Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs

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WikiProject Songs (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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August Rigo link please[edit]

Hello, can we link August Rigo to his wikipedia page? He wrote this song as well as the new song Tough Love on Chris Brown's Heartbreak on a Full Moon album.

MTV Adds & Rotation re: Flashdance videos[edit]

I'm planning to add information to the pages for the Flashdance soundtrack, "Flashdance... What a Feeling", and "Maniac", and I've been going through old issues of Billboard to confirm that the Irene Cara song was never included on their lists for MTV adds and rotation while the Michael Sembello song was. I came across a source that said that videos for those two songs as well as Donna Summer's "Romeo" and Laura Branigan's "Imagination" from the album were submitted to the cable channel, but only the Sembello and Summer videos were listed as being in rotation in the magazine.

Is it OK for me to indicate that the Cara and Branigan videos were not on these lists (as opposed to just saying the videos never got played)? And, if so, how do I cite several issues of the magazine in which they would have appeared? Thanks! Danaphile (talk) 01:34, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Well, I would say no, because that would be WP:SYNTH, adding something that's not explicitly stated in the source, but arrived at by personal deduction, which is to be avoided.
On a wider issue, I'm not sure MTV adds are considered a particularly important piece of information to include in a song article - I realise MTV had only been going a couple of years at this point (and actually played music still), so being included on the MTV playlist was more of a big deal back then. But it still doesn't strike me as particularly noteworthy information to include. Richard3120 (talk) 11:35, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Help request with making articles on number one songs[edit]

Hello. I was wondering if anyone would like to help make articles on missing number one songs. To name a few:

There are also a lot of templates in the Category:Record chart templates that I haven't checked yet. If anyone is interested in making articles for #1 singles in a specific country/chart please let me know. Thanks :) --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 01:42, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Record charts are proliferating. Sometimes with a very narrow focus (apparently "Smooth Jazz Songs" is based on airplay on 14 smooth jazz radio stations), being a number one isn't always an indicator of notability. Maybe articles for many of these haven't been created because they don't meet the second part of the WP:NSONGS criteria: "Notability aside, a standalone article is appropriate only when there is enough material to warrant a reasonably detailed article; articles unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs should be merged to articles about an artist or album." —Ojorojo (talk) 16:46, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Eh, sometimes, but that's really more of the mantra about charting in a general sense. Topping a chart is a bit different - getting to number 1 on a chart is generally enough to scrape by the bottom of the WP:GNG at least. At least on the rock music side of things, which is where I've been spending much of the last 2 years on, anyways. Could be different for things like Jazz, but rock isn't exactly at the zenith of its popularity in 2018 either... Sergecross73 msg me 17:01, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
@Ojorojo: Not necessarily. I think it's more they just haven't been made in general. For example I made I'm Making Believe which charted at #1 on the National Best Selling Retail Records chart, a precursor of the Hot 100 Billboard chart. There are a lot of redlinks which suggests that articles creation haven't been attempted yet. And yes, I've seen articles been redirected even if they've reached #1 i.e Open Your Eyes (Disturbed song) but that's because there was only one source listed. If more sources were found/added to pass GNG then it should be fine. Either way, I think there should be more encouragement of article creation to have them pass the GNG, especially if they hit the big charts. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 17:07, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
I don't think "Open Your Eyes"[1]] was reverted because it only had one ref. It was a non-article – an infobox, two sentences, and a chart table (maybe a track listing table would have helped). "I'm Making Believe" has the appearance of a "reasonably detailed article", but it doesn't tell much: is it swing or more pop, big band or combo, fast or slow, are the lyrics significant to the movie storyline, how does the Ink Spots version compare, why are the Three Suns, etc., versions important? WP should try to provide encyclopedic content. —Ojorojo (talk) 02:06, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
I mean, your points are valid in a general sense, but I think you’re misunderstanding a bit - no one is particularly advocating the creation of these barebones one sentence type articles. “Open Your Eyes” was meant to be an example of the type of thing to fix. The point would be to develop them into encyclopedic content. It’s not that they’re impossible, it’s more that no one has put the work in to develop them, and the fact that they were chart toppers could be an argument that they’re the sort of thing worthy of more of an effort. While not chart toppers, articles like 3 Libras or Blue (A Perfect Circle song) come to mind as examples - while initially redirected for being a sentence or so and under-sourced, were expanded out of stub status with a bit of research for sources and effort into writing. That would be more of the end goal here. Sergecross73 msg me 03:28, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Songs released posthumously[edit]

Hello, all! I'm currently working on revising the List of songs recorded by Aaliyah as there are very few refs and it just looks out of sorts for a singer who was iconic in the R&B world. For those who are unfamiliar with the singer: Three studio albums released between 1994 and 2001, and multiple collaborations and guest appearances before her death in 2001. She was only 22 and at the peak of her career. So, I have a couple questions:

  1. Quite a few songs have been "leaked" posthumously. Are these to be included in the list, especially if finding a ref for the "release/leak" year and/or the writers is extremely difficult, if not impossible?
  2. A few songs have been released in recent years by current R&B artists (like Chris Brown and Drake) in which they took unreleased vocals done by Aaliyah prior to her death and intertwined them into a song that they then recorded. Are these to be included as well?

If you care to take a look, the list is in one of my sandboxes, so you can get sort of an idea of what I'm talking about. Any feedback and advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance! — Miss Sarita 20:10, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

  1. I generally include things like this as long as reliable sources cover it/confirm that they're legit. If it's just some random user uploading a track to Youtube or something, then I omit it.
  2. I personally find this interesting and part of the overall scope of the article, but I could be wrong on it. I know, for instance, people generally don't add "remixes" on these sorts of lists, because of the fact that vocals weren't so much recorded for the remixes as much as they were generally just taken from the original recording, and as such, the remix wasn't so much "a song recorded by X artist". (I didn't understand this until I reached out to someone directly and had them explain - it initially baffled me.) Anyways, so I'm not sure, the same logic would apply here?
I apologize, I can really only respond from a general editing perspective - I personally have only ever created one of those "List of songs" articles, and it was for a band that has very little in the way of unreleased material... Sergecross73 msg me 21:13, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
I think I would agree with Sergecross73 here - in the first case we have songs that were completed but unreleased, so if there are sources for them we could legitimately call them "songs by Aaliyah". In the second case we're just talking fragments of vocals, that were never complete songs, and the new melody by Drake or whoever might be entirely different to the original intended music track. So these are more "samples" than anything else, and I don't think they count as Aaliyah's songs. You could maybe mention them in a footnote at the bottom of the article, if you can reliably source them. Richard3120 (talk) 23:54, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
I like that idea, having them as a footnote or separate section explaining the difference. But I suppose it could depend on if you plan on taking it to GA/FA too - if you get a stickler of a reviewer, they could object to its inclusion, based on how past lists have been handled. Sergecross73 msg me 12:50, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
I do plan on possibly taking it to FL, but I truly feel like these newer "remixed" songs shouldn't be included in the list as I view it as a form of "sampling", even though technically the material recorded by Aaliyah has never been officially released. Regarding the leaked songs, some were extremely difficult to find sources for as the singer's uncle, Barry Hankerson, has really put a lock down on her recordings, released or unreleased. However, I think I've found reliable sources for all the leaked songs that were already on the list prior to me getting a hold of it. I thank the both of you for your advice and will apply your feedback to the list. (Removing the "remixed" songs actually makes everything a bit easier since it can get confusing.) Thank you! — Miss Sarita 15:39, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Song reassessment[edit]

I'd like to request an assessment for the song "Gimme Chocolate!!" and a reassessment for the "Ijime, Dame, Zettai" and "Road of Resistance", having been last assessed four and three years ago, respectively. awu1996 05:51, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Chart or Commercial performance[edit]

I'm not sure I'm posting this in the right place. But I have come across several articles on Wikipedia which are GA's and FA's, some of them I edited/reviewed or nominated that show these slight difference. I would like to know if one of the aforementioned usages is more correct than the other and if so why OR is exactly the same thing?

Thank you. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 20:49, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

I had always thought that “Charts” would contain the chart themselves, while the “commercial performance” seemed to consist of prose covering similar content, but also things not covetable by charts alone. (ie The song was on the chart for six weeks, sold x amount, was a musicians fifth song to top the chart, or that a song dethroned another big song from a chart, etc etc.) This is just based around observations though, I could be wrong. Sergecross73 msg me 20:55, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for your quick response. That seems the most logical way for me as well. MarioSoulTruthFan (talk) 13:11, 8 September 2018 (UTC)