Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Thailand/Archive 3

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Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4

Constituency boundaries

Does anyone know where I can find maps of the electoral constituency boundaries? I have tried asking the Electoral Commission, but they seem to think the boundaries are a state secret and won't let me see them, even when I offered to come to their offices and copy them myself. I have seen older boundaries at several websites, but not the current ones. Any suggestions? Adam 08:07, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

The Election Commission provides the official list [1] at its web site, but I don't know about such maps being available. One could (though rather tediously) manually incorporate such information into existing maps, I suppose. Paul C 11:04, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
What they have is the list of amphoe for each electoral constituency. And it may be changed in each election due to population fluctuation. -- Lerdsuwa 14:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for those comments. Yes I have seen the list at the ECT website, and since Wikipedia provides very nice provincial maps showing the amphoe boundaries I could create a set of maps that way (except that in some constituencies the amphoe are themselves divided), but it would be a very big job. So I am still hoping that someone has or will put the maps on line. Adam 12:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Pantip.com

I have started a stub for Pantip.com, and almost immediately after I posted it, it was flagged for deletion. I was able to win a reprieve, but it now has a notability flag. I understand that Pantip.com is probably the largest Internet forum in Thailand. It is frequently referred to in the press (most recently in the case of Prince Jigme), however I need assistance to verify its notability. Any help from Thailand folks would be appreciated. -Wisekwai 18:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Wisekwai. User comments at the forums at Pantip.com have often been cited by the regular mainstream Thai press, both the english and thai publications. To me, that counts as notability. Patiwat 23:07, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Bangkok AID

Wikipedia:Article Improvement Drive is featuring the article Bangkok as a candidate for the Article improvement Drive. Vote if you wish! Felixboy 15:59, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Article titles: should Somdet, Phraya, Luang, and Ajahn be included?

My understanding is that honorifics should not be included in article titles. Thus Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom and not Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom; Bhumibol Adulyadej and not King Bhumibol Adulyadej or Prabat Somdet Phrachao Yuhua Bhumibol Adulyadej; Seni Pramoj and not Mom Ratchawongse Seni Pramoj. But some articles still include title in the article names, e.g., Phraya Phahol Pholphayuhasena (should be Phahol Pholphayuhasena), Phraya Manopakorn Nititada (should be Manopakorn Nititada), Ajahn Chah (should be Chah), and Somdet Kiaw (should be Kiaw). Are these 4 examples just incorrectly titled, or are they allowed exceptions to the rule? Patiwat 10:20, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Seeing as Phahol Pholphayuhasena isn't his name either, that wouldn't be right, as it'll just cut up the title into pieces. I believe the articles should be at Phot Phahonyothin, etc. though. Paul C 19:54, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
For Thai people of the 20th century it's relatively easy, as everyone have a civil name. However in the past many of the names were titles given with the position in administration, preceded by its rank. Ajahn Chah is a different case - it's maybe comparable with Mother Theresa, as Ajahn means "Teacher". While it's not the actual name of this monk, it is the name he is best known with. andy 20:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Help needed on 2006 Southeast Asian haze

Hello! A number of people are working on the page. However, due to the composition of the participants, there is concern that the page is skewed towards Malaysia and Singapore. It would be great if Wikipedians from Thailand could expand the section on Thailand, thus making the article more balanced. Thanks! -Wisekwai 08:43, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

From the talk page

Frustration

I've been here for a little while now and have been spending some time on Thai articles and only found this noticeboard today. By chance.

I'm wondering if somebody could point to me any other pages that I should be aware of?

I have already commented on the 'Thai manual of style' (not called that I know, but the proper name escapes me for the moment) but I'm not sure I'm aware of anything else that may be relevant.

KayEss 18:06, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I've now put a pointer on Talk:Thailand and Wikipedia:Wikipedians/Thailand, hopefully that will help someone browsing through the WP finding here. Also we should make it common practice that if anyone notices a new contributor working on Thai topics (or coming from TH), then adding an invitation on that user's talk page. andy 22:39, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Improvement drive for SEA

The article History of Southeast Asia is currently a candidate for Wikipedia:Article Improvement Drive. You can support the nomination with your vote there. __earth (Talk) 17:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Military History task force

I am trying to establish a "Far East task force," sub-section of the Military history WikiProject. If you're already working on military history articles, then all you need to do is offer your support and add your name to a list of task force members. You're already doing the task force's work; we don't ask much more than that. The link to my task force proposal is here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history#Far_East_Task_Force_Proposal. Thank you. LordAmeth 15:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Standard naming scheme

Please see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Regional notice boards#A uniform naming scheme. Zocky | picture popups 00:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Articles needing work

  • Bang Rajan - i wrote this article quite a while ago but never got round to asking for some help from Thai users. Im not sure if there is a corresponding article on the Thai language wikipedia but if so could somebody interwiki-link the two? Also if anyone has some decent photos which might be added id be delighted as the one there now leaves a lot to be desired. siarach 10:03, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
  • List of ethnic groups in Thailand - I was able to find 28 ethnic groups but wonder if anyone can come up with more. (There are probably at least a dozen other very small ethnic groups up north, some of which are listed in Ethnologue.) Badagnani 09:43, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Requesting peer review

  • Sang Phathanothai - I wrote this article but I think some additional people should check on it and correct any errors. Anagnorisis 23:30, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Bangkok should be reviewd to see how this article can be brought up to good or featured article status. Felixboy 16:02, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Currently under discussion

  • User:Gryffindor would like to revive the discussion on naming of articles about Thai royalty. Would it be possible to find something to agree on this time? Paul_012 (talk) 05:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Information requests

Geography

  • Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Thai provinces - does anyone have information about the provincial flags, both description of the meaning of the colors and a higher resolution image than those accessible on the web. Especially a book source would be great. andy 19:32, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • While preparing the Amphoe maps for Krabi Province I can across two different location of boundaries between Amphoe Lam Thap and Amphoe Khlong Thom. It seems like Lam Thap was enlarged a bit in its northwestern part. Can anyone confirm it, and maybe even give a date for this boundary change? andy 12:07, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Biography

Birthdates needed

General information

  • The Impossibles (Thai band) - looking for more general information, particularly about full roster of musicians during the band's heyday. Images (preferably not album covers) would be nice as well. --Wisekwai 18:16, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Hem Vejakorn - Looking for information about his later life, exact date and location of death and generally more about his influence on Thai contemporary art and pop art. --Wisekwai 15:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Caravan (Thai band)' - Article has been started, but needs expansion. – WiseKwai | Talk | Contribs 12:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Eua Sunthornsanan - Need his date of death and Thai script name. Any other information about this big band leader would be helpful.
  • Por Intharapalit - Looking for more information about this Thai writer, including birthdate, place of birth and Thai-script. — WiseKwai 20:53, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Seri Wangnaitham - New biography and a recent death. Needs Thai name.WiseKwai 14:04, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Suwat Woradilok - New biography, recent death. Needs Thai name and whatever other information can be provided. — WiseKwai 20:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Pensri Poomchoosri - New biography, recent death. Needs Thai name and whatever other information can be provided. — WiseKwai 20:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Sakorn Yang-keawsot - New biography and a recent death. Need help with Thai name, expansion. — WiseKwai 12:03, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Euthana Mukdasanit - New biography; need help with Thai name, birthdate and possible expansion. — WiseKwai 07:00, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Pongpat Wachirabunjong - New biography; could use more info about his music career and lakorn roles. — WiseKwai 03:31, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Translation

Requested articles

  • I'd like someone to write an article about the Law on Succession. I can provide/translate the related article if needed. For example,
  • The current Thai Constitution
http://www.parliament.go.th/files/library/b05-b.htm
Section 20 to 22 in Chapter 2 (The King) provide some guideline on the heir to the throne.
  • Law on Succession B.E. 2647 (in Thai)
http://www.kodmhai.com/m4/m4-1/H117/H-117.html
This law forbids a princess to inherit the throne.
According to the above Thai Constitution, if the King names his successor (which he MUST follow the Law on Succession B.E. 2647 which forbids a princess to inherit the throne) then the named prince will inherit the throne. However, if the King does not name his successor, the privy council will submit the name of the successor to the National Assembly and ask for approval. In this case (when the King does not name his successor) the privy council may submit a name of a princess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhanakorn (talkcontribs) 23:29, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Requested images

  • Free-use photos of living Thai royalty, artists, celebrities, sportspeople, politicians, etc. are needed to illustrate articles about them. There is a new policy regarding the use of copyrighted photos, such as promophotos, on articles about living people. The policy is that such photos are not fair use. Eventually, they will likely be tagged with {{Replaceable fair use disputed}}. Free-use replacements must be found immediately or most articles about living people will have no images. More about this new policy can be found at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fair use#Replaceable fair use. -Wisekwai 06:10, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Musical artists and groups

Free-use images are needed for the following:

"Projet Thaïlande" on French Wikipedia

Hi. You might be interested to know that I have just launched a 'Thailand' project on the French Wikipedia. Feel free to visit and snoop around — even if you don't speak French. Any idea and suggestion will be more than welcome. Take care.
Oxag (discuss) 08:52, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

New Thailand-bio-stub

After the mandatory seven-day waiting period on the WikiProject stub sorting, I am happy to report that I have created {{Thailand-bio-stub}}, which I'm in the process of adding to and changing any {{Thailand-stub}} that's about a Thai person. I think I'm up to around the letter "K". In doing so, I've found many stubs, particularly about Thai sportspeople (especially Thai Olympic athletes), that weren't designated as stubs at all, nor were they listed on the List of Thailand-related topics, so I'm in the process of adding those names as well. Wisekwai 09:58, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Portal:Thailand

I have started the portal, and filled it with some preliminary content. Please all join to help there, for example suggesting articles and pictures to be featured there. andy 18:59, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Are Thai government photos in the public domain?

US Government photos are in the public domain and can be used on Wikipedia. Are Royal Thai Government photos also in the public domain? I'd like to use some official portraits in several autobiographical articles in Wikipedia, e.g., Jaruvan Maintaka, Somkid Jatusripitak. Patiwat 21:50, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

On the legal status of government photos, I can't answer the question. I'm hoping somebody can. If the images were provided for general publicity, like for a press release, they could fall under the {{Publicity}} license, which you could use until the legality of Thai government photos can be answered. When you load the photos, offer as much information as you can give about where the photos came from and what article or articles they are intended for. Hopefully, that will keep the copyright watchers from deleting your images. Wisekwai 03:17, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Government works are copyrighted. See มาตรา ๑๔ พระราชบัญญัติลิขสิทธิ์ พ.ศ. ๒๕๓๗ -- Lerdsuwa 04:27, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
There's also {{promophoto}}, but it's pretty restrictive, like {{Publicity}}, in that it only allows use of the images on English-language Wikipedia. Maybe someone else could suggest another license? Wisekwai 07:50, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Several photos have been added to the article on the King which are extremely questionable. I believe the photos are from the Sarit-era, where propaganda photos of the King going on rural inspection tours were widely distributed among the public. But just because the photos were widely distributed doesn't mean they were freely licensed and can be used on Wikipedia. It would make me horribly unpopular to delete these photos from that article, so could somebody make any suggestions? Patiwat 05:38, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Could anybody take a look at Article 7 and Article 14 of the Copyright Law of 2537 (wikisource:th:พระราชบัญญัติลิขสิทธิ์ พ.ศ. ๒๕๓๗#มาตรา ๗)? Article 7 seems to state that state publications are not covered by copyright, i.e., they are public domain. But Article 14 seems to state that any state agency has a copyright over any work that it has created. I aint a lawyer and the two articles seem to be contradictory. Patiwat 21:49, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

As mentioned in the Article 7, things that are not copyrighted includes current news, government announcment, and something like those. --Manop - TH 10:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Would photographs and other creative works on government websites be considered public domain as well? Patiwat 20:13, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I am seeking a definitive answer about the use of images from the Bureau of the Royal Household: Can they be uploaded to the Wikimedia Commons under the Creative Commons license? Right now I'm looking at the Crown prince now King of Bhutan and a whole gallery of images from the 60th anniversary of accession. If these images could be made available on the Commons, they would be a great resource. — WiseKwai 19:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Never mind about those images from the 60th anniversary. I see now that they are licensed for non-commercial use and are thus ineligible for migration to the Commons. Still, there was some confusion above about about whether works from state publications are public domain. I'm wondering if this can be cleared up? — WiseKwai 04:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Cat sorting Thai names

Quite often I'll come across categories on articles about Thai people in which the sorting workaround has been applied (most recently on Cherd Songsri as Songsri, Cherd). Usually I just quietly change it back, but it's a pretty common minor problem. Having lived and worked in Thailand now for five years, I understand that's they way it is, that no sorting workaround is needed and that people are referred to by their given name (not their family name) and should probably be sorted as such. But I'm at a loss to explain why or point other Wikipedians to a written policy. Can anyone help clarify? Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe the sorting workaround is needed on the English-language Wikipedia? - Wisekwai 22:14, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not needed, for exactly the reasons you give. HenryFlower 22:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
The only problem is that most people don't know it, thus they think that workaround was forgotten and add it again. I usually add a HTML comment after the category saying something like "yes, no sorting tweak". andy 07:40, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
In de: we add a reminder template into the article so that people who are unaware of this custom have a chance to know. --media_lib 02:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Piping Thai names

What follows is a response from an editor whom I ran into while doing some edits on Thai categories, and I had to explain that there's no need for the sorting tweek in Thai bio categories (I pointed him to Category:Thai people):-Wisekwai 05:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

_ _ I think it's important for me to distinguish between the facts of Thai practice with names (your account of which i didn't mean to question) and the question of what WP should do with Thai names in (at least) these situations, which are potentially all different:

  • piping Cats
  • titling bio articles
  • LoPbN entries (where, in my incessantly expressed and acted-upon opinion, it's a good thing to have multiple entries to assist people who are following conventions that are not the most common -- because either the most common convention is wrong, or it's correct but ignorance of it is widespread)
  • subsequent references (in articles of all kinds).

Let me clarify & discuss for a moment the subsequent-reference case (tho IMO it's not controversial in this case, it illustrates some principles):

_ _ With names of Americans, Britons, Canadians, and Anzacs, of European ethnic background, who are known predominantly by the given and sur-names they were born with, we have a clear policy (probably without exceptions other than where there's no issue of confusing them with someone who's also mentioned in the article and shares the surname) for what happens after using, once, a "full" form of their name (e.g., John Kennedy, John F. Kennedy, or John Fitzgerald Kennedy): we then refer to them using "he", "she", or just their surname. (I'm vague abt the New York Times' current standard; i can recall the time when they went from using titles in all subsequent refs -- Mr. Wales, Dr. Kissinger, Pres. Lincoln -- to denying organized crime figures any title, e.g. (hypothetically) "...but District Attorney Morgenthau said that Gotti's claims were a bluff...". Or maybe those who were testifying against the mob started getting "Mr." when their deal was announced.)
_ _ Thus many fan-written articles, that imitate press releases and fan behavior by calling the subject by first name or even nickname, need correction. (When i'm in the right mood, i've summarized "not your buddy" when fixing them.) Your answers satisfy me that that error is not involved (as i speculated in the back of my mind; it's not usually a high priority for me) in the subsequent references to "Petchara" in Petchara Chaowarat: IMO that is probably correct -- tho on that assumption, i'd rather have the second reference read something like
Petchara (referring to her by that given name is Thai custom, since a Thai second name -- "Chaowarat", in her case -- is not, in contrast to European and East-Asian surnames, used without the corresponding given name)
probably with a lk to our best treatment of Thai naming (perhaps a section of a reorganized Family name, or of an article (to be lk'd from that one) about alternatives to family names?)

My point is that different situations deserve different answers to the question "which name or names, in which order?". A crucial factor for titles is that Rdrs can supplement the title, and within articles, that there's room for nuancing language such as i suggest just above; IMO the LoPbN answer is "the full name, and in all orders likely to be tried by users". A Sandbox experiment suggests that all but the last tag for a given Cat are ignored, so (for now, and there are arguments against changing that) the answer for Cats has to include "only one order", and IMO that one has to be the one most often used by our (English-speaking, including ESL) users. IMO the main question is whether the answer is the same for, e.g., Thai actors whose films are released

only in Thai,
also with English subtitles, and
also dubbed into English.

It's quite plausible to argue that bios for at least the first group will be very seldom sought by users who won't anticipate using Thai naming conventions for alphabetizing.
--Jerzyt 02:11, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Historical context of articles after the coup

Several articles will go through a contextual crisis in the aftermath of the 2006 Thailand coup. The junta has promised a new Constitution, which implies a different form of government with different institutions. If you take the junta's word for it, the deficiencies of the 1997 People's Constitution (No. XVI) were so significant that major changes will need to occur in Constitution XVII.

With that being said, after Constitution XVII comes out, should general articles like Thailand, Politics of Thailand, etc. still retain any information about the forms and institutions of the government based on the 1997 Constitution? If not, should the content just be deleted? Or should it be moved to a different article? Or should information about the Constitution XVI, XV, XIV, ... governments be mentioned as well?

p.s., These questions also apply for the the List of political parties in Thailand article, the National Assembly of Thailand article, and a couple of others as well. Patiwat 06:35, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Panyathai, another Thai web-based encyclopedia

FYI, there is another Thai-based encyclopedia just announced today, Panyathai. I still don't know how the thing works, but it's on the press this morning. Anyway, I'm still a big fan of Wikipedia. Wikipedia rocks. --Manop - TH 08:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

The English content is all public relation material for the Royal Projects. It'll be interesting to see if it really will operate like Wikipedia. Do users have to register with their real names and give their national ID number, or can folks contribute under aliases? — WiseKwai 09:45, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Help with translations

I'm currently working on a script intended to create short articles on political parties on a variety of wikipedias simultaneously. However, in order for the technique to work I need help with translations to various languages. If you know any of the languages listed at User:Soman/Lang-Help , then please help by filling in the blanks. For example I need help with Thai. Thanks, --Soman 12:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

DYK

The DYK section featured on the main page is always looking for interesting new and recently expanded stubs from different parts of the world. Please make a suggestion.--Peta 02:11, 10 October 2006 (UTC)