Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting

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WikiProject Scouting (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
 Project  This page does not require a rating on the project's quality scale.
 
Article Content, remarks
Scouting Describes the movement of Scouting: history (founding, growth), activities one does in Scouting, organization, should cover both male & mixed sections (Scouts and Cubs) and female only (Girl Guides and Brownies), younger/older sections, international
Scout Movement redirect to Scouting
Scout (Scout Movement) About the members, boys or girls aged 11-17 years, activities they do in Scouting, the Scout section, Troop/Patrol, Scout Law, Motto, Uniform. Not about history, not about the organization or movement.
Scout remains disambiguation page
Girl Guide and Girl Scout About the members of Girl Guiding (Girl Scouting in the USA and some other countries)
Girl Guide, Girl Scout redirect to GG&GS (US line of thinking)
Cub Scout, Brownie (Girl Guides) About the little boy/girl
Robert Baden-Powell, 1st Baron Baden-Powell About the person Baden-Powell, and his personal history. Not about the Scout movement other than his input/influence. Lots of redirects here, btw.
Boy Scouts, Girl Guides, etc General summary pages that have see also links to other Scouting pages. Used to avoid to lead users to more indepth articles, no longer disambiguation pages due to all the confusion of different naming conventions. All other plurals redirect to the singular per Wikipedia standard, not to Scouting or a separate organization oriented article
WOSM, WAGGGS Articles about the current international organization. Not about the Scouting movement, history pertaining to the organization only.

24th World Scout Jamboree[edit]

How would you folks feel about submitting this one for page protection to admins? Two years off and it is already getting promotionally fluffed. #'Murica. --Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 13:32, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Well, that happened once. It should be sufficent to contact the contributor, who seems to be part of the Jamboree team. If that doesn't work, a direct contact with the Jamboree mamangement team could help; that was quite succesfull concerning unlicensed image usage on the website of the World Scout Moot 2017. --jergen (talk) 09:23, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

new edits to WOSM[edit]

Is https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=World_Organization_of_the_Scout_Movement&curid=104809&diff=799698508&oldid=799697539 a real thing or a vanity edit?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 15:38, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Could be real, see https://www.scout.org/governance for the organizational structure. Says one member of the WSF board.Naraht (talk) 19:27, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Good news for once![edit]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/scouts-enjoys-comeback-as-parents-want-kids-off-devices/news-story/271bd8f9f3bd9dcf5f26a5c17388d781 Scouts enjoys comeback as parents want kids off devices--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 00:13, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Clicking Kintetsubuffalo's link took me to a paywall, but doing a Google search for "Scouts Australia news" brought up a readable version. I'm sure there's a technical explanation. Curious that the figure they use is "recruitments" rather than an increase in the total number of members (perhaps there isn't one). Alansplodge (talk) 08:53, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Now girls can be Boy Scouts of America![edit]

On October 11, 2017, the BSA announced that girls would be allowed to become Cub Scouts, starting in 2018, and that in 2019, a separate program for older girls will be available, enabling girls to earn the rank of Eagle Scout.[1][2]

This is a welcome and needed step that should have happened 35 years ago. This is way more monumental than previous changes. Now American girls have a viable alternative!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 01:45, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

As someone who worked hard in the 1960s to get UK Scouting to admit girls at all levels, running several activities where Boy Scouts and Girls Guides worked together, I offer my congratulations to the BSA, but like in other respects they are bit slow to change. --Bduke (Discussion) 02:14, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Bduke I've been saying for years to anyone who will listen that GSUSA, among others, has blocked BSA from being coed.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-boy-scouts-girls-20171011-story.html
"The Girl Scouts of the USA, which is separate from and independent of the Boy Scouts, has been the primary scouting alternative for girls, and claims a membership of 1.8 million.
More recently, a rift has emerged between the two groups.
In August, Kathy Hopinkah Hannan, the president of the Girl Scouts, sent a letter to the Boy Scouts of America accusing the group of carrying out a “covert campaign to recruit girls into programs” in the hopes of bolstering declining membership. Hannan wrote that it was “reckless” and shortsighted in “thinking that running a program specifically tailored to boys can simply be translated to girls.”
On Wednesday, officials from the Girl Scouts did not immediately respond to a request for comment. However, the organization issued a statement that implicitly challenged the Boy Scouts’ decision without mentioning it.
“The need for female leadership has never been clearer or more urgent than it is today — and only Girl Scouts has the expertise to give girls and young women the tools they need for success,” the statement says. “We’re committed to preparing the next generation of women leaders, and we’re here to stay.”
One individual close to the Girl Scouts, who requested anonymity to speak freely about the group’s concerns, said that it believes the policy shift by the Boy Scouts is an effort to increase a membership that has declined by nearly a third since 2000."--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 02:37, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
I am not surprised. Talks to merge Scouts and Guides in UK failed because the Guides wanted to continue a program restricted to girls. The Scouts went on to recruit girls, first into the older age sectiosn and later into the younger sections just like BSA is doing.--Bduke (Discussion) 06:21, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
My sister says "Aren’t most other countries with Scouts already co-ed? With Girl Guides as an all-girl alternative. Sounds like we’re moving in the right direction, wish this was available 30 years ago! I’ve seen the comments from GSUSA crying about this - sounds like they’re worried they’ll lose membership. Gee, why would they be worried if they’re so great? Been reading message boards and so many other women’s experiences echo mine: boring Girl Scout troop, didn’t do interesting things, watched our brothers go to Philmont, jamborees, and summer camps with independence and longed to join Boy Scouts. If this takes away from GSUSA then it’s their fault. They don’t have any sort of lock on “...the expertise to give girls and young women the tools they need for success...” I got plenty of that through Civil Air Patrol and I was never made to feel different or lesser because I was a girl. It was a very egalitarian organization. And girls can get Eagle Scout!! It’s such a lie that the GSUSA Gold Award is ‘equivalent’ to Eagle Scout. No one outside of college admissions has ever heard of the Gold Award. So happy about this change."--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 15:54, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
But they are still called ボーイスカウト bōisukauto in Japan, which is weird. So I do wonder what they will call the US org.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 16:37, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
The same in Suriname, the coed Scout organisation is named "Boy Scouts van Suriname". --Egel Reaction? 10:37, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
Best reactions I've seen-
  • "GSUSA has their own issues, that aren't as well publicized or known. Frankly, if they weren't selling cookies every year, they'd probably be broke."
  • "In Australia they all do the same activities together and are just Scouts (or Cub Scouts in this case). Some of my best patrol leaders have been the girls, sshhh, don't tell the boys that!"
  • "Portugal both genders since 1976, they sleep separate, but they work together!"
  • "In Sweden we have Scouts.... gender not specified. All Scouts are held to the same promise and laws. No segregation. A Scout, is a Scout, is a Scout."
  • "I'm from the United States and I'm an Eagle Scout and so are my 2 boys. I've been the Scoutmaster of Troop 263 in Half Moon Bay, California since 2008. I started the Police Explorer program at the Foster City police Department 20 years ago. It was coed. I was the Director of the San Mateo County Law Enforcement Explorer Academy for 5 years and that was 20 years ago. Staff and students were coed. I served as the Assistant Course Director for the last 3 years for the National Youth Leadership Course. Staff and students were coed. From my perspective, those little devious girls have been in Scouting for the last 20 friggen years! Who knew? Bottom line for me, I chose those girls to be in positions of authority because they had a better grasp on supervision and management then the boys at the same age. So, what we are talking about is an evolution versus a revolution of ideas. I had the opportunity to serve at the 2015 World Jamboree in Japan. 30,000 Scouts from 162 different countries. I'm from the United States and it doesn't pass my observation that at least 161 countries allow girls in their Scouting programs at all ages. The United States did not. We are in the business of helping our youth. As such, I am gender neutral. I can't tell you the number of women who have told me that they wished the Boy Scouts would have allowed their daughters to be Scouts because we have a better program then the Girl Scouts. Not my words, theirs. So, at long last, we will have girls in the Boy Scout system. Oh my God, what does that mean? From my experience over the last 20 years, you need to have an adult female on over-night events. Ooooh-scary. I don't want to trivialize the issue as we are talking about 100+ years of tradition. But at the same time, we are in the business of helping youth. I for one, don't care what gender they are."

--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 09:56, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Cool. Things will get really complicated if they work to go fully co-ed on the "Boy Scouts" part of Boy Scouts. It will be interesting to watch this evolve. North8000 (talk) 13:04, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

References

Youth organizations in the United States+WPMOS[edit]

This article is a mess-I see several of our intrepid members have tried to clean out this rat's nest from time to time. I did a little pruning today, but it needs monitoring.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 04:13, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

I've restored the capitalization section of Scouting WPMOS, which is meant for pedantic users just like this. "When Scout, Scouting, Boy Scout, Girl Scout, Guide and Scouting-related award names, progression levels, age sections, other language equivalents (i.e. Second Class, Varsity Scout, Eagle Scout, Bronze Wolf) are used in articles in the context of the Scouting Movement, they are considered proper nouns and are always capitalized..."

The Duke of Edinburgh's Award?[edit]

I thought this was something UK Scouts could earn, but no mention of it...--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 08:13, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

  • They can earn it, but so can any youth. It is not a Scouting award, although Scouting, like other youth organisations, helps young people to earn it. --Bduke (Discussion) 08:52, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
Although the 2001 revision of the training programme was specifically designed so that it could be run in tandem with the DoE scheme. I'll try to find some sources. Alansplodge (talk) 15:59, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
Aha! It is mentioned at The Scout Association#Current award scheme: "The final three awards, The Chief Scout's Platinum and Diamond Awards and the Queen's Scout Award are available in the Explorer Scout and Scout Network sections. The awards mirror the requirements of The Duke of Edinburgh's Award at Bronze, Silver and Gold level respectively... allowing a participant to achieve both the DofE and the Scout award at the same time". I have additionally added a brief para at The Scout Association#Relations with other organisations. Alansplodge (talk) 16:36, 11 November 2017 (UTC)