Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Plants

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Sunflower Flats wildflowers, BLM Elko District Cropped.jpg

WikiProject Plants

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WikiProject Plants (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Plants, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of plants and botany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Replacement names[edit]

I still find the ICNafp's terms replacement name and replaced synonym somewhat puzzling at times, particularly so when I was struggling to understand the authorship of the synonyms of Pseudolycopodium densum. So I turned to the section Nomen novum#Algae, fungi and plants but didn't find it very helpful. I've attempted to re-write it, but it would be good if others could look it over. It seems an excellent example of the obscurity of parts of the ICNafp! Peter coxhead (talk) 17:40, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

You might like to add an example of the common case of a clash of epithets when a species is moved from one genus to another, e.g. Lavatera creticaMalva pseudolavatera (or for a more recent one Rosmarinus officinalisSalvia rosmarinus). Lavateraguy (talk) 12:00, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
The Rosmarinus officinalisSalvia rosmarinus case is a good idea, I think. I'll add it if no-one else does first. Peter coxhead (talk) 22:41, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
 Done Peter coxhead (talk) 22:13, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Machaerina or Baumea[edit]

Didn't really look hard at this, which paper is being used, but both versions of TPL, PoWO and New Zealand gov. websites consider Blumea a synonym of Machaerina. Some Australian websites and gardeners continue using Blumea. On Wikipedia... well, see for yourselves. A number of pages might need moving here. Cheers, Leo Breman (talk) 23:28, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

I assume you meant Baumea rather than Blumea? Plantdrew (talk) 23:45, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
Eh, you assume correctly! Leo Breman (talk) 23:48, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

New bot to remove completed infobox requests[edit]

Hello! I have recently created a bot to remove completed infobox requests and am sending this message to WikiProject Plants since the project currently has a backlogged infobox request category. Details about the task can be found at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/PearBOT 2, but in short it removes all infobox requests from articles with an infobox, once a week. To sign up, reply with {{ping|Trialpears}} and tell me if any special considerations are required for the Wikiproject. For example: if only a specific infobox should be detected, such as {{infobox journal}} for WikiProject Academic Journals; or if an irregularly named infobox such as {{starbox begin}} should be detected. Feel free to ask if you have any questions!

Sent on behalf of Trialpears (talk) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:34, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Project page needs pruning[edit]

The project page is appearing in Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded. At the moment, the only things not showing are a couple of navboxes at the bottom of the page, but they should be visible if considered necessary. Are there some things that are no longer needed or is there a section that could be moved to a subpage?   Jts1882 | talk  16:20, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Looking through very quickly, sections that could most easily be moved ("advice" sections) don't actually seem to have many templates in them. Um... Peter coxhead (talk) 17:07, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
Yes, the "bigger" sections don't have many templates and no section stands out as have a large include size, which is why I didn't suggest anything. The Resources section at the bottom is 138k and there is a Resources subpage, so perhaps combining them is the simplest solution and moves the bits that aren't visible anyway.   Jts1882 | talk  17:41, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
Seems a good solution. Peter coxhead (talk) 22:13, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
That didn't work. Should I revert or is it more logical anyway.
The guilty party is the New articles section, where the {{scrolling window}} template for the new articles isn't showing. Without it the main project page is only 300k/2000k in post-expand includes size. A new subpage for this content is the only solution, as it only just misses the limit on its own.   Jts1882 | talk  09:41, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Image issue[edit]

An IP editor pointed out that an image then used in the taxobox at Baragwanathia was in fact of Phlegmariurus squarrosus. It had been called File:Baragwanathia artificial model.jpg by the person who uploaded it to Commons. Because it was included in the Wikidata object, those language wikis that pick up taxobox images from Wikidata were all showing it. I've now had it moved, and removed it from our article and Baragwanathia (Q1452954).

This example makes a familiar point about the problems with both Commons and Wikidata: there's no equivalent of referencing at Commons, so there are many misidentified images; picking up information automatically from Wikidata removes a level of editor scrutiny and responsibility. Peter coxhead (talk) 19:21, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

I ran into this the other day with commons:File:Aloe erinacea, Jardín Botánico de Múnich, Alemania, 2013-05-04, DD 01.jpg (I've had it moved; it was titled as Orbeanthus hardyi originally). It was in Wikidata as Orbeanthus hardyi, and spread across other Wikipedias from there. It remains a Valued Image on Commons, and although I've asked how to get that status reviewed, it remains unclear to me. That's at least the third photo on Commons taken at a botanical garden with an egregious misdentification I've come across (egregious in that a non-botanist would easily recognize it as a different plant if they compared it to a correctly labeled photo). If I'm adding an image to an article I prefer to go for botanical illustrations and photos from botanic gardens as they are most likely to be correctly identified. However, botanical garden labels may end up being mis-associated with an adjacent plant (the other two egregious misIDs I recall on commons involved the label (visible in the photo) for a dormant herbaceous perennial being associated with a nearby shrub. Plantdrew (talk) 21:52, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Intersectional distribution categories (again)[edit]

I hate the kind of muddled categories I see on fern articles as I've been working on converting them to PPG I. As just one example, see Pellaea truncata, but almost any article in the "Ferns of ..." category hierarchy shows the same muddle.

  • Because the "Ferns of ..." categories are far from complete (see e.g. Category:Ferns of the United States by state), editors have used "Flora of ..." to fill in the gaps, resulting in a mixture of the two categorization systems.
  • Parent categories in the ferns categorization system are present with their child categories, probably to try to produce complete coverage given the many missing ones.
  • While the "Flora of ..." system at least tries to use the consistent WGSRPD system, the "Ferns of ..." system has whatever random geographical units appealed to their creators (mostly the blocked Look2See1 and/or NotWith).

Personally, I would like to remove all the "Ferns of ..." categories from articles, just use the normal WGSRPD "Flora of ..." categories, and then nominate the "Ferns of ..." categories for deletion. Intersectional categories, in this case mixing taxonomic category with distribution category, are unnecessary, and misleading unless complete (which I'm certainly not going to work on).

Views, please. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:41, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Get rid of them. The category description says the categories contain native ferns, which may not be true. And native/naturalized/invasive status isn't a can of worms I want to see opened any further (I know there are extensive categories for endemics, and some categories for invasives, but as far as I'm aware, the only other categories that specify native or naturalized are found as subcategories of Category:Grasses of the United States
Fine with me. I think trying to make the category system work with geographic data like this that doesn't neatly divide on national boundaries is a somewhat Sisyphean task, so I don't object to stripping them out. Choess (talk) 18:56, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
I'm entirely in favour of this. The intersectional categories have created a category mess on so many plant articles. They should certainly be removed from articles. Nominated for deletion too, though there are some on CfD discussions who seem opposed to any geographical categories. So the categories should be nominated as being superfluous to the well-developed and WGSRPD-based "Flora of..." category scheme. Declangi (talk) 01:14, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Categories; Interspecific plant hybrids vs Plant nothospecies vs Hybrid plants[edit]

What is the difference between Category:Interspecific plant hybrids and Category:Plant nothospecies? I have probably been assigning these all wrong, but it would help if the category page for Category:Interspecific plant hybrids didn't list Nothospecies as a member, and it would help if there was guidance on each page. Or could they be merged? Abductive (reasoning) 07:27, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Also, Category:Hybrid plants is probably wrongly populated. Abductive (reasoning) 07:29, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, the subcategories of Hybrid plants are a mess, inconsistently named and populated. The plant nothspecies category was my creation but may not be needed. Nothospecies is a nomenclatural concept; all nothspecies are interspecific plant hybrids, but not all interspecific hybrids are named as nothospecies (Papaver somniferum × bracteatum is not a nothospecies; probably there are also some articles on cultivars that are interspecific hybrids, but not named as nothospecies (although I'd think cultivar hybrids should have a category of their own)). Clean up of the hybrid categories is needed. Plantdrew (talk) 19:01, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Template:GRIN fixes requested[edit]

Please see these three requests at Template talk:GRIN. --CiaPan (talk) 14:41, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

The 2020 WikiCup is on![edit]

2020 WikiCup

Do you want a fun and exciting Wiki challenge? An opportunity to get involved in some of the most important editing on Wikipedia? A giant shiny cup to display on your userpage? Well then you should join the WikiCup challenge! Folks of all experience levels are welcome to join. It's a good way for veteran editors to test their mettle, and for new users to learn the ropes. The competition revolves around content creation, such as good and featured articles, DYK's, reviewing such content, and more. See Wikipedia:WikiCup/Scoring for full details. Over the course of the year, users compete to create the most and best content in a round based format. The top performers in each round will advance to the next, until just 8 remain in the final round. Out of those, one Wikipedian will walk away with the coveted silver Wikicup. Could that user be you? Find out by signing up! Signups are open until January 31, 2020. May the editing be ever in your favor! Captain Eek Edits Ho Cap'n! 21:58, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Let me just take this opportunity to urge my fellow editors here at the PLANTS Wikiproject to participate in the Cup this year. I'm sure most of you are at least aware of the WikiCup, but this year they have loosened up the rules to our benefit. They have gotten rid of the "pools", finally. Also, importantly, you can get points for articles started in 2019 and nominated for DYK in 2020. (It looks like articles nominated for DYK in 2019 but posted in 2020 may qualify for points, but don't quote me on that.) So some of us already have points for the asking.
Finding articles to create or improve that get a multiplier bonus for appearing on many other language Wikipedias is easy for plants. Why? First off, you can use a query on Wikidata to find, say, all species in your favorite genus that don't have an article on the English Wikipedia but have over 10 articles on other Wikipedias. There are shockingly (some might say embarrassingly) many such species. This is not generally the case for animals or insects. Second, such popular plant species often are interesting, or they wouldn't have articles in 12+ other languages. Some even have gained the Royal Horticultural Society's Award of Garden Merit and don't have an article in English. Species, not cultivars. Species. This makes it easier to write an article long enough to qualify for DYK or to expand to Good Article status or whatever. Again, this is not generally true of animal and insect articles.
Let me know if you need help running the query on Wikidata. Abductive (reasoning) 23:15, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Grass authorities[edit]

What authority are we using for grasses? I'm working on creating pages for all of the Boutelouas, and as with all of these obscure grasses, the taxonomy is always a bit foggy. I'm using ITIS at the moment, as its what I use in my day to day field research, but I realized that Wikipedia might use a different one. Captain Eek Edits Ho Cap'n! 21:19, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Plants of the World Online (POWO) is the best general database at this point, but other sources can be followed if they can be shown to be better. GrassBase is the major specialized database for grasses that I'm aware of, but as it and POWO are both products of Kew, I expect that POWO probably follows GrassBase (but I haven't checked for discrepancies). I implemented automatic taxoboxes for most grass articles a couple months ago; I was following Soreng et al. for infrafamilial classification. Most of the grass articles still using manual taxoboxes are in genera not recognized by Soreng. I intend to revist the remaining manual taxoboxes, but haven't decided how to handle cases where Soreng and POWO/GrassBase disagree. Plantdrew (talk) 01:52, 13 January 2020 (UTC)