Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board

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24 August:

A scale model of the B11 in Holbrook
To-Do edit | watch
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Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Australia:


Requests · ABSTUDY · Ariadne Australia · Awakenings disability arts festival · Drought Force · Electoral reform in Australia · Festival of the Dreaming · Fossils of Australia · Landforms of Australia · National Tidal Centre · Office of the Status of Women · OneAustralia · Property Council of Australia

Articles needing attention · Crime in Australia · Cycling Australia · Disappearance of Joanne Ratcliffe and Kirste Gordon · Environment of Australia · Privacy in Australian law · Tourism in Australia

Images requested · Benjamin Benjamin · Cheryl Kernot · MV Pacific Adventurer · Poppy King · Rosemary Goldie · James Moore

Verification needed · Architecture of Australia · Australian performance poetry · Hindmarsh Island Royal Commission · List of Australian political controversies · Outback · Paul Wild Observatory · Punk rock in Australia · Reg Ansett


Quality watch:

Anyone with a Monte Carlo biscuit in the cupboard?[edit]

The Monte Carlo (biscuit) article has no photos (nothing available on Commons). Surely among us, there must be someone with a packet of these popular biscuits in the cupboard who could do a quick snapshot and upload. Kerry (talk) 02:14, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

I actually have a pack - I just love them. I'll take a photo tomorrow, @Kerry Raymond:, thanks for posting this. Steven Crossin 12:52, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, Steve! I hoped someone would bite into this! Kerry (talk) 22:14, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done @Kerry Raymond and Steven Crossin: I also have a picture of the unopened packet but I am presuming that this is copyrighted and hencenot useable in a wiki ? Aoziwe (talk) 15:44, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Aoziwe! I suspect you are right about the cocpyright on the packaging, but I think folks probably want to see the biscuit more than the packet anyway. Thanks for the scientific dissection of the biscuit; I hope it didn't interfere with your enjoyment of eating it later :-) Kerry (talk) 01:14, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
It was eaten before I had finished the edit of the article ! Aoziwe (talk) 10:58, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
We can't add the "No Monte Carlos were harmed in the writing of this article" tag then..... ;) Jamesbushell.au (talk) 08:54, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Any other biscuits, chocolates or similar that need detailed photographic evidence (prior to being eaten)? The-Pope (talk) 08:58, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
OK, looking through Category:Australian snack foods, photos are needed for product Bertie Beetle, Cheezels, Chicos (candy), Lolly Gobble Bliss Bombs, Milo (drink), Minties, Nobby's (nuts), Parker's (pretzels), Polly Waffle, and Twisties. Kerry (talk) 10:43, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
More, ... Thins (crisps), Samboy (crisps), and products from Darrell Lea and The Natural Confectionery Company
I have none of these in the pantry. Aoziwe (talk) 14:38, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Plus, we need articles for Salada (biscuit), Vita-Weat, and Jatz ... always plenty to do on Wikipedia.
See Arnott's Biscuits which has a list of many said such most of which have no articles yet. I am up for giving a few of these a go over the next few weeks. Will post here which ones I will work on to avoid overlap. Aoziwe (talk) 14:38, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Wikibomb 2016[edit]

Some admins and others are currently exmaining content related to a wikibomb event of 2016 - but as always at these venues, they appear to not have thought about even mentioning the matter here.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Suspicious_article_creations_-_All_new_accounts_creating_pages_about_Australian_academics

If there are any wikipedians with any knowledge about the event/process, there is an opportunity to enlighten a group of what do not look like australian eds (apart from Kerry)... JarrahTree 09:06, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Sigh, while it is a good thing that folks want to organise edit-a-thons, it would be nice if they involved some experienced local Wikipedians. This South Australian event of yesterday seems to have caught all of us unaware. Folks, if you do ever hear of a possible or definite upcoming or ongoing Australian event of this nature, please draw attention to it here and to the attention of Wikimedia Australia. These events are always well-intended but involve large numbers of newbies and are usually organised by people who have little or no experience with Wikipedia either. Obviously it's in everyone's best interests if we can get some involvement of experienced Wikipedians in the both the planning of such events and in supporting the event on the day both in the room and online; there's obvious mutual benefit in making these events as successful as we can. Kerry (talk) 22:08, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

At the talk page of every Australian article in the template is a contact with WMAU chapter link - well worth keeping WMAU in the loop if you are aware of anything like that happening. Thanks. JarrahTree 23:33, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Good Article Reassessment of Adelaide Rams[edit]

Adelaide Rams, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:19, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Medalist?[edit]

I was wondering which way Australian English spells this word, "medalist" (1-L) or "medallist" (2-L's) ; I noticed that Category:Olympic medalists for Australia uses one, while Category:Olympic medallists for Great Britain uses two. -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 23:01, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

I though I'd look at what the ABC uses, and it turns out they use either spelling [1], or sometimes both in the same article [2] (even in the same sentence! "Silver medallist Matthew Mitcham of Australia, gold medallist Jack Laugher of England and bronze medalist Grant Nel of Australia pose during the medal ceremony for the Men's 1m Springboard.") - Evad37 [talk] 23:36, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
The 1988 reprint of the Macquarie Dictionary (1st edition) has "Medallist ... Also, Chiefly U.S., medalist." This is also what appears in the online version (except that it has US without dots). --Scott Davis Talk 01:32, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
Should the Australian Olympics categories uses two "L"'s? -- 65.94.171.217 (talk) 11:28, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Australia (Island)[edit]

Okay. So there is some silly cluster of stuff I found while searching around, and I want to make wikipedia more accurate, however I wanted a bit of consensus here before making changes all over the shop.

Firstly, Please keep in mind scientific accuracy for this post. I don't care what your personal beliefs are on the matter, simply the science, and why it is the way it is.

So here goes:

There are three different things all called Australia

  • The Country
  • The Landmass
  • The Continent

Unfortunately, all three of these are called the same thing, which can make differentiating them kind of confusing sometimes. It's why when Australia is cited as the worlds smallest continent, they sometimes use the size of the landmass, or the country, and only rarely the size of the continent itself. This has been mitigated recently by the addition of Australia_(continent) - which is very useful.

The point of the matter is - The Continent of Australia is completely separate to the Landmass of Australia. Hopefully we're all still in agreement by this point, and if you disagree with that, feel free to use the talk page on the previously linked continent page, but good luck defending why your idea of Australia (the continent) doesn't include all the things that are on the continental shelf that Australia (the landmass) inhabits (PS: It's called that for a reason).

So, now that we have that out of the way, let's use the definition of an Island. The agreed upon definition on Wikipedia (and a vast overwhelming majority of geographic/scientific journals) is "An island or isle is any piece of sub-continental land that is surrounded by water."

Now. Australia (The Landmass) is an Island.

I would like to make edits to a number of pages to make it so, as well as propose we start a new Australia_(Island) page OR make the Geography part of Australia clearer in this differentiation. I'm happy to put the work in for this, but would rather a consensus be reached before treading on peoples toes. The fact is pretty plain however: Australia (The Landmass) meets the criteria Wikipedia itself uses for an Island. Until that criteria changes on Wikipedia, changes should be made to reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BaneWilliams (talkcontribs) 09:25, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

As a tertiary source, wikipedia is based on independent secondary sources. If you want to make this distinction, you'll need sources which use it. Stuartyeates (talk) 09:45, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

second stuartyeates - all the fancy discourse means nothing unless there are specific WP:RS per the way that wikipedia works JarrahTree 10:25, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Yes, there are numerous sources for it. The problem is that the sources against it all stem from one guys blog that got to the top of google results, and has since been referenced as an authority elsewhere, including here on wikipedia. I mean, you can see sources that show the Australian continent includes the landmass of Australia and various other landmasses. The definition of Island is clear and source referenced. Do I need a source that strictly states Australia to be an Island, or is like citing a sky is blue source? We have the requisite sources and specifics setup elsewhere, with all definitions of the Australian continent including multiple landmasses, and the definition of islands being very clear. BaneWilliams (talk) 15:14, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Incorrect assumption - the way WP:RS are utilised is not necessarily an assumption for any editor to (a) use google as an effective check, or (b) to assume that blogs are necessarily utilised or accepted throughout wikipedia as WP:RS - too simplistic an uderstanding of how wikipedia can work JarrahTree 15:24, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the help. My assumption was that because the opposing view failed to meet WP:RS standards, it shouldn't be utilised, but it has been. Without that information on Wikipedia logically it would be obvious that this is the case. The sources used are either WP:RSSELF or WP:UGC where they are referencing said self published works. I will spend today finding an authoritative source I can easily attribute. BaneWilliams (talk) 00:08, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
We already have an article on this called Mainland Australia. It could have the properties of an island listed, but does not yet. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:08, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for this - I wasn't aware of that page at all since it's not referenced well. I will use this to add Island stuff to with sources, and then go on fixing up other things elsewhere. I appreciate this Graeme! BaneWilliams (talk) 15:11, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Mainland Australia is an article about the social, linguistic, psychological aspects that are used to distinguish or recognise some places have a disconnect from the main hence the name its not a geological formation just like the use use of east coast, southern states, tother staters, across the paddock and other such terms. It came about following a recent discussion here. Gnangarra 03:06, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
An island is not a geological object, instead it is the land above water. The geological concept corresponds more to the continent, the high parts on one tectonic plate. The island of Australia corresponds in its physical extent exactly to the concept of mainland. A strong case could be made to merge article with two names which are about different aspects of the same area of land. They both result because of the water separating the mainland from the rest of the islands and world. Anyway I am not supporting Australia (island) as a separate article until someone comes up with sources with significant content. Otherwise just merge it with Mainland Australia if there is verifiable content, but not significant writings. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:17, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
Here is the thing, we know Australia is an Island. There are over several hundred verifiable sources via Trove that state as much, compared to the 5 sources that don't (and only one of those sources is actually talking geologically, the others are talking culturally or economically in a poem and a Kevin Rudd speech). While I'm not entirely certain there is enough information to warrant a Australia (island) page necessarily, there is information to correct the errors existing on pages like Island and others. I also feel that considering the differentiation between the three different versions of "Australia" are so difficult to understand, that we need somewhere that builds upon this. I'm scouring some of these sources trying to find one that talks about it from an authoritative standpoint, rather than having to use a significant multitude of small sources. This will likely take days. BaneWilliams (talk) 14:33, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
The problem with the Mainland Australia article is that it defines the "mainland" as the states and territories that are not Tasmania or island territories. In particular, from a Tasmanian perspective, Kangaroo Island and Rottnest Island seem to be counted as "mainland Australia", but they are presumably not part of Australia (island). Certainly the South Australian government does not consider KI to be mainland.[3] --Scott Davis Talk 05:18, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Canberra August meetup invitation[edit]

I'll be in Canberra from the 29-30 August, there is a planned meet-up at King O'Malley's (though I'm open to suggestions) from 6pm on the 29 August. Sorry for the short noticed, only had the trip confirmed this afternoon. Bidgee (talk) 10:53, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Orange Sky - new article[edit]

Hi, I have drafted (what might become) my first article. Before I do any further work on it (inc filling refs) and hit the submit button for review, I am hoping some fellow editors here might take a brief look and advise whether it has a chance of passing. I'd rather abandon it now and go back to gnoming, than argue about its acceptance. Just thought I'd ask here first as some Aussie editors may be familiar with these blokes' story. (Unbelievably, whilst typing this, ABC in background started talking about their launch today of a new mobile shower van service. All a bit surreal really.) I am leaving some questions on the draft's talk page and welcome any input. Thanks JennyOz (talk) 05:47, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Looks good to me - that's a pretty unarguable amount of sources and it's well enough written. The Drover's Wife (talk) 06:06, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
If that is a first article, I can think of a lot of stubs on wikipedia in general that would never get to that standard in their whole history... well worth putting up - even some established editors never get their stubs to that standard. well done JarrahTree 12:44, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Jenny Oz Yours puts many other first articles and long standing articles to shame. I have added some comments for your consideration on the draft's talk page. Aoziwe (talk) 13:39, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you all for your kind words here and for input on the draft and its talk page. I do have to say though that it was relatively easy to write because the coverage was easy to find. Two years of only positive mentions made for sweet simplicity. I probably spent 80% of the time checking policies. Thanks, gotta love collaboration. JennyOz (talk) 03:54, 24 August 2016 (UTC)


It's an Honour[edit]

The venerable It's an Honour website has been moved to the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet website at http://www.dpmc.gov.au/government/its-honour

The site is very widely used as a reference on Wikipedia. The old links still seem to work for the moment, see example. The main problem I can see is that the content is displayed in a frame, and so there is no apparent address or ID that can be easily used to link directly to the entry for future use as a reference. --Canley (talk) 12:12, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Looks like the itsanhonour.gov.au domain is still being used and serving up the content, but it is just displayed in a DPMC wrapper for some reason. The best way to get a direct link for referencing is to do a search, then right-click on the result and open it in a new tab or window. --Canley (talk) 12:34, 23 August 2016 (UTC)