Wikipedia talk:WikiProject South Africa/Archive 1

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Naming convention for African cities

I have proposed a naming convention for African cities at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (city names)#Convention for Africa. It basically restates current practice, but I would particularly appreciate any comments on the convention as it regards South Africa. Warofdreams 15:18, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 15:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 20:02, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Flag of South Africa FAR

Flag of South Africa has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:13, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Ministries or Departments?

On Wikipedia, the only designation for the member organizations of the South African Cabinet is "ministries", but the websites of these bureaus designate themselves as "departments". Should they be renamed accordingly? In fact, how long have they been known as "departments" rather than "ministries?" --Toussaint 14:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually the ministry is the office of the cabinet minister, whilst the department is the bureaucracy. Generally there is one ministry for each department. As far as I am aware there has been this distinct from before 1994. Interestingly there is also now a Department of Defense, in addition of the SA National Defence Force. Ozinsky 11:44, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


Anyone interested in reviving this WikiProject? My particular slant is South African history, but it seems a shame that SA coverage more generally is so neglected. Surely there must be a few South Africans, or people interested in South Africa, around?

Xdamrtalk 00:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I am very interested in being involved with this WikiProject! I have interest in both SA History and current SA coverage. I have done work on Desmond Tutu, Cape Town, Grahamstown, and Xhosa Wars among others and have created Ben Maclennan and Bill B. Burnett.--Lmcelhiney 17:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Bilateral relations discussion

I would like to invite you all to participate in a discussion at this thread regarding bilateral relations between two countries. All articles related to foreign relations between countries are now under the scope of WikiProject Foreign relations, a newly created project. We hope that the discussion will result in a more clean and organized way of explaining such relationships. Thank you. Ed ¿Cómo estás? 18:03, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


Hi, I am an Wikipedia newbie who loves the country I live in. I would like to join this project to help improve on all SA - based articles, but I don't feel that I would be of much use to you guys. Is it acceptable if I join anyway, and make any small improvements that I can? Or should I wait until I am more experienced (and less useless)? Please help, am quite nervous... Goldfritter 19:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

ANC & Soviets

Someone from this project may want to look in on Talk:African National Congress#The role of Soviet funding. - Jmabel | Talk 01:02, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Famous (?) South African frisbee player

An AFD is currently active at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Drew Cameron. Participation from members of this project would be extremely welcome. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

New additions related to the international opposition to apartheid

I created a new article Disinvestment from South Africa, and made significant changes (I hope improvements) to Anti-Apartheid Movement and Sullivan Principles. Also, and maybe more significant, I created a template to tie together all the articles dealing with the international opposition to apartheid. It's on the right. I think it will be useful because it lets individuals learning about the topic from wikipedia easily navigate the various articles on the topic, and it also lets experts quickly identify any major omissions in our coverage. I still need to add a section for the major activists/people to the template. --CGM1980 06:23, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Johannesburg FAR

Johannesburg has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Epbr123 18:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

2007 Super 14 Final

I have just created this. Considering it was the first all South African final, first one hosted in South Africa, and first to be won by a South African team I thought I'd post here. Any help expanding and improving it would be appreciated. - Shudde talk 03:22, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


Hi. Could I ask some of you to take a look at an AfD for Systemshock, an online community site and forum in South Africa please. Thanks. --Malcolmxl5 07:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Featured article review of Schabir Shaik trial

Schabir Shaik trial has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. — Black Falcon (Talk) 05:46, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

GA announcement

Frederick Russell Burnham obtained GA status today. Hurray!!! The GA reviewer commented that it is already a very good article and, for FA, he suggests suggest more on Burnham's non-military work. Many thanks for everyone's contributions to-date. It sounds like we can bring it to FA with only a bit more work. Further input and peer review here would be much appreciated. Let's give the team a big hurrah!!! -- Ctatkinson 19:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Party in Cape Town

Just wanted to make sure people here know about this:

I will be there, would love to have a good turnout of South African Wikipedians! Please spread the word!--Jimbo Wales 13:09, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Mzoli's Meats

If anyone has information about Mzoli's Meats in Cape Town, it would be great if you could stop by the AFD discussion. Thanks! Zagalejo^^^ 20:08, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

FAC Announcement

  • Frederick Russell Burnham - Submitted to featured article review on Sept 22, 2007. We've worked hard over the last few months on this South Africa related article and now we've submitted it as a FAC. Please vote and comment, we need your support! -- Ctatkinson 18:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Stub Announcement

Daniel Theron (1871 - 1901) - Boer Captain, scout, and freedom fighter —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ctatkinson (talkcontribs) 12:44, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Johannesburg suburbs


I found some suburbs in Region 3 (Johannesburg) on the notability backlog for January. Actually I noticed that a number of stub articles (more than 100) have been created on suburbs in this region, and maye also in other regions. Many of these articles are very short, have ever been unexpanded, and may actually never be expanded. They just state "this is a suburb in region 3". While towns are in generally notable, this does not seem to be a reasonable way of presenting information - as long as there's nothing particular to write about these suburbs, they would probably be better described as a list or as short sections in the article about the region. I went ahead and redirected those on the notability backlog, such as Rouxville, Gauteng, to Region 3 (Johannesburg). But I think a general cleanup of the article would be required. --B. Wolterding 12:10, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

DKY Announcement

Danie Theron is on the Wikipedia main page today in Did You Know?? -- Ctatkinson 19:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia Academy

Is everyone here aware of Wikipedia Academy in Johannesburg, South Africa this Saturday? Can you help me make sure that all the good local Wikipedians there are notified and invited to come assist with the event? --Jimbo Wales 08:58, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Academy. --LA2 (talk) 00:58, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


History of Cape Colony from 1806 to 1870 has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Cheers, Spawn Man (talk) 03:10, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Danroodt's new page

Could someone please review this editor's contributions? The new page at Transformation (South Africa) doesn't feel right to me -- but I really don't know enough to have an opinion, and am only aware of it because it's provocative first sentence turned up on the disambiguation page at Transformation. Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

South Africa at FAR

South Africa has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --Victor12 (talk) 01:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Image:Nelson Mandela Being Sworn In.jpg

This image was contributed by a now inactive user, but if anyone here could find a way to make it compliant, it really seems to be critical to South African history. MBisanz talk 20:06, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Article assistance requested

Hi. An editor has brought concerns about the article Obed Mlaba (mayor of eThekwini) to the biographies of living persons noticeboard at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Obed_Mlaba, as it contains significant negative information with questionable sourcing. I have removed some unsourced controversial material as required by WP:BLP, but I was hoping to get some assistance in reviewing and/or developing the article from editors familiar with the subject and with the sources that might be available. If you are able to help out, it would be appreciated. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 23:05, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Proposed merger with Wikipedia:WikiProject South African municipalities

Given that the above named project is tagged as inactive, and that it scope falls entirely within the scope of this project, I propose that the two projects merge, and myself support such a merger. Thoughts? John Carter (talk) 17:09, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

  • This was proposed back in May on the the other project and there was no discussion. My thought is that at least on that end WP:SILENCE. Let's make it into a task force post haste.--Doug.(talk contribs) 05:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Infobox Templates for Deletion

This MFD: Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2008_January_20#Template:Free_State_infobox suggests a problem with infoboxes. They are set up as separate templates for each province and transcluded on the article pages. Most projects have a single blank infobox which gets transcluded and all the parameters then filled in, the same way the subproject Wikipedia:WikiProject South African municipalities does with {{Zamuni}}. These will all get TfD'd with the probable result that they'll all be subst - which means that they will be much harder to update - we'll have to change each one. We need a new infobox for provinces that can be used for this. Probably one of the existing ones would be a good model.--Doug.(talk contribs) 04:42, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Bot request suggestion

We may want to ask for a bot to run a tagging operation on all talk pages (including non-existent ones) associated with articles in Category:Metropolitan Municipalities of South Africa. Thoughts? Anyone want to construct the request?--Doug.(talk contribs) 21:55, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


As many of you might have noticed, the old {{WikiProject South Africa}} template did not engage in assessments. On that basis, assessment parameters have been added for South Africa to the {{AfricaProject}}. The assessments statistics shown on that page are from the articles which have had the AfricaProject template placed on them and which have been "tagged" for South Africa. I and various bots will be replacing the older WikiProject South Africa banner with the newer AfricaProject banner, with assessments, in the near future. Thank you for your patience. John Carter (talk) 21:34, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Coat of arms image requires copyright status

I have noticed that the Coat of arms of South Africa image requires copyright status. Please note that the expiry date is 10 February 2008. I would appreciate if someone is able to add the information. Regards, G.A.S 05:13, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Split and merge on South Africa under apartheid

I've proposed to remove some content from the (very long) South Africa under apartheid, but given its importance and sensitivity I'd love to have consensus on the changes first. Please see Talk:South Africa under apartheid and contribute if you have an opinion either way. 9Nak (talk) 21:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Township music

Township music is missing. Why, is it not a notable genre? --Ezeu (talk) 04:29, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to consolidate African country WikiProject banners

Template:AfricaProject was recently modified, and now contains individual parameters for all countries in Africa (see usage notes). Since project-specific assessment for all African countries can now be accomplished through the template, a proposal has been made at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Africa to consolidate all individual African country WikiProject banners.

Comments or suggestions would be most welcome. Thank you, Black Falcon (Talk) 23:28, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Oscar Pistorius: Free image

Hi, does anyone have a free photograph of Oscar Pistorius that can be used in the article on him, or is anyone able to try and obtain one? — Cheers, JackLee talk 00:33, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Draft Guidelines for Lists of companies by country - Feedback Requested

Within WikiProject Companies I am trying to establish guidelines for all Lists of companies by country, the implementation of which would hopefully ensure a minimum quality standard and level of consistency across all of these related but currently disparate articles. The ultimate goal is the improvement of these articles to Featured List status. As a WikiProject that currently has one of these lists within your scope, I would really appreciate your feedback! You can find the draft guidelines here. Thanks for your help as we look to build consensus and improve Wikipedia! - Richc80 (talk) 14:06, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Constitution of South Africa Chapter 2: Bill of Rights

Hi All, I have added some stuff to this article, mainly the full list of rights contained in the South African Bill of Rights. It would be great if someone could have a look and contribute/edit. I have tried to add some context and links to some of the rights, but there is still work to be done. The South African Bill of Rights is an important document, not only for SA, but also as a human rights instrument, hence I think it would be great if we could improve and extend the article. --SasiSasi (talk) 11:43, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

South African Scout Association GA Sweeps Review: On Hold

As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria and I'm specifically going over all of the "Culture and Society" articles. I have reviewed South African Scout Association and believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I have left this message at this WikiProject's talk page so that any interested members can assist in helping the article keep its GA status. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. I have left messages on the talk pages of the main contributors of the article and another WikiProject. Please consider helping address the several points that I listed on the talk page of the article, which shouldn't take too long to fix if multiple editors assist in the workload. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 00:36, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme

As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.

  • The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
  • The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
  • A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot (Disable) 20:51, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Crossingpoint marked for speedy deletion

The article about the South African band Crossingpoint has been marked for speedy deletion. I cannot judge their notability, but maybe someone from this project can and would like to edit the article accordingly. Regards, BNutzer (talk) 20:56, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup

Currently, 320 articles are assigned to this project, of which 84, or 26.2%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 14 July 2008.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. More than 150 projects and work groups have already subscribed, and adding a subscription for yours is easy - just place the following template on your project page:

{{User:WolterBot/Cleanup listing subscription|banner=WikiProject South Africa}}

If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page; I'm not watching this page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 17:35, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Help - Howzit/Howzat

I'd be grateful if some of you would lend much-needed expertise at Talk:Howzat_(greeting). Is it "Howzit!" or "Howzat!" that you guys say when you see each other? --Dweller (talk) 16:27, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika

Does anyone know of a public domain or free-licenced recording of this? I'm trying to find some public domain or free-licenced African music, to help counter systemic bias.

Did you know that, as far as I can tell, Wikipedia has *no* recordings of African music, with the exception of a couple files of dubious licencing status. As... well... pretty much the director of Featured sounds, this upsets me a lot. I don't like systemic bias, and really want to fix it. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 02:31, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Should be able to use the version from here. Terms and conditions state:
  1. Usage and copyright
    1. Users may view, copy, download to a local drive, print and distribute the content of this website, or any part thereof only for non-commercial informational or reference purposes.
--NJR_ZA (talk) 06:10, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia can't accept non-commercial-only works, sadly =/. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 06:11, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

date formats

No South Africans at WP:MOSNUM or WP:MOS, it appear. This is a great pity, because as one of the seven countries with large numbers of native anglophones, you're having no say in the debate on the choice of date formats. This debate is occurring about five years too late, since our readers have been viewing raw date formats since the year dot. It has been brought into focus by the recent deprecation of date autoformatting.

I wonder whether you can urgently provide answers to the following questions:

  1. What date format is currently used in South Africa? dmy (11 October 1989), mdy (October 11 1989), or both?
  2. Is usage different for native anglophones compared with others?
  3. Do WP articles with strong ties to South Africa use one or other, or either? Tony (talk) 09:53, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for South Africa

Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Wikipedia:Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 22:41, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

African cinema task force

An African cinema task force has been proposed at WikiProject Films, which would include the cinema of South Africa. Interested editors are encouraged to sign up - if there is enough interest, then the task force will be created! Many thanks, Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 03:55, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

South Africa articles missing geographic coordinates

Many articles about places in South Africa are missing geographic coordinates; you can find an up-to-date list of them in the category Category:South Africa articles missing geocoordinate data. As of the time of writing, there are 597 articles listed in this category.

By providing these articles with geographic coordinates, you can help other editors locate them on maps and in geographic information systems, and help readers find the articles more easily when using geographically-aware search systems such as Google Maps or location-aware GPS phone browsers.

These articles are currently marked with {{coord missing}} templates, which need replacing with filled in {{coord}} templates containing their latitude/longitude data. You can find out how to do this at the Wikipedia:Geocoding how-to for WikiProject members. -- The Anome (talk) 14:39, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Graeme Pollock

This WikiProject seems very quiet, but on the off-chance someone's reading, I wanted to let you know that the Cricket WikiProject noticed that no S. African player had made the initial cut for the 0.7 DVD mentioned above.

We've therefore set about speedily improving Graeme Pollock.

You're welcome to help us. --Dweller (talk) 20:39, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Map of the English-speaking world

Hello, there is disagreement on the talk page of a map at Wikimedia Commons: [1]. It concerns the status of South Africa as a member of the English-speaking world.

This map is used in a number of places on the English Wikipedia. Essentially, countries are divided into two groups: dark blue and light blue. The dark blue countries are currently the US, the UK, Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Guyana and Belize.

Previously, dark blue countries were those with "significant concentrations of native-speakers," and South Africa was included. Now the description is something broader about the language being official, and yet, paradoxically, South Africa has been removed. Probably an accurate description of the countries now in dark blue would be those that have a majority of native speakers of English.

South Africa is the only country with a large number of native speakers that is not in dark blue.

I am asking for comment on that page concerning what the appropriate criteria would be to distinguish dark/light blue, and whether South Africa should be in dark blue. (talk) 01:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Patricia de Lille

Can someone with a better knowledge of South African politics than myself please have a look at this article? She seems to be highly notable but it's not entirely clear why, and 2/3 of the article relates to criticism of or allegations against her. Obviously presents a BLP policy problem - if I knew where to look for resources (and had the time) I would try and fix it myself, but my area of expertise is Australian politics and I fear I would stuff something up :) Thanks. Orderinchaos 00:30, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Spirit of Mystery

Spirit of Mystery is currently well on the way to Cape Town, recreating the voyage of Mystery. Are there any Wikipedians in Cape Town who would be able to get a photograph of Spirit of Mystery when she arrives so that we can have a picture in the article. I'm not sure whether these two articles should be tagged with the South Africa Wikiproject, so will leave that up to you to decide. Mjroots (talk) 14:30, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

It looks like Spirit of Mystery is due to arrive at Cape Town very soon, maybe as early as Christmas Day. Current position. Mjroots (talk) 15:39, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Join WikiProject South Africa

Hi everyone. How can I join the WikiProject South Africa? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slapsnot (talkcontribs) 12:41, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
I'd also like to know how to join the project. I expected that to be obvious but it's not. Colinvlr (talk) 08:40, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

it is simple, just add your name to the Participants section on the Project page and you are a member! :) Mjroots (talk) 19:20, 28 December 2008 (UTC)


The PUTCO article has been listed under Stubs Needing Work. Ive completed the article, can someone just take a look and tell me whats shorting? Ive added alot of information, I think it can now be rated as a B-Class.Slapsnot (talk) 08:39, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Liliesleaf Farm

Article now moved to main pages Colinvlr (talk) 20:40, 8 January 2009 (UTC)


I've added a note to the General Stephanus Schoeman bio talk page, and am looking for information about which Schoeman the township of Schoemansville (now Hartbeespoort) got its name from. Colinvlr (talk) 20:44, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Request for help

Hello there South Africans, I have just finished developing and expanding List of Second Boer War Victoria Cross recipients, but there are a lot of redlink places in the "Location" column. Could anyone with any free time please look at these and see if they already have articles, but need redirected to the current name, or possibly create stubs for them. I have created quite a few stubs and redirects, but I am looking for some assistance regarding the names. Thanks, regards, Woody (talk) 23:00, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Some of the places on that list might not go by the same name anymore, so they might be difficult to track down. Others might just be a pasture on some farm and not warrant a wikipedia article of it's own. SAGNS for example lists Naauwpoort as Group of huts in North West Province --NJR_ZA (talk) 18:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)


Hello, I was trying to deorphan Bapsfontein but after a bit of googling still can't quite work out a few things. Hopefully someone here can help. Although it didn't look like it on the map I found, is it in Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Municipality? Also, is it a town in its own right or a suburb of Kempton Park? I couldn't work it out. Although still a stub, do you think it is worth an article in its own right, or should I merge it somewhere? Thank you, sassf (talk) 13:09, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah, place names in South Africa can be fun, not. For Bapsfontein we have:
From the above it seems that we can safely assume that Bapsfontein is still officially a Town in it's own tight located within the Ekurhuleni Metro.
It's really not much more than a collection of smallholdings and informal settlements in the north east of Ekurhuleni, the lease developed and lowest population density region of the Metro.
I have added coords to the Bapsfontein article.
--NJR_ZA (talk) 16:57, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for that - now I have some idea where to start linking it in to other articles. Its got some peculiar little 'facts' in it, so hopefully if its connected up more someone who knows something about it will spot it and clean it up a bit. As you saw, there is not much about it online, so I can't do much to fix it myself. sassf (talk) 14:11, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

South African Music & Albums

  • I have started adding pages on South African Music Albums but am finding them nominated for speedy deletion due to lack of notability. An example is Johannes Kerkorrel's Cyanide in the Beefcake which I regard as notable. Non-South African users however do not share my opinion. How does one make a case to keep such pages from being deleted? (It has honestly put me off from adding anything else.) Gidzz —Preceding undated comment was added at 14:31, 9 February 2009 (UTC).

Coordinators' working group

Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. — Delievered by §hepBot (Disable) on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 06:36, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

mormon temple in Johannesburg

There is a Mormon temple in Johannesburg. Should the article belong to this WikiProject? LDS-SPA1000 (talk) 20:03, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Proposal for a 200-WikiProject contest

A proposal has been posted for a contest between all 200 country WikiProjects. We're looking for judges, coordinators, ideas, and feedback.

The Transhumanist 00:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

List of South African politicians

List of South African politicians has been prodded for deletion. (talk) 05:41, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

South Africa's roads, etc.

We actually have an IM of our own, it's pretty interesting, if you don't mind finding an IM interesting. Lol. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 09:36, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


Hi, if anyone knows about the research/publication management system in SA, or is interested in journals published in South Africa, pop over to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Academic_Journals#Two_South_African_journal_lists. Cheers, John Vandenberg (chat) 08:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Jo'burg image request: South African Airways HQ

Would someone in the Johannesburg area like to photograph the South African Airways headquarters? WhisperToMe (talk) 04:20, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


I have nominated Suburbs_of_Johannesburg for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. YellowMonkey (cricket calendar poll!) paid editing=POV 14:17, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

"Affiliation" to WikiProject South Africa

I noticed that an editor / administrator added a particular article to the WikiProject Africa by adding the appropriate "class" banner to the article talk page. (a.) Does the WikiProject South Africa have a similar class banner? (b.) when may an article be "affiliated" in this manner to this WikiProject South Africa? and lastly (c.) Who decides if an article is appropriate for such affiliation? Farawayman (talk) 14:05, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by the above, but here goes. The presence of the banner is basically to indicate that the article is somehow relative to that project, and give the project some idea of the comparative quality and importance, to that project, of the article. The article will then appear on the project's assessment table, and, in this case on the "article alerts" section of the project's page in the event that it get nominated for review, GA or FA status, or whatever. Basically, it generally makes sense, if the article is directly relevant to South Africa, like being directly and obviously related to its geography, history, people, etc., then it would make sense to add the project banner to the talk page. Generally, I think this is best done by using the {{WikiProject Africa}} banner, which also assesses for the parent project and makes it possible for that project to receive notices as well. If this doesn't answer your question, maybe you could offer a few more specifics of which articles you think may or may not be relevant to this project. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 14:16, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
You can use the Africa banner with South Africa = Yes as in this example:
{{AfricaProject|class=|importance=|South Africa=yes}}
See Talk:Kimberley,_Northern_Cape as an example
--NJR_ZA (talk) 14:21, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks; Understood. The reason I was asking is because the article has relevance to South Africa (actually South Africa military history), but not really to Africa in general, as it is so specific! So I guess using {{AfricaProject|class=|importance=|South Africa=yes}} would be more appropriate. And lastly, who elects to add that banner? (a.) The original creater / writer of the article, or (b.) By consensus amongst the WikiProject South Africa members or (c.) some other party? Farawayman (talk) 15:08, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
In cases like that, the Africa banner is still used in almost all cases for all articles related to any African country, and provides a link to this project and assessment to both projects. It could also, presumably, be used for any other African countries which are directly relevant to a given article. Regarding your question, pretty much anyone can place a banner on any talk page, and do assessments as well, although if you aren't yourself sure of the assessment grade it might be best to leave it blank or ask someone else to assess it. John Carter (talk) 15:17, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
Clear! Thanks. Farawayman (talk) 15:33, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
If it is military history related, consider also adding the Military history WikiProject banner to the talk page. See Talk:Siege of Kimberley as example --NJR_ZA (talk) 15:39, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

African National Congress

This article is listed at cleanup. I looked it over but because it is a major topic I think it needs attention from someone far better informed than I. Manning (talk) 05:39, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Battle of Delville Wood

I have just completed this article— but it has not been rated in terms of importance for South African articles. I would appreciate a review on this. Farawayman (talk) 19:28, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

You do know that any member of a project has the right to do either quality or importance assessments, I hope. My own opinion would be that it is either "Mid" or maybe "High", because of the number of fatalities. Considering it was on foreign soil, and that the only people lost were soldiers, despite the number of such losses, my own personal, less than really well informed opinion, would be "Mid". However, if the battle plays a very significant role in the way history is presented in South Africa, it could probably get "High". Anyway, those would be my guesses, based on a less than wonderful knowledge of South African history. John Carter (talk) 19:45, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

A very weird request indeed

For the Blacks: I'm looking for racial slurs that you use to call us Whites (you know, on a par with Kaffir). Thanks, ChrisDHDR 19:12, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Photo request: South African Airways head office

If anyone minds, would someone please photograph the South African Airways head office at Airways Park, OR Tambo Airport, Kempton Park, Ekurhuleni? What about the head office of Comair Limited in Bonaero Park, Kempton Park? Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 23:18, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

The Parlotones

The article is a mess - please help to fix it. Roger (talk) 15:50, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Mzoli's is one of the most important South Africa articles?

Okay, because Wales ate there a bunch of editors brought it up to Good Article. But why are we labeling this restaurant as of "High Importance" to the South African country, yet Winnie_Madikizela-Mandela is only "Mid-importance"? We could find more absurd examples than Winnie to show that a restaurant shouldn't be in the "High Importance" category. I've switched it to low, but for some reason I'm reverted because this is controversial? With South Africa's history, music, art, culture and influence - an encyclopedia is calling this restaurant of the most import to the nation? --Ponyboybreakaway (talk) 02:54, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm busy adding a lot of South African pages to WP:South Africa and cleaning up their talk pages with talkheader and wikiprojectbanners. Somewhere along the line i am bound to make a mistake like this one (obviously I copy and paste rather than type out {{AfricaProject ....}}). Mzoli's should not have been tagged as high, that was my error. I agree that it should be low and support you changing it. --NJR_ZA (talk) 04:14, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Yes, definitely a low. I fear this maybe another case of Jimbo-worshiping. ChrisDHDR 14:53, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
It does make sense to have at least one article from each of the major subject areas given a "High"". If this is the most important restaurant in South Africa, then, maybe, it could be argued to deserve that degree of recognition. Maybe. I don't know enough about the country to say anything one way or another about that, other than, if it isn't the most important restaurant in the country, a "Low" would probably make much more sense. John Carter (talk) 15:31, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
Makes sense, but it won't be Mzoli's, there are many more that have been around a lot longer and are far better known eg. Le Quartier Francais in Franschhoek or Wandie's in Soweto. --NJR_ZA (talk) 15:48, 14 November 2009 (UTC)


I have created user invite and user welcome templates for the WikiProject. See Wikipedia:WikiProject_South_Africa#Templates for details. Would appreciate it if someone could check if they look OK, content is appropriate for the WikiProject and that all the links work as expected. --NJR_ZA (talk) 16:26, 14 November 2009 (UTC)


Preferred template name: AfricaProject

Location of category list: Wikipedia:WikiProject South Africa/Categories

Tag non-articles? images/files [ ] templates [ ] categories [ X ] portals [ ]

Auto-stub? (Y/N): Y

Inherit classes? (Y/N): Y

If yes: stub [ X ] start [ X ] list [ X ] C [ X ] B [ X ] GA [ ] FA [ ] FL [ ]

Use default logic? (Y/other instructions): Y

Additional notes:

  1. WP:SAFRICA uses the Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa template {{AfricaProject}}
  2. South Africa=Yes should be set to tag South Africa task force for this run
  3. parea=Yes should be set to tag African protected areas task force for this run
  4. Should an article talk page already contain {{AfricaProject}} and it is tagged with another task force, such as Namibia=Yes, then those task forces should be preserved
  5. If possible, also add South Africa-importance= with a blank value. It makes it easier for humans to update the template in future.

Thanks --MiszaBot II (talk) 08:13, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

If there are no objections I will submit the request in 7 days. Should you have any objections, please raise them here. --NJR_ZA (talk) 20:15, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox Hillcrest

Nuvola apps important.svgTemplate:Infobox Hillcrest has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NJR ZA (talkcontribs) 17:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Tagging Dams in South Africa with AfricaProject banner

I have submitted a request to Xenobot Mk V to tag all articles in Category:Dams in South Africa with {{AfricaProject|importance= |class= |attention= |South Africa=Yes|South Africa-importance=}}. A handful of articles is expected to be tagged incorrecty. I will undo these manually. --NJR_ZA (talk) 06:17, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Now what can we do...

I made this ({{Territorial evolution South Africa}}) in trying to understand the maze of territories at {{SouthAfrica state}}. It would be a pity to just leave it there to rot, so where could we put it? ChrisDHDR 14:18, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement

This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:56, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Tagging Rivers in South Africa with AfricaProject and Rivers banner

I have submitted a request to Xenobot Mk V to tag all articles in Category:Rivers of South Africa with {{AfricaProject|importance= |class= |attention= |South Africa=Yes|South Africa-importance=}} and {{Rivers}}. --NJR_ZA (talk) 10:09, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Announcement: Discussing the creation of Wikimedia South Africa

If you are interested in the formation of a Wikimedia chapter for South Africa, please join the discussion at meta:Wikimedia South Africa. If you speak another South African language, please translate this message and pass it on to that language's Wikipedia. Thanks, htonl (talk) 16:01, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Olympia Park/Olympia Stadium

I noticed that there are articles called Olympia Park and Olympia Stadium Rustenburg. As far as I know Olympia Park is in Rustenburg, and these 2 stadiums seem to have a similar capacity. Are these 2 different stadiums, or are there 2 articles about the same stadium? Crazydude22 (talk) 15:22, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

I think for your second link you mean Olympia Stadium (Rustenburg). Judging by the geographic coordinates in those articles they are in fact about the same stadium. I've merged them into one article. - htonl (talk) 16:26, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks man, and sorry about the broken link. Crazydude22 (talk) 19:33, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Proposal: Government, politics and law task force

I'm proposing the above-titled task force. I've been working on these topics and I've noticed a few others doing the same. So I thought it might be useful to have a task force to coordinate efforts. Thoughts? - htonl (talk) 01:14, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

You can try, but looking at the participation level in the greater WP:SAFRICA, I doubt you will find enough members for the task force to be really effective. --NJR_ZA (talk) 09:44, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
I'd be more than willing to help out on the law side, and have actually started writing articles on my page, which I'll transfer to the relevant sections when they're done. Currently I'm working on South African law of succession here. I've also been looking over the Law of South Africa article, which I'll be adding to and altering as time permits. Rechtstaat (talk) 12:59, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Great! South African law is a field that really needs a lot of work on Wikipedia. - htonl (talk) 16:47, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

GWK Park in Kimberley

Sorry if I'm becoming an irritation, but I have a question about the stadium in Kimberley. It is currently listed as ABSA Park, but I am quite sure that under the current sponsership it is called GWK Park. Does this stadium have a 'proper', non-sponsered named, that it can be moved to, or should it be moved to GWK Park. Thanks Crazydude22 (talk) 06:25, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Its "non-sponsored" name is "Hoffe Park Stadium" after the suburb. Roger (talk) 14:20, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks I would like to move it to that name then. Crazydude22 (talk) 15:13, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
This link - [2] - will verify my claim. Roger (talk) 15:32, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
In order to rename the article, follow the instructions on WP:RM and add the following to Talk:ABSA Park

== Requested move ==
{{subst:move|Hoffe Park Stadium}} A short reason for page name change. —~~~~

I have recently done the same to rename Sahara Oval St George's to St George's Oval. As with this stadium, the article for St George's Oval was also incorrectly named for an expired sponsor. You can see the resulting discussions and eventual move on Talk:St George's Oval. If you tag Talk:ABSA Park I will support the move. --NJR_ZA (talk) 16:09, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Denel group of companies and related articles all need a major overhaul

The Denel article and all related articles about its divisions, subsidiaries and joint ventures, as well as articles about products made by the various entities in the group, all need to be brought into line with the current corporate structure. Practically all of them refer to now non-existent or renamed entities and practically all the "official site" refs are dead links. The following web pages will be useful in this process:
Denel Corporate Organigram
Denel Business Entities
Denel Associates and Joint Ventures
Please help. Roger (talk) 14:30, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Article for Deletion: Dan Roodt

The article Dan Roodt has been nominated for deletion. The article is in very bad shape, particularly it seems to be biased in favor of this controversial personality so it needs quite some help to avoid deletion. I'm informing you about this because I believe that Dan Roodt is indeed notable. Regards, PanchoS (talk) 17:02, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

The Afrikaans article af:Dan Roodt is much better. I'm quite sure some of its content could be used to "rehabilitate" this one - we just need good bilingual editors to do it. Roger (talk) 20:57, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Finger controversy

I was toying with the idea of starting an article about the recent 'finger' controversy involving Chumane Maxwele. A quick squiz at Google News will explain what I'm talking about.

Two problems, though. I'm not sure if it meets noteability requirements (although I think it does), and I'm also not certain what to call it. Any suggestions?

ManicParroT (talk) 02:43, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

It might meet notability requirements if it leads to other developments. Right now it is just an isolated event, which will be forgotten in a few weeks. In my humble opinion. pietopper (talk) 11:25, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Prod for Submarine (shark)

Not sure if it is worth saving, but if there are any sources out there they would most likely be local old South African new papers, if anyone is up for that job please give it a try, else I think the article will be deleted. --Stefan talk 07:43, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Shaya Ma Buru

Does anyone have a ref for a translation of "Shaya Ma Buru" (Kill the Boer). I think this song deserves an article of its own, but can not find any online reference to the lyrics, either in Xhosa or as an English translation. --NJR_ZA (talk) 16:46, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Article about the Transvaal

I have just added the article Transvaal to this wikiproject. The article is in a confused state. The main problem is that the hatnote and the Infobox say the article is about the Transvaal Colony which existed from the end of the Boer War (1902) until Union (1910). However most of the content of the article is about the South African Republic and the 1910 to 1994 province. There is no separate article at all about the province. I have therefor proposed a split into separate articles coverint the Transvaal Colony ans the Transvaal province. Note that the province's official name was the single word form "Transvaal" without the word "Province" as was the case with the Cape Province. Please help to clean up the confused state of the article. Roger (talk) 13:07, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

CfD notice - merging/renaming "Cities, towns and villages" categories

Sorry about the late notification. - htonl (talk) 13:02, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, I've withdrawn the nomination. - htonl (talk) 18:01, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Cape Town

Cape Town has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.

History of Cape Colony from 1870 to 1899 FAR

History of Cape Colony from 1870 to 1899 has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.

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This is a notice to let you know about Article alerts, a fully-automated subscription-based news delivery system designed to notify WikiProjects and Taskforces when articles are entering Articles for deletion, Requests for comment, Peer review and other workflows (full list). The reports are updated on a daily basis, and provide brief summaries of what happened, with relevant links to discussion or results when possible. A certain degree of customization is available; WikiProjects and Taskforces can choose which workflows to include, have individual reports generated for each workflow, have deletion discussion transcluded on the reports, and so on. An example of a customized report can be found here.

If you are already subscribed to Article Alerts, it is now easier to report bugs and request new features. We are also in the process of implementing a "news system", which would let projects know about ongoing discussions on a wikipedia-wide level, and other things of interest. The developers also note that some subscribing WikiProjects and Taskforces use the display=none parameter, but forget to give a link to their alert page. Your alert page should be located at "Wikipedia:PROJECT-OR-TASKFORCE-HOMEPAGE/Article alerts". Questions and feedback should be left at Wikipedia talk:Article alerts.

Message sent by User:Addbot to all active wiki projects per request, Comments on the message and bot are welcome here.

Thanks. — Headbomb {ταλκκοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:41, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

Auto tagging with project banner

I would like to use Xenobot Mk V to auto tag articles in the categories listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject South Africa/Categories with {{AfricaProject|importance= |class= |South Africa=Yes|South Africa-importance=|parea=Yes}}

Unreferenced living people articles bot

User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects provides a list, updated daily, of unreferenced living people articles (BLPs) related to your project. There has been a lot of discussion recently about deleting these unreferenced articles, so it is important that these articles are referenced.

The unreferenced articles related to your project can be found at >>>Wikipedia:WikiProject South Africa/Archive 1/Unreferenced BLPs<<<

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If you have any questions or concerns, visit User talk:DASHBot/Wikiprojects. Okip 23:29, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Association football/soccer in SA

I think CFD could be helped by some input from South African Wikipedians concerning how to appropriately refer to this sport in the South African context. The discussion is here. Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:20, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Article assessment

The summary table on the project front page does not show A-Class South-African articles, e.g. Siege of Kimberley Socrates2008 (Talk) 11:33, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

It does show it now, sometimes it takes a while to update --NJR_ZA (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:27, 19 May 2010 (UTC).

Richard Goldstone - request for review

I have recently revised Richard Goldstone to provide more material on his career in South Africa and resolve some biographies of living persons problems. It would be very helpful if knowledgeable South African Wikipedians could review Richard Goldstone#South Africa and provide some feedback. -- ChrisO (talk) 11:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Photograph request

Hi again! The South African Airways head office at 1 Jones Road, Kempton Park, Gauteng needs to be photographed for the article. Here is a Google Maps view of the building. If anyone would like to, please complete the photo request. Thanks! WhisperToMe (talk) 04:19, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

South African English for 2010 FIFA World Cup?

I'm trying to build a consensus that South African English would be the most appropriate variant to use for the article 2010 FIFA World Cup. But I don't want to mark the talk page with {{South African English}} because I don't know enough to assert that the article as it stands is in SAE. In any event, we haven't exactly reached consensus that the article should be in SAE yet, but I'm mentioning this discussion here in case anyone with an interest in South Africa wants to add their opinion on the matter. - Regards, PhilipR (talk) 22:29, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

South African Wikimedia Chapter

Greetings! Some of you may already know of the discussion that is underway to set up a local Wikimedia Chapter. There are currently over 25 chapters established around the world, but so far, none in Africa. Currently a group of local Wikipedians are in the process of setting up the South African chapter. If you're interested in being involved in the creation of a South African Wikimedia Chapter, please add your name to the meta page here: and also join the mailing list, details as follows: Also, email me directly if you would like to be involved in the kickoff Chapter workshop scheduled to be held at Wits University this coming weekend on 7th and 8th August. Thanks, Kaydee 68 (talk) 19:03, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Language question - (the?) North West

When referring to the province named "North West", do you think of it as "the North West" or just "North West"? At the moment the subcategories of Category:North West (South African province) are named without a "the" (for example Category:People from North West (South African province)) and I think that they shoud be renamed to include a "the". But before I officially request the move I'd like to find out what other South African Wikipedians feel. (Or if you can show me sources that strongly suggest one usage over the other, that would be even better!) - htonl (talk) 22:46, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I never use "the North West" like that to mean the province. "The North West" (Die Noordweste) is a completely different place - the area roughly from Brandvlei and Vanwyksvlei northwards to the Orange River. However I generally use "North West Province" - it's the only province name to which I normally append the word "province". Roger (talk) 23:34, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Media wise they refer to it as:
  • SABC - attacked at their home near Klerksdorp in North West today.
  • SABC - of service delivery protests in the North West.
  • SABC - The North West has joined four
  • SABC - North-West police say they have
  • and so forth, so SABC has mixed usage

  • News 24 doesn't use the, and refers to it as either simply North West or The North-West province.
  • The Sowetan saams mixed..

Bezuidenhout (talk) 08:12, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Personally I think of it as North-West, same way I think of Gauteng or Limpopo. The cardinal directions in the name are totally meaningless. It is not the most northernly province in South Africa, that would be Limpopo, neither is it the most westerly or north-westerly, that would be the Northern Cape. Speaking of the Northern Cape, I do think of that province as The Northern Cape as it is actually the northern portion of what used to be the Cape province. If someone refers to the North-West, South Africa my first thought is an area bordering on Namibia, while North-West, South Africa is generally assumed to be the province. --NJR_ZA (talk) 16:30, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

OK, so the media seems undecided but so far Wikipedians seem to not use a "the". So I'll not suggest a change to the categories then. Thanks. - htonl (talk) 19:48, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

List of power stations in South Africa

I believe this list is close to featured list quality. It conforms to most of the criteria and compares well with other featured lists. Assistance is requested to expand the prose under each section and find the couple of missing commission dates. --NJR_ZA (talk) 04:56, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

South African Military History Articles

Within the coming weeks I intend submitting the following South Africa related military history articles for A Class review. Any improvements or comments would be most welcome:

Thanks. Farawayman (talk) 08:49, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I've contributed a fair bit to the Magersfontein article, and would be willing to help take it forward. Socrates2008 (Talk) 10:15, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

South Africa articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the South Africa articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 23:38, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

NJR-ZA has proposed that we add South African Astronomical Observatory and Southern African Large Telescope. These articles are a bit borderline; do others here agree that these topics are important enough to be included? Thanks, Walkerma (talk) 03:11, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


I have changed the colour scheme and the intro on the South Afria Portal in order to better represent South Africa. Also updated the stale content with fresh material. Comments, criticism and feedback will be welcomed. --NJR_ZA (talk) 13:02, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Main Culture article is a mess!

Culture of South Africa is in a very poor state. It currently consists of a random collection of original research and personal opinion mixed in with various allegations and factoids. It doesn't have a single inline citation! The only positive thing I can say about it is that the article's structure is reasonably well organised (meaning it has the right section headings in roughly the right places). As an article that is claimed to be of "High importance" to this project - it is in a shocking state. I'm too busy with university exams right now to really give it the attention it needs so I'm appealing to this project's membership to please help get this article up to standard. Roger (talk) 10:53, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

You are right, that is a total unreferenced mess. Will look into it when time is available. --NJR_ZA (talk) 05:47, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject cleanup listing

I have created together with Smallman12q a toolserver tool that shows a weekly-updated list of cleanup categories for WikiProjects, that can be used as a replacement for WolterBot and this WikiProject is among those that are already included (because it is a member of Category:WolterBot cleanup listing subscriptions). See the tool's wiki page, this project's listing in one big table or by categories and the index of WikiProjects. Svick (talk) 21:28, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

African university degrees

The article Academic degree has a lot of information about University degrees in a wide variety of countries but has absolutely nothing about any African countries. See Talk:Academic degree#Africa?. Please help correct this ommission by at least adding some information about SA's system. Roger (talk) 17:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I can write about the system at UCT, but I don't know if it's the same at other SA universities. Particularly I think the Afrikaans universities may have some differences from the English ones in what degrees they offer. - htonl (talk) 14:35, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
I believe that the National Qualifications Framework system of the South African Qualifications Authority basically forces all SA universities into a fairly uniform equivalency. According to the Unisa course and module guides I have, a Bachelors degree is NQF Level 7, Honours is Level 8, Masters is 9 and a Doctorate is 10. I'm not sure where Higher or Graduate Diplomas fit in - a Bachelors is a pre-requisite and the course takes a year but as I understand it they are not fully equivalent to Honours.
Just BTW, matric is NQF Level 4 and 2-year College diplomas are Level 6. I think (but I'm not at all sure) that many "trades" qualifications such as plumbing, electrician, motor mechanics, hairdressing, etc are either Level 5 or 6. I recently did an ICDL (International Computer Drivers Licence) course at an FET College, it's rated at level 5. Roger (talk) 16:41, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

The Parlotones

The Parlotones needs drastic rewriting. It currently consists entirely of fancruft written in the most painfully unencyclopedic style. Who will help me save it? Roger (talk) 19:09, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Introductory photo for Germiston

Can anybody who's actually from the area (or South Africa, for that matter) take (or find in other ways) a decent picture for the article about Germiston? It's the seat of the fourth largest municipality in the country (Ekurhuleni / East Rand), but all we have in the Commons right now is this century-old vintage picture with a horse carriage in the foreground.--LK 02:34, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Photo request in Jo'burg - South African Airways HQ

Hello! I have a photo request for Airways Park, the South African Airways head office at OR Tambo Airport. I would like someone to photograph the building for Wikipedia.

It is at: 1 Jones Road, Airways Park, Johannesburg International Airport, Kempton Park, Gauteng, 1627

Here is a Google maps view of the complex. You do not need to enter the complex. Just photograph it from along the road, and you should catch any South African Airways logos on the side of the building.

WhisperToMe (talk) 22:57, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

This can be quite a tough one. There is not really any place to park next to that road close to the building and there are security fencing and other buildings in the way. I'll see what I can do when I pass along there again, but what you really need is someone with access to the premises to take a proper photo. --NJR_ZA (talk) 08:47, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
Alright - First, see what you could do. I would suggest carrying a point-and-shoot and having a friend driving. You can photograph the building while the friend is driving - as long as you get the SAA markings on the building, it should be good. WhisperToMe (talk) 01:26, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
No problem. I'll go do a wiki photo shoot this weekend and get what we can for this one and also some Germiston photos as requested by LK above --NJR_ZA (talk) 05:17, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
Sounds good to me :) WhisperToMe (talk) 18:18, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
Here you go. Not the best, but probably the best that can be done without access to the premises. Did not go to Germiston as it was starting to drizzle. --NJR_ZA (talk) 13:53, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much, NJR ZA! I've started to post one of the images across many Wikipedia articles. WhisperToMe (talk) 19:22, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
BTW, since you speak Afrikaans, would it be alright if you gave Afrikaans descriptions to the images? Also I posted the second image on the Afrikaans Wikipedia article version of South African Airways. WhisperToMe (talk) 19:42, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
No problem. Afrikaans translations done. When the constant rain we are experiencing at the moment subsides, I'll visit the SAA musuem and upload some more photos. --NJR_ZA (talk) 20:58, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much :) BTW, when the rain subsides, if you want you could try some of the photo possibilities at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_South_Africa#Additional_Jo.27burg_photo_requests WhisperToMe (talk) 20:59, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Pier Development at OR Tambo

I have another question - What is the "Pier Development" at OR Tambo? According to , that is where SA Express is based. WhisperToMe (talk) 21:21, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

The only pier I am aware of is the new international pier (also called north pier) extension to the airport, but it would be odd if SA Express is based here as SA Express flies domestic flights and the international pier is about as far away from the domestic terminals as one can get in the main airport building. Maps --NJR_ZA (talk) 22:03, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Hmmm.. the full address is "4th Floor Offices, West Wing, Pier Development, Johannesburg International Airport" - I'm going to check the maps to see where this is or what it's supposed to refer to... WhisperToMe (talk) 22:07, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Hmm... I still haven't figured out exactly what it is supposed to be or where it is... WhisperToMe (talk) 03:43, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Additional Jo'burg photo requests

Firstly, does anyone know a place where one can get a nice, defining shot of OR Tambo's terminal? I think the OR Tambo Airport article should have a good exterior shot of the terminal, but I don't know where the best vantage point would be. It would also be useful for Mango since that airline's head office is inside the Domestic Departure Terminal.

If anyone wants, I found some additional possibilities for photos around Jo'burg airport:

  • Comair Limited head office: Cnr Atlas Road and Marignane Drive Bonaero Park 1619 South Africa
  • Cnr. 1 Marignane Drive and Atlas Road Bonaero Park 1619 South Africa (may be in the same building as Comair Limited)
  • Airlink: No. 3 Greenstone Hill Office Park Emerald Boulevard Greenstone Hill Modderfontein - Map
  • Airports Company South Africa: 24 Johnson Road The Maples Office Park - Bedfordview Johannesburg
  • TAAG Angola offices: 3rd Riley Road, Bedfordview Office Park Building 11A/ Stand 10 Bedfordview

If you encounter a gate, and entry isn't allowed through it, see if you can photograph the gate and/or the sign around it (like with the Air Accidents Investigation Branch of the UK, the photo representing the building is File:AAIB roadsign.JPG)

1Time's office is at 16 QUALITY ROAD, ISANDO, KEMPTON PARK - The website says that at the time there is no signage is on the building, but it's implied that signage will come later. The section "contact numbers" on the flash file gives directions.

While Federal Air is based at Hangar 14 of OR Tambo, I have no idea on how the building is accessed.

Also the South African Civil Aviation Authority is based at:

  • Ikhaya Lokundiza Building 16 Treur Close Waterfall Park Bekker Street Midrand (Map)

If anyone is willing to take one, some, or all of these buildings, please let me know :) WhisperToMe (talk) 22:43, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

  • Best vantage point for the terminals at OR Tambo will probably be from the rooftop of one of the multi story carparks. Should also be able to get the Gautrain in the same shot.
  • Can't remember seeing any identifying signage on the building that the South African Civil Aviation Authority is housed in. It is just another nondescript building within an office park. Most probably the building is leased rather than the property of the Civil Aviation Authority. Will get a photo of this one, but don't expect much in the form of associated identity.
--NJR_ZA (talk) 06:57, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
  • Cool - I look forward to seeing the photos when they come! :)
  • As for the CAA building - I wonder if, in case there isn't a photo explicitly saying it's the CAA, that if the building number, the street address number, and/or the name of the overall complex is posted on the premises.
  • WhisperToMe (talk) 23:26, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


Greetings! 2011/02/13: Re article can't get to a "Discussion" / "Talk" page for this article. So I submit here: I greatly appreciate this page but will be grateful when the sources are added for the sections 1 and 2 (as in the "Contents" panel); I am writing on South African education and wish to quote some of this information.

I ask, is there some inconsistency? At one point we read "All subjects are written on one grade only and are no longer written on Higher or Standard Grade", but elsewhere on the page, "Subjects are taken at the Higher Grade or Standard Grade level with Higher Grade being etc" "Having at least four of the subjects passed on the Higher Grade, including passes in two official languages at the Higher Grade" and "Higher Grade passes at A – E are awarded 6 – 2 points and Standard Grade passes at A – C are awarded 4 – 2 points." Inschris (talk) 19:24, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Could use some help

There's a new editor on the article "Cape Coloureds" who keeps trying to remove any reference to the slaves brought to the Cape by the Dutch, and also has some rather weird ideas which he's expressed on the talk page. Roger and I have both reached three reverts of his deletion; it'd be useful to have some input from other South African editors. (I'm not claiming that the article as it was before this started was fine - there was, to my mind, an over-emphasis on the slave ancestry - but it's not improved by deleting huge chunks of it.) - htonl (talk) 17:33, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

That does tend to happen when articles are poorly referenced. I'll work through it over the next couple of days adding references and rewriting content that appears not to be NPOV. --NJR_ZA (talk) 10:54, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Is there/shouldn't there be some policy about allowing anymouse edits? Looks to me like this person is hardly ever even signed in while he's "editing". André Kritzinger 11:05, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Well, banning anonymous edits is one of the perennial proposals but it's been rejected each time someone brings it up. What's problematic is the flipping between logged-in edits and anonymous edits when it's clearly the same person. - htonl (talk) 11:11, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure but I think such behaviour is a form of Sockpuppeting. In any case I find the editor to be completely illogical in his/her reasoning. It's a real stretch to AGF when dealing with such a recalcitrant nutcase. Roger (talk) 14:45, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

I've started an article for Italtile in my sandbox

Please take a look at User:Dodger67/Sandbox/Italtile and feel free to participate. Roger (talk) 10:43, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Netball in South Africa

I'd really love some assistance improving Netball in South Africa with the idea of getting it to good article status. The article is properly cited for what is there. Beyond that, it appears to...