Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Western Australia

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edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia:

Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Western Australia:

Vital articles: 100 Most Influential Western Australians is a possible starting point
Requested articles: Margaret Wylie • John Thomson (Australian businessman) • Tourism in Western Australia (see: Tourism in Sydney, Tourism in Melbourne, Tourism in Brisbane) • Energy in Western Australia • Nicholson, Western Australia • South Western Advertiser (see Trove page) • Robin Sarah Greenburg (see Crimenet page)
Missing topics: Plantae Preissianae • Piotr Rutkowski • The Pilbarra Goldfield News • Arthur Jenkins (Australian politician) • Beacon Island (Houtman Abrolhos) • See missing topics report for more
Seeking sources: William Harris (Australian civil rights leader) • Michael Kailis
Expansion needed: Busselton, Western Australia • David Parker • Economy of Western Australia • May Gibbs • Bill Hassell • May Holman • Barry MacKinnon • Ross McLarty • New Norcia, Western Australia • PGA • Pilbara historical timeline • Whadjuk • List of WA waterfalls • tourism sections needed in Western Australia • Thomas Hughes (Australian politician) - needs expansion from cultural sources
Requested images: Requested photographs in Western Australia • Requested photographs in Perth
Article cleanup: See Cleanup listing
Popular pages: See Popular pages listing (related changes) – improvements to (or vandalism of) these articles will impact a larger number of readers
Assessment: See Unassessed WA articles and Unknown-importance WA articles
Outreach projects:

WP:WA Noticeboard[edit]

Recently created articles[edit]

Article alerts[edit]

Articles for deletion
Categories for discussion

WP:PERTH task force

Toodyaypedia stage 3[edit]

I've uploaded the text of some new draft articles from the Shire. Details at Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/Stage 3. Also see Wikipedia talk:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/Stage 3 for outstanding items for discussion, comment, etc. Mitch Ames (talk) 06:29, 5 June 2017 (UTC)


For the interest of those interested in such items JarrahTree 10:26, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Toodyay vs West Toodyay vs Newcastle[edit]

How are we going to disambiguate these, especially in the use of Toodyay give the growing number of West Toodyay articles which talk of Toodyay(now West Toodyay). My thoughts are for disambiguation we should be using West Toodyay as for all practical reasons that is where the sites are. While we arent suppose to create new things in the text maybe we should use something like Old Toodyay with a link to the Naming of Toodyay, Western Australia article in the first instance. thoughts please Gnangarra 05:47, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Historically and geographically speaking Current Toodyay and Newcastle are the same and Old Toodyay and West Toodyay are the same. JarrahTree 07:15, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Further to the above and Talk:The Highland Laddie, Toodyay#Article name and especially, do we want to create and populate Category:Buildings and structures in West Toodyay, which currently does not exist. (Editors are reminded that "An article should never be left with a non-existent (redlinked) category on it. Either the category should be created, or else the link should be removed or changed to a category that does exist.") Mitch Ames (talk) 12:35, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
yeah started that yesterday but thought hold on until we decide on naming Gnangarra 00:05, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Given that West Toodyay is in Category:Heritage places in Toodyay, Western Australia, which (not surprisingly) is in Category:Toodyay, Western Australia, one might reasonably expect that Category:West Toodyay should be in Category:Toodyay, Western Australia and Category:Buildings and structures in West Toodyay should be in Category:Buildings and structures in Toodyay.
(Of course if we do put cat:West Toodyay into cat:Toodyay, etc, appropriate sacrifices to appease the gods of SUBCAT may be required. Face-smile.svg)
Mitch Ames (talk) 13:16, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

burnt offerings perhaps? ash relics? JarrahTree 13:39, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
surely diffused items can be further diffused if enough avon river water flows past and diffusion can take in such complexities as to confound the fiercest of subcat demons ? JarrahTree 14:10, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
Per [1], West Toodyay is no longer in Category:Heritage places in Toodyay, Western Australia -- per [2], West Toodyay is not a subset of Toodyay, Western Australia -- so the problem disappears. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:12, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

There have been a few suggestions in recent e-mail conversations regarding the titles of the articles. I think that it would be advantageous to the project for these discussions to be on Wikipedia talk pages, particularly in light of Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 June 29#Category:Buildings and structures in West Toodyay, so the summary below is an attempt to get the discussion (back) onto Wikipedia, while respecting the privacy of the off-wiki communications and real-life identities.

Proposal 1
that article titles be changed from Foo, Toodyay to Foo, “Old” Toodyay, now West Toodyay
Proposal 2
Foo at West Toodyay", with subheading West Toodyay formerly known as Toodyay or The original town of Toodyay or similar.

"... it needs to be clear, precise and easily accessed by Googling ... it is important to include the name ‘West Toodyay’ in a way that distinguishes it from the original town named ‘Toodyay’. And it also needs to be in done in a way which avoids confusion with the today’s Toodyay township."

My thoughts on proposal 1:

An article title like Military Barracks, "Old" Toodyay, now West Toodyay is unnecessarily complicated. "West Toodyay" would probably be better than "Old Toodyay" because the location is currently called West Toodyay; "Old Toodyay" is just too confusing.

On proposal 2:

An article title of "... at West Toodyay" is contrary to WP:ATDAB and WP:NCDAB, so we should stick to the comma or parentheses, whichever is appropriate.

So far as I know Wikipedia does not support subheadings. The lead sentence should unambiguously describe the topic including the location where relevant. In some cases I know the article explicitly says "West Toodyay" (example: The Queen's Head) but others (eg Military Barracks say "Toodyay, Western Australia" and probably ought be corrected.

I don't think Google is going to have a problem finding the article, especially if the first sentence includes the correct location - and in any case Wikipedia policies would take precedence over Google's algorithms.

Independently of the article titles and whether the articles themselves refer to Toodyay or West Toodyay or Old Toodyay, there may be merit in putting a {{notice}} on the articles (excluding West Toodyay itself), something like:

Mitch Ames (talk) 04:25, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

  • what about to dab them all as Foo, West Toodyay current location, then create redirects at Foo, Toodyay and Foo, Old Toodyay or if necessary to put a hat note where a similar named current Toodyay location exists directing the reader to those articles. plus the above note but word it to cover all options including current Toodyay articles.

With a bit of Evad and Sams magic wand waving it could be a special more visually friendly template that could be specifically worded for which ever is the current location rather than the notice box.(Gnangarra) BiblioTech (talk) 02:08, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Article titles of Foo, West Toodyay would be OK. If nothing else "West Toodyay" is unambiguous (it only ever refers to one place, whereas "Toodyay" meant different places at different times). I'm a bit concerned about the amount of text in the 2nd {{notice}} box (even my initial proposal is a bit long for my liking) - I think we should try to keep it relatively short and uncluttered - the details are in the link targets, if the user wants to know - we should probably not have a potted history of the town(s) at the top of every page. (At the very least, delete the words "and its sources" - we're only concerned with the scope of the article, not the scope of the sources.) However perhaps an alternative would be a footnote (separate to references, eg see Notes vs References in Raffaele Martelli) which could put after the first reference to (the original) "Toodyay" in any article Foo, West Toodyay, where that reference to "Toodyay" is historically accurate (because that's what it was called at the time). A footnote is not as "in your face" as the {{notice}} so could be longer, with more detail, without being intrusive. Example:

The Church of Sancta Maria was the first Catholic church built in the original townsite of Toodyay[a] in Western Australia.[1]

  1. ^ This article is about a place in the townsite founded in 1836 and originally known as Toodyay. In 1860 the town was moved upstream to a new location initially called Newcastle but subsequently renamed in 1910 to Toodyay. After the establishment of Newcastle, the original townsite was known as "Old Toodyay", and renamed in 1910 to "West Toodyay".
  1. ^ Example of a reference
The footnote text would be a template for ease of re-use. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:46, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── 'West Toodyay' seems like the best disambiguation term, as it is not itself ambiguous. The notice boxes above are a bit too loud for articles, but a simpler version as a hatnote could work, e.g.

That lets readers know that what "Toodyay" refers to depends on context, with links for details if readers are interested – but without being too long or 'in-your-face', since the article prose should be providing context when appropriate. - Evad37 [talk] 16:52, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Evad37 that a {{hatnote}} would be better than a {{notice}} box. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:45, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
Created as a template {{About West Toodyay}} - Evad37 [talk] 07:12, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

BiblioTECH partnership with State Library of Western Australia[edit]

Please see the details at Meta -

BiblioTECH with Wikimedia Australia banner]

July will be a very busy time in the library - please see what interests you and come along to the events!

Saturday July 1st in the afternoon is our first workshop - out and about? come and check things out!

There will be a July meetup added to the agenda as well - probably a Sunday in the middle of the month.

More news on that soon. If you are in town, check the BiblioTECH facility out!

JarrahTree 14:12, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Wednesday 12th July[edit]

The first of three Wednesday night discussions coming up!!

Digitize and destroy, or digitize and preserve?

At the BiblioTECH room, First Floor, State Library of Western Australia - 5.30 p.m. to 7.00 p.m.

JarrahTree 07:20, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Wednesday 19th July[edit]

The second of the three Wednesday night discusssions coming up!!

Success and transgressions ?

At the BiblioTECH room, First Floor, State Library of Western Australia - 5.30 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.

JarrahTree 13:04, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Wednesday 2nd August[edit]

The third of the three Wednesnday night discussions coming up!

Distances and Isolation

Originally titled What fits? does Western Australia fit in an online encyclopedia, or does Wikipedia fit into Western Australia?

But as much about whether Western Australia's physical location and its distances and isolation effect its place in a global encyclopedia - and what the plusses and minuses about being where we are in Perth...

At the BiblioTECH room, First Floor, State Library of Western Australia - 5.30 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.

JarrahTree 12:01, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Toodyay pioneer heritage trail and West Toodyay - matching items with new articles[edit]

Does anyone know if the following items on Toodyay pioneer heritage trail correspond to the new articles:

Does anyone have copy of the Toodyay pioneer heritage trail that we could use to verify or identify the sites on the trail?

Likewise for items in West Toodyay#Historic significance:

Mitch Ames (talk) 12:24, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

The Toodyay Pioneer Heritage brochure was originally published by the WA Heritage Committee before it became the Heritage Council of WA. I believe it was one of the very early of the series of Heritage Trails. There is no digital copy of this brochure. I contacted the State Heritage Office in January 2017 and was advised while they had a record of this brochure it was inaccessible due to having been saved in an old format. I can forward a scanned copy of this brochure which contains a map of West Toodyay prior to re-alignment of Julimar Road. The brochure identifies the following places: West Toodyay School, Samuel Ferguson's Cottage, Royal Oak Inn, Highland Laddie, Queen's Head, Military Barracks, Colonial School, Lock up, Catholic Chapel - Margie — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elrebe56 (talkcontribs) 05:00, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

So far as I can tell from the location on the Toodyay Pioneer Heritage Trail brochure map, item 13 Catholic Chapel is the Church of Sancta Maria, Toodyay. @Elrebe56 and Bmorc44: could you confirm or refute that please. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:32, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
Page 13 of that brochure says that they are the same thing. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:12, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Bardon Park AFD[edit]

Please consider commenting at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bardon Park (Western Australia). --doncram 17:47, 5 September 2017 (UTC)