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viewtalkeditchanges

GAN review spree[edit]

Hey all, bringing up a point of concern- yesterday TheSandDoctor went through and reviewed 7 GANs (Knuckles' Chaotix, Clock Tower (series), Clock Tower II: The Struggle Within, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, Wave Race 64, and MegaTraveller 1: The Zhodani Conspiracy). Which would be great, except... all of them have no or minimal comments. I'm tempted to unilaterally revert all of these promotions given that there's no evidence that a proper we review was done, but wanted to bring it up here first at least. --PresN 20:16, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I was wondering about this too. Knuckles Chaotix is on my watchlist, and I noticed that there was a review with virtually no prose present, just the pass/fails. I didn't make a stink about it, since I think the article is GA level or pretty close, but I can understand your concerns. Sergecross73 msg me 20:22, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
I'd revert. Just looking at Clock Tower II, it is in a state where I would not have passed it. Some comments should surely have been raised about the complete lack of a development section. --ProtoDrake (talk) 20:25, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
This is why I declined them reviewing Throne of Fire because of how malformed the review for Clock Tower II was. GamerPro64 20:41, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
I'd revert the Clock Tower review. I hadn't looked at the others besides Chaotix; I think that KC meets GA though. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 21:49, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
Yea, I was not satisfied with the reviews on either of my nominations (Clock Tower II and Clock Tower (series)) and wouldn't mind them being reverted and placed back into the queue. TarkusABtalk 04:28, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
  • If anyone has concerns with Wave Race 64, which was nominated by me, feel free to revert/reassess it. I wouldn't mind going through the GAN process again. --Niwi3 (talk) 22:23, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
  • Now that these concerns have been duly aired, might I suggest that we give @TheSandDoctor a chance to revisit the reviews with added depth or at least a chance to respond before we proceed with reverts? I'd rather see TSD coached, if possible, to the standard we've come to expect from reviews than to see him discouraged and not participate further. czar 02:40, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Indeed. He's been pinged multiple times now. Does he have any thoughts on this? Sergecross73 msg me 02:48, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
@PresN: @Czar: @TheJoebro64: @Sergecross73: My apologies for not responding sooner as I was at work throughout this discussion and just got home now.
I realize now that doing the amount of reviews I did within the time frame would cause concern. I assure you that I did read through the articles and devote most of my spare time to reviewing them against the criteria as I wanted to help clear the queue. I just tend to get on a roll and am typically productive with my time. In response the the not having any comments concern, I did not see the need to post any in most cases as I reviewed the criteria and, in my opinion, the articles in question did satisfy the criteria. If I had known that not adding comments would have been an issue for concern, I would have commented on them each, for that I am sorry. I am also sorry to have caused concern to you and apologize for that. With that said, I am planning to step away from reviewing GA nominations for the time being but I am definitely open to changing my mind (am open to coaching). If it would be satisfactory to the editors in this discussion, I would happily go back through the nominations and add comments etc over the next few days. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 05:31, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
@TheSandDoctor, reviewers typically add at least a paragraph's worth of commentary on confusing/problem areas, specific suggestions, expansion ideas, etc. (see other recent GA reviews, particularly those in WPVG). It isn't necessary, but it helps give the impression that the review was thorough by showing some of the reviewer's thought process. In the above cases, it looks like the extra commentary would be appreciated, especially when easing into the reviewing role czar 05:39, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the ping Czar, would you think it to be okay if I went through the reviews and added more comments etc over the next few days? Would that help to ease the concerns raised? I will not start any new reviews unless advised to or I have learned more/more time has passed. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 05:48, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
@TheSandDoctor, I think that's a great idea, and everyone above can chip in here (or on the review pages) if they think the reviews need anything in particular. WP's social norms are rarely transparent, so feel welcome to throw any questions you have to the group czar 06:05, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
@Czar: I have started to expand the reviews, so far I have expanded: Knuckles' Chaotix, Clock Tower (series), Clock Tower II: The Struggle Within, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege. I plan to further expand the ones I have worked on so far and do the others as well (but don't have time at the moment). What do you think of the expansions I have done so far? --TheSandDoctor (talk) 20:01, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
I am still far from satisfied with the quality of these reviews. At this point, I'd like to demote and re-nominate when I'm ready. Can someone help me demote Clock Tower II and Clock Tower (series)? I don't know how to go about doing that. TarkusABtalk 18:57, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @TheSandDoctor, I made a looooong reply early in the week and apparently it never posted... It looks like you expanded mainly on how the article fits the GA criteria, which is good but redundant to the template. The review should go above the criteria (at your own discretion) to cover points from the WPVG guidelines or MOS that the nom might have missed. See Wikipedia:Good articles/Video games and Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Good content for examples of recent reviews—most recently Talk:Night Trap/GA1, which spends little time on the criteria per se but elaborates on specific nuances. (The GA criteria is designed as a minimal competency bar of quality. If there are no major issues, there should be no reason to challenge a GA review. This said, experienced writers typically view the GAN as one of few times to get detailed feedback, hence why editors above want more line-edit-level comments.) For example, you mention that Clock Tower II could use development history. I'd consider that a failure on breadth, especially as the Clock Tower series article has a whole paragraph on its development history... (Give the nom a week to fix it.) In Knuckles, the plot has as much weight as the entire gameplay section. I'd consider that weight undue. It's also a good example of why the instruction manual is a subpar source, as it gives license to add undue detail whereas a secondary source (e.g., a review) naturally limits the article's scope by space constraints: the publication only publishes the most important details, whether about the plot or the gameplay elements. Similarly, I'd challenge statements like `The "rubber band" multiplayer mechanic was largely panned despite being acknowledged as an effort to innovate.` and `Negative attention was brought to the game's level design and low difficulty.` and `The gameplay received mixed reviews.` as generalized statements without direct refs. I'd recommend condensing or footnoting statements such as `The group appears in Sonic Heroes (2003),[54] Shadow the Hedgehog (2005),[55] Sonic Rivals 2 (2007),[56] the Nintendo DS version of Sonic Colors (2010), Sonic Generations,[57] and Sonic Forces (2017);[58]` to be better digested by a general reader. Similarly, the list of "top list" appearances in Wave Race 64 could be culled to a single sentence with fewer numbers. If the placement in the list matters, saying it was at the top/bottom of the list is more descriptive than "#33 of 100" (when what does the ranking mean in that case anyway, other than that it was included. I'd also footnote its Japanese name, other suggestions from WP:VGG, yadda yadda. These points are all surmountable, but I think it's what the noms above want. For anyone else reading, though, I think it is worth reiterating that the reviewer isn't necessarily obligated to provide extra detail unless their decision-making or credibility vis-a-vis the GA criteria is in play. It's more of a courtesy. czar 03:34, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for that information. I will redo one of the reviews with this in mind and, if it is satisfactory, do similar with the others Czar. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 18:19, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
I have restarted with Clock Tower II: The Struggle Within per the recommendations above and have restored the nomination template on its talk page and also removed {{good article}} from the article page itself per the request of TarkusAB. I invite anyone who wishes to to weigh in on the review and assist should they please. I want to do this right and correct the mistakes made previously. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 18:30, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
I have failed Clock Tower II: The Struggle Within per the request of the nominator (TarkusAB) on the review page. I have now restarted the review of Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege, but the nominator is away on "vacation" (their quotes, not mine) until August 8th, which I am happy to wait for. Czar In the case of Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege, would it be allowable to have the "on hold" status stand for more than one week due to the fact that they are away during that time and have made it known? --TheSandDoctor (talk) 04:32, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
@TheSandDoctor, absolutely. You just don't want it to go on for weeks/months with no activity. (Also, in general, it's hard for the WP taskmasters to complain whenever the intent is reasonable and clearly to make the encyclopedia better.) czar 04:43, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
  • Before this discussion times out, I wanted to make sure that I didn't stifle anyone's original concerns. (PresNSergecross73ProtoDrakeGamerPro64TheJoebro64Niwi3TarkusAB), any issues left unaddressed? Not all of the reviews were updated with line/specific edits, but I'm not concerned about that practice personally. czar 05:09, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
  • No concerns. TarkusABtalk 11:52, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
  • No concerns. My only real concern originally was whether or not they were truly reviewed, due to the brevity of the notes. The ones on my watchlist, like Knuckles Chaotix, I did feel were more or less GA level regardless of process. Sergecross73 msg me 14:03, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
  • No concerns worth mentioning. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:14, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
  • No concerns from my side, otherwise I wouldn't nominate it in the first place. If the reviewer believes the article meets the GA criteria, then I believe him. I also want to note that I appreciate TarkusAB's spell checks. --Niwi3 (talk) 18:48, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
@Czar: I have started the re-reviews of The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker and Wave Race 64. My apologies for the delay, I was tied up with the GA review of my nomination, Video game walkthrough (which passed Face-grin.svg). Also, did you mean to say that you were not concerned with the origin of this thread or? --TheSandDoctor (talk) 00:47, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
Was only checking that the original concerns were addressed. My extra comment was that I don't personally think GA reviews need line edits and grammatical suggestions. It's reasonable, though, to expect the reviewer to find at least a handful of typos in a long article en route to checking against the GA criteria ("spelling and grammar are correct"). But it's also reasonable to be a GA reviewer and not a copyeditor. czar 04:06, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification Czar, that is something that I did (typos) in all but 3, most likely not in those as I did not see any typos at the time, but I will do so in every article possible that I do a GA review on. Wave Race 64 has passed the re-review and I am awaiting a response to The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. After that I am just waiting for Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege's nominator to return from vacation (which will be today most likely). Once those are completed, I just have Clock Tower (series) and MegaTraveller 1: The Zhodani Conspiracy left to re-review. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 16:16, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
@TheSandDoctor: Someone else already re-reviewed and passed Clock Tower (series), but if you want to provide some additional comments I'm all ears. TarkusABtalk 20:13, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
@TarkusAB: Oh, I thought that it hadn't been, my bad. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 20:15, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Czar: The reviews for both Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege and The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker have been completed. I will re-review MegaTraveller 1: The Zhodani Conspiracy as soon as I get the time. My main concern is that the nominator is no longer active and the article's edit history does not contain anything past when I originally approved it. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 16:50, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'd treat the IP as any other user. (If they don't respond, it's the same as a registered editor not responding. See also Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations/FAQ#IP) czar 18:00, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

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Salavat (talk) 05:49, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

ESRB[edit]

Why is it that Wikipedia doesn't add their ratings to articles? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:374A:8F70:450B:826:8EF5:F3A1 (talk) 20:49, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Discussion brought up from the help desk. The concern in question was whether it's okay to include any rating, not just ESRB, but also PEGI, CERO, etc. In fact, Sergecross73, who I pinged in my last revision but won't in this, mentioned a specific guideline/rationale, but even I don't know what it is. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 21:29, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
I've also seen it written down somewhere, but can't find it anymore. And even if it never was and we are all mistaken, it's a common enough practice not to include the ratings, unless considered notable and covered by reliable sources, that there should be a clear guideline for this. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:32, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
Same. Usually I can link to just about any policy/guideline/discussion, but this one is escaping me. All I know is that the consensus is not to include it. Perhaps another person can help? I asked at WT:VG/GL too. Sergecross73 msg me 21:38, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
Template_talk:Infobox_video_game/Archive_11#Propose_removal_of_ratings_section.. Not sure if there were others. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 22:17, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
If they gain coverage by secondary reliable sources, which has happened in many cases, it should be fine to include. However there is a standing consensus to remove Ratings from the infobox. How that meshes with a general inclusion of ratings in the article prose, simply sourced to the rating board..... I don't know. I'm feeling neutral on this, it doesn't seem to me that it would hurt to include ratings in say, the development section. -- ferret (talk) 21:42, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
You mean for notable cases only, right? We shouldn't be adding that a game is rated E by the ESRB, 7 by PEGI, and A by CERO in every single article, unless remarked upon by reliable sources. If this absolutely must be documented, there is a parameter for this over at Wikidata instead. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:50, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
Yes, this was my understanding of how to handle it. Sergecross73 msg me 01:33, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
I agree with that assessment. The ratings should only be mentioned if they generate significant coverage such as Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas which was rerated as AO after the Hot Coffee mod was discovered meaning that major retailers pulled the game until a fixed up version was released. Anither example would be Manhunt 2 in which a censored version had to be created since the original version was rated AO which would have prevented the game from being sold by any major retailer.--76.65.43.125 (talk) 04:14, 3 August 2017 (UTC)
I honestly don't see the harm with including the age rating on an article about a game as long as it has a reliable source beside it so it can be easily verifiable. The majority of other Wikipedia projects includes the rating(s) that are applicable to their respective region (i.e. German Wikipedia only has USK/PEGI in their infobox while Japanese Wikipedia has CERO). For English Wikipedia I think just including ratings from ESRB, PEGI, ACB and OFLC along with a reliable source would suffice. For me this was never a big enough issue to bring up but since the discussion is here I thought I just input my own thoughts on the matter. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 15:07, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
Another point is that many self-published games self-assess themselves. Like stuff on Google Play or App Store doesn't have to do any formal application for rating. There are no reliable sources to cover this. In fact, there are no reliable sources to confirm the ratings for almost all games. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 15:42, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
It is very easy to confirm at least the American and European ratings due to ESRB and PEGI's websites (and I believe the Japanese CERO ratings are listed on Famitsu), but if no reliable third-party sources report on it, it probably isn't notable. In Zero Time Dilemma we mention the game's CERO rating, because we have sourced information about how it relates to the game's development, but that's not a typical situation.--IDVtalk 16:17, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
Well, yes, but that's not a secondary source. Same way we can confirm lots of data that we don't include from system specs to retail prices to install size to whatever else. Unless secondary sources routinely report it, it's not for us to decide to include. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 18:33, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
Yes, that was my point - that particular part of my message was in response to there are no reliable sources to confirm the ratings for almost all games.--IDVtalk 19:06, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
By "all games" I was referring to my previous "self-published games [that] self-assess themselves" (i.e. almost all mobile games). These are not listed on the raters' websites. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 20:03, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

So your telling me "the newbie" that you can't find the place where it says not to include the rating, but that it's just common sense? Ramesty (talk) 17:48, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

What would be the benefit of adding ratings? I consider age ratings to be a bit WP:CATALOG material, for parents to look up if the game's okay for their kids. Mentioning ratings without context would be unnecessary, why is the one game appropriate for all ages and is the next one 18+? Having to explain that is trivial information. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 17:56, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
I think part of the IP's (Ramesty's) hang up is that I/we couldn't initially find where it said not to add ratings. I imagine they haven't read the entire discussion though, considering HellKnowz above eventually found it. (It's here.) Sergecross73 msg me 18:07, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
To be fair I don't see how having a rating listed in the infobox with a proper source (max 3 ESRB/PEGI/ACB) is WP:CATALOG when we have an article like this (PS4 models) which to me does seem more like WP:CATALOG material. I also consider the available bundles column on PlayStation 3 models which is listing every retail configuration possible with these systems. To me having an article listing five different configurations of a Destiny bundle is very WP:CATALOG. In regards to retail configurations using PS4 as an example the 20th Anniversary PS4 model is notable however pack in games with a regular console or different color variants that are mass produced are not. If Wikipedia is going to have a page listing every different variation of every PS4 model or a column on the PS3 model page listing every pack in that comes with a system then Wikipedia can include up to 3 game ratings in an infobox. Just so it doesn't seem like I am poking at the PlayStation articles I also think this list of all the US pricing for Xbox 360 goes against WP:CATALOG. Out of the seventh and eighth generations only the Wii doesn't have this kind of info and it is FA. So as far as these issues exist a simple sourced rating in an infobox isn't WP:CATALOG material to me. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 19:06, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
This argument fails WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS unless we've had any particular discussions on whether or not those articles about system models should exist or not. I'm not sure we should be having those articles. Sergecross73 msg me 19:18, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
Then why stop there? Why not add prices and the catalog number as well? I'm 100% against the inclusion of ratings unless independently notable and discussed by reliable sources, such as the Hot Coffee mod getting GTA:SA re-rated to AO. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:19, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) It's a little odd to say "This isn't WP:CATALOG, because there are much worse examples". It's still WP:CATALOG content, if a minor example. Your comments are akin to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. I'd gladly support trimming the PS4 and Xbox articles you've mentioned. Articles aren't perfect, we can find plenty of bad examples. We shouldn't use them to argue for more. -- ferret (talk) 19:20, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Ok, honestly I'm not concerned about the rating or adding it. i just know the game is done because they rated it. Ramesty (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:14, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Why have you asked/pestered people about this in at least three different venues now if you're "not even that concerned"? Sergecross73 msg me 19:18, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

I originally came here to find verification on the game's rating. When I couldn't find it, I tried the help desk, then all of this arose. The reason why I want to find the game's rating out is because I knew if it was rated, the game was done being programmed. I go to Wikipedia for a lot of things, usually to find info. That's all. Ramesty (talk) 19:38, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Simply put, this is inaccurate. Games are often rated based on preview copies and further changes are made between the time a rating is issued and a gold copy is cut for release. Rating is no indication that a game is complete, at gold copy, or even if it will be released, as it could still end up cancelled. -- ferret (talk) 19:40, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I didn't make myself clear and that was my fault I can see how you would take it as I was just throwing examples out to justify including the ratings for that I am sorry. My point was after reading the policy on WP:NOT and WP:CATALOG my understanding is including a game's rating with a verifiable, reliable source is not against this policy. My pet peeve that I have seen in various discussions is editors throw out a guideline or policy and then doesn't make it clear as to "why x violates y policy" I just didn't want to keep seeing it violates WP:CATALOG so it can't be included without a proper reason. There are times when I read something it may not become clear to me until it is properly explained. I was using those as examples because they blatantly violate said policy but yet they are okay when something as minuscule as a rating is being debated. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 19:44, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
Back on topic anyway aside from my understanding of WP:CATALOG which at this time I don't see how ratings violate the policy. A good amount of articles with cover art has some form of a rating on them such as an outdated BBFC rating or an ESRB rating. To me it would be beneficial if someone sees that cover art and sees that particular rating and wants to know more about it if there was a link to the respective page of the rating. An example of what I am talking about can be found at Legacy of Kain: Defiance where the cover art has the ESRB rating so why not have it Wiki linked in the infobox. And @Ferret: I defiantly agree with what you just said just because it gets a rating doesn't mean the game is done or will be released. There have been examples of that in the past. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 19:44, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
Ideally, we would be using the promotional art without any indication of platform or rating, but that isn't the case normally. And per my above post, why stop there? Should we add the MSRP and catalog numbers for the same reasons? If you really want to document ratings, there is a parameter over at Wikidata that handles this. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:52, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
I already mentioned above this wasn't that big of an issue for me I was just making my position on it known. I don't think we should have MSRP or catalog numbers in articles. I actually never used Wikidata before so I had no clue that information was there mainly because English Wikipedia didn't have that information in all articles. Until this was brought up I had no clue other languages of Wikipedia did include that information. So in that regards for pointing out Wikidata I thank you it will be come useful in the future to me. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 20:07, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Not to mention updates (I'm talking to the ferret guy) Ramesty (talk) 19:53, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

@Ramesty: You can't remove comments you don't like, a ton of people watch this page and it will always be seen, you know. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:03, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

I honestly wouldn't know what to remove, so you can remove whatever you think is neccesary (or u can tell me and I can remove it). Ramesty (talk) 20:20, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

@Ramesty: What he was referring to was when you made your comment prior to this one you accidentally deleted one of his replies which was to one of my responses. Click here to see the deleted comment he is referring to just try to be a bit more careful next time and not remove any comments. If you are talking to an editor specifically like ferret you can always start your comment out by pinging that editor. Just type {{ping|Example}} before your comment just change Example to the username of the editor you are directly talking to. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 20:27, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Sorry about that, the computer wouldn't work right. Ramesty (talk) 15:10, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

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Salavat (talk) 10:34, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

  • @JimmyBlackwing: Do you think there are sources sufficient to cover all of the games in the Jane's series of games with one article per game, or would they be better covered in articles on the series? --Izno (talk) 14:42, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
  • Honestly, the Jane's series was probably the best-covered flight sim series of its time, barring possibly Microsoft Flight Simulator. Jane's games were common cover stories and frequent game of the year winners/contenders—plenty of development and reception material. It's sad to see their articles in such a state, really, because there's a lot that could be done with them if people were interested. All of our current flight sim FAs were made with much less. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 15:56, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

"Third-person shooter" as a game genre[edit]

Hello, fellow editors! I think we should remove "third-person shooter" from video game articles specially from early GTA articles, because it is not a game genre but a perspective in which we can shoot. Opinions regarding this matter. Thanks! ☺ - Pure conSouls (talk) 17:57, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

  • because it is not a game genre - But it is. Third-person shooter is a well-defined subgenre that reliable sources frequently use it as a genre to describe games: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10]. It shouldn't be removed off articles if reliable sources describe these games as that. --The1337gamer (talk) 18:08, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
    • It would be interesting to look at recent articles about PlayerUnknown's Battleground in which a recent patch included strictly first-person servers rather than the default (but ability to switch in-game) third-person. I think it is fair to say that TPS is a distinct genre from FPS though they do overlap as subgenres of the general action/shooter game. --MASEM (t) 18:23, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, but I was talking specially about GTA articles. As Masem said TPS is a subgenre of action/shooter games. Its fine to mention it in articles like Gears of War, Resident Evil, etc; but games like GTA shouldn't use TPS as its primary genre. Pure conSouls (talk) 18:36, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

The only way they can be removed, as The1337gamer said, is if there's no sources that say GTA games are TPS. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 19:29, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
I don't know about that. Sources call them open-world, yet we don't consider that a game genre here. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:35, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
Wait, what? Third-person shooter is most definitely a video game genre, just do a Google search on it and you'll get plenty of results. If you think the GTA games in particular don't fit the description, check what reliable sources say, instead of suggesting WP:VG should remove third-person shooters in general. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 23:01, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
I wasn't arguing that, just that the GTA games are always considered open world and yet it's preferred not to use that in the lead, for any game. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 17:32, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Sources also says that it is an open world/sandbox game so we should add "open world/sandbox" in their info box too?

Some sources even calls it a murder simulator, so should we add that also?

See, GTA games contains multiple genres, you can race and gamble in it as well so should we mention that they are racing and gambling games to? Pure conSouls (talk) 7:39, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

  • "Open world" doesn't describe gameplay. Therefore it is not a gameplay genre and we only list gameplay genres in the infobox. The term "open world" describe the structure of the game's environment. Just because it is a commonly used descriptor, doesn't make it a genre. Murder simulator isn't a genre either. It's just a clickbait term for a shooter where you can kill humans. I've not seen reliable sources categorise GTA as a racing or gambling game. Reliable sources certainly don't place GTA in the same pool as Forza or Gran Turismo, etc. --The1337gamer (talk) 09:54, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
@Pure conSouls, I'm not sure what your goal is, but I'm not going to discuss the nature of video game genres with you. You start off suggesting there's no such thing as a third-person shooter, now you're just talking about GTA. If you feel the need, go through the sources listed and start a discussion on the talk pages of the articles. Starting a fake discussion here with the intent of removing third-person shooter as a genre is just plain annoying. Please stop trolling. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 09:58, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

I'm not trolling. I was talking about GTA articles and GTA "like" articles. Adding third person shooter in articles like Max Payne, RE, GoW is correct but adding it in GTA articles I don't think so. As I said before it has many subgenres and all falls in the action adventure game genre. Check Just Cause, Sleeping Dogs , Mass Effect and Fallout articles. Should we add Third-person shooter and First person shooter along with Action role-playing genre in the Fallout 4's info box? Maybe I should name the section as "Third-person shooter" as a game genre for "GTA", my mistake, but my intention was only for gta and for similar game articles. Pure conSouls (talk) 10:13, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

And check gta 3, vice city stories and liberty city stories, it is written as ".... is an "open world third-person shooter action-adventure video game" is it fine for you? At least not for me! Pure conSouls (talk) 10:24, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

If that's what reliable sources say, seems fine for Wikipedia. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 12:37, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with third person shooter as a genre, just mention these subgenres in the gameplay section and mention only the main genre in the lead. Pure conSouls (talk) 12:54, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

It doesn't look like you're garnering any sort of consensus on this, so I wouldn't be making any changes in this regard. I don't see the issue here either. They're largely played in the third person viewpoint. Shooting is a major component of the game. There's no prior precedent in saying "TPS is not a genre". Any number of reliable sources can be used to apply the label to GTA or related games. I don't understand what the problem is here. Sergecross73 msg me 12:58, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Assassin's Creed 4 is also played from a third person view and contains shooting so should we add TPS there as well? And stealth is also a major component in AC games but when I added that in their lead some users removed it stating that only the major genre should in the main lead and stealth falls under the action-adventure genre.

If it works as you are saying, so we have to add Third-person shooter and first-person shooter in Fallout 4's info box and in the lead too because they're also played in that perspective and "shooting is a major component of the game", right? Pure conSouls (User talk:Pure conSouls) 15:12, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

You have to stop with this mindset of if we do this in one article, well now we're required to do this everywhere now, and that's gonna cause problems!. We're not robots. We don't need absolute standardization across every single video game article. What makes sense for one article, may not for another. Additionally, you need to be thinking more in the terms of what sources say. If reliable sources consistently call Assassins Creed 4 a third person shooter, then yes, maybe we would need to consider that label for the game. (But I believe that's a non-issue - I don't think that's a common label for the game on a whole.) Sergecross73 msg me 15:25, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
We should add whatever critics describe the game's genre as. It's not our business to do original research and categorization on the games' genres. Usually critics do not call Fallout 4 a "third-person shooter" because that is not the primary game mode.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 19:10, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Stand-alone notability[edit]

Hi everyone,

I stumbled upon Tiberium and List of Command & Conquer factions. The "factions" article has a total of a nine references, two of which are from GameRankings. The Tiberium one (for those unfamiliar, Tiberium is an in-game resource), has ten references, most of which are barely related to the concept of Tiberium. Fun fact, Tiberium was created in July, 2003. Am I wrong to assume we as WP:VG have new standards to live up to? Wouldn't two neatly trimmed section on main article Command & Conquer be more than sufficient? soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 12:19, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

I could view List of Command & Conquer factions as a pagesize fork, as long as its considered valid in a general sense. Tiberium should be massively trimmed and merged back to the series article. Not a notable topic. -- ferret (talk) 12:45, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
Both could probably stand a merge given how disconnected the series are (besides RA's use of C&C classic): the Tiberian factions to Command & Conquer: Tiberian series; the Red Alert factions to Command & Conquer: Red Alert (series); and the Generals factions to either Command & Conquer: Generals or Command & Conquer: Generals – Zero Hour as appropriate. Tiberium of course to Command & Conquer: Tiberian series. --Izno (talk) 13:20, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
Wasn't aware each side series had a series article. With that in mind, I agree. -- ferret (talk) 19:23, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
I didn't know that either. Follow-up question: does it make sense to have a Command & Conquer (series), a Command & Conquer: Red Alert (series) and a Command & Conquer: Tiberian series? Is the latter one actually considered a "separate" series? Because I thought that Red Alert was the shoot-off from the "main" C&C series. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 12:16, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
Go read the article--the games have sufficiently different plots and enough different gameplay that the different series articles is fine. --Izno (talk) 14:14, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
Sorry, let me rephrase that; is the "Tiberian" series actually considered a separate one? By reliable sources I mean. The references provided don't show that as such, and I'm not sure what to look for on the VG/RS search engine. Isn't it just the "Tiberian" storyline, not the "Tiberian" series? To WP:OTHERSTUFF it, there's a Call of Duty article, but no articles on the Modern Warfare story arc or the Black Ops story arc (granted, they're far more similar in gameplay, but they do have different plots). soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 07:15, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
Yes, they are mostly separate. C&C classic actually belongs to the Tiberian/Tiberium series; RA is a prequel that diverged from the timeline established in C&C, and the plot drives differences in reception between the series. Plainly, besides that, there are bigger fish to fry than these. --Izno (talk) 12:28, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
If I'm keeping you away from doing other things, my apologies. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 13:07, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Video Games Released in Asian Countries Besides Japan[edit]

I would like to ask, why is it that some console software lists here in Wikipedia don't include Asian countries besides Japan when it comes to release dates? Why is it that it's usually just Japan and nothing else? For example, the list of PS4 games ans the list of Xbox One games only lists Japan, Europe, and North America.Nintendoswitchfan (talk) 19:19, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Its just because those are the major regions for where most video games are developed and released. Charts get really cluttered when others are included. Sergecross73 msg me 19:24, 7 August 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) It stems from WP:VGDATE, which stipulates that release dates should only be listed for English speaking regions, or the region of the developer. With two of the three major consoles being based out of Japan, it is generally included in lists as a result. -- ferret (talk) 19:25, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Oh ok. That makes sense to me now, thanks. Nintendoswitchfan (talk) 19:26, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

  • I didn't notice this thread until now, but it reminded me of something I have thought about. When a Japanese game's (or theoretically any non-English game) first English release is in Asia, do we list that in the infobox? This doesn't happen super often, I think, but I remember that Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 was released in English, but only in Asia. I've also heard of some PS Vita dungeon crawlers getting English Asian releases and then either not getting released at all in the West or only way later.--IDVtalk 19:09, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Video game rage[edit]

Could someone please write an article about rage against video games? (For example, the term "rage-quit" refers to this) These I'd think include yelling at the game, throwing the controller, purposefully breaking the console or game itself, taking violence out on someone else because of actions on a video game (I can think of one specific example in Anderson, South Carolina when someone killed their family member over a video game), etc. I feel like this merits an article like computer rage, road rage, etc. Please and thank you. Philmonte101 😊😄😞 (talk) 02:40, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Although most of us have the same feelings as you do, we cannot make such an article without reliable sources to back the case. I, unfortunately, do not know of any sources talking about this subject. WP:MED can also help, since the subject is also psychological in nature. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 03:34, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
What you're describing is covered by Video game-related health problems and Video game controversies#Hypotheses of negative effects of video games. For an article called video game rage, we would need several, independent reliable sources on that subject in particular. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 06:12, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
Searching for "ragequit" on WP:VG custom search brings up a great deal of sources, so I think such an article is viable. Therefore if you want to make it I encourage you to WP:DOIT.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 10:32, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
FYI, there's also a "Glossary of video game terms" article if you're more of the belief that it's less about "psychological issues", and more about childish people losing control of their emotions and being bad sports. There's already an entry, though its just an unsourced sentence, so there's plenty of room for improvement there too. Sergecross73 msg me 15:35, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
I added a short description with a source. But I can't find mroe sources focused on the term itself. It's generally mentioned as part of some other content. I don't think there's enough for GNG, let alone an article. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 15:51, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Revisiting Yooka-Laylee and the JonTron issue[edit]

Observing long-term IP edits, including more recently a severe case where the edit reached on consensus was removed entirely, I have decided to revisit said consensus and hopefully come up with something that can be agreed upon, even if it means going to Arbitration. Please visit the article's talk page if interested in discussing the issue. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 15:15, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

I thought a consensus had developed months back, so if it's mostly just IP edits, is this something that can just be solved with page protection? Sergecross73 msg me 15:24, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
EDIT: Considering the IP in question is edit warring using edit summaries like do not go by talk page, obedient sheep, I went ahead and protected the page on the ground of disruptive editing, as theyre actively advocating going against consensus. I don't believe this require arbitration, or even any further discussion until the IP brings a valid argument to the talk page. Perhaps they will, now that the page is locked. Sergecross73 msg me 15:30, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
@Sergecross73: I'd also recommend oversight. The edit summary you described seemed a little demeaning to me. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 17:52, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
Clearing the visibility of a revision is really only meant for if it includes non-public personal information, though it's sometimes used to blank streams of profanity (it's technically not supposed to be for that, but whatever); an IP calling anyone who disagrees with them "sheep" doesn't really meet that bar. --PresN 18:12, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, agreed, the comments certainly aren't appropriate for a variety of reasons, but they don't quite meet the higher threshold of needing to be erased from existence, which is usually described as Grossly insulting, degrading, or offensive material. Sergecross73 msg me 18:43, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Some article ideas[edit]

I've submitted a few ideas to Requested articles. If anyone has time, please review them? I, unfortunately, could not find any sources using the custom search for my first request. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 20:57, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

@Jd22292: We maintain a request board at WP:VG/R. You should move your requests there. -- ferret (talk) 21:10, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 Done jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 21:17, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Super Nintendo World[edit]

Third opinion needed at Talk:Super Nintendo World#Learn what the sources and words actually mean. The question is whether "Orlando" should wikilink to Universal Studios Florida (the only Universal theme park in Orlando) or Universal Orlando (the overall resort that contains Universal Studios Florida). czar 04:55, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Posted to WP:3O, as having interacted with you before makes me ineligible to provide a 3O (third opinions must be provided by an independent editor anyway). jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 06:08, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Black & White (video game) PR[edit]

Hi,

After expanding it, and as it's one of my FA targets, I've put it up for peer review, if anyone's interested. Adam9007 (talk) 22:38, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Resolution requested[edit]

Users of this WikiProject are currently invited to join a multi-user discussion about a dispute over Japanese translation at Talk:Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 00:40, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

New Articles (31 July to 11 August)[edit]

31 July

4 August

5 August

6 August

7 August

8 August

9 August

10 August

11 August

Salavat (talk) 12:06, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

  • Just giving a public note of thanks to old hand @Zxcvbnm: who has been powering through WP:VG/R like a machine. - hahnchen 13:21, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
    • Thank you! We could always use more backup, the backlog is absolutely massive.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 10:04, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
      • It is futile, there are more games being released now (and more notable ones at that) than ever before. I only hope the requests I add to the list are interesting ones to write about! #indiepocalypse - hahnchen 18:05, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
        • I dare not say we start implementing this now, but I do wonder if we should apply more stricter notability guidelines for indie video games, moreso than just having a handful of scores at Metacritic. Eg having at minimum some type of development section that is more than just release details. This idea would need a lot more fleshing out, just throwing it out there. --MASEM (t) 19:02, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
          • That proposal is strange to me. If something gets detailed coverage by several RSs, I really don't see how it could not be considered notable. You could hypothetically have a game that got reviewed by most major VG websites and won awards, but where the developer did not do any interviews, so we don't know anything about the development. Even if we were to implement something like this, "indie" isn't super well defined. Thekla, Inc. can probably safely be called an indie studio, but how about something like Double Fine? As an aside, having a Metacritic score is kind of irrelevant, other than as a tool to find reviews. You can have a game getting covered by a dozen non-reliable sources that get listed on MC, which clearly don't contribute to notability, but you can also have a game getting plenty of RS coverage but only few reviews that are listed on MC.--IDVtalk 19:21, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
            • I know, it's not a fully complete idea. However, recognizing that Hahnchen's comment above was accompanied by the "indiepocylpse" in the edit summary, and that we had recent reports that showed that with Steam Direct drawing in huge number of titles since its launch, there is something to be said that we need to be more aware of the larger number of games out there. Coverage by RSes still works, just that it will be interesting to see if this does change and if we have to change with that. --MASEM (t) 19:58, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
              • "Indiepocalypse" implies that the games are NOT getting coverage by reliable sources - otherwise it wouldn't be very much of an "indiepocalypse". The "pocalypse" part comes from the fact that there are GOOD indie games that are getting NO coverage from anyone and therefore failing when they should logically succeed. So I don't think any "onslaught" of games will change the amount of video game articles that would merit creation because the same amount of good games are being created, while more shovelware is being allowed through. There will always be a backlog of undone video game articles but I think that when people are adding them to requests in the future they should consider adding ones with enough content to fill a development section rather than ones that barely squeak over the threshold and have no info about development.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:09, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
                • Indiepocalypse was used semi-jokingly. It refers to how there are so many indie titles now, achieving any amount of sales is a crapshoot. I think indie games are getting covered by reliable sources, that coverage may be spread out more thinly, but still enough to satisfy our RS requirements. So the pace of notable games being released has increased, whereas the number of new articles hasn't (and probably won't), I don't think there's anything we can really do about it, it's very difficult to get new blood. Changing the notability requirements is counterproductive, just accept that can't do it all. - hahnchen 20:54, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── For some perspective, many of our video game sources, especially the short articles that quite clearly regurgitate press releases, would be interpreted by editors at other ends of our encyclopedia as overly promotional/affiliated (i.e., not sufficiently independent). By this interpretation, sources should provide original analysis, source-mixing, fact-checking in individual articles, as opposed to promotional tone, quoted from press copy at length (same practice that we deride in our own articles). It isn't always clear-cut, but paring down our source material from the copious amounts of junk journalism would clearly be the place to start. I don't think there is any urgent issue with WP "notability" but I do recommend viewing it as "whether enough reliable, secondary sources exist to do justice to the topic" rather than "whether we have enough sources to write a single paragraph on the game". czar 07:31, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Console image format for infobox[edit]

In WP:VG/GL#Hardware, a JPEG format should be used for freely licenced photos of game consoles or peripherials. I'm concerned whether this applies to the infobox image for articles on video game consoles, so I want input from anyone here. Should we use a JPEG image, or the PNG format with a transparent background? – Hounder4 21:33, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

I see no reason to move away from JPG that have been done for most consoles with the white background - it avoids any conflicts with BG colors that may come up with PNG. (Also JPG is generally better for photographs, PNG is better for generated graphics). --MASEM (t) 00:10, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
This rule is arbitrary and should be stricken. However, there also seems to be a general crusade towards officially discouraging any use of photographs in PNG format. In this case, I do think that transparent images are more elegant in the infobox because it doesn't force part of the box to be white instead of grey. I'd suggest following that thread, where I will be bringing this up. Does something like this actually count as a photograph? ViperSnake151  Talk  14:59, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
A general crusade! Haha.. That's a good one. Except if you'd read that discussion you'd know that it isn't about discouraging any use of photographs in PNG format. Try not to trip up over your own hyperbole. nagualdesign 15:52, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Fansite interviews:[edit]

Sometimes sites which aren't considered Reliable Sources, will do original interviews with developers. Often the figures or games are a little obscure, or not involved in modern gaming, so modern gaming news sites might not have the time or interest to interview them. Can these interviews be sited? The only issues I'd say would be: 1. Is the interview genuine or a hoax? 2. Are there any translation issues? 3. Has the interview been edited in any way? The first issue would be easy to spot, and I consider it fairly unlikely a fansite would simply make up an interview. The second and third are more subtle issues, and some caution could be used with Fansite interviews, and the information in those interviews could be fact checked vs other sources. If a fansite interview claims something outrageous that is contradicted by other sources, then that interview could be suspcicious. Other than that, I see no major problems. The VG:Sources page does list fansites, but makes no reference to interviews. But does says that forum posts by developers is fine. By extension that should mean that forum posts are fine. Harizotoh9 (talk) 07:37, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

The way we typically do it is determine if the interview seems to be genuine, and if so, treat it as a self-published source by the interviewee. If the site often publishes articles of dubious accuracy, then you should avoid it; same if the interview seems to contradict facts known through sources we consider reliable. If the interviewee/the company they work at/etc confirms the interview is real (such as by linking to it through their social media), then you should be able to go right ahead and use it.--IDVtalk 19:01, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
  • @Harizotoh9: Fansites generally don't qualify as a reliable source. I would treat them as WP:PRIMARY sources if, and only if, they have a reputable history/background. --Niwi3 (talk) 19:11, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

In regards to wikilinks in citations[edit]

Basically, a good reason why I'm removing some wikilinks from references is thanks to AWB's feature to detect multiple wikilinks to a single article. Furthermore, I do not see a point in using wikilinks in citations if some of those wikilinks are also in prose. Is there a consensus on this or can we reach a consensus before I get more complaints on this? Also pinging Darkwarriorblake in order to move the discussion from my Talk page here. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 19:57, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Because citation order can change with just a single reuse of a citation, linking overkill does not apply to citations otherwise editors have to go back to refigure that out. It is similar to using links in a sortable table - you have no assurances which line will be first so you can't use "link only the first instance" as the metric. --MASEM (t) 20:00, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
With this in mind, what else could be considered linking overkill? Is there a Wikipedia guideline I can refer to before making these changes again? jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 20:04, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
Links in prose are the ones that should be handled with the "once per article", as per WP:DUPLINKS, but even then, there's common sense exceptions. --MASEM (t) 20:06, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

History of video games[edit]

Please refer to the article's Talk page to know what I'm talking about, but in case the same IP comes back with a similar request, do any of you believe it is necessary to include the information they are talking about ("Nimatron", "The Machine of Nim", "1940s", etc.)? jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 20:14, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Disruption at Sonic Mania[edit]

Hello, I've already sent this page to RfPP due to recent disruption caused by the release of the console version, and I was hoping if anyone would assist in regulating the article. I've already hit 3 reverts on the article today and I don't want to risk myself with another. Thank you. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 14:34, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

It's really nothing out of the ordinary for a popular game on actual release day. I wouldn't worry about it. Myself and a number of others are monitoring the article too, and most of the IP edits, while not improvements, aren't any sort of major issue. (The fans aren't outraged by the game, there's no real controversy or anything, etc.) Sergecross73 msg me 14:49, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
Normal for a game that just released. After a few days/week it begins to go back to pre-release levels of traffic, as they all move on to the next big release. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:22, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Recruit new editors for the project?[edit]

Hi! We have our system ready, and we can start recommending editors to your project now. We'd like to invite some of project organizers to our study. Participants will receive two batches of recommendations. If you think the recommended editors are good candidates for your project, we'd like you to invite them to the project.

Please let me know if you'd be interested in participating, add your WikiProject and username to the table on my user talk page. Thanks! Bobo.03 (talk) 15:22, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

In case it's been a while, here are the references for the previous conversation: thread1, thread2. Bobo.03 (talk) 02:50, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Also, we really appreciate the suggestions you bought up last time, especially thanks to Ferret, Thibbs, and Czar. Based on the previous discussion, we addressed the following issues.

  • We have tuned the system to filter editors who participated the project before (had edits on project pages and project talk pages), and editors who are blocked and vandals.
  • We add a couple more algorithms in generating the candidate editor list, and one is recommending editors based on their topic area.
  • We add an extra column to keep track of the activity level for those editors.
  • We are still in a discussion about how to indicate the propensity of an editor staying in the project. But our current algorithms are recommending candidate editors who are likely to contribute more and stay longer in the project after they are recruited based on the results of prior studies.

On the other hand, we are not able to provide solutions to the following suggestions, but will keep them in our backlog.

  • About how to help newcomers at a good timing, and how to help them overcome the potential culture difference in dealing with conflict, etc. It's a really good point, but unfortunately, it might be out of the scope of our current study. It needs further research work. We probably won't be able to resolve this at this point.
  • Monitoring the hot articles for the project is a great idea. We will try to develop tools for the WikiProjects in the future study.

Please let me know if these sound good to you, or you have any further concerns. We welcome you participate our study. Thanks! Bobo.03 (talk) 15:21, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

OpenRCT2 issue again[edit]

So at the RollerCoaster Tycoon 2 page, the same user who argued that OpenRCT2 should have its own page is now arguing that we should include its former infobox in the lead here, disregarding the entire reason why the article got merged back in the first place (lack of independent notability, as shown by its lack of third-party sources). Could more opinions be brought over to the discussion here? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:25, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

There is a long discussion spawning from the infobox debate at Talk:RollerCoaster Tycoon 2 regarding making wikilinks that suggest RCT2 has reached end-of-life (product) or is orphaned work. Asking for uninvolved editors to evaluate the discussion and comment. -- ferret (talk) 17:02, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
Moving the rest of this discussion per WP:MULTI to that talk page at Talk:RollerCoaster Tycoon 2#Discussion from WT:VG. --Izno (talk) 22:10, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Sega Genesis - European launch again[edit]

I opened a thread last June concerning the Sega Genesis's European launch in the "Launch" section which isn't in accordance to the reference given, and the European release date is unreferenced throughout the article. However, the thread seems to have no response from any other editors. Any input from anyone is appreciated at Talk:Sega Genesis#European launch. Thanks. – Hounder4 23:36, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Tokyo Dark[edit]

Isn't it about time that we give Tokyo Dark its own article now that a release date has been announced for it? Neverrainy (talk) 01:50, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

I did a quick google search, and there's enough reliable sources covering it to warrant an article, so it could be done if someone wanted to do it. Sergecross73 msg me 02:28, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
Just DO IT! :D Ben · Salvidrim!  02:39, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
The proper place for a request such as this would be WP:VG/R (or much preferably, creating it yourself, as there is a big backlog).ZXCVBNM (TALK) 13:40, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
Yes, probably the latter option. WP:VG/R is a great idea in theory, but the fact of the matter is, most of us WP:VG mainstays are already busy writing our own articles, so it seems like few of the requests ever get done. Not that I'm blaming anyone - I'm the same way, and it's to be expected since we're all just volunteers here. This does look like the type of game I'd have some interest in...but it appears to be PC/Mac only, right? Unless its a cancelled video game, I usually only write game articles that I hope to play some day. And I don't do PC gaming, so I'm unlikely to do this one... Sergecross73 msg me 13:55, 16 August 2017 (UTC)