central African CFA franc" (or something similar, in French), but the ISO calls them CFA Franc BEAC and CFA Franc BCEAO (or something similar -- I'm going from memory). As a collector, the former are more familiar and logical to me, but more people seem to prefer ISO (which I'm not a fan of personally). At /Sandbox/Succession, I started charting the succession of the CFA francs, and it's a bit confusing because the currencies were/are worth the same amount but do not circulate across borders. The info I found on the web (GFD and TMMF -- see succession page for links) was not always detailed and didn't always agree. I would love to see this area improved, but got too engrossed in it last time I tried. Ingrid 05:06, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd be in favour of naoming them Western African CFA franc and Central African CFA franc, but I know too little and have too little time currently to delve into this. —Nightstallion (?) 11:53, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Some images

[4] [5] [6] are all very similar and should probably be merged. The only differences are the colours used, and the Faroe Islands, which is listed as ERM II on one map but not on the other two maps. [7] is also similar, and should maybe be merged with the other ones. Note that different colours are used on different images, so, in the event of a merge, references to the images on various pages will have to be updated with the colours of the merged image. (Stefan2 09:08, 17 July 2006 (UTC))

I agree. But I, for one, do not have the resource to do it. My to-do list is already too long. Please put them on Commons. --Chochopk 09:49, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Nightstallion or the originator of the maps User:The Tom, may be able to help you more than we can.  :) Joe I 15:27, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Assessment

I've added Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Assessment for use in Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team. Nothing really hard to it, most articles have {{Numismaticnotice}} allready, all anyone has to do is add the optional parameters. There are only three: class, importance, attention. Simply add into the current notice like so {{tl|Numismaticnotice|class= |importance= |attention}}. If you add class or importance, please add the other(class or importance), even if you're not sure of it. Full instructions at Template talk:Numismaticnotice. Please read all of Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Assessment and Template talk:Numismaticnotice, before implementing, so you're sure of the grading scales and syntax. Whoever gets all of Category:Numismatics done before lunch time, gets a cookie...hahaha, my cookie...!!!  :) Joe I 15:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Help needed

If anyone could help to refine and put more content in the following articles, that would be great. They are: Achaemenid currency, Elymais, Roman provincial coins, Seleucid coinage, Nabataean coinage and the South Vietnamese đồng Thankyou. Enlil Ninlil 06:45, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Articles in the project

I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on whether Category:Payment systems belongs in the project. User:WatchlistBot has recently tagged all articles in all categories that are in the project (see list). I've gotten complaints about Norman Technologies and Time value of money. I've taken care of those two examples, but am not sure about the rest of the category, or some of the subcategories which seem like maybe they're exonumia, but I'm really not sure. Help please. Ingrid 18:05, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

My current thought is that

• Category:Ancient mints needs to have each article considered individually -- many are just cities where there used to be a mint, but the article barely mentions the mint.
• Category:Eurozone fiscal matters also needs to be checked individually
• Category:Community currencies, Category:Computer and video game currencies, Category:Contactless smartcards, Category:Credit cards, Category:Debit cards, Category:Digital gold currencies, Category:Electronic currencies, Category:Fictional currencies, Category:Private currencies should be moved to exonumia (should be a subcat of Category:Exonumia and use {{Exonumianotice}}

  All should be moved. Exonumia says "It is related to numismatics proper (concerned with coins which have been legal tender), ". Joe I 05:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I've moved these categories, and retagged the articles. Ingrid 03:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

• Category:Payment systems, Category:Digital gold currency exchangers, Category:Foreign exchange market, Category:Futures exchanges should not be in the project.
• Category:Monetary hegemony, Category:Monetary reform I don't know whether these should be included, I'm guessing not

I haven't gone through the whole list yet, but I have to run. I'll add more later. Ingrid 21:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC) Just finished the whole list of categories (I put the new ones in above) Ingrid 21:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

If no one replies, I'll go ahead an implement the changes. Ingrid 22:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't think Category:Payment systems, Category:Digital gold currency exchangers and Category:Futures exchanges should be in the project at all, we should be more worried about the payment rather than the system in which payment is made. Not sure about Category:Foreign exchange market, maybe just check articles individually? Category:Monetary reform seems to have only a few articles that should concern us. Category:Monetary hegemony doesn't seem like it should be included, but the various "petro" currencies should. Joe I 05:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I took out the three you mentioned. Category:Foreign exchange market, Category:Monetary reform, Category:Monetary hegemony I didn't touch, since I really feel like I don't know. Ingrid 03:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Collaboration

The current Numismatic Collaboration of the Month is Ancient Greek coinage. Every month a different Numismatic-related topic, stub or non-existent article is picked. Please read the nomination text and improve the article any way you can.

Templates

{{Peso}} has been implemented on all but Spanish dollar(it redirected from Spanish peso, so I wasn't sure}. Look em over see what ya think, and barring any objections, the rest will be implemented soon. Joe I 18:47, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Good news

We received a permission mail (OTRS ticket number 2006080810014758): I hereby agree to grant Wikimedia full permission to use any coin images from my webpages at worldcoingallery.com under terms of the GNU Free Documentation License. Owner of http://worldcoingallery.com. Its validity can be confirmed by anyone who has access to OTRS.

I don't know how licensing of coins works here on enwiki, but this might be good news for you! --Timichal 11:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Update {{WorldCoin}} then? --Chochopk 12:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, I was told on a copyright help page that you can't own copyright on a scan, since there is no creative input. So, we can use any paper money scan we find anywhere without copyright concerns. Use one of the tags from Category:Currency copyright tags, and mention where you got the image in the notes. Coins are more complicated, since they are 3-D and there might be issues of composition (lighting, background, etc.) Ingrid 18:33, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Talking about good news (Ticket# 2006092710009217): The same goes for http://www.cngcoins.com : They also allowed us to use everything unter GFDL & CC-BY-SA as long as they get credit for it. --Flominator 20:07, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

What happens to old money?

Someone on the Wikipedia:Drawing board has come up with an article idea that might be of interest to this WikiProject. Please see the Wikipedia:Drawing board#Fed Shreds section.

Lots of pics

Lots of medal pictures at [8] don't know if somone more knowledgable than me wants to approach them with a view of getting them all released under GFDL? AndrewRT - Talk 20:28, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Adjectival forms

I just saw this List of adjectival forms of place names. Some of the adjectival forms are different from the ones we use. Ingrid 20:13, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I thought some of ours were local adjectival? Joe I 19:55, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Norwegian coin history

I just found this page about 1000 years of Norwegian coin history. It is unfortunately in Norwegian, but if you don't understand that language it is still interesting to investigate the pictures, dates and so on. Hope this helped someone :) Inge 13:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Nevertheless, it still has a lot of important date and numeric information, which is what I personally care about in a great deal. --Chochopk 07:41, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Infobox style

moved to Template talk:Infobox Currency --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 04:02, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

List of currencies

There used to be two separate formats for this list. One was used here [9]. The other was used within the Currency article, here: [10] (scroll down). When the list was removed from the currency article, the list of currencies article format was changed. I prefer the first version (not surprising, since I created that list). I won't revert it unless anyone else cares. Do you? Ingrid 21:34, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

We have too many lists. List of currencies should be a union of List of historical currencies and List of circulating currencies. However, the first 2 are sorted by unit name, while the 3rd is sorted by location name. That makes merging/maintaining a very difficult task. Plus, I am against putting the list on Currency. The list is too long to fit into the article that explains what the thing is, in a generic sense. And it would be a 4th list. --Chochopk 01:52, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Frequently used - rarely used

I am a freshman here, so I don't know what the practice is when sorting circulating coins/banknotes into frequently used and rarely used categories. I would like to know your opinions on a few questions.

1. Which coins/banknotes should be considered as rarely used?

2. Include recently withdrawn denominations as rarely used or not? (See: Czech koruna)

Articles on current currencies might be visited by many non-numismatists (e.g. searching country info before travelling), so circulating coins and banknotes should be clearly separated from withdrawn. Moreover, only regular issues and those commemorative issues should be considered as circulating, which are minted/printed in large quantity and realesed into common circulation (i.e. which appear in everyday use, even if very rarely).Timur lenk 08:24, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

---

There have been discussions at Talk:United States dollar#Rarity of $50 bill and Talk:Swedish krona/Archives/2012#Rarity. So to conclude, and to honor the promise from my previous correspondence. I give you the criteria for being "rare" that I had in mind.

moved to Template talk:Infobox Currency --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 11:18, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Navigational boxes

May I be so bold and suggest that we color code the different type of navigational boxes. What about keeping the current blue for "currencies on the same continent", and green for "historical currencies of the same country" (only Argentina and Brazil now, but we should make more, like Israeli). Then what's left is "currencies of the same name" and "denominations of the same currency". --Chochopk 12:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

And the order of boxes should be also fixed.Timur lenk 18:40, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

"historical currencies of the same country" boxes would be of great use in the case of many countries where I suggested to split articles corresponding to currencies (like Polish złoty, Yugoslav dinar, Russian/Soviet ruble and so on). There's a number of consecutive currencies in Brasil with similar names, and the navbox makes it easy to overview and navigate. And I am sure that many of the stubs will expand by time (I am gonna work on the A-H gulden now). Timur lenk 20:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Banknote and coin info box headers

As the number of banknote and coin images increase, many different ways appeared to demonstrate them. It would be useful to create a standard box style in which the order of data is fixed.

Suggested style moved to Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Style/Currency article. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 03:32, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

IMHO, edge should go to technical param. And other attribute should go to the right side, such as "language used" or "calendar used", as they are optional and not frquently used (no pun intended). And if we drop "main" from "main colour", we could potentially save some width. After all, we all know the note is not one single block of color. And the word color/colour should match the preferred style of English of the place in question. --Chochopk 13:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I think edge should be rather in the description section: it is often called the "third side of the coin", which means it can have various ornaments and inscriptions. The best would be to have image of the edge as well, but creating such is pretty problematic.Timur lenk 17:44, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Wow, I've meant to write down the style guide, but you've done it for me (really, it's on my to do list). I added something. However, there's currently a competing "8 coin box" format, which can be found at British coinage and Austrian euro coins. --Chochopk 21:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

You and everyone here are welcome to modify, the aim is to come to a consent and to create a box style which fits to all type of currency systems (I don't think a 8-coin box would be the best idea). Maybe it should be edited on a page like the one for the succession boxes.Timur lenk 23:04, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Infobox update

• {{Infobox Note}} has been improved. See examples at Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Sandbox
• I suggest deleting Wikipedia:WikiProject Numismatics/Infotable
• {{Infobox coin2}} should be merged with {{Infobox Coin}}

--ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 13:34, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

List of circulating coins

Would anyone appose the deletion of this page? – Zntrip 03:48, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

• Support deletion. Very redundant. Hard to manage. I would be very glad to help removing links to it. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:37, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Joe I 20:13, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - A category is much more appropriate for this type of thing. --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 20:16, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Now we have 3 supports and a nomination, shall we formalize it? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 22:14, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Might as well. – Zntrip 03:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I have added this page to articles for deletion. Vote on its deletion here. – Zntrip 18:35, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Montenegrin Perper

User:CrnaGora capitalized it. I know there was discussion of capitalizing denominations which are capitalized locally. I don't know what the result of that was. I don't want to get involved (managing to spend less time here recently, and my kids are glad). I thought someone else might want to resolve it, if needed. Ingrid 18:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

What happened to German mark and other German language currencies is that the article name remains "German mark", while the content is "Mark" all the way. Looking at sr:Српски динар, it seems that neither the national adjective nor the currency unit is capitalized. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 22:12, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Another thing, why does it have an ISO 4217 code? – Zntrip 03:55, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Highest valued currency unit

Can someone add all the pounds that are pegged to GBP, and put the Azerbaijani new manat on the list. The list has been incorrect for 9 months! I would do it within 24 hours, but just don't have the time now. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Done. Enjoy. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 07:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Article Creation and Improvement Drive

Chinese currency has been nominated for Wikipedia:Article Creation and Improvement Drive. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 10:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Infobox currency

If you are intrested the following currencies need infoboxes:

• Cook Islands dollar
• Kiribati dollar
• Moldovan leu
• Netherlands Antillean gulden
• New Zealand dollar
• Nicaraguan córdoba
• Panamanian balboa
• Paraguayan guaraní
• Peruvian nuevo sol
• Salvadoran colón
• Sudanese pound
• Suriname dollar
• Syrian pound
• Trinidad and Tobago dollar
• Tuvaluan dollar
• Uruguayan peso

– Zntrip 18:28, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I took the liberty to strike out the ones that now have infoboxes. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 11:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Antarctican dollar

Has been nominated for AfD. I'm personally against it. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 13:36, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

• It appears the result of the debate was No Consensus, so the article has been kept. --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 14:30, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Template talk:Exchange Rate style guide

{{Exchange Rate}} is a template that is overshadowed by the infobox. However the exchange rate template is still important. I've written a comprehensive style guide there. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 14:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Dime (United States coin) - GA renom

I've renominated Dime (United States coin) for Good Article status. I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't pass, however. After that, I think it's ready for an FA nomination. I would've done that this week, but I won't be around too much to address any points that might get raised. --cholmes75 ^{(chit chat)} 14:28, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I have reviewed this article for a Good Article status but didn't promote it. The only thing IMO that is preventing this article from being a good article is what to do about the General history section. I can see that it was somewhat intended to do what a lead section is supposed to do, but it also is repetitive of the article itself and the lead the section. I have also rewritten the lead section of the basis of WP:Lead section which states "The lead should be capable of standing alone as a concise overview of the article", and also added some silver dime date freeze info as well. I also removed the references in the lead section since the information is a summary of what is already referenced in the article. Since I made a significant contribution to the article I can no longer be the reviewer.

I'm sorry for not contributing to this article when it was a collaboration of the month in August, but I was not in a clear mental state at the time (heheh, no I'm not insane I was just enduring some significant health problems). --Kurt 05:55, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Latin Monetary Union unit

I made this table when doing the succession box project. It is written in a very rough manner. But I still hope it can be useful. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 08:41, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Coin vendor

Does anyone know any vendor that sells coins to collectors individually? I'd like to complete most of my euro coin collection (at least the 11 larger-than-Lux countries) before they change the common side. Thanks. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 08:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Try eurocollections.org. Joe I 22:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

October collaboration

The current Numismatic Collaboration of the Month is Ancient Greek coinage. Every month a different Numismatic-related topic, stub or non-existent article is picked. Please read the nomination text and improve the article any way you can.

Denomination (currency)

I motion to remove the unnecessary list of individual denominations at Denomination (currency) and replace with things about subdivision (e.g. decimal or not), occasional use of super unit (multiple of the main unit), the process of redenomination, etc. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 07:37, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

The page is useless, I second that, but also it the remade page isn't any good than that should also be deleted too. Enlil Ninlil 07:46, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

True, the list is just like all the other ones we have. Your ideas sound good. Joe I 17:57, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe that we're in agreement that the article is unless at its current state. What is open for discussion is what to do about it. Delete or rewrite? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 18:59, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Like I said I like your ideas, rewrite. Info about non specific denominations. Subdivisions, super unit, decimalization, redenomination (is that an article allready? Nope, that would be a good part), and maybe laws and governmental inpact on denominations. Joe I 22:22, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

So you can rewrite the article and get back to us and we will give feedback, but only make it a short article first to see the result. Thankyou Enlil Ninlil 09:01, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I completely rewrote the article. Please review. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 02:12, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

New images

I'm in the process of uploading new images provided by worldcoingallery.com. These are current circulating coin sets by country. Please put them to use. commons:Category:Coin sets Thnx Joe I 20:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Please also put them under the correct subcategory of commons:Category:Coins. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 21:23, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm.. I know you spend a lot of effort "sideloading" these images. Please understand my comments are not meant to be discouraging. I just have to say that the file name could be misrepresenting when the coins are out of circulation in the future. Renaming image files is not as easy as moving an article. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 21:42, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

commons:Category:Coin sets is a subcat of commons:Category:Coins. I thought about the naming thing, but did want the discrptor of "circulating" to distinguish them from others. What would you suggest as a better alternative? Joe I 00:04, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I think these need to be sorted, the Australian 1 and 2 cent dont circulate. Sorry Enlil Ninlil 07:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest putting some kind of year information would be good, to indicate the set was circulating as of xyz. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 12:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'll redo em later. Turns out I uploaded the wrong ones anyways. :) Here's the link to em: [11]. By the way, we do have permission to use any images on World Coin Gallery under a GFDL license, provided we state the source and provide "Don's World Coin Gallery" credit as the original author.  :) Joe I 17:20, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, all is fixed, there are 56 country sets. commons:Category:Coin sets Joe I 23:33, 5 October 2006 (UTC)