Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wikipedia Awards/Archive 9

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Proposed Biography Barnstar

User:Kayau would like to add the Biography barnstar to the topical barnstars. Submitting here for discussion. Is it needed? Is the design appropriate or desireable? Unschool 13:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Biography Barnstar.png The Biography Barnstar The Biography Barnstar is awarded to editors with a considerable contribution to bipgraphic articles.

  • Since I created this barnstar, I will not comment on whether to keep it or not. I will explain the design here. The background is black with a white person, which resembles the black-and-white photographs of famous people such as Twain and Einstein. The dates of Albert Einstein are in the foreground because he is the most influencial person in the history of the world. Kayau (talk) 13:41, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  • The person doesn't really look person enough... It's an okay background. But if I didn't look at the title I'd presume it was a keyhole. Suggest slight redesign on this one, maybe actually have a proper picture of some one, or even a group of someones, rather than centring around one person. - Kingpin13 (talk) 14:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I don't think we should be using a set of specific dates. Especially not Albert Einstein, since he is not the most influential person in the world and claiming that he is is just subjective nonsense. Claiming any one individual is "the most influencial person in the history of the world" [sic] is inherently subjective and based on the opinions of one individual. And don't bring up that stupid Time magazine thing to try to support your Einstein claim- first off, they were referring to the 20th century, not all time, and secondly the only reason they picked Einstein was because picking a certain political figure who, however evil, had way more influence on the shape of the 20th century than Einstein did would have been insanely unpopular and polarizing. Just use the star with the silhouette, it looks fine that way. Nutiketaiel (talk) 14:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I agree with Nutiketaiel that the dates are not the best choice, and I agree with Kingpin that the silhouette needs to be more distinctive. I really like the background a lot. So sharpen up the outline, remove the dates, and perhaps consider increasing the size to something closer to the other barnstars. Cheers. Unschool 14:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  • This barely resembles a barnstar, so if it's used as is, I'd prefer it be listed on a different award page and not WP:BS. Parenthetically, is there a way to merge this idea with the BLP Barnstar. We have so many barnstars already and need to avoid making them too specific. —Eustress talk 14:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  • If you don't like the dates, What do you think should be in the foreground? The word biography? Also, I want to ask what the person included should be. Einstein? Shakespeare? Confucius? Newton? Dickens? Beethoven? Da Vinci? Obama? Please give me suggestions. Kayau (talk) 15:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  • What about just a generic bust or outline thereof? No dates, no specific individual. --JBC3 (talk) 16:14, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

By the way, what is the normal size for barnstars? Kayau (talk) 15:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think we should include a person, or any words at all really. Just the star and silhouette should get the point across. As for size, they vary based on design. The image ends up being 100 px, but I think they are saying that most barnstars tend to have less border space around them. I think the size is OK (variety is the spice of life), but take a look at it side by side with the original barnstar and you'll see the difference. Nutiketaiel (talk) 15:21, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
But if I just alter it so that it looks like a barnstar, and keep neither the person nor the words, nobody would know if it's a biography barnstar! I'd prefer adding three elements, three people from different ages, such as Socarates, Shakespeare and Hemingway.

Kayau (talk) 00:21, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

And Besides, it's hard to make it look more like a barnstar and

keep the silhouette at the same time, but I'll try. Kayau (talk) 00:24, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

  • The person(if that even is one) looks hardly anything like a person. Abce2|AccessDenied 00:23, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Another editor has already expressed his concerns about this. Please give me time. I will be able to finish it by Sunday night, Hong Kong time. Kayau (talk) 00:25, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry about that, I'm new to this part of the project.Abce2|AccessDenied 00:27, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
No need to apologise! I am new also. Kayau (talk) 04:32, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I now lay the two new versions here, side by side, since editors have differed in opinion. Please decide on the best one (or the cross of both).

I am very, very sorry, but I've been trying to revert and stuff. Whenever I revert it, they seem to switch. Just see the history at the commons. I've been very, very flabbergasted with this. Can anyone help me revert it back to the one with Socrates, Shakespeare and Einstein? Kayau (talk) 11:33, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Kayau (talk) 11:27, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

As they are at the moment, version 2 is nicer. But that's just because version 1 isn't properly merged. I can't really decide which design I prefer - Kingpin13 (talk) 11:33, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Will you be kind enough to help me change it so that everyone can see? Thank you. Kayau (talk) 11:34, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Oh, stupid me. Only I can revert it. Can anyone advise me how to do it? Kayau (talk) 11:36, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Good. It's normal now. Allow me to explain the versions. Version 1 contains three images that replaced the keyhole thingie. They are all from the Commons. Version 2 has a barnstar made black-and-white and slightly altered. Personally, I prefer number 1 because it (seems to) fit(s) more editors' fancy. I will observe the discussion and give comments. Kayau (talk) 12:00, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
I kind of like #1 better, but the problem is that it's Three White Males, and that might be seen as POV by some. I don't know why, but #2, the two full-body sillhouettes, just doesn't work for me. Having said that, my favorite was probably the single person shoulders and above sillhouette. Unschool 21:55, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
If Greek-British-Jew doesn't fit, what about, say, Zhang Heng, Shakespeare and Mahatma Gandhi? Kayau (talk) 00:32, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
On second thoughts, maybe Wu Hou, Marie Curie and Mahatma Ghandi. Kayau (talk) 02:32, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I would like to add the Biography barnstar to the topical barnstars. Kayau (talk) 13:04, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think that consensus on a design has been reached yet. Look in the archives. Sometimes it has taken more than a month to make this happen. Patience will serve you well. Unschool 22:25, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
  • It is not that I want to add it. I typed the sentence there by mistake! I haven't even read your comments on this. Kayau (talk) 00:27, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Are we re-inventing the wheel?

Has anyone ever seen this?

Biographystar.png The Biography Barnstar
for researching and bringing the article on Nutiketaiel up to FA status, I award Kayau this Biography Barnstar. Unschool 22:42, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmm... But mine focuses on the deceased. Perhaps I forgot to tell you that. Kayau (talk) 00:30, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with awarding this barnstar to someone who contributes to an article about a deceased individual, though. --JBC3 (talk) 11:26, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

We shouldn't be overdoing it. There's already one for the topic and we don't have to divide it further into unnecessary categories. What I'm trying to say is, for instance; there's already the biology barnstar. If we go and create new ones like mammals barnstar, fish barnstar etc. we are going to overload the place with barnstars and eventually no one will know which one to award for which reason. Template:The Biography Barnstar is there as an award for work in all biographic articles. Template:The BLP Barnstar is there for work in WP:BLP area, since that is a specialized area of biographies that need special attention. I don't think there's a need for a new barnstar for work on deceased people's biographies. I think The Biography Barnstar is enough and will serve the purpose, and if we really need a change we can change the image to one of the proposed ones. Chamal talk 13:28, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Ooh, I'm a featured article now?  :-) In seriousness, I agree with Chamal. He's right about the dangers of overloading the Barnstars, and the Biography Barnstar does cover it. I was aware of the existance of a BLP Barnstar, but I didn't know we already had one for general biographies. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:50, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Obviously not!!! :) Kayau (talk) 07:48, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and added the barnstar from the Wikiproject page to WP:BARNSTAR. It seems to be sufficiently general to justify its inclusion there. Unschool 05:38, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Ad-hoc barnstar clean-up

I propose moving the following barnstars to WP:PUA, as they are address too narrow a scope to be on WP:BSEustress talk 14:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. Both of these barnstars commend actions that help wikipedia as a whole and the improvement of articles in general, and the actions they describe can be applied to any article. They do not belong under personal user awards. Nutiketaiel (talk) 14:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

But aren't they just as well served with The Cleanup Barnstar and a plethora of others? —Eustress talk 15:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
By that rationale, the cleanup barnstar could probably replace a cool dozen. Doesn't mean we should do it, though- there's nothing wrong with being specific when rewarding someone a barnstar; it makes it more clear what you're awarding it for, and can encourage others viewing the barnstar on a recipient's page to take similiar productive actions on Wikipedia. Nutiketaiel (talk) 15:28, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Nutiketaiel is on the money here, both in regards to these being personal user awards and in regards to using the Cleanup instead. Are they narrow? Yes. But they serve to reward some very important work, IMHO. Keep. Unschool 21:57, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Just an idea

What about a toy barnstar, for editors who have contributed greatly to toy related articles? I've made a little test of what it would look like (I used a picture, becuase I'm not that good with making my own) if anyone wants to see it. Abce2|AccessDenied 14:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Sure, post it here so we can all see and discuss. I don't think we have a barnstar for that topic. Nutiketaiel (talk) 15:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Star with green ribbon.svg The Toy Barnstar
For editors who have contiubuted greatly to Toy related articles

That's not bad looking. It would probably go best as a personal user award, though, given its limited scope. If you didn't make it, did you check with the wikipedian that did to see if he is cool with using it as such? It isn't technically necessary, since the image is public domain, but it would be polite. Nutiketaiel (talk) 15:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I've asked. So now what can I do with it while waiting for a reply? Abce2|AccessDenied 15:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Not a barnstar, so would go under WP:PUA, unless you could connect the ribbon to a barnstar. —Eustress talk 15:18, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, you can still use it, asking is a courtesy. Looking at the guy's edit record, it seems that he isn't here very often so it will probably be a while before you get a reply. No sense waiting forever. Nutiketaiel (talk) 15:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC

I'm working on a better picture, but how do you import a picture? Abce2|AccessDenied 15:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

You're probably best off going to commons to do it. There's a whole how to guide there. Nutiketaiel (talk) 15:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I just tried that, and I'd rather have put in personal user awards for a while while I work on touching up the image than deal with Commons for the first time. Abce2|AccessDenied 16:12, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

How do you put it in?Abce2|AccessDenied 16:19, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Now I'm starting on a new one. Abce2|AccessDenied 16:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Toy star.png The Toy Barnstar
For editors who have contiubuted greatly to Toy related articles

I really like this one. It's purpose is completely clear from the image, and the image itself is rather nice. Nutiketaiel (talk) 18:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Nice... Really nice. You should put in a better source than "Wikipedia", a link to the toy soldier picture, and a link to the barnstar (I presume we already have pictures for them and you merged them together? Anyway, nice job - Kingpin13 (talk) 18:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Better sources now. :)Abce2|AccessDenied 18:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Nice. I like it. --JBC3 (talk) 18:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Now the sources have 10% less confusion. Abce2|AccessDenied 18:12, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Great, I say go ahead and add it to WP:BARN. The way to do this is create a template page, witht the barnstar on it (you can copy and modify from Template:The Original Barnstar). And then add it to the bottom of Wikipedia:Barnstars#Topical_Barnstars (just copy and modify from the one above). If you need help with any of it just ask :) - Kingpin13 (talk) 18:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

It's finished and up there! Abce2|AccessDenied 18:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow, this wasn't even up here when I last edited. It's great! Very nice design, that immediately provides the person seeing it with the intended concept. Unschool 21:58, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

An idea 2

I've looked up and down the list of Barnstars and I've noiticed that there's no Biology star. If there is one, I feel stupid. Anyway...I've got some time to kill(literaly waiting for paint to dry) so should I start on one? Please let me know either here or on my talk page.Abce2|AccessDenied 21:52, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

As soon as you give the signal I'm ready too start.Abce2|AccessDenied 22:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Bio star.png The Biology Barnstar
For editors who have contiubuted greatly to Biology related articles

It's just a prototype. Abce2|AccessDenied 23:18, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Anyone? Abce2|AccessDenied 23:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually there is a barnstar for contributions to biology related articles ({{Bio-star}}). It's listed in Wikipedia:Awards by WikiProject since it's a Wikiproject Barnstar of WikiProject Biology. I think that one is better and should stay, but nice effort from you. Chamal talk 03:58, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I've got to agree, mine looks horrible compared to that one. But I would think that it would be on the Barnstars list. Abce2|AccessDenied 04:01, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

No, yours does not look horrible; in fact, its nicer than others than have been placed at WP:BS. But having said that, I must say that the Bio-star has always been one of my favorites. And I think that it's too pretty, and has far too wide a natural application, to be hidden away in a wikiproject. Accordingly, I've moved it to the barnstar page. Unschool 22:21, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

This Barnstar is very nice looking. Is there anything else we could use it for? Maybe Wikiproject Leipdoptera would like to use it as their project barnstar. It seems a shame to waste a nice looking barnstar. Nutiketaiel (talk) 12:02, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Great idea. And maybe the Butterfly and Moth editors would consider using it, too.  ;-) Unschool 00:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Abce2, did you want to offer your barnstar for use over at the butterfly and moth wikiproject? Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:25, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

DoneAbce2|Free LemonadeOnly 25 cents! 19:08, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Just an Enquiry

Do you have a neutrality barnstar? I don't recall seeing one, but it soundsd strange if there isn't any. If there isn't, can someone make it? Kayau (talk) 04:56, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

This is indeed strange. NPOV is a one of the main aspects of Wikipedia and I feel there should be a barnstar for that. Apparently there was a discussion somewhere around 2006 to introduce a NPOV barnstar but it seems to have been abandoned. We can either pick one of the old proposals or make a new one. Personally, I think none of the old ones give the idea of NPOV clearly. I'll try to come up with something if they won't do. Chamal talk 07:05, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
We could have something similar to File:Wikipedia scale of justice.png but with barnstars instead of the logo...? - Kingpin13 (talk) 07:08, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
I also thought scales would be a good idea. Chamal talk 07:29, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm working on an image at the moment. Done one half (So I just need to flip it (seriously, even that is difficult in Corel PHOTO-PAINT ;D)). But I'm literally walking out the door, I'll upload it in an hour or so - Kingpin13 (talk) 07:46, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Okay, it's done, but I'm just wondering about the copyright. I presume the copyright for File:Wikipedia scale of justice.png only applies to the logo...? Or should I check? - Kingpin13 (talk) 09:46, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Apparently, they mean the image, but the use in Wikipedia may be acceptable. I suggest you seek advice at the Wikimedia Commons Help Desk. Kayau (talk) 12:11, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I am totally confused. What would a neutrality barnstar be issued for? Adherence to NPOV? If (and I really don't know) you mean for adherence to NPOV, then I don't see it, that's a minimum expectation for editors, not something you reward. So what is this for? Unschool 22:23, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

It is for people who adjusted controversial articles, such as the Second World War, to become a neutral one. Kayau (talk) 00:41, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Good point. Made me feel stupid :) The reason can be "for maintaining neutrality in controversial areas" as Kayau says, but then that creates another problem; how do we define 'controversial'? I feel there's a danger that this barnstar will be scattered about everywhere without serving its real purpose. Maybe this wasn't such a good idea after all. Chamal talk 05:25, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
You are quite right. What about that, we change its use by stating that it is used only for pages with neutrality tags on the top of the article/section? That's more clear. Kayau (talk) 06:06, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
I definitely like the idea of the scales, but why it is given out will have to be clearly worded to stop it being handed out for very minor edits. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 19:30, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
This award wouldn't be for writing in a neutral point of view, it would be for refactoring articles to have a neutral point of view. I don't actually edit at commons (and don't plan to). I think, to make this easier, I'll redo the image with a different/my own pair of scales. I can't at the moment because once again I'm leaving the house (tis the best time to edit). I anybody else wants to do it, please do - Kingpin13 (talk) 08:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar-law-II.png This image was submitted for a law barnstar back in January by Regicollis. A ribbon version of it has been sitting at WP:PUA ever since then, but as far as I can tell it has never been awarded. I have always thought this barnstar looks great, and I think it would fit perfectly for the proposed NPOV Barnstar. If Regicollis has no objections (I'll be leaving word on his talk page to see this conversation right after I finish posting this), I propose repurposing this barnstar to become the NPOV Award. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Suits me. Better than anything I've come up with so far. Although I kinda dislike having the sword in there. Also, no file links except Wikipedia/Template pages, so this picture certainly hasn't been used as an award yet. - Kingpin13 (talk) 11:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I agree that the sword is inappropiate for this matter, for it has little to do with neutrality. By the way, if you continue using your own image, you could simply use a global account to ask them at the commons. Kayau (talk) 13:54, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, I already use a global account but very rarely edit outside of en.wikipedia. I had a go at removing the sword, the thing is, the tip covers the fancy strip which all the points to the star have, and because all the points are partially covered, it'll be very difficult to get it to look right (dunno if that maks sense :/) - Kingpin13 (talk) 14:00, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Minority opinion

I still don't get this. I mean, I understand (and appreciate) Kingpin's explanation, so yes, I understand under what circumstances this will be awarded. But it doesn't seem like a good idea to me. One' person's NPOV will be goring someone else's POV oxen, and awarding a barnstar for it seems like it would be twisting the sword (hey, maybe the sword is appropriate, after all!). Here's how I see it. A person who successfully refactors an article so that it is now recognized as NPOV by all or most parties will probably be settling a dispute. As such, the Barnstar of Peace would likely be appropriate, because the problem is not the POV, it is the arguments about what is POV and what is NPOV. I just don't see anything positive coming out of this barnstar (though my objection is not a deep one). Unschool 00:40, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I do see your point, but creating an NPOV article out of a deeply debated POV article shows both great skill and great dedication. Yes, the Barnstar of Peace would technically work in such a situation, and there is nothing wrong with awarding it. However, that doesn't mean we can't have a barnstar with a more specific focus for people wanting to award for that specific action or set of actions. To paraphrase a wise wikipedian, is the focus narrow? Yes, but it serves to reward some very important work, IMHO.  ;-) Additionally, the barnstar of peace might not be appropriate for all situations. What if you were the one who brokered the compromise between the disputing parties, but I was the one who actually implemented the compromise and made the page NPOV? You might be awarded the Barnstar of Peace for your efforts, but an NPOV Barnstar would be more appropriate for my efforts. Does that make sense? Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Sure. I agree. Kayau (talk) 14:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I guess I get it. (I think that the sword should go, however.) Unschool 05:08, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
In that case, I dare say it will be on the list (under the name NPOV barnstar, of course) in no time. Kayau (talk) 02:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Hello? This discussion seems to be 'closed'. Why? All the best, Kayau (Talk to me! See what I've done! Sign my guestbook!) 02:15, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
    Because nobody (at least not me) can manage to remove the sword without making it look a little bit "funny". Does anybody object to using the picture with the sword still there? - Kingpin13 (talk) 09:49, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
I have no objection to that. Go for it. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:49, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm voting "no". But if you others all want to vote for it, I won't stand in the way; I'll vote for it and we'll take a united decision to the Barnstar Page. But if just one other editor objects, then we stay here and keep talking it out. Well, that's my proposal. Unschool 03:20, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposed World War Barnstar

World War Barnstar.png The World War Barnstar The World War Barnstar is awarded to editors with a considerable contribution to world war-related articles.


  • I made this barnstar, and I know that it looks kind of strange. Does anyone have any ideas to improve this barnstar? Kayau (talk) 00:40, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Do something about the gun. It's just, "there." Try and make it clear just by looking at it. Abce2|AccessDenied 02:21, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I'm afraid I don't quite understand. Will you please explain? Kayau (talk) 06:04, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
    • What he means is try to make it so that it is clear that the barnstar is about the World Wars rather than something else such as pistols! Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 19:24, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
  • It kind of looks like the barnstar is using the pistol to hold Africa hostage. No, don't do it, barnstar! Don't hurt Africa! Here, you can have my wallet, but let Africa go! Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:46, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Don't worry. Barnstars can't hurt a fly! (talk) 00:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
  • How about adding some images of objects that are closely associated with world war 2? I mean, there are some things that automatically remind people of WW2 when they see them. Stuff like Spitfires, U-boats etc. Chamal talk 11:32, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
    • How about a picture instead of an object? The picture of Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin at the Yalta Conference is one of the most iconic images of World War 2, in my opinion. Then again, not sure how to get that into a Barnstar... Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:37, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Will you do it for me? I will be pretty busy in the next few days. Kayau (talk) 12:36, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
    • I'll be honest, I lack the skills to make a barnstar of that complexity. The four I have made have all been very simple in design. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:26, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Here is the new version:

World War Barnstar 2.png Crazy, but I combined everyone's ideas! Kayau (Hee-Hee) 10:09, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

  • I kind of like it. It certainly is clear what it is for. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Seems pretty nice. The Spitfires could perhaps show up a bit more (although I'm not sure how you'd do that). Maybe a bit to "picturey". But overall it's fine, as Nutiketaiel says, it's obvious what its for, and that's what matters - Kingpin13 (talk) 20:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Eurocentrist. Cannot support. Unschool 04:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Please give me suggestions for improvement, then. All the best, Kayau (Talk to me! See what I've done! Sign my guestbook!) 05:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I apologize. My laconic post was not helpful. Okay, here's some thoughts:
  • I doubt the photo's image, especially when superimposed by a B-star, will be easy to see for a lot of folks. In general, I think photos make poor material for barnstars.
  • Unlike WWI, WWII truly was a world war; if we are to show participants, the Pacific Theatre must be represented as well.
  • I don't think this will work trying to represent the key players, but if we were to try, what about the heads of Churchill, Stalin, Hitler, Roosevelt, and Tojo each on one of the five points of the star?
  • Instead of the participants, maybe something involving a map or a globe, though I can't think of what.
  • Another possibility would be something that shows weaponry identified with WWII, but I'm not knowledgeable about that at all.
These aren't very good ideas, I'm afraid, but that's all I have. Sorry. Unschool 05:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
It is an iconic image of the allied leaders, and since only one of the three is the head of a state that rests entirely within Europe (assuming that you discount the rest of the commonwealth), I wouldn't call it Eurocentric. The pacific theatre is represented- all three of the nations represented fought in the pacific theatre (albeit not untill very late in the game in the USSR's case). I can't picture any map that would adequately express the idea at a glance without being either Eurocentric or... Japanocentric? Nippocentric? I don't know, whatever the right word would be, you know what I mean. Similiarly, I can't tell one plane (or tank or gun or battleship or whatever) from another just by looking at them, so using weapons or vehicles of the war would not get the point across. It would be obvious that the Barnstar was about a war or war in general or maybe about weapons, but I don't think it would get across that it is for World War 2. I have no objection in principle to a barnstar incorporating FDR, Churchill, Stalin, Tojo and Hitler, but I can;t envision a way to design it that would not look tacky. We could try flags. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

(out) I agree with Unschool that a photo is unsuitable for this. When you size it down to 100px, you need a microscope to identify the people in it. I don't think using flags would be a good idea either, since it wouldn't really show any connection with WW2 and there'd be too many anyway. I think for this particular barnstar, we've got to stick to one thing (weapons, people etc) or it'll get too cluttered up. Since this falls within the scope of Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history, we can ask them for ideas. They've got a lot of awards already BTW :) Chamal talk 12:07, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Idea for WW barnstar
Despite you not wanting flags, I've made one with them (just so you have abetter idea of what it might look like). I'm not too dissapointed with it, and would be happy to use it as the final. My main annoyance is that it may not be clear that it's about WW. Please share your thoughts - Kingpin13 (talk) 19:00, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I would like to tell everyone the following things:

Thank you for your kind attention. All the best, Kayau (Talk to me! See what I've done! Sign my guestbook!) 02:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Nutik makes some good points that I had, quite honestly, overlooked in regards to the fact that these nations were also involved in the Pacific Theatre. While the USSR's pathetic declaration of war happened only after The Bomb was dropped on Hiroshima (if I recall correctly), it did nonetheless have major implications upon territory after the war. But I was thinking about the fact that the Pacific war, if we date it from the Japanese occupation of China, was actually a much longer part of the war, and no Asian people were included (As an European American, I mentally linked in FDR in with my Eurocentrism comment).
I actually like the flag image on the right better than the original photo of the Big Three; it's a bit messy, but I like it better.
Please note: If we fail to come up with a WWII Barnstar, the sun will still come up tomorrow. Unschool 02:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Nah, the sun's not even important (don't need it for my computer, do I?) ;D. In reply to Kayau's points: I quite like the britian one like that, although I could possibaly take the ripple down fractionally, but wouldn't want to ;D (Afterall, you did realise it was the british flag). Go ahead and create one if you want, after all, the more pictures we have the better we can see what different ideas might look like (better than words can show us), and thus, we cn probably come up with the best result. As to using one with important people, but not having it look "picture-like"... Well I had a shot at that before I did the flags one, and it's pretty difficult. - Kingpin13 (talk) 05:16, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Wow, that flag one looks pretty cool, actually. Way better than I was expecting. I would support that one. Still, if we can't reach a consensus on a design, we may want to drop this one for a while, maybe come back to it later. Nutiketaiel (talk) 12:01, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Personally I'm very pleased with the flags barnstar - Kingpin13 (talk) 07:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
I do like the flag barnstar. Very stylish. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 11:43, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
This one is really good! Abce2|Free LemonadeOnly 25 cents! 19:08, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Nobody seems totally against the flag one, and there seems to be significant support, so I'm going to add this on for now - Kingpin13 (talk) 11:41, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposal of Children's Literature Barnstar

I would like to propose the Children's Literature Barnstar for the Awards by WikiProject. Kayau (talk) 07:25, 21 June 2009 (UTC) Children's Literature Barnstar.png


  • This barnstar comes from the Original Barnstar and a stack of books from the commons. The names, Alcott, Burnett and Carroll, are big names of children's literature, and their initials form ABC. Kayau (talk) 07:28, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I like the idea of the books and names. Perhaps the Barnstar can be placed behind with the books in front, rather than have it perched on top. It looks odd to me. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 19:26, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
  • <Edit Conflict>It looks good to me. The "ABC" idea was a nice touch, and the names get across well that it is for children's literature. I support this barnstar. Nutiketaiel (talk) 12:05, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  • If there are no objections, I hope that it can be placed into the WikiProject Barnstar page soon. Kayau (talk) 13:50, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Looks good; much improved since first version. Unschool 00:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
    • Q: Is Lewis Carroll really considered a kiddie lit writer? Unschool 00:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
      Yes. It's one of Carroll's genres. Alice's Adventures in Wonderland is his most famous. Kayau (talk) 07:47, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Doens't look like there are too many objections. I'll put them on the WikiProject now. If you disagree, undo it. Kayau (talk) 08:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Proposing change to the Buddha barnstar

Current image
Proposed image

I'm proposing a change to the Buddha Barnstar. I don't like the colour of the current one very much, since green is not a colour associated with Buddhism AFAIK. Anyway I made a new image, with a Dharmacakra and Buddha statue so that it clearly symbolises what it's about. What do you guys think? Is a change in order or is it unnecessary? Does the image need any adjustments? Also I suggest the name be changed to "Buddhism Barnstar" since not everything to do with Buddhism is not related to the Buddha, and also so that it's in line with the other religion barnstars. Chamal talk 16:25, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


  • I agree with the name change. It should be the Buddhism Barnstar. However the proposed change looks too cluttered. If the Dharmacakra was used with the current Buddha head in the middle, I think it would look better and not as cluttered. Nice idea to incorporate the Dharmacakra into the barnstar. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 19:27, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
The head was another problem I had, since I thought it looks a bit unnatural with only the head showing there. Maybe a bust would be better? And do you mean that we should drop the star and go with only the Dharmacakra? Chamal talk 01:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes. I meant that the Dharmacakra should be used as the background with a Buddha bust in the center in front of it. The Dharmacakra would represent the star of the barnstar. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 13:08, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I too support the name change, as well as the need to make yellow the dominant color. Using the Dharmacakra is good, but I would like to see other designs using it as well. Including a head or bust of Gautama himself I don't think is really necessary, but neither do I object. Unschool 19:44, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I think it looks funny that we see the side view of the sitting buddha. Perhaps it could face us? (talk) 02:46, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I like the proposed image. I am a little curious as to why you chose to show Buddha in profile instead of straight on, but I have no objection to it. I really don't find the image cluttered, personally; I think the Dharmacakra makes an excellent background, and Buddha and the Barnstar balance each other nicely in the image itself. I would be cool with the proposed barnstar as it stands. Oh, and I support the name change 110%. Nutiketaiel (talk) 12:08, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Just make that Buddha face us, and everything will be perfect. By the way, why don't you change the name first? The Buddha Award really sounds quite strange. Kayau (talk) 12:38, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

New images

Sorry for the delay guys; I'm working on an article and these things are not my first priority. Anyway, I've got two images:
BuddhismBarnstarProposal2.png BuddhismBarnstarProposal3.png
I removed the star as suggested and added a statue facing front since everyone seemed to think that best. I added the whole statue since I wasn't sure where to cut off from if using a bust, and I thought it would look a little weird anyway :) Are they ok? I'm not sure if they are clear enough, particularly the statues. Chamal talk 08:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

  • But if will not be a barnstar without a star! As for the statues, I think neither of them are clear enough. I think it will be more appropiate to use a bust. Kayau (talk) 09:51, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I liked your initial proposal better. The bust was clearer even if it was in profile (which, again, I had no problem with) and it included a star. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:32, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
In fact, there is a small one on the bottom. But you reminded me that the Adoptee's Graduation Barnstar doesn't have stars. Kayau (talk) 05:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I think it needs a bust rather than an entire statue; you could use the original barnstars bust. I think it looks good using the Dharmacakra and getting rid of the star. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 18:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Aaaaarrgghhhh!!! Consensus divided! :P Ok, how's this one:
I thought this was the best image of a statue so I got the bust from it. Star is there now though. Chamal talk 11:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I understand the thoughts on a barnstar without a star, but generally I think they are better with one. I think Chamal's image is the best one yet, and it has my full support. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:32, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm with Nutik on this one; I too support Chamal's effort here. Unschool 04:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
You've said all that I meant to say. All the best, Kayau (Talk to me! See what I've done! Sign my guestbook!) 05:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
ARG! I think it looks silly with the star. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 10:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Get Agrippa! Unschool 05:06, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
LOL. Why does every barnstar have to a "star" in it. What I am surgesting is to use the Dharmacakra as the star itself. Its breaking new ground but why not?! Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk | Sign 11:42, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Do we have consensus to use this then? It's been a week, and since we seem to be the only people who waste time on this page, I guess more comments are unlikely :P Anyway, if another image is needed, someone else will have to do it; I'm kind of busy at the moment and I can't work on this. I have already moved the template to the proposed "Buddhim Barnstar" page, since everyone agreed to that. Chamal talk 11:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh, so we're "wasting time", is that how you feel, Chamal? ;-) And when you say, "It's been a week" (oh my, a whole week), you sound somewhat impatient. You know what that means, don't you? NO BUDDHA BARNSTAR FOR YOU! Unschool 15:25, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
Please, unschool, calm down. I think we could have the dharmacakra on the background, then o. BS the same size, and above the dhar - whatever, and the bust of buddha on top. Chamal, I know you're busy with the DYK, so I'm not telling you to do it at once - there's no rush anyway. All the best, Kayau (Talk to me! See what I've done! Sign my guestbook!) 02:13, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Cry.png aaaaahh! Nooooo... hey wait a minute, you've spelled it wrong. Anyway, I mean if it's not ready to go, one of you will have to make the changes. I'm busy (in rl) so most of the time I do spend on Wikipedia can't be spent here. Chamal talk 02:59, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I still think it's ready to go as it is. Chamal's most recent version is an excellent Barnstar. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:37, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I too am satisfied with Chamal's most recent version. GOA's point is a valid one, but I'm old fashioned, I guess, and feel more comfortable with the inclusion of the tiny b-star. Unschool 01:07, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I find this really funny

That we don't have our project barnstar on the Wikiproject barnstar area.:) Someone else can do it, because I am really busy today. Abce2|AccessDenied 18:57, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I tried and screwed up bad. This is the last of my free time until a couple of hours. Abce2|AccessDenied 00:00, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

{{The Barnstar Creator's Barnstar}} is there. Chamal talk 01:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Plus, we have the Barnstar Barnstar, in case you didn't know. (talk) 02:44, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I do know, but your not looking in the right place. I was talking about the "Wikiproject awards."Abce2|AccessDenied 02:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

It's on WP:STAR page instead of the wikiproject space. I don't know why that is. However, some barnstars associated with Wikiprojects are shown on that page as well since they are commonly used/important awards etc. But if you think it should be in the Wikiproject awards section, go ahead and add it. Chamal talk 02:57, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I did, but I meesed up. Abce2|Free LemonadeOnly 25 cents 01:46, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Paper Barnstar

I would like to say that this barnstar needs some changes. It's too dark, and it isn't photographed properly. Plus, there were no descriptions on the page. Do you think it should be improved? Kayau (talk) 09:08, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Hmph. Where did it come from, and what is it used for? Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:42, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Both this and the one below seem to be Wikipedia:Personal user awards. Chamal talk 11:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Can I try a newer one?Abce2|Free LemonadeOnly 25 cents 00:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Here's idea Numero uno( Number one ).Abce2|Free LemonadeOnly 25 cents 01:46, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Paper Barnstar2.jpg The Paper Barnstar
For editors who have contiubuted greatly to ??? related articles

Um... What's that funny stick on the bottom for? Kayau (talk) 05:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey, if these are personal user awards, then they are not subject to our revision or even discussion. Unschool 05:25, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Proposed Deletion of ZOMG barnstar

ZOMG barnstar.png

  • This barnstar has no actual uses stated. Plus, it is only the original barnstar plus four letters whose meaning I cannot comprehend. I think it should be deleted. Any comments? Kayau (talk) 09:13, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I disagree. It is listed under personal user awards, which is more of a compilation of awards given out by individual wikipedians than a list of approved standard Barnstars. The image is simplistic, but it's not offensive in any way, and I think we should be very careful about deleting things from the PUA page. Finally, it has been awarded to about a dozen different people from the look of the file page (I didn't actually count), which is more than you can say for many of the personal user awards on that page (including the two that I designed). I think it should be retained. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
But there were no real uses stated. What does zomg mean anyway? Kayau (talk) 12:34, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
A personal award is something that is introduced and used by a single editor. If you want to know what the award is presented for, you can ask the creator for details. Chamal talk 12:41, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
And BTW, it's a Commons file, so we can't delete it here. Even if we could, deletion of images should be proposed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. We can't decide it here in a wikiproject. Chamal talk 12:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Good thinking. I think you are right. (Makes me feel even stupider.) Kayau (talk) 12:56, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I think there should be a better summary for it. Abce2|Free LemonadeOnly 25 cents 01:28, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Bad news. The editor who created it has left Wikipedia!Kayau (talk) 05:13, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

NutiketaHal is correct: ALL THESE PAGES ARE YOURS EXCEPT EuroPUA. ATTEMPT NO DELETIONS THERE. Unschool 05:16, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

USE THEM TOGETHER. USE THEM IN PEACE. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:46, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Request Economics/Finance barnstar

  • I would like to request for an economics/finance barnstar. I think there should be one, but I know nothing about these things, so I would like to request for it. Kayau (talk) 12:55, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I will try. Abce2|Free LemonadeOnly 25 cents 01:00, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

This is my first attempt. Abce2|Free LemonadeOnly 25 cents 01:46, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Ecanomics Barnstar.png The Economics Barnstar
For editors who have contiubuted greatly to Economic related articles


  • I think you should make the background transparent(alpha 0%), with borders around the money. Kayau (talk) 05:09, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Don't care for the basic design concept. There's already too much of a perception that economics is about money, which is not the case. Unschool 05:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Economics is about alot of things, and money is one of them. It is also what comes to mind for alot of people when they think of economics, and since the goal is for the purpose of the Barnstar to be intuitively obvious... Regardless, I am also opposed to this design. I have no problem with money, but using just US Dollars is a little amerocentric in my opinion. I am curious, Unschool, what would you say economics is about? Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I would say that economics is the study of how societies distribute scarce resources, but the definition at Economics is pretty good, too. It says Economics is the social science that studies the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services. Nothing in there about money. And societies without money have economic systems. Money is simply a medium through which economic systems transmit value. Unschool 03:07, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree with your definition completely, and I would say that since money is the primary means by which value is transfered in every society that owns computers (and can, therefore, receive Barnstars), it is not out of line to use the image of money in such a Barnstar. Of course, it's a moot point since we apparently already had an economics barnstar, but who knew? Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:17, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
  • In case you didn't notice it, Gala Octavia Agrippa, there already is a graph in the picture. (I'll call it a graph in case you don't use the term 'broken line graph' in your country, because everybody is from around the world.) I think we could have a graph with barnstars instead of arrowheads. Kayau (talk) 02:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
  • The award below would not have been my choice for a design dealing with this subject, but it is simple and elegant, and has been in place for some three years now, and I see no reason to create another one. Unschool 03:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Have we decided to trash this award?

Gold barnstar 2.png The Business and Economics Barnstar
For exposing wasteful use of human resources regarding the production of barnstars, I award myself this Business and Economics Barnstar. Unschool 03:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Flabbergasting! Where on earth did you find THAT? I don't think I've seen it on the WikiProject Award page or the Barnstar page. Kayau (talk) 05:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Some awards are given in the Wikiprojects own page and are not listed in this project (WikiProject Wikipedia Awards) pages. Maybe we need to find all of these and add them to our lists. Anyone willing to waste time on this? Count me out Face-tongue.svg As for the images, I don't like the old one or the proposed one. It's no use replacing an image with something of the same level, so I think we'll go with this one until a better image can be obtained. Chamal talk 11:47, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Where did I find it? On the main Barnstar page. And it's been there as long as I can remember it. The template is nearly three years old, and it's been awarded numerous times. No need to change. Unschool 04:52, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I completely agree with Mr. Chamal (and don't count me either.) And Unschool gave me quite a shock. All the best, Kayau (Talk to me! See what I've done! Sign my guestbook!) 05:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)