Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Roads

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WikiProject U.S. Roads (Rated Project-class)
U.S. Roads WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of the U.S. Roads WikiProject, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to state highways and other major roads in the United States. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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The most recent version of jctint templates for US states did mainly the following:

  • Assign the state name to |region=.
  • Pass through a parameter to Template:Jctint/core.
  • Rename a parameter to a core parameter.
  • Build a string for a _special parameter that shares the same structure across these templates, only to differ in the state name.

The approach above has several drawbacks:

  • A parameter available in the core module not exposed by these templates becomes unavailable. Parameter additions in the core module do not propagate to these templates automatically.
  • A lot of duplicate template code is difficult to maintain.
  • These templates can only diverge from one another over time. Template users will have to memorize multiple usage when the interface for these templates could have been uniform.

For the past few days, I have converted most of these templates to use Module:Jctint/USA to eliminate the drawbacks above. You might not have seen any observable changes to articles, because you shouldn't! I am happy to report that the module now handles jctint templates for 40 out of the lower 48 states.

Before I can go into what prevents the templates for the remaining 8 states from being converted, I need to go into some technical details about how |sub2_special= was implemented for most states.

|location_special= is used by default. Certain templates permitted multiple locations to be specified as |location1= through |location4=. These parameters are concatenated as a list of wikilinks that is passed to the core module as |sub2_special=. Other templates did the same, but with townships instead of locations (see Interstate 70 in Ohio). The module handles both: |sub2param=township is used in the latter case; location is the default.

Now, why the templates for 8 states haven't been converted:

  • State name is not the correct article link (GA and WA): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Different |sub1name= (LA): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Special handling for |indep_city= (CA, CO, and MD): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Cascading |sub2_special= (MN): A list of both townships and locations are permitted, but the module doesn't support cascading yet, though it can easily be done.
  • |town= (WI): It appears that town articles are not named consistently, e.g., Bristol, Dane County, Wisconsin vs Bristol (town), Kenosha County, Wisconsin. So, I could not decide which one to use.

For more details about handling by road data modules, see Template talk:Jcttop/core#sub1name order for an idea, and Module:Road data/strings/USA/NH for an example. This is a longer-term transition, but I would like to avoid adding a boilerplate in the module when this transition is anticipated. See also Template talk:Jct#Inheritance and overriding in road data modules.

During the conversion, I noticed a beginning of divergence in some of the templates. While most states use |mile_ref=, some use |length_ref=. Specifically, templates for AL, FL, OH, OR, and TX. This parameter should be deprecated and renamed to |mile_ref=.

The module opens up other opportunities for uniformly customizing parameters for US junctions, e.g., cascading (above) and support for a list of cities. Additional customizations will not be implemented until there is evidence that they are useful for multiple states.

The templates are still fully backward compatible with the previous version, but the module might have added new features, e.g., list of locations, to some states' templates. These features have already been used in several other states' templates. I hope it is okay for every state's template to have the same leverage.

Of course, if you see any undesirable, observable changes, I will appreciate your report so I can troubleshoot. Constructive comments will also be appreciated. Chinissai (talk) 15:45, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Illinois has a mix of townships and precincts. There is no pattern that I can tell for which county uses which subdivision. –Fredddie 16:45, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Interesting. I didn't see any use of precincts in jctint as a separate parameter, so I was able to convert {{ILint}} without trouble. The module should be able to support future customization for precincts, though, perhaps by using switch tables in road data modules. Chinissai (talk) 17:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
California has the funny postmiles stuff - is this properly supported? --Rschen7754 18:20, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Yes, any "funny" parameters can be overridden by passing them to the module. See Template:ORint for example. It's only San Francisco that prevents me from converting CAint. Chinissai (talk) 18:46, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
On a side note, North Carolina has townships, but most, if not all, of the links don't exist, even as redirects. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 21:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

MUTCD I-7 variants[edit]

Since this isn't for a route, but it is for a road sign, I thought I'd take the issue here. I've been wondering if we should have a separate category or even new diagrams of Amtrak and local variants of the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices official I-7 sign for train stations. I've been known to capture a few on my photography crusades involving Long Island Rail Road, Metro-North and other commuter railroad station crusades, and even saw one on Queens Boulevard near the Briarwood (IND Queens Boulevard Line) reconstruction project that has been going on for years. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 15:03, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

If you don't know, this is the sign I'm talking about, and it either has a logo on the top or bottom
I would say no since many of the transit agencies logos are fair use. The generic train station sign works fine in the junction lists. Also, you would be barely able to see the logo. Dough4872 02:52, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
Okay, so what about a genetic space for specific logos? And would a specific commons category still be acceptable? I'm thinking something like "Train station guide signs," or something like that. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 20:37, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
Pardon me for being dense, but I even with a picture, I still don't know what you're talking about? –Fredddie 22:13, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
I'm talking about a generic blank space attached to the sign for any logo you want, without having to use the logos for Amtrak, LIRR, Metro-North, Metra, SEPTA, MBTA, MARC, ACE, NJT, etcetera. I'm also addressing the categorization of these signs. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 16:43, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
I think making train station shields with a blank space for transit logos is a waste of time, the logos are copyrighted and the generic train station sign is fine. Dough4872 04:39, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Possible vandalism on Interstate 95 in Maine[edit]

Could this edit be considered vandalism? Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 02:08, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Instead of wondering if it's vandalism, why not talk with editor and work it out? @DeepcoverEditor:Fredddie 02:19, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
I made it because no exit can be exactly on a county line. DeepcoverEditor (talk) 02:33, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
I can give examples of interchanges that are bisected by county lines, and intersections that meet at county tripoints, so that is incorrect. –Fredddie 02:35, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
Ok, I will not revert. DeepcoverEditor (talk) 02:36, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

U.S. Route 17 Alternate Truck[edit]

Earlier, I found out that there is a truck route for U.S. Route 17 Alternate. Is there any way to add functionality to the {{Jct}} that will allow the highway to be called? It is shown on Google Maps. I have started a rudimentary junction table on this page of mine. I need to go to bed, or else I would work on it more. Thank you for your help. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 06:22, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Do we really need to list truck routes since states like South Carolina sometimes randomly establish and abandons them? --WashuOtaku (talk) 19:31, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Signed roads, etc[edit]

There is no such word as signed to indicate that a route has been posted but WP does recognize signage which indicates sign(s). Is it proper to use signaged as the action of having marked a route, road, street, freeway, etc.? Signed is an indication of a signature, have communicated in sign language or use in mathematics but not the act of having indicating a particular roadway.2605:E000:9143:7000:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 23:39, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

@2605:E000:9143:7000:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6: I don't know where you got that idea. The word signed has the intended meaning. See under the verb heading:

18. to mark with a sign, especially the sign of the cross.
19. to communicate by means of a sign; signal

I think that covers it. Imzadi 1979  23:44, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
P.S. "signage" is only a noun, and not also a verb, so "signaged" is not a word. Imzadi 1979  23:48, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

@IP, you referenced in another edit summary the Oxford dictionary, the Oxford dictionary's use of the word in a sentence contradicts your statement. —Mr. Matté (Talk/Contrib) 23:54, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

I am somewhat surprised that no one brought up the word "posted"2605:E000:9143:7000:ADF3:5457:D866:C0E6 (talk) 05:13, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Template:Routelist row[edit]

Can functionality for special routes for South Dakota be added to the template? I tried to do that in my User:Morriswa/sandbox3 page, as I'm attempting to templatize the List of state highways in South Dakota page. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 23:12, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

There is nothing to be changed in {{routelist row}}, Morriswa. It already supports whatever types of highways are supported for a state. Imzadi 1979  23:27, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
Before jumping too quickly... can you show us examples of "special route" shields that would need to be changed? Preferably in Gmaps where you can show that it is signed as such, given the multitude of misleading oil company maps in the US. After all, We're using specialized shields with no issue in Ontario where there are many official/signed examples. - Floydian τ ¢ 00:18, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
And not to simplify things, but if it works with {{Jct}} it will work with {{Routelist row}}. –Fredddie 00:28, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
When I use "subtype=Spur", the entry is added, but it is shown with just the mainline shield, no "spur" plate? If I used "type=SD-Spur", that entry is deleted in the render, and the previous entry has a Lua error that it doesn't exist. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 00:55, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Also, the truck route I added shows as a truck route, but the link is trying to go to a business route. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 00:57, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
On User:Morriswa/sandbox2, I tried {{Jct}} for SD, for each main special route type. Only the Business and Truck ones work. The Alternate, Bypass, Connector, and Spur don't. Can these be added to the template? Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 01:57, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
Do we really need all those types? –Fredddie 02:25, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
I was just preparing for if and when I find them in the field. That's all. So far, Spur might be the only one that is needed. I will be checking more on Google Maps, just to be sure. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 02:37, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Streets in Portland, Oregon[edit]

And now, a list of redlinks for any project members who are interested in creating new articles. I've created 1st Avenue, 2nd Avenue, and 3rd Avenue, and identified some streets in Portland, Oregon that may qualify for articles:

Keep in mind, many streets have north and south, or east and west counterparts, covering multiple parts of the city. All help is welcome (especially from road enthusiasts), otherwise I'll chip away at these lists over time. ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:42, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

This is under the scope of WP:USST, which is pretty inactive. I'll chime in, since I've been planning similar street articles for Seattle for a while. I don't think regular downtown streets warrant their own articles, but would look best in a listicle (see Los Angeles streets, 1-10 or List of north–south roads in Toronto). Unless the street has some very well defined characteristics and is recognizable as an independent piece of the city's culture, it won't survive deletion attempts. Major arterials like Burnside, Division, Sandy, Broadway, and those covered under the state highway system are definitely deserving of articles. SounderBruce 05:23, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
I don't believe any of those meet Wikipedia's notability standards, not even the more specific guidelines mentioned at the (effectively inactive) Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Streets, and as far as I can tell, you have made no effort to establish notability in the (brief) text of the three you already created. Personally, I don't feel any of the streets in the above list warrant standalone articles on Wikipedia. The ones mentioned by SounderBruce, on the other hand, probably are, but notability should be established by sources before any WP entries are created, not left to other editors to (possibly, but probably not) do. SJ Morg (talk) 11:22, 11 January 2018 (UTC)


Resolved: This is a known issue for some users. Just say something here and we'll get you in. –Fredddie 01:00, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Why am I banned from the channel? I don't recall doing anything wrong. Dough4872 00:11, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

You're not on the ban list, so I don't know what's wrong. Can you get on the server but not into the channel? –Fredddie 00:41, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
I try to log into wikipedia-en-roads using Dough4872 and get the message "#wikipedia-en-roads Cannot join channel (+b) - you are banned". I don't know why this is happening. Dough4872 00:46, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
Have you tried another channel? –Fredddie 00:49, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
I've tried wikipedia-en and wikimedia-ops and have been able to get into those channels. Dough4872 00:50, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
Try it now. –Fredddie 00:54, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
I'm in! Thanks very much Fredddie! Dough4872 00:56, 16 January 2018 (UTC)