Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports Car Racing/Archive 2

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Group 4 (racing) and Group 5 (racing)

From my references, it seems that Sports Cars was originally a Group 4 (racing) class, this being the case from at least 1966 until 1969 and cars like the Ford GT40 and Porsche 917 were homologated into Group 4.

We know this from the FIA List of Previously Homologated Cars, that can be found at the FIA Historic Racing Regulations page, showing homologation of the Porsche 917 and Ferrari 512 into Group 4. Then some time around 1970(?), the Group 4 sports cars (production run of 25) were moved to Group 5 and the Group 4 becase "special grand touring cars (production 500)". So this means the Group 5 (racing) page needs some tidy up as there would appear to be three phases of Group 5 cars.

  • Phase 1: Group 5 Special touring cars (1966 or 1968?)[1]
  • Phase 2: Group 5 Sports cars - ex Group 4 - production run of 25 (1970 ish?)
  • Phase 3: Group 5 Silhouette GT cars - starting about 1972.

Does anyone have some better and more exact dates (and references) for these, so we can update the Group 5 page? --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 10:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

It seems a bit more complicated than I thought - looking at the various FIA appendix J from 69, 71, 75 and 76 (and other references), there seem to be at least 4 phases of Group 5 racing and it seems to go a bit like this (please correct me if I'm wrong):
  • 1966-1969: Group 5 Special touring cars
  • 1970-1971: Group 5 Sports cars - ex Group 4 - production run of 25
  • 1972-1975: Group 5 Sports cars (up to 3.0L) - seems to include sports and prototypes????
  • 1976-1982: Group 5 special production cars (Silhouette GT cars)
Can anyone suggest some other (non FIA site) references for this one? --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 11:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Club Racing

Shouldn't this project include club racing, like SCCA, PBOC, etc? It's not professional or televised or anything, but it IS sports car racing. The series list only seems to contain professional racing series. JDS2005 16:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

They can be covered, but there's just not a lot that can be written on them that there is on professional series. The list of covered series at the top isn't complete, people can add what they feel should be covered. The359 18:37, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Some of this is covered on the SCCA page, and while we could add these series (and club racing series in other countries), we have to be careful to fulfil the requirements of notability and avoid any sort of soapbox or self-promotion type of articles. If the subject meets the criterion of "a topic is notable if it has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, reliable published works, whose sources are independent of the subject itself", then it should be worth covering in Wikipedia. --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 09:02, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Changes in Templates

Hi, I'm currently making some changes over on the WikiProject Motorsport Assessment Page. Look in the statistics section. Only 240 articles have the template WikiProject Motorsport on it. I'm thererfore going to propose something (I think this has been discussed a while back). Can every single Motorsport article have the template on it's talk page. My reasoning for this is that some drivers have only the Formula One template on the article. However, surely (by the way, this goes for virtually all articles), they haven't got to Formula One someway. They haven't just been thrown into F1, I don't think any drivers done that. They've gone through other forms of Motorsport. Therefore, surely the Wikipedia Motorsport template is needed for every single Motorsport article?. I'm going to do a vote on this (on this page, plus the Motorsport project and all the child projects) so we can get a decision on this. By the way, don't bother voting on different projects, as only one of your votes will count! Davnel03 16:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Agree

  • Disagree

  • Leave Comments Here

New discusssion on Motorsport talk page. Davnel03 18:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Does this mean you are going to restore the votes and comments that have been removed from here, and move them to the other page? --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 21:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Clay Regazzoni

I'm trying to finish off the Clay Regazzoni article for a stab at GA, but can't find much in the way of references for his sports car appearances in the early 1970s. Can anyone either reference the relevant section or the article or advise on where I can find suitable online sources? Cheers. 4u1e 8 March 2007, 14:58

Question of copyright

I had been looking at the Ferrari 512 page and noticed what appears to be copyright infringement. In fact, I feel that most of the page needs to be removed or rewritten, I'd appreciate if people could take a look at the page, comment on the talk page and possibly help with the rewrite. --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 10:44, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

19xx in motor racing categories

I've recently created Category:1950 in motor racing - Category:1968 in motor racing. So, feel free to add any relevant articles or subcategories into these new categories. -- DH85868993 12:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


After covering pretty much every major international sports car series, I believe the time has finally come to properly go over the IMSA series. However I believe there is one major hurdle to overcome before we can actually cover it. What do we name it? The series had many names of the years, mainly due to sponsors, but what is the most common name for the series? Looking over results, here's a breakdown of the names:

  • 1971: IMSA GT Series
  • 1972-1978: Camel GT/Camel GT Challenge
  • 1979: Winston GT
  • 1980: IMSA GT Series
  • 1981-1993: Camel GT Championship
  • 1994-1997: Exxon World Sportscar Championship
  • 1998: Professional SportsCar Racing Championship

Should we go with IMSA GT? Camel GT? Something else? Suggestions welcome. The359 21:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, once this is established, everything regarding the series should be moved from International Motor Sports Association to the new series page, and IMSA should remain merely about the governing body, especially since it governs a multitude of series (GT, IMSA Supercar, IMSA Lights, GT3 Cup) The359 21:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually I would like to suggest IMSA GT considering the the series went through three different sponsorships, or two since Camel and Winston are by R.J Reynolds, including one by the oil company and the last one through a different name before it settled for ALMS, so what do you think? Willirennen 01:27, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Just to remind you all that, I have created a new article called IMSA GT, I am currently in the process of rewriting the IMSA page to allow for the other series IMSA hosts. Willirennen 23:34, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Good deal, this'll allow me to start doing individual season pages for IMSA during the summer. The359 23:39, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Although it is not necessarily sports car racing, could anybody shed some light about the two less major series, I have written it in, its the IMSA RS and Firehawk Series, I'm getting the impression that they are the same series, and what is the difference of the two

Le Mans race year shortcut template

Hi. Just a note to let you know about Template:24hLM. It is a shortcut template useful when writing driver and vehicle articles, to remove the need to laboriously write [[yyyy 24 Hours of Le Mans|yyyy]] every time you want to directly link to a particular Le Mans race. To use the template just type {{24hLM|yyyy}} and the link will appear as yyyy. Pyrope 19:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Useful, thanks. Now I just need to see if I'll actually remember to use it... The359 19:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Porsche motorsport article

Following discussion on the Porsche talk page, Porsche in motorsport has been created. Please consider whether any links to Porsche need to be changed to Porsche in motorsport. -- DH85868993 14:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Standard width for driver infoboxes

There are numerous driver articles which contain multiple infoboxes, for the different series the driver has competed in. One issue is that the various driver infoboxes are different widths, which means that the infoboxes don't always "stack" neatly - contrast Olivier Gendebien (all infoboxes the same width) with Julian Bailey (different width infoboxes). The current infobox widths are:

  • 25 em: F1 driver, A1GP driver, V8 Supercar driver, WRC driver
  • 24 em: Former F1 driver, Former Champ Car driver, Former F3 driver, Le Mans drivers
  • 22 em: BTCC driver, BTCC alumnus, DTM driver, Junior series driver, Pickup Truck driver, Infobox racing driver
  • 270px (which is very close to 24em): all the NASCAR driver infobox templates

I propose that we standardise the width of all driver infoboxes at 24em, to improve the visual appearance of articles containing multiple infoboxes. Please leave comments here. DH85868993 14:23, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Please note that this proposal doesn't immediately affect WP:SCR as the only currently relevant template (Template:Le Mans drivers) already conforms to DH's proposed formatting. However, future templates are also an issue, so please join in the debate. Pyrope 21:31, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Following broad support at WP:MOTOR, all motorsport people infoboxes have now been changed to a standard width of 24em. -- DH85868993 12:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


One thing it seems we all forgot when deciding on the image for the template (Template:WikiProject Sports Car Racing) was that images on templates must be free images (because a free alternative could be used, see WP:FU). Niether of the options presented were suitable. Please take a look over at Template talk:WikiProject Sports Car Racing to help decide on a new image for the template. I changed the image currently but that image doesn't have to stay, it's just a filler until we decide on a new one. James086Talk | Email 08:27, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Help identifying cars

I'm currently importing a load of freely licenced motorsport photos over from flickr, and came across these: [2] [3] [4] [5]. I'm looking for as much info on each of the cars as possible (Make, Model, Year, Events, Driver) to be able to properly describe and categorize it. Thanks, AlexJ 21:52, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

  • The first one is the XL Racing Ferrari 550 Maranello that ran in the GT class. Two were built by XL Racing for the FFSA GT Championship in 2002-2003. It also ran a few races in the ALMS in 2002 (Road American and Petit Le Mans at least). It also ran but failed to finish the 2003 24 Hours of Le Mans. It's not a Prodrive-built 550, but instead a production car modified by XL Racing.
  • The second car is a Racesport Salisbury TVR Tuscan T400R, their racing model in the GT class. The T400R debuted at the 2003 24 Hours of Le Mans, followed by the 2004 Le Mans Series season. The car in this paintjob and with that number (95) ran the 2005 Le Mans Series season as well as the 2005 24 Hours of Le Mans.
  • Third car is a Porsche 917K, the famous "psychedelic" paint scheme. Unfortunately I can't remember when it ran, or what it achieved.
  • I think it ought to be the 1970 Watkins Glen 6h race car of Gijs van Lennep and Gérard Larrousse, but it might just be wearing those colours as the race number is wrong. The car finished 9th. A 917LH with those colours came second in that year's Le Mans race as well. Pyrope 17:07, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
The number is wrong for Le Mans too, but numbers were easily swapped from race to race back then, I assume this car ran both Le Mans and Watkins Glen. The359 17:10, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
No, the LM car was langheck chassis 047, the Glen was kurtzheck chassis 021. It might be the number with which the car ran in the Glen CanAm race the day after the 6h, driven by van Lennep. I'm just surprised as, to the best of my knowlege, chassis 021 has always worn #35 in previous historic appearances. Pyrope 17:13, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Ah, I didn't notice the L vs K difference. But a quick check of results shows the Martini Racing 917K running #35 in the Can-Am race. Maybe it's a replica? The359 17:18, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Actually, it probably is the real car carrying a different number, here is a picture of the car running #115 at a vintage meet in 2002: [6] and here is the car running #31 for the 2004 Classic Endurance Racing series: [7] The359 17:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Nice find! That's solved that then, I can sleep tonight... Pyrope 17:28, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
and for a bit of useless trivia, Bobby Rahal used to own this car, he brought it so he could compete in the 2002 Le Mans Classic race. Also the 917 was in fact a last minute replacement for current owner, Juan Barazi who was supposed to have bought his Courage-AFR C65 to the event. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Willirennen (talkcontribs) 20:32, 6 May 2007 (UTC).
Hope this helps. The359 22:13, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Found info on the Porsche 917, it's a 917L that finished 2nd at the 1970 24 Hours of Le Mans, run by Martini Racing. The359 21:11, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks guys, just to let you know, the uploaded images are now available on the Wikimedia Commons. They can also be viewed here.AlexJ

I need more help! [8], a Lancia of some sort. Thanks, AlexJ 13:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
A Lancia LC1. I'm not sure of anything else beyond that, I don't know this car's history. The359 17:16, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
All I know is that it was the 1982 WSC championship winner, the 2006 FoS programme I have does not state what this chassis number is, all it says is that electrical problems put this car out after 14 hours. The car is owned by Luigi Macaluso who is the President of Girard-Perregaux as well as being a well known rally car collector. I have even looked it up on some various site amd it has no indication which chassis number the car is, all my indication about this is from the WSPR-Racing site, it could be chassis 001003, since the other car (001002) went out with engine failure. Willirennen 20:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Just a subtle hint, the picture would be wonderful for an LC1 article. The LC1 and LC2 are one of the biggest competitors of their time, they're both really deserving of an article. I'd write one if I actually knew much of anything about them. The359 00:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Picture of the Lancia now on my sandbox gallery. Thanks, AlexJ 16:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
If I remember correctly, amongst those photos from Goodwood there is a photo of one of the few Group 5 Lancia Stratos(es?), which would be a welcome addition to that article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The359 (talkcontribs) 16:33, 8 May 2007 (UTC).


I've been bold and moved all the sportscar templates from Category:WikiProject Sports Car Racing Templates and Category:Motor racing navigational boxes into new category Category:Sports Car Racing templates and subcategories Category:Sports Car Racing infoboxes and Category:Sports Car Racing navigational boxes. But I wasn't sure what to do about template:WikiProject Sports Car Racing and template:WP:SCR User - should they be in Category:Sports Car Racing templates and/or Category:WikiProject Sports Car Racing Templates and/or Category:WikiProject Sports Car Racing? And do we still need Category:WikiProject Sports Car Racing Templates (which is currently empty) at all? P.S. If people don't like the capitalisation of the new categories (which I based on "WikiProject Sports Car Racing"), I'm willing to change it. -- DH85868993 12:55, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Motorsport Library

I've made a suggestion at WikiProject Motorsport for a list of hardcopy references and who holds them, to help with referencing articles. This was prompted by the realisation that I have access to quite a lot of material which I'm not currently using. Please comment here. Cheers. 4u1e 16:44, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

1977 World Sportscar Championship

Looking at the 1977 World Sportscar Championship page, I feel it is very confusing to say that "The 1977 World Sportscar Championship season was the 25th FIA World Championship for Makes" when the 1977 World Sportscar Championship and the 1977 World Championship for Makes were two separate championship series. Personally I think they each deserve their own articles rather than sharing the same one.

I have the same thoughts re 1976 World Sportscar Championship

GTHO 11:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

1000km races

Maybe I'm the only one that has been bothered by this, but should the titles of the various 1000km races be altered? Races like the 24 Hours of Le Mans and 12 Hours of Sebring follow the form of (race distance) of (location). However all the 1000km races leave out the of. Should the articles all be renamed to 1000km of Suzuka or 1000km of Spa and the like? The359 16:41, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, the Spa 24 Hours is the only other race I think of that does not follow the (race distance) of (location) format. I believe that the race is currently refered to as that, but what are people's opinion on consistancy vs proper naming? The359 16:43, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe that we should be using the names that the organisers used in the actual race programs. Where not available, contemporary reports (eg in Automobile Year) are the best bet. By applying a set naming standard we are effectively trying to rewrite history.

The two volume book "Time and Two Seats" which covers all races in all major sports cars series from 1953 to 1998 is an excellent reference although the author has a thing about not including any relevant sponsor name in the race title.

GTHO 03:24, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

What is Norelco Drivers Cup

I want to ask what is Norelco Drivers Cup? Is that a driver's contingency thing and how is it awarded.Willirennen 03:50, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

2007 24 Hours of Le Mans

With Le Mans now two weeks away, I'd like to ask all the members of WikiProject: Sports Car Racing to offer their services to help improve mainly the 2007 24 Hours of Le Mans, but also other main Le Mans articles in any way possible. This could include:

  • Synopsis of Test Day, Practice/Qualifying, and the Race
  • Proper referencing
  • Pictures if possible
  • Etc...

I'd like to have, once the race is over, the winner listed in the "In The News" section of the Wikipedia Main Page to help increase exposure of the race and the project.

Plus, since is the crown event for us sports car fans, I'd love to hear some of your predictions for the race this year, just for fun. The359 07:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, on further research, 24 Hours of Le Mans itself needs some major work and expansion. It's in a sad state of affairs now, even after I fixed some things. The359 05:06, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Chart with the details of the different specs?

I think it would be interesting and easier to understand if there was a chart with max weight, typical power, etc of the different classes so people could quickly refer to it when they are trying to get the quick and dirty on the difference between GT2 and GT3 etc. AntoineWalker1066 14:51, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that there are no unified GT rules anymore. ACO's GT1 and GT2 differ from the FIA's GT1 and GT2 and also are likely to differ from various national series GT1 and GT2. Same will also apply to GT3. Was there a specific article in mind where you thought this could be helpful? The359 19:06, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't thinking "helpful" so much as interesting. Of course the specs change every year, but maybe even as part of the wikimotorsports project page, a chart stating whether a series was purpose built vs. production based, open or closed cockpit, open or closed wheel, etc. If someone is trying to figure out what a particular race car is based on an uncaptioned picture, they could refer to the chart for clues as to the series it was racing in. Might not be practical I guess but if it was I think there might be some value in it. Oops I thought I was logged in. This is Antoine still. 20:04, 14 June 2007 (UTC)AntoineWalker1066
There are plans on WP:MOTOR for a page on GT Racing, which I think could discuss the entire difference between production-based GT series and prototype series since the division between the two decades ago. After your initial question I thought out possibilities for what to write, hopefully something can appear soon. The359 20:07, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Misbehaving(?) template

I think template:WikiProject Sports Car Racing doesn't behave properly when nested. Consider Talk:Charles Pozzi: Notice how when you click on the word "Show" for all the other WikiProject banners, the word "Hide" appears exactly where the word "Show" used to be. Now click on the word "Show" on the WikiProject Sports Car Racing banner - see how the word "Hide" sort of "jumps to the left". I suspect it's to do with the inclusion of the "Shortcut" template within the WP:SCR template. A minor point, certainly, but one that someone (who knows more about code than me) may care to fix. DH85868993 08:51, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I notice it as well, so it's not just you seeing it. However I don't know much about coding, and didn't even add that element of the code to the template, so it's beyond me about how to fix it. The359 18:11, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Seems to have been fixed (probably ages ago). DH85868993 (talk) 01:51, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Stub drive

In an effort to help kick the project forward a little, I feel that an attempt should be made to create new articles that appear to be needed. However, instead of attempting to make a thorough article which takes time, at the very least some stubs should be created. I think it may be easier to get people motivated to write something if there is a stub, instead of nothing at all. The359 21:19, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Replacing succession boxes for individual races

One of the quirks of the individual races results pages that have been written so far is that the box at the bottom currently used to move through a season of a race series (Template:Sportscar Race Report) becomes quite uneven due to the variety of name length used in titles. This is especially noticable at the end of a season when one section just says None.

I'd like to hear suggestions about possibly switching to a Succession template similar to the one used on various driver profiles, such as at the bottom of JJ Lehto, which includes sucession boxes used for 24 Hours of Le Mans winners. The boxes are automatically centered regardless of the length of whatever is in the box. The359 19:02, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

The full page width doesn't look very pretty. Personally I had no problem with the uneven columns, but if the Sportscar Race Report template can be reduced to a width similar to the driver succession box, I'll support it, even if the race name is split between two lines to make it fit. --Pc13 17:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I think it might help if the race titles were changed in the template. Instead of having 2007 FIA GT Oschersleben 2 Hours we could instead go for just Oschersleben 2 Hours, since the 2007 and FIA GT would be redundant. It'd help bring the width down on the templates. It'd take quite a bit of editing to change every race over though. The359 22:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Or we could that too "/me slaps forehead for not thiking about it". --Pc13 10:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Car identification (again)

A recent gallery of pictures from the Silverstone Classic has appeared on Flickr under licensing that allows it to be uploaded to Commons. Lots of Historic Group C/GTP as well as old Aston Martin sportscars. However I need some help on identifying some of the cars pictured.

  • [9] - A Spice obviously, but I'm not sure which one, I've never really studied Spice chassis. I think it might be the IMSA GTP AK93 which shared some elements with the Allard J2X-C program.
  • [10] [11] - Has a Ford badge on it. C100? A Zakspeed? One of those Mustang Probe GTPs?
  • [12] - Another Spice, I recognize the headlight design at least, but again I don't know the model.
  • [13] - Not a clue here. Definately a C2/Lights car. Ecosse?
  • [14] - Older cars are more difficult for me. Lister?

The full gallery is here. I'll start uploading them soon once I have them identified. The359 22:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I have the full entry list if you need any further confirmations. Some of that gallery have already been uploaded. The answers are...
  1. Yes, Spice Chevrolet GTP. Placed well, and made the best noise of the weekend. Last Spice chassis ever constructed, apparently.
  2. Ford C100. The second Group C car design to appear, after the Porsche 956. Designed by Len Bailey but no more successful than his earlier Ford P68. Later raced as a Zakspeed after Ford orphaned it.
  3. Spice SE86.
  4. Now this one was a late entry, not listed, announced over the tannoy... just as the Spice GTP came past. So I missed it. I have a hunch that it's a Tiga of some ilk though?
  5. Again correct... and another English chassis making home for American big-block iron, a Lister Chevrolet.
There are more details, and even a full race report (for the GpC/GTP/IMSA races at least), at Group C/GTP Racing. Pyrope 23:32, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
The "Spice Chevrolet GTP" is colored to look like the Brix car, but several design elements don't jog with the AK93. The fourth car is identified in MST Timing as a "Harrier DFL", most likely a LR6. Looks like the Tiga when viewed from the front, that was my first guess too. --Pc13 00:15, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Looking through the archives, it definately appears to be a Harrier, but what specific one I don't know. this LR7 and this LR6 look almost identical. The359 00:40, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Ooof, I've found a second guy on Flickr who was at the event and released all his picture on Creative Commons. Prepare for a crapload of uploaded Group C/GTP pictures. The359 06:42, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

One more car I can't identify: [15] I assume it's an ADA from the look of the nose, but I'm not positive. There's no sponsorship to help me find it in photo archives. The359 18:03, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
That's the Bardon Ford DB2. Pyrope 18:20, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
p.s. As Pc13 alluded to earlier, the entry list and results are also available online here. Pyrope 18:28, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
I didn't realize the car numbers were on the PDF, I just had been going off of the list of car names/sponsors on the website. The359 19:15, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I figured out the Spice, it is not the Brix Racing car (which had an Acura V6). WSRP lists SE92-025 as having a Chevrolet V8, which was later rebuilt with a narrow cockpit and bi-plane wing. This is the car it had actually started out life as. So the car seen at Silverstone is not in its original racing configuration. The359 05:18, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if the pictures of the car are worth uploading if it doesn't look at all like the original Spice. I'm not even sure if Spice even did the modifications. The359 05:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
The Spice picture in that image is as run by Spice USA/David Tennyson Racing in 1993 though the livery is wrong. While true SE92-025 was convereted to AK93 GTP spec and therefore wasn't originally in this configuration when the car was first built, this is the last original configuration the car was in and is correct to the car, espcially if you're using the SE92-025 chassis number. In general, figure as Spices were upgraded (SE86 to SE88, SE90, etc.) their chassis plate tended to reflect the upgrade. Additionally SE92-025 was the only Spice converted to AK93 GTP spec, so there are slight differences between this configuration and the Camel Lights AK93 configuration. There were only ever three AK93 kits manufactured; one to Brix, one to Comtech, and one to Spice USA Mulsannescorner (talk) 05:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Yet another one...

Found another group of photos of historic cars, having trouble with this one. 908? 910? Something else? The359 00:17, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Judging by the lights and the shape and position of the air intakes I would say an early model 908, almost identical to the one shown here. Pyrope 07:06, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
That does look right. The funky arrangement of the slots at the front seemed to be what was throwing me off the most. Almost thought it was an early 917 at one point. The359 07:20, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

2007 Le Mans Series race results up for deletion

Soon after posting the results for the 2007 1000km of Spa for the Le Mans Series earlier today, someone had decided to nominate all four results for 2007 in the Le Mans Series (Monza, Valencia, and Nürburgring) for deletion, citing that because they are mostly results tables they are deletable. Please voice your opinion regarding this AfD at this discussion. The359 21:02, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Nationality of some sports car teams

I've spent some time recently placing articles about auto racing teams into the relevant "<country> auto racing teams" categories. I've done all the teams listed in Category:Sports car racing teams except the following ones, about which I was unsure:

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me can put these articles into the right categories (or just advise of the correct country/ies so I can do it). Thanks. DH85868993 02:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Direxiv is not a team, they are just a sponsor who happened to be part of team names, such as "DPR Direxiv Racing" which was really just David Price Racing.
  • Fernandez might technically be American, or at least licensed as American, but they almost universally identify as Mexican. I'm not sure what to do with that one.
  • JetAlliance is Austrian, they raced under Austrian license last year as well under the RaceAlliance name.
  • Krohn is American
  • SunTrust Racing is American, they actually took over from another team I believe with SunTrust as primary sponsor.
  • Toyota Team Europe is based out of Germany, but I believe they have raced under the Japanese flag in most series. I'd say use both. The359 02:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, 359. DH85868993 04:23, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Fernandez might operate with a Mexican racing license, even though they're based in America. JMB Racing is a similar case, they changed address to Monaco to operate with a Monegasque racing license, even though they're still based in Nice. I believe facility location should not be important to define team nationality - Benetton raced in F1 as Italian while operating from the UK, Penske used to build their Indycar chassis in the UK too. And Direxiv raced in Super GT as "Direxiv Motorsports" in the past, but I don't know who was behind the technical operations, it might have been a "Carsport Holland" situation as well. --Pc13 07:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm fairly sure Direxiv is actually just a sponsor title being used in place of a team's actual name. If I remember correctly, Direxiv itself as a company was actually related to food somehow... The359 07:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
FWIW, Fernandez has both Mexican and American flags on their car (commons:Image:Lola_B0643.jpg). It might be best to call them both, like with TTE. Spyder_Monkey (Talk) 01:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's what I did:

Thanks for all your help. DH85868993 02:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

FYI -- Fernandez runs under a US License. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:33, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

And now for a round of "Name That Race"...

Not '52 Le Mans...

Hi. I just removed the image on the right from the pages 1952 24 Hours of Le Mans and List of 24 Hours of Le Mans winners. It was described by the original uploader as depicting the 1952 Le Mans event, however, in that race the #22 car was the works Mercedes 300SL of Kling/Klenk, which that car plainly is not. So, any ideas about where it might actually be? Judging by the soldier/policeman, the scenery and the huge volume of sand, I'm guessing Spain, Italy or north Africa. Assuming that it is indeed 1952 (I can find no evidence that it is) then we can also eliminate the Targa Florio on car number grounds. Alternatively, the lead car is almost certainly either a Ferrari 166 S or 195 S, so the date could be up to four years earlier. In fact, I am 99.9% certain that it is the 1949-winning 166MM of Selsdon and (mostly) Chinetti, as shown here. But as I say, the scenery looks wrong for La Sarthe. A similar car ran under the same number in the 1949 Circuito di Pescara, but is the centre spotlight too much of a coincidence? Is the Pescara car in fact this one? Any help pinning it down would be appreciated! Pyrope 09:32, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

It might be Le Mans 1949 at that. The #11 blue car is a Delahaye, and a #11 Delahaye finished 5th that year, driven by Robert Brunet and Georges Grignard. But are you sure that's a photograph and not an illustration? It might be just the resolution's fault, but those look like painted colours to me. --Pc13 10:46, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I think the level of detail in the wicker fencing and for the countryside in the background indicate that it is a photograph, although probably a hand-tinted one. Also, no artist worth their salt would have included an electricity pylon! If it is hand-tinted then that would explain the slightly unreal and unplaceable landscape. Thanks for identifying the #11 car, that just about seals it as the '49 Le Mans race. Pyrope 10:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

As a separate point linked to the same image, I am fairly sure that any use of it other than for the Auto Sport Review magazine article contravenes fair use as defined in {{Non-free magazine cover}}? However, as the image is now 58 years old, is it still under copyright? Pyrope 11:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Tojeiro troubles...

Toj Jag

I'm enjoying this game, so this time something a bit different. Not so much "name that car", but "explain that car". I recently snapped this Toj (see right) at the SeeRed meeting at Donington. While it is undoubtedly a Tojeiro Jaguar I'm a bit stumped as to which one it is. I have seen the reg. number 7 GNO on the third car, but it was wearing very different bodywork (see here). This one is plainly D-type based, so I can't imagine that swapping bodies is easy as the monocoque should be partially stressed skin in construction. So, is this car borrowing a number? Is the other? Have they actually gone to the trouble of rebodying it? Anyone able to cast some light on the conundrum? Ta! Pyrope 13:09, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Expansion of prototype articles

I've been thinking about a way to organize various types of prototypes that have been used in racing since the move from production-based cars to the custom-built prototypes of today. We already have Group C, Le Mans Prototype, and Daytona Prototype. I think we can stand to see an article dedicated to Group 6 (currently a redirect to Group C), as well as a creation of Grand Touring Prototype (currently a redirect to IMSA GT Championship). Finally, Sports-prototype (currently a redirect to Le Mans Prototype) can be made into a short summary page of the various types of prototypes of the years, including some elements seen in sports car racing.

Ideas? The359 07:18, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree that sports-prototype is the generic name, and certainly shouldn't link to a particular series, and a brief summary of the development of prototype racing and its differences from GT or production-based racing need expounding on there. I think that this page should operate as a hub, from which the various, specific series can be linked and drawn together. As prototypes arguably have their roots in the Brooklands specials of the pre-WWII years, some historical perspective can also be included on a general page, which wouldn't be appropriate when discussing a single series. Pyrope 13:54, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Should the article be Sports-prototype, Sports prototype, or possibly Prototype (motorsports) or Prototype (sports car racing)? Or anything else? The359 04:21, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I reckon that it ought to be Sports prototype. That is the most familiar construction, in my experience, and a google search would appear to back it up. As for qualifying which sport the prototype is referring to, I can't think of another sport with an intrinsic prototyping aspect to it. The above link has existed as a redirect to LMP for well over a year now and nobody has complained. Pyrope 09:37, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I've started a stub. It's not much of anything, but I think the seperation between sports car and prototype makes history quite difficult. I'd like to have a brief explanation of each type of prototype as well as a link to a main article, but just for now I've made it a list. The359 06:17, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Deutsche Rennsport Meisterschaft for Speedy Deletion

Just to remind everybody, as the article creator, I have been given a CSD tag although it was sourced from numerous sites. What can I do about this? Willirennen 02:11, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Just to point out that it was a work of a vandal. Willirennen 02:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
I would assume it might be related to User:, who you seem to have hit a nerve with. Hopefully this doesn't continue as he seems to like to attack any page you've worked on, and that obviously affects a large number of motorsports pages. The359 03:31, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Apparently, it started when I removed his beloved popular culture section of the Plymouth Valiant, plus funny enough, the User talk:Mastermesh came and added a speedy deletion, therefore I assume it is him. Willirennen 03:22, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Scuderia Ferrari / Ferrari

These two articles are something that I think really needs the attention of this project. After a quick review of Scuderia Ferrari, I found only 2 mentions of Ferrari's early exploits in the Mille Miglia, 1 mention of only 1950s World Sportscar Championship success, 4 mentions of Le Mans victories, and a mention of Ferrari leaving sports cars in 1973. Ferrari on the other hand only mentions the company winning their first Le Mans, and speaks more of the history of Luigi Chinetti and NART than Le Mans itself.

I think that one of the most successful manufacturers and teams in sports car racing from the 1950s-1973 deserves a little more attention than this.

There is however one quick question that I was curious about and hope someone can answer, while we attempt to expand these two articles at the same time. Scuderia Ferrari participated in the WSC from 1953 to 1961. However from 1962 to 1973, the factory teams were entered under variations of the name SpA Ferrari SEFAC. So my question is, was Scuderia Ferrari still the factory sports car team from 1962 onward, or was the sports car division considered a seperate entity from Scuderia Ferrari in this period? The359 18:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm also considering bringing this up with WP:MOTOR because I think that non-Formula One stuff really needs to be expanding on not only Ferrari, but several other major teams/manufacturers as well. The359 18:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree as well, as I feel sorry for today's kids who seem to think all Ferrari did and achieved is F1, when in reality Enzo cared more about the Italian road races more than F1. I always think that the Scuderia and SEFAC was the same team rather than being a separate entity. Willirennen 12:37, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, Scuderia and SEFAC (Scuderia Enzo Ferrari Auto Corse) are synonyms. The racing entity was identical. I'll leave a few more comments at the article's talk page. Pyrope 14:45, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I've taken the liberty of expanding the racing section on Ferrari to at least include their championship wins and Le Mans wins, just to cover the basics. The359 02:32, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Japan Le Mans Challenge cancelled - Merge articles?

Word has come that the Japan Le Mans Challenge, which was only created in 2006, has already been cancelled by the ACO. A new, broader Asian series might come in 2009, but for now there's no more JLMC.

The series was extremely small and only ran two seasons, most races only having a dozen or so cars. I'm wondering if some articles should be deleted and changed to redirects. There's currently the main article (Japan Le Mans Challenge), two season pages (2006 Japan Le Mans Challenge season and the not updated 2007 Japan Le Mans Challenge season), and three race pages from 2006 (2006 Sportsland Sugo 1000km, 2006 Motegi 1000km, and 2006 Okayama 1000km, with none of the races for 2007 ever written).

Merge the few race pages into the season pages? Merge the season pages into just the general article? With a series this short-lived, small, and with so littl einformation about it, I think having specific race/season pages might fail notability. The359 (talk) 18:17, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

1 Year

Just an announcement that today is the 1 year anniversary of this project being started. There are now just over 1000 articles tagged under the banner of this project, and I think that sports car racing has grown a great deal here on Wikipedia in this past year, especially in comparison to other forms of motorsport. Some areas have grown far beyond what I had expected, while there are always areas where I wish more could be done.

However, this should not take away from the work that everyone involved in the project has done, no matter how little or how much. Thanks to everyone who has helped get this project off the ground, and hopefully more sports car fans will appear and things will continue to improve. The359 (talk) 16:02, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


I have a contact at flickr who has a broad racing photostream. He has agreed to change the license on any of his images to Creative Commons Attribution/ShareAlike so that Wikipedia can used them as long as we request which ones. He has uploaded a large set of images from the 2008 Rolex 24 and several images of older cars on display. I already uploaded this image. Here is a link to that image, and here's a link to the set. I'll probably have already secured several images of drivers by the time you read this message. Enjoy - it's wonderful! Royalbroil 04:24, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I actually was at the same event and have pictures of most all of the historics present, which I began uploading today as well. I already have the Richard Lloyd Racing Porsche 924 Carrera GTR, Risi Competizione Lola B2K/40, Comptech Racing Spice-Acura, and Clayton Cunningham Nissan 300ZX pictures uploaded.
Will also upload pictures of the Nissan GTP ZX-Turbo, Howmet TX Turbine, Rothmans Porsche 962 (actually just a showroom mockup), Andretti-Holbert Miller High Life 962, Blue Thunder Racing March-Chevrolet, March-BMW GTP, and Roush Ford Mustangs and Merkur XR4Ti. Plus all the Rolex cars and drivers, although I believe his pictures are probably better quality in that area.
Figures that for once someone uploads to Creative Commons, we now have two sources to go off of. The359 (talk) 04:35, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
My (still incomplete) collection is here by the way, all under CC-BY-2.0. Not only Rolex Series, but also KONI Challenge and various sightings around the infield parking lots. Just be sure I haven't uploaded something already. The359 (talk) 04:37, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
He got some real nice closeup shots. It's up to you want you want to do because my knowledge of sports car racing is fairly broad and you definitely know much more than I do. He normally uses "All Rights Reserved", so you would need to ask him about each image. He'll change each one to Creative Commons, but you have to ask/mark them. I uploaded all of his driver images here whenever there wasn't one currently. There's a nice picture of actor Patrick Dempsey in his driver's suit plus several great pictures of Milka Duno (but she already had numerous good images), NASCAR driver Kurt Busch and his wife, etc. I added you as a friend in flickr, The359. Nice shot of Dan Wheldon! Royalbroil 19:02, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree that his pictures of the drivers as well as the Rolex race itself are much better and should be used, but his shots of the Historics seem to have been taken at dusk, and most are closer to the car so you lose some of the corners. He also used a fisheye on some of them as well.
I'm all for using his pictures on a lot of stuff, but for instance the Miller High Life 962, I'd think this (with some cropping) or this might be a better alternative to the one you uploaded. I'll definitely upload mine anyway, especially all the interior and close-up shots (for instance, I'm going to use the close-up of the 962 gurney flap on the Gurney flap article). The359 (talk) 19:11, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Also, to answer your question about which chassis that is, it is 962-HR7, the last Holbert Racing-built chassis. The Rothmans 962 is actually 962-119, originally a BF Goodrich IMSA GTP car that was repainted in Rothmans colors for use as a show car. The GTP ZX-Turbo is #8805, originally a replacement and test car that never actually participated in any races. And the Howmet TX is a "replica" built in 2000 on a spare, unfinished chassis. The359 (talk) 19:22, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I asked the question about the car because I thought that it would be hard for Wikipedians to figure it out. Wow, was I wrong! About the Andretti car image: Do whatever you think is best. I won't undo it. The lines on the car are very important, so what you are proposing sounds reasonable to me. Royalbroil 05:59, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure I could have figured it out on my own (Holbert only ever ran Miller High Life paintjobs on two cars), but I'll admit the sign next to the car actually said it was #HR7. Same with 962 #119 (which, admittedly, would have been much harder, especially with the false paintjob). The GTP ZX-Turbo I know because the chassis plate is attached behind the dash, and the Howmet had a sign stating its chassis number as well. The359 (talk) 06:28, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Part 2

He has uploaded another large set of great images from Sebring. A few are current cars and many more were taken during a historic Trans Am race. Let me know what you think and I can ask him. Royalbroil 18:05, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

So far its just Speed GT stuff, not really sure if I have any need for any of that yet. I don't really dabble in Trans-Am either, so really I don't know. The359 (talk) 17:36, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Part 3

He has uploaded a third set, this time from the 2008 event at Virginia International Raceway [16]. I can ask him about these images, or you can ask him yourself. Royalbroil 14:54, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Gulf Oil GA Sweeps Review: On Hold

As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria. I have left this message at this WikiProject's talk page since the article falls under its scope and so that any interested members can assist in helping the article keep its GA status. I'm specifically going over all of the "World History-Americas" articles. I have reviewed Gulf Oil and believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. Please consider helping address the several points that I listed on the talk page of the article, which shouldn't take too long to fix. I left messages for the main contributors to the article so that the workload can be shared. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 04:45, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Andy Lally

I have requested expansion on his sports car career. He seems to have accomplished a lot, and the section is real basic right now. Royalbroil 17:07, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, definitely someone who has a huge history beyond just his recent NASCAR exploits. Certainly a lot of F1 drivers out there as well that need an expansion of their sports car careers. I'll see what I can dig up. The359 (talk) 19:00, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Requesting to move Ferrari Breadvan

Can anybody suggest what the article for the 1962 Le Mans special be renamed to, could it be Ferrari "Breadvan" or just Ferrari Breadvan, which the article is already merged to or Ferrari 250GT SWB "Breadvan" considering Breadvan could be as in the van used by bakeries, thats to non-car people. What do you suggest?

Hmm, clearly the word Ferrari should be included somewhere. I'd personally opt for something slightly shorter: Ferrari 250GT "Breadvan". But frankly, pick one and be bold, we can discuss the fine points at a later date. Pyrope 17:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Didn't even know someone had an article on it. I have to ponder if it is even worth having an article for a car that really only ran two races, and is really nothing more than a variant of the 250GT? Could it not be integrated into the Ferrari 250 article?
Racing results list the car as a Ferrari 250 GT SWB Drogo. Maybe simply Ferrari 250 GT Drogo for the title if necessary? The359 (talk) 19:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
No, remember the common names policy. In English it is far more widely known as the Breadvan. Pyrope 20:39, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I guess just Ferrari Breadvan then? The359 (talk) 21:01, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Could be, although as you point out, it may be better as part of a larger article on the 250GT SWB eventually. Pyrope 21:20, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll be bold and settle for Ferrari 250 GT SWB Drogo. It may seem long winded but I prefer to put formal names before nicknames for majority of the times. Willirennen (talk) 18:28, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
At the very least, I think the SWB bit could have been left out. It's not an acronym that would be common to use or well known. The359 (talk) 19:00, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect image?

A comment on Talk:Jacky Ickx suggests that the image on his page labelled as a 956 is actually a 962. I don't know enough to know whether the comment is correct, but I thought someone here might. DH85868993 (talk) 09:50, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I honestly have a hard time being able to tell as well. The key point I know of is that the front axle of a 962 is farther forward, and that the bodywork on the front is shorter beyond the front wheel on a 962. But I can't tell if that particular car is a 962. The359 (talk) 16:15, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Touch of class

I've got a request for help. It's been clarified HM=SCCA's Class H Modified, but I'm concerned about over-generalizing. If somebody's got access to a contemporary rulebook (the website doesn't say, & the regs are likely to have changed since the '50s...), it would be a help. I'm also posting to WP Motorsports.

Also, I'd welcome clarification on where the Offut & MacDill events were run, & anything else...

If you read Italian, you can also help out with the associated links & at Bandini Automobili & its links... Thanks. TREKphiler hit me ♠ 05:58 & 06:16, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup

Currently, 1230 articles are assigned to this project, of which 161, or 13.1%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 14 July 2008.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. More than 150 projects and work groups have already subscribed, and adding a subscription for yours is easy - just place the following template on your project page:

{{User:WolterBot/Cleanup listing subscription|banner=WikiProject Sports Car Racing}}

If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page; I'm not watching this page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 15:59, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

This WikiProject has now been added to the automated listing. For a list of all articles with clean-up tags, please see the box which has been added to the project's main page, below the To-Do List. The359 (talk) 01:27, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


FYI: This user has recently started making contributions that are significantly contaminated with copy-paste copyvio from other sites. Unfortunately they have been selective and taken a sentence or two from one site, then another couple from another. Those parts that are written in their own words are pretty poor. I have already tagged Len Bailey (a page we desperately need) for deletion for being 99% copyvio, and other such as Alan Mann Racing (another one that I desperately want to find the time and sources to write properly) are a disgrace. The user is new so they are most likely doing this in good faith, but it is likely going to take one or two of use to go through and scrub out all the damaging and messy material. I tried to make a start but ran out of time. I'll keep my eyes on them, but it may be a couple of weeks before I can sit down and go through their contribution history thoroughly. If anyone else could keep tabs on them and offer assistance as required as well it might be a good thing. Their heart is obviously in the right place, they just need guidance. Pyrope 15:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I had previously noticed his contributions to the racing career of Sir Gawaine Baillie, 7th Baronet. I had tagged it as needing clean-up in the hope that it'd be rewritten not only to avoid copyright, but in a more encyclopedic manner. This article can probably be salvaged and the motorsports section rewritten easily, so I'll take a stab at it. I had this same sort of problem with another user in a non-motorsports related article the other night. Hopefully it's just a coincidence that it's happening a lot recently. The359 (talk) 19:48, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Sportscar Points Scoring on Wikipedia

I must admit, I am only a casual fan of sportscar racing but Wikipedia is where I come to check the points tables for the ALMS and LMS. One thing that puzzles me about the format utilized on Wikipedia is that if a car does not finish the minimum distance for points, it is not rated as "0" points, but instead left blank - so when looking at scores, it becomes impossible to know offhand what cars particpated at each event unless you go to the results page directly. Why not either leave it blank for zero points and a participation and add a "-" if the car did not particpate at the event? Or leave it blank for no participation and add a "0" for participation for no points? Or a "0" for participation and no points and a "-" for no participation at all? It seems relatively easy to do and would make things a little clearer I think - anyways, it's just an idea. Ultimatum (talk) 02:01, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I believe part of the reason I did not attempt to include "0"s for teams which did not score points was simply because of the fact that I would then have to include every team which participated but never scored any points all season. For ALMS and LMS this isn't much of a problem, but for series such as the old World Championship, it can lead to some very massive charts. I can tell you that the LMS official PDF documents for team rankings do list every team and include "0"s for non-points scoring races and "-"s for non-participation. ALMS on the other hand simply leaves the section blank and does not list teams which have yet to score points.
Really, it could go either way, but I believe I stuck with the same setup for all sports car series just to have some conformity. The359 (talk) 00:51, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I don't think there should be much a problem. The first time there was a driver's championship was in 1982, and by that time there were no large road races that would have caused that problem, like the Targa Florio (I think there was still a couple of 1000 km Nurburgring that had several touring car classes included in the race). WSC in the Group C days and FIA GT could have 0-point scores added to the table. --Pc13 (talk) 09:09, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

LMS: Manufacturers' championship?

Primarily this is not an improvement suggestion but this puzzles me. In the main article and season articles, there are only driver and team championship points tables. But often drivers or team principals are talking about "winning the Manufacturers' title" and so on. On -> Classifications there is a PDF that lists manufacturer points. Is it somehow less official championship than Teams' and Drivers' or what is the reason for excluding it? (talk) 16:23, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if the LMS has had a manufacturers championship throughout its entire history. No particular reason it's not included, it's just usually been a question of Team Championships in the past as there was little manufacturer involvement before. The359 (talk) 16:53, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
On second look, I'm actually trying to figure out how the championship points are awarded. It looks to me as if they take the two highest finishers for that manufacturer and combine their score, but ignore any others. Unlike the ALMS which just uses the highest scoring car. The359 (talk) 17:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Sports racing car category

I've recently spent some time moving articles from Category:Racing cars into relevant subcategories. One subcategory that is notable by its absence is "Category:Sports racing cars" (there are some more specific categories such as Category:IMSA GTP cars and Category:Le Mans Prototypes, but not an overarching "Sports racing cars" category). The kind of cars I would envisage being included in such a category would be the cars that have raced at Le Mans through the years, cars which raced in the various incarnations of the World Sportscar Championship, IMSA cars, etc e.g. Jaguar C-Type, Ferrari 312P, Lotus 23, etc. But before I create and populate the category, there are a few points I'd like to discuss:

  • Is "Sports racing cars" a suitable name for the category?
  • What would be the criteria for inclusion in the category, i.e. what's the distinction between a "sports car" and a "sports racing car"
  • Should we have a separate subcategory for "sports prototypes"?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. DH85868993 (talk) 11:47, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I've been trying to think of how to structure all of it since I first saw this. It can be quite a hard distinction to create as you go further back in history. I do agree that a category should be created for "sports racing cars", and I think that is most likely the best name.
As for what can be included in sports racing cars, that's a bit more difficult. Certainly almost any car could have been taken racing back in the early days of the World Championship, as long as it fit engine requirements. My original idea was simply to include cars that manufacturers modified for racing, but that would certainly neglect many cars which private companies took racing based solely on production road car vehicles.
I think that sports prototypes could be used as a suitable subcategory. Another, existing subcategory, is Category:Grand tourer racing cars, which currently includes just GT cars from the last decade or so, but could certainly include many historic production cars turned racing cars. Sports prototypes should be left simply to those cars which never had to meet street legality requirements, so your Group 6s, Group 7s, Group Cs, GTPs, etc. I guess this would simply leave the open cockpit, 1950s/1960s production sports cars as the only thing not within these two categories. The359 (talk) 20:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
I've created and populated Category:Sports racing cars and Category:Sports prototypes and made some other changes to the category structure under Category:Racing cars. Please feel free to correct any blunders I have made. DH85868993 (talk) 13:34, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Possible restructure of Scuderia Ferrari article

Please add your thoughts at Talk:Scuderia_Ferrari#Possible_restructure. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 02:10, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

List of motorsport terminology

Per this discussion at Wikiproject Motorsport I recently created the page List of motorsport terminology. Designed primarily to combat jargon, feel free to drop by and add common motorsport terms (this is going to be a big list). Apterygial 05:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


at Talk:Corvette, there is a discussion going on if the warship (Corvette (ship) or sports car Chevrolet Corvette is the primary meaning of Corvette. This is listed at WP:RM (talk) 12:00, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Michael Schumacher under GA review

Hello there, the article Michael Schumacher which falls under the auspices of this Wikiproject, has come under review as part of GA Sweeps and a number of problems have been identified and listed on the talk page. If these problems have not begun to be addressed by seven days from this notice, the article will be delisted from GA and will have to go through the WP:GAN process all over again to regain its status once improvements have been made. If you have any questions, please drop me a line.--Jackyd101 (talk) 22:38, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Mercedes CLR - French translation

I'm doing some research for a possible expansion of the Mercedes-Benz CLR article, and I came across this video convering the presentation and testing of the CLR. Unfortunately it's in French, and I don't know French. So I'd really appreciate it if there was someone who could translate and trascribe what is being said in the video, because I'm sure there can be some usual information. IIIVIX 06:33, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Le Mans merger proposal

I've proposed that the Bugatti Circuit article be merged into Circuit de la Sarthe. This may be discussed here.Mustang6172 (talk) 04:11, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Ford GT40

Ken Miles death in the J-car is described as..."Unfortunately, the fatal Miles accident was attributed at least partly to the unproven aerodynamics of the J-car design, and the team embarked on a complete redesign of the car, which became known as the Mk IV." Doane Spencer told me his version of the story while waiting in the credential line at Road Atlanta in 1981 or 1982, which was that a rear brake rotor fractured and cleaned the caliper off the upright on the following rotation, subsequently leading to the failure of the suspension on that corner. This anecdote came up during a discussion of water cooled brakes and their history and application. Spencer's account clearly insinuated if not indicated he had been present as a member of the crew at that event and was involved in the follow-up investigation and vehicle recovery. Spencer's overall credentials as a master racing mechanic are impeccable and well-known, but I personally cannot authenticate his presence at the J-car event, nor the details of his account. I find it far more believable and detailed than the oft-cited and repeated aerodynamics failure credited with causing the crash. Miles was a development driver precisely because he knew all too well how to drive on the edge of an ill-handling race car, and I believe a catastrophic mechanical failure was more likely to contribute to a crash of that magnitude than general aerodynamic instability. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:59, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based on reliable referencing. If reference back the claims that Miles' death was due to aerodynamic problems, then that's what we use. "Water cooler discussions" cannot be used in place of facts which are stated by multiple reliable resources, even if you believe they may be wrong. Find something written about the accident which backs this claim. IIIVIX (Talk) 04:10, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

World Le Mans Series

I've created World Le Mans Series based on two reliable sources. I hope that you expand this article when time comes. Good bye! --NaBUru38 (talk) 16:47, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Reliable sources make no mention of such a thing. There is an Intercontinental Trophy being held next year, not a "World Le Mans Series". Your entire article is speculative. IIIVIX (Talk) 17:40, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
The user above has nominated the article for deletion. Please join the discussion here. --NaBUru38 (talk) 19:15, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


What happened to GT 1 class and why? Is this going to happened to GT2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:50, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Depends on which GT1 class you're talking about, FIA or ACO. FIA is altering GT1 to build a world championship while the ACO is doing away with GT1 because the cars are too expensive and no one wants to run them. IIIVIX (Talk) 20:58, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

GAN backlog reduction - Sports and recreation

As you may know, we currently have 400 good article nominations, with a large number of them being in the sports and recreation section. As such, the waiting time for this is especially long, much longer than it should be. As a result of this, I am asking each sports-related WikiProject to review two or three of these nominations. If this is abided by, then the backlog should be cleared quite quickly. Some projects nominate a lot but don't review, or vice-versa, and following this should help to provide a balance and make the waiting time much smaller so that our articles can actually get reviewed! Wizardman 23:39, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

ALMS class change?

Can anyone tell me why GT1 was dropped from ALMS after Sebring this year? I see cars that used to be GT1 in the new GT2 class and the cars that used to run GT2 are not on the track. Where did they go? Now I read that LMP1 and LMP2 will combine to be LMP in 2010 and a new LMPC class will be added. What is the deal?

Gjolusczak (talk) 21:26, 26 September 2009 (UTC)Greg Olusczak

There are no GT1 cars in GT2. Corvette built a brand new car specifically for the GT2 class. All the cars that ran GT2 last year are still running GT2 this year. See 2010 American Le Mans Series for more information on the combination of LMP1 and LMP2 and the creation of the LMPC. IIIVIX (Talk) 21:38, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

1000 km races revisited

Is there any reason why 1000km Spa and 1000km Monza have no space between the "1000" and the "km", whereas 1000 km Brands Hatch, 1000 km Buenos Aires, 1000 km Nürburgring, 1000 km Silverstone, 1000 km Suzuka and 1000 km Zeltweg all have a space? DH85868993 (talk) 07:30, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Because no one moved them yet. They all should from my understanding of MOS. IIIVIX (Talk) 07:31, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Cool. If there are no dissenting opinions within the next 24 hours, I'll move them. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 07:36, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
I've moved them. DH85868993 (talk) 13:58, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Translation of Emmanuel Collard

Hi, the article Emmanuel Collard is not very informative. There is a better biography section in French Wikipedia which should be translated. The only problem is I don't speak any French. Could someone translate it, please? -- (talk) 17:35, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Should FIA GT Championship be added to the defunct list?

Since its been replaced with the GT1 world championship and the gt2 championship, shouldn't it be now recognised as defunct since no races will be held under that name/regulations anymore? - User talk:bergqvistjl —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:43, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

It should, although I think it might be safe to wait until the new GT1/GT2 seasons start up next year. The 2009 championship technically still isn't decided yet (FIA court appeal). The359 (Talk) 18:19, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Grand-Am Challange

Please see here. --NaBUru38 (talk) 18:33, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Le Mans 2010 Entry List

hi, the entry list for the 2010 race has been confirmed by the A.C.O.

is there already somebody working on putting the entry list into the 2010 24h Le Mans page? I would like to contribute and put the list in there.

Thanks for feedback (I'm new to Wiki).

Baszero (talk) 14:05, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

It's being worked on, it's simply an issue of having the time to add it at the moment for me. The359 (Talk) 17:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Shall I do it for you? I think we Le Mans Fans are waiting for that list and I would like to link to it from my web site: Baszero (talk) 14:50, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Original GT-40 Body Material

I understand the original chassis were aluminum, but was the body material fiberglass or aluminum?

Dallenmorrisjr (talk) 13:33, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced living people articles bot

User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects provides a list, updated daily, of unreferenced living people articles (BLPs) related to your project. There has been a lot of discussion recently about deleting these unreferenced articles, so it is important that these articles are referenced.

The unreferenced articles related to your project can be found at >>>Wikipedia:WikiProject Sports Car Racing/Archive 2/Unreferenced BLPs<<<

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Thank you.

Update: Wikipedia:WikiProject Sports Car Racing/Archive 2/Unreferenced BLPs has been created. This list, which is updated by User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects daily, will allow your wikiproject to quickly identify unreferenced living person articles.
There maybe no or few articles on this new Unreferenced BLPs page. To increase the overall number of articles in your project with another bot, you can sign up for User:Xenobot_Mk_V#Instructions.
If you have any questions or concerns, visit User talk:DASHBot/Wikiprojects. Okip 23:28, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Problems with 2009 season articles

Having quickly dashed through the collection of articles under 2009 in motorsport template, I have found the following articles do not mention who won the race/championship/title featured in the topic in the opening paragraph, or in the executive summary at the start of each of the articles.

The winner of these series or events is the most important detail of each as sporting events and they should all have this article included up top as a matter of logical writing for encylopedic content.

The list is:

--Falcadore (talk) 03:21, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, they should, I added it for the FIA GT championship but, as usual, it was on my "list of things to do but never got around to". It's still on that list, hopefully I'll get to them soon when I have the time and patience. Others are more than welcome to add them as well. The359 (Talk) 04:09, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Sports Notability

There is discussion ongoing at Wikipedia_talk:BIO#RFC:_WP:Athlete_Professional_Clause_Needs_Improvement debating possible changes to the WP:ATHLETE notability guideline. As a result, some have suggested using WP:NSPORT as an eventual replacement for WP:ATHLETE. Editing has begun at WP:NSPORT, please participate to help refine the notability guideline for the sports covered by this wikiproject. —Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 03:38, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Maserati in motorsport

I'd like to alert the project to the recent creation of Maserati in motorsport. It currently contains only information about Maserati's Formula One activities (the article was originally created as Maserati in Formula One and then moved to Maserati in motorsport following a discussion at WP:F1) - feel free to add details of Maserati's sportscar racing activities. DH85868993 (talk) 00:29, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Category:Motorsport competitions by year of establishment

I notice the recent creation of Category:Motorsport competitions by year of establishment. Project members may care to populate the various year subcategories (creating new ones as required). DH85868993 (talk) 07:51, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons

The WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons (UBLPs) aims to reduce the number of unreferenced biographical articles to under 30,000 by June 1, primarily by enabling WikiProjects to easily identify UBLP articles in their project's scope. There were over 52,000 unreferenced BLPs in January 2010 and this has been reduced to 32,665 as of May 16. A bot is now running daily to compile a list of all articles that are in both Category:All unreferenced BLPs and have been tagged by a WikiProject. Note that the bot does NOT place unreferenced tags or assign articles to projects - this has been done by others previously - it just compiles a list.

Your Project's list can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Sports Car Racing/Unreferenced BLPs. As of May 17 you have approximately 35 articles to be referenced. The list of all other WikiProject UBLPs can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons/WikiProjects.

Your assistance in reviewing and referencing these articles is greatly appreciated. If you have any questions, please don't hestitate to ask either at WT:URBLP or at my talk page. Thanks, The-Pope (talk) 17:05, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Chevrolet Corvette C6.R

Are you sure that the name "Chevrolet Corvette C6.R" is correct?. I thought it is only called "Corvette C6.R" without "Chevrolet". (talk) 16:59, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

In the United States, the Corvette is sold under the Chevrolet brand. See Chevrolet Corvette. Everywhere else in the world, since Chevrolet just sells Daewoos, they have Corvette as a seperate brand name. The359 (Talk) 17:56, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

This topic ain't covered

Sports-related outlines currently under development include:


But there is no Outline of sports car racing.

Can you guys beat the other Sports WikiProjects to completion?

To create an outline on sports car racing, click on the redlink above and add this line:

{{subst:BLT|sports car racing|Sports car racing}}

Then press Save page and start adding relevant subheadings and links.

For the whole set of outlines on Wikipedia, see Portal:Contents/Outlines.

Here are some examples of developed outlines:

The Transhumanist 00:15, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Corvette (again)

If you haven't already commented either way at Talk:Corvette on a proposal to turn Corvette into a redirect to Chevrolet Corvette, or you have commented and you were not aware that the discussion drags on and on, then you may wish to do so. Shem (talk) 16:42, 4 May 2011 (UTC)