Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scotland

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This Talk page is for discussing the core work of the WikiProject, ie. our drive to improve the quality of our key Scotland-related articles, focussing on Wikipedia 1.0 and beyond.


Feedback on Abertay University article, please[edit]

Hi - i've been trying to improve the Abertay article and would welcome comments. Thanks. Jonty 16:29, 14 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hpurcell1659 (talkcontribs)

Hi again. I would like to get the boosterism charge removed..and would welcome guidance on where refs verification is required. Within the history section, I cited the main source in the introduction. Do I have to repeat this throughout the history section? Or does this general ref suffice!Jonty 22:00, 6 March 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hpurcell1659 (talkcontribs)

Image requested for the memorial plaque on Sir Andrew Halliday's tomb at Saint Michael's in Dumfries, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland[edit]

Aloha! I have been working on the Andrew Halliday (physician) article. I understand from a source at Leeds University (right now it is not connecting) that the memorial plaque on his tomb has some interesting information. Since I live on the opposite side of the globe in Hawaiʻi (incidentally, I am a sixteenth Scottish), I am hoping to find a Doonhamer or the like who might be willing to seek out Sir Andrew Halliday's tomb & take a picture of the memorial plaque. His tomb is located at Saint Michael's in Dumfries, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland. Mahalo! Peaceray (talk) 21:35, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

I checked back with the Summary for the gravestone of Sir Andrew Halliday , & it is back up & viewable now. Peaceray (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Popular pages tool update[edit]

As of January, the popular pages tool has moved from the Toolserver to Wikimedia Tool Labs. The code has changed significantly from the Toolserver version, but users should notice few differences. Please take a moment to look over your project's list for any anomalies, such as pages that you expect to see that are missing or pages that seem to have more views than expected. Note that unlike other tools, this tool aggregates all views from redirects, which means it will typically have higher numbers. (For January 2014 specifically, 35 hours of data is missing from the WMF data, which was approximated from other dates. For most articles, this should yield a more accurate number. However, a few articles, like ones featured on the Main Page, may be off).

Web tools, to replace the ones at tools:~alexz/pop, will become available over the next few weeks at toollabs:popularpages. All of the historical data (back to July 2009 for some projects) has been copied over. The tool to view historical data is currently partially available (assessment data and a few projects may not be available at the moment). The tool to add new projects to the bot's list is also available now (editing the configuration of current projects coming soon). Unlike the previous tool, all changes will be effective immediately. OAuth is used to authenticate users, allowing only regular users to make changes to prevent abuse. A visible history of configuration additions and changes is coming soon. Once tools become fully available, their toolserver versions will redirect to Labs.

If you have any questions, want to report any bugs, or there are any features you would like to see that aren't currently available on the Toolserver tools, see the updated FAQ or contact me on my talk page. Mr.Z-bot (talk) (for Mr.Z-man) 05:24, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Template talk:Europe topic[edit]

Some Scottish input is desperately needed on here just now.--MacRùsgail (talk) 12:05, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Invitation to User Study[edit]

Would you be interested in participating in a user study? We are a team at University of Washington studying methods for finding collaborators within a Wikipedia community. We are looking for volunteers to evaluate a new visualization tool. All you need to do is to prepare for your laptop/desktop, web camera, and speaker for video communication with Google Hangout. We will provide you with a Amazon gift card in appreciation of your time and participation. For more information about this study, please visit our wiki page ( If you would like to participate in our user study, please send me a message at Wkmaster (talk) 18:12, 15 March 2014 (UTC).

Shetland, Orkney and the Isles[edit]

I know we have an article specifically on the Lerwick Declaration, but in the light of recent news reports like this, this, and this, do we need a wider new article on moves for greater autonomy and/or referenda in those isles? Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:02, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

I've created the article Constitutional status of Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles. I was coming on here to see if there was anyone else who would be interested in helping. JASpencer (talk) 20:35, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Questionable edits on census stats at Roman Catholicism in Scotland[edit]

An editor has been adding their own interpretation of Scottish census stats, or putting a different spin on interpretations given in sources, at Roman Catholicism in Scotland. Some of their personal interpretations may have a level of validity (though often they do not) but seem to be aimed at pushing a POV and when neither stated or implied in the sources are OR or SYNTH. Their understanding of the subject also seems somewhat lacking, for instance confusing actual church membership with simply noting religious affiliation on a census form. Their mode of expression is often in need of copyediting or rephrasing. Some other eyes on the article would be appreciated. Mutt Lunker (talk) 14:30, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Just to note, I've only just noticed that an edit conflict resulted in re-insertion of the dubious text, which I have now amended. Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:37, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

AfC submission - 08/04[edit]

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Ui Church - St Columba's Chapel. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 01:16, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Robert Burns Birthplace Museum[edit]

Dear Scotland experts: The above old Afc submission has some information that could be added to the Burns' Cottage article. Should the resulting larger article be named "Burns' Cottage" or "Robert Burns Birthplace Museum"? The draft can be made into a redirect to retain attribution. —Anne Delong (talk) 01:42, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

AfC submission - 27/04[edit]

Articles for creation/The Island Queen. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 17:04, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

GA article being reassessed: Carnoustie[edit]

Carnoustie was reviewed and listed as a Good Article in Sept 2008. The article has been tagged with sourcing concerns since Dec 2009. I have done a GAR, which indicates that the article doesn't meet GA criteria for the WP:Lead, the size and focus, the prose, and sourcing. The main contributor has been notified, though is not able to do any work at the moment. Following the guidelines at Wikipedia:Good article reassessment, this WikiProject is now being informed as the article may be delisted. See Talk:Carnoustie/GA2 for more details. SilkTork ✔Tea time 22:42, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Anyone recognize this tower?[edit]

ManchesterNH SmythTower.jpg

This tower in Manchester, New Hampshire, USA, is described as being a copy of a "famous Scottish lookout tower". It was built in 1888 by Frederick Smyth, who toured Scotland and England in the 1880s. Does anyone here have suggestions as to what tower it might be a copy of? (I didn't spot any obvious candidates in the relevant Commons image category.) Magic♪piano 13:54, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Looks more like a generic pastiche than a specific copy. To further muddy the waters this 1906 source calls the inspiration England rather than Scotland, although our transatlantic cousins are never great at telling the difference. The pebble construction calls to mind the flint buildings of southern England, but you get small lookout towers all over the place. If anything, round ones are more Irish, the Scots tended to go more for square buildings. Le Deluge (talk) 16:58, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
It is somewhat reminiscent of various follies which occur throughout Britain - it doesn't on the face of it have a particularly 'Scottish' feel about it. cheers Geopersona (talk) 18:46, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
Given that none of the sources I've been able to track down are at all specific, I was dubious about it being an actual copy (rather than a pastiche or Yankee re-imagining of something seen somewhere in Britain), but thought I'd ask. I doubt very much Mr. Smyth took measurements... Thanks for your comments. Magic♪piano 20:02, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride 2014[edit]

You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride 2014, a campaign to create and improve LGBT-related content at Wikipedia and its sister projects. The campaign will take place throughout the month of June, culminating with a multinational edit-a-thon on June 21. Meetups are being held in some cities, or you can participate remotely. All constructive edits are welcome in order to contribute to Wikipedia's mission of providing quality, accurate information. Articles within Category:LGBT in Europe may be of particular interest. You can also upload LGBT-related images by participating in Wikimedia Commons' LGBT-related photo challenge. You are encouraged to share the results of your work here. Happy editing! --Another Believer (Talk) 18:49, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject Scotland At Wikimania 2014[edit]

Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to:
Project leaflets
Adikhajuria (talk) 10:44, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Traditional counties advocacy edits?[edit]

This may be a false alarm but I have spotted what may be signs of a new crop of "traditional counties" advocacy edits by a newish editor, User:Zacwill16. I probably will not have time to check this out, certainly not immediately, so if someone else could and act accordingly or call off the alarm as appropriate (and notify the user that they are being discussed perhaps?) I'd be most grateful. Gotta go... Mutt Lunker (talk) 19:07, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

A look at some of the most recent edits, to Dull, Perth and Kinross, Sutherland and The Burryman would appear to confirm this suspicion but the user's edit history points to the likelihood of much more. This kind of thing was last discussed here I think but is there something the editor could be pointed towards regarding policy or consensus and hopefully nip any POV-pushing campaign in the bud? Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:45, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Thomas Affleck (planter)[edit]

Hello. Some of you may be interested in expanding Thomas Affleck (planter)'s page. A Scottish immigrant to the US from Dumfries, he became a prominent plantation owner in Texas, nurseryman, author, etc. I wonder if any of you could find out more about his Scottish ancestry (did he come from an esteemed family in Scotland?); a portrait would also be great. Anyway, I just thought I would mention this here in case anyone is interested. Please only do add more info with inlined references.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:57, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

British Newspaper Archive[edit]

Hey All, just wanted to let everyone know, that we have about 15 more slots available for access to British Newspaper Archive through WP:The Wikipedia Library. If you would like access, apply at WP:BNA. Sadads (talk) 14:41, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Commons uploads of interest from National Library of Scotland[edit]

Hi all,

Just wanted to flag up the content that has recently been uploaded to commons as part of the National Library of Scotland's collaboration with Wikimedia UK. Three batches totalling about 250 images have been released. The photos include images of the construction of the Forth Bridge, the Tay Bridge disaster, and early 19th century sketches of locations around Scotland from John Claude Nattes and James Fittler's Scotia Depicta.

Hopefully some of this content will be of interest or of use to this project!

Cheers, ACrockford (talk) 12:51, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

To add to this, a further 200 images including posters and photographs from the Weir Collection of material relating to late 19th century theatre in Edinburgh and Glasgow have now been uploaded as well, and more content will follow soon. Will keep this talk page updated if that's alright. ACrockford (talk) 12:06, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Is Corryvreckan in the Minch?[edit]

I've been invited to "fuck off moron" in regard to a frankly bizarre debate on the talk page of the Blue men of the Minch article, hingeing on a simple matter of geography. The article is a featured article candidate and contains a significant contradiction which would prove embarrassing when featured on the main page. The debate regards the assertion in the lede that the men are "localised to the Minch, unknown in other parts of Scotland" yet discusses prominently their presence at Corryvreckan, the best part of 100 miles from the Minch. A major contributor to the article is proving aggressively impervious to debate on this point, apparently sufficiently convinced in their belief about the geography that they have refused the invitation to even simply check it at Wikipedia's article on Corryvreckan and the one on the Minch and the map therein. Does (contrary to any documentation I have seen) a definition of the Minch in fact extend as far south as Jura and Scarba (or is Corryvreckan not in fact between these islands)? In that case the Minch or Corryvreckan articles are in serious need of attention. Mutt Lunker (talk) 08:26, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Well, whatever the dispute, it is unacceptable for an editor to make personal insults like that. The editor concerned could be pointed towards reading WP:NPA.
I've had a quick look over the article and it looks to me like it is conflating two mythologies from different geographical locations, the "blue men of the Minch" and the "storm kelpies of Corrievreckan". Since the article in question is about the blue men, I would suggest that material about the storm kelpies should probably be removed, unless a reliable source demonstrates a link between the two, or if such a link can be demonstrated it should clearly be explained in the article. --Deskford (talk) 13:52, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, agree entirely. Mutt Lunker (talk) 16:26, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
That's Malleus... He has a particular style of interaction that can be a bit direct, but is a prolific content editor. If you can, try to not take it personally. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 19:44, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
Ah, thanks! I hadn't realised who Eric was. That maybe explains things, but doesn't excuse them. I've left a comment over at Talk:Blue men of the Minch calling for calm. I hope it will be heeded. --Deskford (talk) 00:00, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Well I can not take it personally in the sense that there’s clearly no basis for the insults but it’s impossible to be constructive with an editor who will only engage on personal rather than factual terms. If this is typical of elements of the content they produce, and the manner they deal with queries on it, that they are prolific is more of a concern than any sort of mitigating factor. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:03, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Well as you are so concerned about the "typical elements of the content they produce", I suggest you go and spend your time checking through the rest of the articles I have expanded/created - try Pitfour estate, Forglen House, James Smith (architect), Inchdrewer Castle etc etc - I'm afraid they bare no resemblance to Hanklyn-Janklin but I hadn't realised that was the high standard being aimed for by this project. SagaciousPhil - Chat 15:19, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Sticking with the ad hominem I see rather than prepared to address the matter at hand. Corryvreckan in relation to the Blue Men? Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:31, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
As I suggested, go and check everything else I've worked on if it is such a concern to you - or perhaps you need to canvass for a bit more support first? Oh and by the way, FAs are not automatically included as TFAs. SagaciousPhil - Chat 15:40, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
No, lets stick with the specific queries I have raised re this one article as you seem intent on diverting attention from them. Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:04, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Incidentally "they" above = "the editor" singular, i.e. Eric. Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:50, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
How extraordinary - if, as you claim, that is the case, how come your comment starting "Sticking with ..." doesn't make that clarification? Or do you just backtrack whenever it suits you? SagaciousPhil - Chat 19:25, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm completely mystified as to what triggered all the mud-slinging – probably a fair bit of misinterpretation and misunderstanding – but the article has now been protected for four days, so I hope this will give people a chance to cool off and think of a constructive way forwards. --Deskford (talk) 19:10, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

This lazy tagging, only two days after the FA star was added. Discuss on the talk page, fine, but don't deface a brand new FA like that. Eric Corbett 19:24, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Matt, Eric is simply a quite dreadful Wiki-dragon (sub-species uncertain) and if I were in more jocular mood I'd say that the opening description to the (now sadly sidelined) Nuckelavee FAC sounds suspiciously like he is editing an article about himself. On no account is he to be fed and the best medicine is to ignore him until, as he usually does, he calms down and re-commences his excellent work. Ben MacDui 19:39, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Aha, from now on that's how I'll picture Eric – presumably this is a cousin of the creature that in Shetland is called a njuggle or njugal? Well, I've seen enough drama for one day. I'm off for an evening swim in the Minch. --Deskford (talk) 20:01, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Let me put this as simply as I can for the hard of understanding. You work your bollocks off for a few weeks, you put yourself through the stress of an FAC for another few weeks, and then two or three days later some twat comes along and defaces your article over some minor issue or other. If you think that's acceptable then you and I have nothing more to say to each other. Eric Corbett 17:14, 15 July 2014 (UTC)


The usage of Scots (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is under discussion, see talk:Scots -- (talk) 04:41, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Scottish pioneer in Southern California[edit]

Your attention is called to a new article, Daniel Freeman (Los Angeles County), in which Scotlander Daniel Freeman, ostensibly a "Sir" of some sort, is mentioned and a link is made to Crathes_Castle. If you would like to link to this article or make comments about its relation to Scotland, please do so on the Talk Page over there. Thank you, GeorgeLouis (talk) 21:46, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Scotland portal[edit]

[Copying this here from the portal talk page in hope of reaching a wider audience.] Is this portal still being maintained? Selected article & quotes are both currently redlinked. Additionally the news has not been updated since February. Espresso Addict (talk) 09:15, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Banff and Macduff[edit]

The page Banff and Macduff has been nominated for WP:PROD deletion. In principle I am in agreement that we don't need this article, but there is a problem. At one point this single article covered both towns in detail, and I was responsible for separating it into articles for each town. Unfortunately I did it by copy-and-paste – I was fairly new to Wikipedia at the time and didn't appreciate the importance of preserving editing histories – which means that if this article is deleted we will lose the early history. I think this would cause us licensing problems. Is there a way of clearing up this mess? Many apologies for causing it! --Deskford (talk) 15:09, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Try WP:CPMV. Ben MacDui 18:56, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. PamD (talk · contribs) has come up with what seems like a good solution. --Deskford (talk) 10:08, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

MSPs' Websites[edit]

Most of the MSPs' articles that I've checked so far contain out-dated links to Current links for all MSP's can be found at I'm going through fixing them but if anyone wants to help that would be appreciated.GideonF (talk) 15:12, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Kelpie geography[edit]

Glen Keltney near Schiehallion same spot as Lochan near Aberfeldy?[edit]

Relating to the Kelpie article, the folklorist Katharine Mary Briggs records a story of the kelpie at "Glen Keltney near Schiehallion" in Perthshire in one work, but later records the identical story as a water horse tale that occurs in "a small lochan near Aberfeldy.
I edited on the assumption that she is talking about the same location (call it "Body of Water X"), about 5km from either Schiehallion or Aberfeldy. So feedback on yes or no, if I am resorting to WP:Opinion here, and how to rephrase it to avoid that charge. Talk:Kelpie--Kiyoweap (talk) 04:38, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

I would appreciate comments at Talk:Kelpie on these geography questions:

  • Folklorist Katharine Mary Briggs's tale of the kelpie at "Glen Keltney near Schiehallion" (in her 1967 work) and her each uisge tale at "a small lochan near Aberfeldy are substantively identical, but for some choices in phrasing the story. I am assuming the same body of water is being referred to, so comments.
  • One tale is localized in Loch na cloinne "lake of the children", which the source says is between Farr, Sutherland and Thurso in Caithness. The aricle adopts the Thurso location, but I suspect Farr might be the better choice. --Kiyoweap (talk) 04:47, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
What makes you think that? --Hafspajen (talk) 13:08, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
@Hafspajen: I am deliberately leaving it as an open exercise, a quiz of sorts, without providing my arguments/solutions here, in order to give the geographically minded a chance to make their own inquiries and make assessments from a relatively clean slate.
But if you want to forgo that step, I do go a bit further into argument at either Talk:Kelpie#Glen Keltney and lochan near Aberfeldy identical? or Talk:Kelpie#Loch na Cloinne in Farr or Thurso?, so please go there and respond. (Minor typos fixed on my previous post)--Kiyoweap (talk) 18:56, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Interview for The Signpost[edit]

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Scotland for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Thanks, Rcsprinter123 (warn) @ 09:09, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Is this website reliable?[edit]

I'm normally quite good in deciding whether a website is reliable before using it as a reference. I just however want other people's opinions on whether I should use this article as a source: Dumfries and Galloway: What's Going On? Simply south ...... sitting on fans for just 8 years 11:05, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal[edit]

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:48, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

European Sleep Apnea Database deletion discussion[edit]

European Sleep Apnea Database is undergoing a deletion discussion, AFD page at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/European Sleep Apnea Database. — Cirt (talk) 03:49, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Old maps and views of parts of Scotland[edit]

As you might have seen in the Signpost this week, there's currently a drive to go through the million 19th century images released by the British Library last year, and identify all the maps, with a view to their being georeferenced by BL volunteers, and then uploaded to Commons early next year. As of Sunday night, over five thousand new maps have been identified, with 26.5% of the target books looked at -- but see the status page for the latest figures, and more information.

A part that may specifically interest this project is

c:Commons:British Library/Mechanical Curator collection/Synoptic index/Scotland

which currently shows pink templated links for 342 Flickr book pages still to be looked at. (Though there are lots of other parts of the world, still to be looked through as well).

Any help looking through these would be very much appreciated -- as well as the maps (and ground plans) for tagging, you may well also find other interesting or useful non-map views that may be worth considering or uploading for articles on different places in Scotland.

Thanks, Jheald (talk) 01:03, 3 November 2014 (UTC)


Via Wikipedia Library, the online resources of ScotlandsPeople are going to be freely available to approved editors: Wikipedia:ScotlandsPeople Thincat (talk) 20:42, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Stoorworm etymology dispute feedback[edit]

Before a DYK appears that states "Did you know that the Stoor worm of Orkney derives its name from Old Norse Storðar-gandr, a kenning for the Midgard Serpent..." I am advocating getting this info pulled from the article. Please leave your considered input at Talk:Stoor worm#Stoorworm etymology dispute feedback. The reliablility, due weight, etc. of this info has been a matter of ongoing dispute, and I apologize for the messy talk page there.--Kiyoweap (talk) 14:02, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

The National[edit]

Hi, I've been working on The National over the last few days and plan to put it forward for DYK, so I wondered if anyone has an image we can upload, perhaps of the first edition. Thanks, This is Paul (talk) 15:51, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

One issue is licensing, but File:Herald (Glasgow) front page.png suggests that some sort of 'fair use' would apply. If you don't have a copy of the newspaper to photograph itself you could upload a screen-grab from the website, which might suffice. Ben MacDui 19:41, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. Sadly don't have a copy, and can't see anything other than the masthead on the site. A Google image search presents something promising on the BBC News site, but directs to a different page when clicked. Hopefully someone with a copy will see this thread, or maybe when it goes to DYK. This is Paul (talk) 19:57, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
I bought one today but I see you have an image now. Nice article btw - and I have a picture of the owner of Inchmarnock into the bargain. Ben MacDui 10:06, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, I found one for sale on ebay so got someone to enhance and upload it for me. Really wish I'd kept my first edition of the I now. This is Paul (talk) 00:07, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
I agree, very nice article. Excellent work (still got to buy my first copy ... manyana or ramorra, perhaps?). 21:20, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

UK Infobox[edit]

After a short discussion here about the use of parishes in Template:Infobox UK place, this led to a discussion aimed at amending the template here. The presenting issue is that adding the parameter ' |civil_parish ' to Scottish places (e.g. Broadford, Skye) results in the infobox showing a link to Civil parishes in England, which is of course both inaccurate and misleading as Civil parishes in Scotland are a quite different beast. EP111 has been very active in adding details such as this to Scottish island places infoboxes of late, which is where I came across the issue. He or she is clearly attempting to sort this out. However, I am not at all convinced that adding civil parishes to the Scottish variant of this template is useful. They have no statutory force and are (I beleive) mainly used by local authorities as a convenient way of gathering statistics. As suggested, community councils are an optional and perhaps better way of dealing with this, but I don't use this infobox and those more familiar with it may wish to comment. (I have various other grumbles about the infobox and am reluctant to get too involved. Ping me if you are curious.) Ben MacDui 16:18, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

The whole problem started when the separate English, Scottish and Welsh infoboxes were merged into the appalling UK infobox, against the unanimous wishes of Scottish Wikipedians at the time. The idiocy of recruited "voting" on Talk pages in a nutshell. The whole thing is a mess and can only be sorted out by restoring the national infoboxes, which can be properly tailored to the different situations in each country. Won't happen, due to the usual vote-stacking, therefore I won't get involved. Tis simple arithmetic that small countries will always get out-voted by ones which are ten times bigger, irrespective of the strength of the arguments. Accept it and move on.--Mais oui! (talk) 19:38, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

River Cart Aqueduct[edit]

If somebody could add a picture of the River Cart Aqueduct that would be great. It used to be an aqueduct, until it was converted into a railway bridge, but it's still called an aqueduct after 120 years. Google maps link. RandomPerson137 (talk) 23:09, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

If you search on Commons for White Cart Water you might find something. If not, you could try Geograph. Ben MacDui 09:45, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live![edit]

WikiProject X icon.svg

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

ScotWiki meetup in Glasgow, 1 February[edit]

The ScotWiki community has been growing pretty quickly and pretty impressively over the last two years! We've got two Wikimedians in Residence based north of the border now, one in Edinburgh and one starting next week in Glasgow. We've had 8 meetups since May 2013, and have launched a ScotWiki mailing list (which everyone is encouraged to join!) with over 60 members. We also hosted an extremely successful EduWiki 2014 conference in Edinburgh at the end of October.

The next meetup will take place in Glasgow at the CCA Saramago cafe, on 1 February from 13:00. It would be really great to see some new (or old!) faces from the WikiProject Scotland if anyone can make it! ACrockford (talk) 13:36, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

March 2015 Art+Feminism event in Dundee[edit]

Hi Scotland Wikipedians! I am reaching out to see if anyone would be interested in helping out with editing training for a Wikipedia:Meetup/ArtAndFeminism edit-a-thon being organized in Dundee. We would appreciate any assistance in securing at least one experienced Wikipedian in the area, and I'd be happy to put you in touch with the organizers if you are able to help out. If interested, please reply on wiki or by e-mail at Cheers! -Thepwnco (talk) 22:37, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Scottish Geography Task Force[edit]

Stumbled upon Category:Waterfalls of Scotland, through random article. Fairy Loup popped up, and it was a one liner (Fairy Loup is a waterfall in Scotland). Checking all 277 articles in the category and associated sub-categories, most of them are essentially that form. Identified only 19 which currently meet notability guidelines per geographic places.

Having found very little in the way of confirming notability, raised a "trial" Afd on the Fairy Loup article here, prior to putting in a series of bundled Afd nominations to clean up the category. Along comes a demon searcher and the results he achieved convinced me to withdraw the nomination.

To the point! There is a significant amount of work to get through all 277 articles. Is there an active Geography Taskforce who might be interested in picking up the gauntlet?

--Haruth (talk) 19:35, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Interesting. The first thing that I notice is that the editor who created all these stubs is banned for abusing multiple accounts, although it's not clear what other accounts he has used. I then notice that he has been discussed on the administrators' noticeboard for creating large numbers of geographical stubs for other parts of the world too, so fast that people suspected him of using some kind of a bot, though again I'm not sure there's evidence to back this up. However, given that these stubs exist, the question is are they worth keeping. We tend to view geographical features as inherently notable, and I suspect that many of the others could be brought up to scratch if they were subjected to the same effort that your test case was. (Cheers to the editor who did the rescue, by the way!) The problem is I think we just don't have enough editors with the time and inclination to do the work required. I don't think any such taskforce exists. --Deskford (talk) 23:38, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I created the original list of Scottish waterfalls, clear in my own head that the majority of falls would never merit their own article - appearance in the listing with a grid ref etc sufficing for WP purposes. I recall querying (to little effect) the editor to whom you refer on another list article where he'd done much the same. However some could doubtless be expanded to advantage but, as you observe, who has the time? cheers Geopersona (talk) 20:21, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm the editor who bailed out Fairy Loup. I've been looking over these articles as a whole, trying to come up with some organized approach to dealing with them, but it's rough. It's seemingly random which waterfalls have coverage and which don't. If I had my way, any of these which can be legitimately sourced with something interesting to say should be expanded into better-quality stubs. Those which cannot, but which are features of a named watercourse (river, stream, whatever) should be merged to the article for their parent body, and those which aren't able to be referenced and have no valid merge target should be redirected to the master Scottish waterfall list (and have their entry there delinked). One of the biggest barriers to enacting this is the state of articles on Scottish waterways: even some fairly significant tributaries are redlinks, to say nothing of the enormous number of smaller streams in the Highlands. That many of these features (and rivers!) have multiple names – including English and Gaelic toponyms, literal English translations of the Gaelic names, and a wealth of variant spellings – does not make this process any easier, especially for an American editor like myself with minimal knowledge of Scottish geography to begin with! Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 15:19, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Well, thank you for the bailout! To give an idea of the number of waterfalls in Scotland, I have a copy of The Waterfalls of Scotland by Louis Stott (1987) which has between a short paragraph and a couple of pages on, he says, 750 waterfalls though he says there are a thousand more that could be "easily distinguished". Looking closer, sometimes he merely has a grid reference. He says he has included everything on the 1:50,000 OS maps, plus all those named in the New Statistical Account, plus some others that have caught his attention. Fairy Loup is not included (not on 1:50,000 map either). Thincat (talk) 19:24, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
That seems like a reasonable place to start. At some point, a lot of work needs to be done on Scottish rivers, too (badly!) but at least with the waterfalls, we've got a list to work from. For the ones in the book that aren't just coordinates, there's probably better descriptions and coverage than random searching will provide. I'm sure this is easier with better access to local information, too! I added some content to Achness Falls, although I suspect there's more out there. I'm officially giving up on Allalith Linn for a host of reasons: Google Maps suggests that the stream is Allaloth Burn, not Allalith Burn, and at least seems to indicate that Allaloth Linn is the name for a section of the waterway before its confluence with the Burn of Tynet; the multiple conflicting meanings of linn aren't helping. Regardless, I'm having a hard time finding any concrete references to this. Honestly, I don't think I'm going to have the time or resources to tackle these myself, although I'd be happy to lend a hand if others do. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 21:39, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Stott seems to have given up on Allaloth Linn as well. (The place and the watercourse or waterfall could well be spelt differently and spelling can be various). Also no one has put up a photo on Geograph. I live in that part of Scotland (but I'm English) and to me a linn is a narrow gorge where water rushes through, not necessarily a waterfall. However my Scots dictionary says it's a pool at the base of a fall or the actual fall itself. I've added to Achness Falls – Stott has two short paragraphs split by two pages of photos, hence the 106–109 page range. He organises his book by river/tributary so I'll see how that compares with what WP has. I'm happy to add a bit from time to time (ping me?) but I don't want to take on a major task that I'll never finish. Thincat (talk) 23:22, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Ah! The glossary in Stott: Linn: Waterfall; strictly the pool below a waterfall; in southern Scotland often the stream as a whole; rarely, a gorge. So it looks like I have been wrong. Thincat (talk) 23:35, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Invergordon Distillery Pipe Band[edit]

Does anybody have any ideas for good sources for Invergordon Distillery Pipe Band? This legendary band existed for just four years and didn't leave much trace, but contained some of the finest players of the century. Ostrichyearning (talk) 11:06, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Comment on Roman Cartography in History of Scotland[edit]

The issue of whether to include text and images on Ptolomy's mapping of Scotland and related issues at History of Scotland is taking place at Talk:History of Scotland#RFC. The views of other editors on the issue would be much appreciated.--SabreBD (talk) 07:59, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Joan Curran Summer House[edit]

I am after a picture of the Joan Curran Summer House. It's like a gazebo on the grounds of Ross Priory at the University of Strathclyde in Glasgow. If a Wikipedian with a camera could take a photograph, it would be much appreciated. Hawkeye7 (talk) 23:36, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Vitrified forts[edit]

There were some comments, misplaced into the Vitrified fort article by an IP claiming to be archaeologist Euan MacKie, which I've moved to the talk page. The comments call the article into question and whether genuinely by Mackie or not, indicate a book chapter which may be a useful source for the article, should someone have it. Mutt Lunker (talk) 01:15, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Feelers for ScotWiki meetup in April[edit]

Hi all - wanted to put some feelers out for the next ScotWiki meetup! I thought sometime in early-mid April would be good, but was hoping to hear from folk about what days/times would suit best? We have been meeting Sunday afternoons, but weekday evenings might be a better shot for some. Also, at the last meetup, it was suggested we look for a location near Haymarket station in Edinburgh. What's the thought on this? Input, please! ACrockford (talk) 14:47, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

There's a new pub right by Haymarket station called Platform 5 that might be suitable? They show sport though, so maybe check sports fixtures in case anything big's on..Lirazelf (talk) 09:29, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
Platform 5 looked like a great place, and while there was one person on the mailing list who had mentioned 1 April as a possible date, it seemed just too soon to give people enough notice, so I've set up an events page for a meetup on Wednesday 22 April, 18:30 at Platform 5 near Haymarket. All welcome, please spread the word! ACrockford (talk) 13:38, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
Diary-ed, and will do! Lirazelf (talk) 13:54, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Scottish Fairground Culture Editathon, May 2015[edit]

Hello all! If you're a fan of all things fairground, I'd love to see you at the Scottish Fairground culture editathon at the Riverside Museum on 7 May, 1pm-5pm. Details on the event page. Drop me a line on my talk page, Wikimedian in Residence Project page, or email if you've got any questions! Lirazelf (talk) 16:10, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Oh dear, linkfail! Here's the correct one... Scottish Fairground Culture Editathon Lirazelf (talk) 10:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Ronald Stevenson[edit]

Do we have any guidelines as to when we identify people as "Scottish", "English" or "British"? Ronald Stevenson is described as "British" in the (very short) lead, but is placed in categories including Category:English composers and Category:20th-century English musicians. He was born and educated in England, but came from a Scottish family and spent most of his adult life in Scotland. In my experience he was always thought of as a Scottish composer, and he identified himself with Scottish culture and tradition, as is clear from the Independent obituary. Is there a way of resolving this without opening up cans of political worms? --Deskford (talk) 14:53, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Population stats[edit]

Per my post at Talk:Fife I think there is a problem with population stats in the lede but its ref has succumbed to link rot and I'm unable to find the correct figures. Any pointers please? Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:34, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Clan Tennant: any interested editors?[edit]

I want to bring Clan Tennant into the Wiki spotlight by way of opening the case of a future article for a prospective project editor.

I have casually looked at the Clan Tennant: Motto, Crest, Tartan, and history. This includes the wiki articles on Baron Glenconner, and 3rd Baron Glenconner, who I believe represent the Clan Tennant as chiefs.

"As of 2014 the titles are held by the third Baron's grandson, the fourth Baron, who, when he succeeded in August 2010 became the next to youngest peer in the Realm." ... "Cody Charles Edward Tennant, 4th Baron Glenconner (born 1994); grandson of the 3rd Baron through the Hon. Charles Tennant."

It does interest me to find away to further the heritage here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1001bobs (talkcontribs) 08:31, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

New Scottish MPs[edit]

The 2015 general election replaced 50 out of 59 Scottish MPs with newcomers. Full list at List of MPs for constituencies in Scotland 2015–20.

Some of these new articles have been developed very well, but 34 of the 50 articles on new Scottish MPs are still stubs. I thought that it be helpful to post a list of the 34 articles, so here it is.

Anyone interested working on these biographies should find that there should be plenty of sources available, both from when candidates were selected in January and February 2015, and after the election in May.

Hope this helps ... and if not, sorry for intruding. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:30, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

New Scottish MPs which are still stubs[edit]

Feel free to strike out any which are unstubbed. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)

Move discussion at Talk:Isle of Mull[edit]

Latha math, I just wanted to notify people here that a move discussion is currently going on at Talk:Isle of Mull#Requested move 26 May 2015 and I'm trying to generate more interest – I don't think this falls under WP:CANVAS because this place is neutral. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 04:18, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, commented there. Notifying an interested project seems a legitimate and appropriate thing to do. --Deskford (talk) 09:13, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Alexander Brodie (1697–1754) listed at Requested moves[edit]


A requested move discussion has been initiated for Alexander Brodie (1697–1754) to be moved to Alexander Brodie of that Ilk. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 23:22, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

ScotWiki meetup in June - Glasgow Edition, anyone?[edit]

Hi folks! Just putting out a call to see who might be interested in a Glasgow meetup - thinking Thursday 18th June, 6.30pm, somewhere like the Drum & Monkey on St Vincent / Renfield? Shout if you'd like to attend! Lirazelf (talk) 11:26, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Hello again folks - I've created a meetup page for the 18th June - 6.30-8.30pm at the Drum & Monkey in Glasgow - hoep to see you there! Do let us know if you're coming... Lirazelf (talk) 15:50, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Pride[edit]

You are invited to participate in Wiki Loves Pride!

  • What? Wiki Loves Pride, a campaign to document and photograph LGBT culture and history, including pride events
  • When? June 2015
  • How can you help?
    1.) Create or improve LGBT-related articles and showcase the results of your work here
    2.) Upload photographs or other media related to LGBT culture and history, including pride events, and add images to relevant Wikipedia articles; feel free to create a subpage with a gallery of your images (see examples from last year)
    3.) Contribute to an LGBT-related task force at another Wikimedia project (Wikidata, Wikimedia Commons, Wikivoyage, etc.)

Or, view or update the current list of Tasks. This campaign is supported by the Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group, an officially recognized affiliate of the Wikimedia Foundation. Visit the group's page at Meta-Wiki for more information, or follow Wikimedia LGBT+ on Facebook. Remember, Wiki Loves Pride is about creating and improving LGBT-related content at Wikimedia projects, and content should have a neutral point of view. One does not need to identify as LGBT or any other gender or sexual minority to participate. This campaign is about adding accurate, reliable information to Wikipedia, plain and simple, and all are welcome!

If you have any questions, please leave a message on the campaign's main talk page.

Thanks, and happy editing!

User:Another Believer and User:OR drohowa

New stub on Highland Minute (1885 education subsidies for rural schools)[edit]

I somehow ran across mention of this, no idea where, so years ago put it on my To Do list and just now knocked out a stub on it. I find it interesting that on GoogleBooks I find almost nothing about it written in the last 50 years or more, just hits from roughly the period and a few decades following. Perhaps someone else has some ideas on how to beef this up, or help tie it into the larger context of education in Scotland? MatthewVanitas (talk) 13:48, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Superfluous "Lakes of..."/"Lochs of..." cat duplication[edit]

I've notified User:Hmains that their creation of numerous "Lakes of Foo (council area)" in duplication of the existing "Lochs of Foo (council area)" is superfluous; presumably down to a WP:ENGVAR misunderstanding. I did make a start dealing with the nominations for deletion but can't really continue at the moment. See Category:Lakes of Scotland by council area if anyone wants to take a look. Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:01, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Is it possible to make a bulk nomination of a list of categories for deletion, in the same way you can for pages? --Deskford (talk) 12:55, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
It would be very handy if there is. Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Now CFDed here. Mutt Lunker (talk) 20:29, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
It would be useful if the CFDs appeared at Wikipedia:WikiProject Scotland/Article alerts but I'm not sure what triggers the bot to pick it up. Any ideas? Mutt Lunker (talk) 09:59, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
My guess is that because these new categories don't have the WikiProject Scotland banner in their talk pages, the bot doesn't recognize them as being of interest to this project. --Deskford (talk) 10:50, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
sorry, my apologies, I am months behind in trying to project tag scottish categories....JarrahTree 10:54, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
Aha, that's the key - thanks both. I'll pitch in. Mutt Lunker (talk) 12:05, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
When new cats are created, in most cases no project tag is added, that is the problem... JarrahTree 01:13, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Sure. Mutt Lunker (talk) 07:42, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Problem is we have variant main pages of relevant categories in the project - something like the dialogue in Category:Lochs_of_South_Lanarkshire something more sparse at Category:Lochs_of_Fife or the really dry lake approach of Category:Lochs_of_Argyll_and_Bute - as a project, or whoever wants to throw their sixpence in, - there is a need for consistency... I prefer the way I did fife - but await any response to this... JarrahTree 10:16, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

project comment required[edit]

Are scottish council areas strictly synonymous with english countiees? JarrahTree 07:26, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Not really, because all Scottish councils are single-tier ("unitary authorities"). In England, although there are some unitary authorities, many counties are the upper tier of a two-tier system, with boroughs at the more local level, whilst in the metropolitan areas the county has no council and everything is taken care of by the borough. --Deskford (talk) 13:34, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

2015 IPC Swimming Championship[edit]

Next week the 2015 IPC Swimming World Championships will commence at the Tollcross Centre in Glasgow. I've knocked up the article to cover the event and will update the results over the tournament. Unfortunately I'm stuck in Wales and won't be able to get there to capture any images. If there are any Scottish Wikipedians that are going to the tournament I would love you to grab some shots from the pool, but I would even appreciate someone in the Glasgow who could just take a photo of the centre from the outside maybe draped in IPC logos showing the event. Thanks in advance, FruitMonkey (talk) 21:49, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

More cleanup required[edit]

The same editor who caused the confusion over lakes and lochs (see above) has also been making prolific changes in other areas. Whilst I'm sure these edits are well-intentioned, and many have cleaned up aspects of article categorization, some have been unhelpful. I suspect this editor is not aware of the culture of Scotland, such as the peculiar sensitivity to calling lochs "lakes", and he/she seems to believe that Mull is uninhabited, and that the islands of the Firth of Clyde and Pentland Firth are part of the Inner Hebrides. He/she has also moved many articles on islands without discussion away from the comma-based disambiguation specified by WP:UKPLACE to parenthetic disambiguation, e.g. Jura, Scotland to Jura (Scotland). I have moved back the main islands that were affected, Jura, Lismore, Yell and Sanday, but there seem to be many more smaller islands needing attention. We seem to be very short of active editors here at the moment – any help appreciated! --Deskford (talk) 13:47, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

I'd suggest drawing the editor's attention to your post here so that they can return to the articles they have affected and pitch in with the cleanup and reversions required. Mutt Lunker (talk) 14:39, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
Good suggestion. I did raise the issue on their talk page a month ago, but let's try pinging them here... @Hmains: if you could help with moving these Scottish island pages back to their agreed names using comma-based disambiguation then I would be very grateful, as I'm sure would be many of my fellow Scottish WP editors. --Deskford (talk) 22:30, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
If anyone knows how to mechanically make such changes, I would like to know how. Changing names by ordinary editors like me seems to be a one-way path--if I could even find which ones are involved. Hmains (talk) 01:46, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure if there is a way of doing it mechanically. Reverting page moves often requires administrator action – which makes WP:BRD difficult to apply in practice – so I was rather surprised to find I was allowed to move back the ones I did. --Deskford (talk) 12:57, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
Still quite a few articles moved by @Hmains: that haven't been returned to their original location. Here are some: Eilean Mòr (Loch Dunvegan), Eilean Mòr (Loch Langavat), Eilean Glas (Scalpay), East Loch Tarbert (Argyll), West Loch Tarbert (Argyll), Loch Tarber (Jura), Wiay (Uist), Papa (Shetland), Pabbay (Harris), Oronsay (Outer Hebrides), Oronsay (Loch Bracadale), Lamba (Shetland), Lingay (Fiaray), Langa (Shetland), Linga (Hildasay), Linga (Yell), Linga (Vementry), Linga (Vaila), Linga (Samphrey), Linga (Muckle Roe), Linga Sound (Shetland), Eas Mòr (upper), Eas Mòr (lower), Forsan (Shetland), Blae Loch (Beith), Lochlea (South Ayrshire), Lochend Loch (Coylton), Lindston Loch (South Ayrshire), Galrigs Loch (Ayrshire), Clevens Loch (Ayrshire), Loch o' th' Lowes (New Cumnock), Black Loch (New Cumnock), Holy Isle (Firth of Clyde), Hoy (Shetland), Ward Hill (Hoy), Càrn Dearg (Monadh Liath), Ben Vorlich (Loch Lomond), Uyea (Unst), Uyea (Northmavine), Little Holm (Yell Sound), Little Holm (Scatness), Muckle Holm (Yell Sound), Bigga (Shetland), Balta (Shetland), Fara (Orkney), Cava (Orkney), Harris (Scotland), Insh (Slate Islands), Soay (St Kilda), Lingeigh (North Uist), Flodday (Loch Maddy), Stroma (Scotland), Inner Sound (Scotland), River Carron (Sutherland), River Carron (Forth), River Devon (Clackmannanshire), River Esk (Lothian), River Tyne (Scotland), River Almond (Lothian), River Almond (Perth and Kinross), River Leven (Dunbartonshire), River Calder (Renfrewshire), River Tyne (Scotland), River Dee (Aberdeenshire), River Don (Aberdeenshire), Dorback Burn (Findhorn), River Isla (Moray), River Esk (Dumfries and Galloway), River Dee (Galloway), Douglas Water (Loch Fyne), Loch Fada (Colonsay), Loch Long (Highlands), Lake Louise (Skibo Castle), Fraoch Eilean (Loch Lomond), Meall Buidhe (Glen Lyon), Sandwick (Whalsay), Little Water (Whalsay). I hope we can make some progress with this. Drchriswilliams (talk) 16:00, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
I think that's the list above dealt with now, pending a few requiring admin attention. Mutt Lunker (talk) 13:17, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
That's quite a list. I've moved two more back – Soay, St Kilda and Harris, Scotland – as I happened to come across them, but I don't have time to go systematically through the list. I notice in fact that Harris has been moved back and forth between Harris, Scotland and Harris, Outer Hebrides several times. I'm not sure which corresponds more closely to our naming convention. --Deskford (talk) 15:29, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
In regard to the time required to sort this all out, it's rather disappointing that the editor responsible appears to have plenty to carry out fresh edits but not to return here to clean up after themself. Mutt Lunker (talk) 15:42, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

ScotWiki Summer meetup - Edinburgh[edit]

Hello all! Just want to gauge interest in an August meetup in Edinburgh, or should we wait till after Festival madness? Lirazelf (talk) 09:54, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

St John's Renfield Church[edit]

It seems to me that the "St John's Renfield Church" article needs to be bolstered up. The fact the Chalmers himself was the first Minister at St John's, the switch at the Dissension to the Free church, the memorable Ministry of Dods at Renfield and the quantity of Moderators and professors that the Church produced are worthy of a more detailed article.

Over the next 2 days, I intend to expand the historical section, provide a complete list of Ministers since 1819 while leaving the rest of the article untouched.

Please look in and comment. Kpobi2 (talk) 15:29, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Question on Dalrymple, Ayrshire[edit]

Hello, I tried to disambiguate a couple of links to Dalrymple. Turns out this Wikipedia has links to a Dalrymple, East Ayrshire and a Dalrymple, South Ayrshire. But looking at the coordinates on a map, it seems to me it's the same Dalrymple. Is there maybe a difference between the village and the parish, the latter possibly stretching out across two council areas? Anyone in the know, please have a look, and see if you can get the links and associated articles fixed. Rgds, --Midas02 (talk) 03:50, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

I think you're right about the village/parish situation. Looking at the OS map, the village is at the tip of westwards projecting salient of East Ayrshire into South Ayrshire with the boundary skirting the village to the north and south and with a small part of the village south of the River Doon in S Ayrshire, as is the Dalrymple wood less than a mile to the south west. It's not unusual for parishes to lie across historical county or modern political divisions though I don't know if this is a result of the creation of the latest 1996 divisions or not. Not sure how to resolve the existence of the two links but if the parish is indeed split between E and S Ayrshire, I guess Dalrymple, East Ayrshire and Dalrymple, South Ayrshire are both valid units but unlikely to support stand-alone articles under their part-parish definition. Possibly an addition to the dab page to make:
or the like? Not sure if Dalrymple, South Ayrshire should stay red-linked, be a redirect to Dalrymple, East Ayrshire or to the dab page though. Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:38, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! I implemented a modified version of that change, at the Dalrymple disambiguation page. (Since Dalrymple, South Ayrshire is currently a redlink, there needs to be a supporting bluelink to an article that uses the redlink in a meaningful context, per MOS:DABRL.) doncram 18:04, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
Here's a map of the parish which would support that the parish lies across the council boundary, the Doon forming the parish boundary (although they display slightly misaligned in my browser at least) and the parts of the parish to the west and immediately to the north of the village falling in modern S Ayrshire.
Regarding the links to Dalrymple, South Ayrshire: Kerse Loch is in East Ayrshire so I've corrected this; the William Burnes one regards the 18th century parish school in the village itself which should probably therefore link to the village article at Dalrymple, East Ayrshire, even if it happened to fall in the tiny part of the village now in S Ayrshire, likewise amended. Carcluie Loch and Lindston Loch, South Ayrshire are a little over a mile to the north west and north east of the village respectively but are in S Ayrshire. Mutt Lunker (talk) 11:08, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks to both of you for your attention to this matter. The fact that South Ayrshire borders Dalrymple on the south, and yet comes around to the north, tricked me, about Lindston Loch, South Ayrshire. It was complicated by the fact that Google maps can show East Ayrshire's borders when one searches on East Ayshire (and are zoomed out, they go visible when zoomed in), but not when one searches on Lindston Loch. And also by the fact that the article did not display coordinates for Lindston Loch. I revised the Lindston Loch article to display coordinates in its lede, instead of in the Lakes infobox, and with use of name= parameter but not type= parameter (see history of article for various permutations tried. I am left wondering why the article says the loch "was" a freshwater lake, when it still is. Maybe it was meant to say the loch was once much larger or something?
Kerse Loch's coordinates also do not display. I'll leave that as is, could one of you fix it? Perhaps you can figure out if there is a general problem for coordinates display for lakes in this area. Thanks. doncram 17:51, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
I was just about to post on the talk page to the same effect as, although not large, Lindston Loch is clearly marked on the OS map, about 150 metres in length. Yes, it's also marked on Google maps but the satellite view indicates a clearing between and surrounded by a wood to the north and south, with vegetation, including some shrubs or small trees. Does it appear seasonally perhaps? Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:03, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
The only problem left is that Dalrymple, South Ayrshire is now leading a life as a red link, and will more than probably never receive an article. Wouldn't it be best to redirect it to Dalrymple, and make a note of it on the article that there is a) a village predominantly lying with E. Ayrshire, and b) a parish, which stretches out across both councils (which would also correct the current statement which reads "... is a village and civil parish in East Ayrshire, Scotland")? --Midas02 (talk) 03:27, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
Dalrymple, South Ayrshire should exist solely as a redirect. That is because the parish of Dalrymple is a single entity that is in both council areas. The dab page should not link to Dalrymple, South Ayrshire, but the listing for Dalrymple should mention it is partially in South Ayrshire. The lead of the article should also mention that the parish is in both areas.
An alternative solution is to split the two meanings of Dalrymple into two separate articles - making Dalrymple, East Ayrshire solely about the village, and creating Dalrymple (civil parish). This may be a better solution as articles solely about parishes (eg Abernethy and Kincardine) are viable.--Nilfanion (talk) 09:12, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Note this is not a issue solely for Dalyrmple. By my estimation, 55 parishes of the 871 parishes listed by the GRO cross council area boundaries.

Some of these are relatively minor and would not be the case if the parish boundaries were not frozen from 80 years ago (eg Edinburgh would be aligned to the current boundary). Straiton is even worse than Dalrymple, as its about 50% in the "wrong" council area.--Nilfanion (talk) 09:05, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Ok, I've fixed it then as per the proposition I made. The South Ayrshire link has been redirected to the article as well. That will do for the time being. If someone wants to create an article about the civil parish at a later point in time, he can always do so. If it's not against the naming standard, you may want to ask an admin to move the whole article to Dalrymple, Scotland as well, as it is the common denominator for a civil parish which lies in both council areas. --Midas02 (talk) 01:53, 16 August 2015 (UTC)


Could someone who knows about the Norse origins of Shetland names please look at this edit on Vidlin? Other edits by this user have been non-constructive, but with this one I'm unsure. A source would be useful. --Deskford (talk) 20:16, 24 August 2015 (UTC)