Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red

Woman of the day: a new one each day from our women's biographies

One-day online recruitment editathon

In view of the highly successful online Wikimedia Women in Red panel presentation, I suggested on Rosiestep's talk page that we could use a similar online approach for a two-hour recruitment editathon which could be repeated two or three times the same day for different time zones. The two hours could consist of three or four short inspiring introductory presentations, possibly by some of the Wikimedia panelists, while most of the remaining time could be devoted to short practical exercises on Wikipedia editing. The participants could be completely new editors or editors who have recently joined but have not yet gained much experience in editing. They would have a week to draft their first article. Their work could then be reviewed and discussed at lessons learnt sessions a week after the editathons. Now that several key contributors have supported the approach, we need to plan the online sessions in some detail. As I have little experience either of online presentations or of editathons, I was hoping that Rosiestep and/or Victuallers could coordinate planning unless there are any other offers. It now looks as if the event could be held in connection with Ada Lovelace Day on Friday, 8 October, perhaps with lessons learnt sessions on Saturday, 15 October. So we still have plenty of time for planning and any further suggestions.--Ipigott (talk) 09:56, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Some ideas that were mentioned might make this even more inviting. Make this 24 hour - so those who think we are antipodean could appeal to their newbies too and to have a follow-up - "Around the Globe". I have approached one of our NZ members - we do have some great WIR contributors from down under. I suspect we could get Emmeline Pankhurst's home as a nominal base if we ask Carol Ann?? Doing it on Ada's day would make it more appealing to the media. Ada and Emmeline, Gendergap and Global should hit some media buttons. Victuallers (talk) 10:36, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Victuallers, the 24 hour approach is a really good idea as we have WiR enthusiasts all over the world. While having a physical base of operations isn't required as this will be a virtual event, I think it would be great if Carol Ann were interested in participating and if Emmeline Pankhurst's home could be used as a nominal base, e.g. for purposes of the media. Thanks for suggesting it, Ipigott, but I have some time-pressing wiki responsibilities right now so I am not best suited to coordinate planning (though I'd be glad to participate the day of). Surely there are other pagewatchers who might have time and inclination to coordinte planning, for example, some of the other Wikimania 2021 WiR panelists? --Rosiestep (talk) 11:04, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

I have suggested we should include a clear link to this in the invitation for September in order to identify others who are interested in helping with the event as well as existing members who might like to take advantage of the practical exercises on basic editing, etc. I'm not too clear about what Roger means by making this 24 hour. I had the same idea from the start but I was thinking of three or four two-hour sessions for different time zones (and maybe with representatives of the areas covered). But let's see what the others think about it. I like Roger's ideas about gaining publicity through the media.--Ipigott (talk) 16:26, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh thats what I mean by "24 hour" Ian. I'm just trying to package that idea up. Your suggestion allows anyone to join in despite being in any of the "24" time zones. Victuallers (talk) 07:34, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Moving forward. I think we have antipodians and I'm about to get a thumbs up (I hope) on the Pankhurst centre. Anyone know of people in US for one time zone and another in central Europe(ish) Victuallers (talk) 16:02, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

• Sounds good and it looks to me as if you've taken on the role of central coordinator. For Europe, maybe John Cummings, if he's interested.--Ipigott (talk) 09:02, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Very late to this, but I'd be happy to help out on the day/s. I'm not sure I would have time to support with planning, although it sounds like we just need someone with an account like zoom, and an eventbrite

account to run sign ups. I think the 24 hour idea is very good - 24 hours of continuously editing about women in honour of Ada Lovelace would be great fun! Lajmmoore (talk) 16:36, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Brilliant! We are booking the Pankhurst Centre in Manchester. Carol Ann Whitehead is arranging that. I have been DM'ing Lisa Maule in New Zealand and she tells me that they are up for it. Carol was run these before and Lisa constructed a recent editathon on NZ dance/theatre which just about removed the colour red from out hand-crafted theatre based red list. I have asked WMUK if they can cover travel/refreshment costs. So we now have antipodean bases!! Would someone volunteer to create an editathon page? I am hoping that if we build it then they (other editathons) will join us. I'm starting some bullets below for Ada Lovelace Day.

• New Zealand (contact Lisa Maule) (Twitter is good)
• UK (Manchester) contact Carol Ann Whitehead WikiZebraCarol (best via Twitter)
• Eventbrite???? Lajmmoore????
• Editathon page ????
• ............... @John Cummings:

Looks like this may happen!! Victuallers (talk) 10:19, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Victuallers, I am very happy to pitch in on the editathon page setup, tho I will need some guidance from those more involved with the details. Maybe I should start by setting up the WiR annual October STEM editathon and then it’ll be easier to pick some elements from that to use? Innisfree987 (talk) 22:15, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! @Innisfree987: I would suggest that we note the time difference for UK and NZ in the hope that others will add their new place and time difference. As you suggest I think we need to draft something and it will develop to be something more certain during this month. Victuallers (talk) 22:21, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Victuallers: Yes, it now certainly looks as if this is going to happen. Thanks for all your efforts to date. I'm happy to see Innisfree987 is now helping out too. Please let me know if I can be of any help.--Ipigott (talk) 11:18, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Ipigott and Victuallers—for now my one question is whether to make the 24-hour event page as a subpage or the month-long WiR STEM editathon (just a draft so far!), or a subpage at WP:Meetup, or other? I will work on it in my sandbox in the meantime. Thanks! Innisfree987 (talk) 20:07, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987: I would make it a separate meet-up page which sooner or later should be coordinated with the pages being created in the UK, NZ, etc. Links can later be made with pertinent items in our developments for October. Is this OK with you, Victuallers?--Ipigott (talk) 08:26, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

I bow to your expertise in this area. I want to make sure that NZ have equal billing and others can see where they can slot themselves in. Are there are people reading this who are not in UK or NZ time zones? as we could do with your contact list to find organisers at other locations. Victuallers (talk) 11:31, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Ipigott, that’s what I’ll do—and I didn’t realize the “local” events had their own pages going, so that’s helpful. Just let me know when those are available to incorporate! Innisfree987 (talk) 19:15, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987: I don't think any have been developed yet. I just assumed that if we are addressing different time zones, it would be logical to have separate meetup pages. Just let's see how it goes. There's still plenty of time.--Ipigott (talk) 19:20, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Ipigott, Innisfree987, Victuallers a couple of things:

• I wonder whether the theme could be STEM, but also also include any other women too? It might be easier to get broader involvement from other projects, if the A for Arts is included? (That is A Thing - https://theconversation.com/steam-not-stem-why-scientists-need-arts-training-89788 )
• Would just one events page create more unity? Lajmmoore (talk) 07:22, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

• Yes, Lajmmoore, I was rather hoping that Victuallers and his UK friends could put together the main event page and that there could be links in and out of the other pages. But let's wait until we hear from him.--Ipigott (talk) 09:18, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

  Here’s the draft I started: user:Innisfree987/sandbox/Ada_Lovelace_Day, but I don’t doubt it could be improved upon! Innisfree987 (talk) 12:16, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks, Innisfree987, for making a start on this. I think we need to emphasize that it's primarily a recruitment event. I also tend to share the suggestion that even though we are using Ada Lovelace Day as a trigger, we should open it up to all areas of interest. We also need to feature short, inspiring presentations along the lines of those presented in the WiR panel at Wikimania. If you agree, I'll have a go at adapting it along those lines.--Ipigott (talk) 12:55, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

  Ipigott, by all means, make whatever changes you see fit! It was just to have something to work with and I will be glad for those more closely involved to revise to fit their needs, including on the STEM v STEAM question. Innisfree987 (talk) 13:10, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Lajmmoore, to your point, I was rather inspired by the meetup page of Wiki Loves Women, which has a nice clean, modern look and additionally has tabs that might be a good way to compile different events in a central location. Do we have anyone handy with Wikipedia UX design who could assist with that? I made a start of trying to spiff up some of the elements of our usual editathons, but I’m afraid it’s seeming I am not very spiffy! WomenArtistUpdates, I don’t know if this is at all terrain that interests you? Or anyone else with design talents and/or Wikipedia UX expertise? (I know there are user pages which attest to this talent being out there!) Innisfree987 (talk) 20:23, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi Innisfree987, I don't know anything about making those cool tabs or Wikipedia UX :( WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 18:14, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

WomenArtistUpdates, ah ok, thanks for letting me know. Was just hoping we could make use of your great eye! But I totally understand, since I can’t figure out how to tidy it up to my liking either! Innisfree987 (talk) 22:20, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Update: (a small) victory is mine! I managed to make a tabbed header tho can’t add it until there are links to use with it. Pasting to the draft’s talk page for eventual use (or not, if not the chosen solution). Other aesthetic and UX improvements continue to be sought! Innisfree987 (talk) 22:35, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I'll have a look at the page. Thanks to @Lajmmoore:, @Ipigott:, @Innisfree987: et al. Not sure about STEAM, obviously good stuff but I notice the Ada Lovelace Day as a STEM event does not have its own page yet. (Maybe if we can make the media then we can start one to include this late start.) Although WIR has always broadly interpreted its entry requirements for a specific editathon so I wouldn't want to reject artists, especially if we failed attract WIR art enthusiasts. Maybe art in botany or art in maths?? I'm talking to Manchester this evening. Carol doesn't edit much but she is a great organiser. I will also point the NZ team at our page. Pleased that Ipigott reckons we have plenty of time. I'm still optimistic that we will get a offer to collaborate with a US based event and one? in Asia to complete our clock. Any offers of a logo? Cheers Victuallers (talk) 09:43, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Date? We have been working on October 12th as second Tuesday. Is there a move to be on the preceding Saturday? Victuallers (talk) 16:50, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

• Victuallers: I assume you are suggesting 12 October for the online event for reviewing results, etc. I had suggested Saturday the 16th simply because I thought people would not be tied up with their professional work but the 12th is fine by me too.--Ipigott (talk) 08:53, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

I love the idea of illustrators in botany and mathematics. Also CGI artists count I think! And of course SFF writers and illustrators. We could include some verbiage specifically highlighting these professions for inclusivity. Innisfree987 (talk) 22:23, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Kia ora koutou - NZ here catching up with the convo in this space (Lisa) - there are lots of scientific artists and artistic scientists and I think it is good for there to be a range of types of articles suggested for recruitment to new people. Interesting also to hear 'where' the project might be and ideas how to coordinate across timezones too. Pakoire (talk) 03:56, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Update: Its gathering wings! Meeting 3 hours ago on zoom to discuss. Its going to start at midnight (UK time) on the 12th in New Zealand. Australia will take over then, UK in the afternoon at Emmeline's house in Manchester. Documents are being prepared including sign up docs and press release. Meeting in exactly one weeks time on zoom.... want to help? Zoom invite by contacting me, or Lisa, Siobhan, Callan etc. Keen to find links in US, Asia and Africa in particular. Help "the first 24 hour wiki editathon" for Ada Lovelace Day in just over a month's time? Victuallers (talk) 09:55, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Not sure if right thread to add to, but hallo @Victuallers: and UK organisers, I'm UK based and would be very happy to help during the session, confident introducing newcomers to editing, helping manage the zoom, etc. Have run workshops on zoom and in person before - with @Lajmmoore: (thanks Lajmmoore for telling me about this event!) Medievalfran (talk) 11:28, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Emerging arrangements for 8 (12th) October

@Medievalfran: Hi Fran, (and anyone just lurking here) welcome! The event will start in NZ at midnight and anyone can join in at that point. During UK unsocial hours it will move across Australian time zones etc. In the UK we can join virtually but those in travelling distance of Manchester can gather at Emmeline Pankhurst's house in central Manchester. We will be supporting "real"? people there and a virtual audience of what we hope are new Women in Red recruits. We will need trainers, hand-holders and hand-clappers, twitter etc support. This will be for anyone in "our" timezone so links to Western Europe and Africa are on our menu. All of this is done by volunteers. We are happy for you to join in - do feel free to assist as much as you can. Invitations, sign up sheets and a press release are being prepared and they all need friendly eyes to make them great. (One person has offered support for UK editors who prefer Welsh.) Victuallers (talk) 07:48, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Victuallers: This sounds like real progress. Thanks for all the effort you are putting into this.--Ipigott (talk) 08:52, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Victuallers: fabulous, thank you for all the info! I can definitely be around virtually on the day. Can help with training/ hand holding/ cheering, etc! Will keep eyes peeled for more info :D Medievalfran (talk) 14:54, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Victuallers, via the Women in Red instagram other user groups in Africa, Asia, etc. have been messaged about involvement and they've been asked to wave hello here! Lajmmoore (talk) 07:23, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I have just emailed one of the organisers of 2019's BlackLivesMatter editathon. I believe she was also involved with an Ada Lovelace Day editathon last year. Perhaps she and her colleagues may form the missing USA link. --Oronsay (talk) 00:27, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks to Lajmmoore, Oronsay (and others) for reaching out. A US based contribution (of any size) is really important to complete the framework. The NZ, AU and UK plans are well progressed and a press release announces the launch in New Zealand at their midday (my midnight). I'm optimistic that we will find contributors and on both the east and west coasts. Obviously other countries are of interest even if they have similar timezones to our existing locations. Victuallers (talk) 08:06, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Victuallers: I'm really pleased to see things are going so well. May I suggest you write a summary of progress to date and the need for additional support and include it as a new item at the bottom of this page. Only those of us who look at the history of new additions can spot work on this section.--Ipigott (talk) 09:16, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Courtauld and statues of women

"Jessica Barker argues that we should rediscover overlooked sculptures of women. " BBC recording at [1], spotted at [2], might be of interest here. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 17:54, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

She's a specialist in English tomb monuments. Very few of these indeed have their own articles (for either gender), and sourcing online would usually be tricky. Most are paired with the husband. Additions to our poor coverage of the general topic, at Tomb effigy and elsewhere, would be the most useful response, I expect. Outdoor portrait statues in the English-speaking countries are pretty well-covered, I'd have thought. Johnbod (talk) 15:33, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Just a comment on the irony of this. Women's studies first started with a group of academics who set out to identify women and their activities as depicted in famous paintings with the logic that if someone took the time to preserve the images they must have some significance to societal development. Surely that same logic applies sculpture, though as Johnbod points out it might be difficult to source. SusunW (talk) 18:32, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

It's news to me that was how women's studies started, but whatever. Not sure how you take the time to preserve a painting either. In the case of tomb monuments they are the women of the nobility and gentry (typically only those who had married and produced heirs), generally shown lying flat on their backs wearing their best clothes. Useful for fashion history, but not much for "activities". But, as I said, a topical approach to the subject would be good. Johnbod (talk) 03:39, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Just happened to hear this on the BBC this morning. One of those she discussed in some detail was Alice Chaucer, Duchess of Suffolk and her sculpted monument which she was able to pay for herself. Barker's recent book Stone Fidelity (Boydell, 2020) looks like interesting reading. She pointed out that only 80 of the UK's public sculptures of people are of women while some 400 are of men. (Rather like Wikipedia, n'est-ce pas?) Most of the country's sculptures of women are however not public as they are in churches. It certainly looks as if this could be an interesting new avenue to explore.--Ipigott (talk) 10:11, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Anyone good at coding? I imagined that we might have an app that would allow you to see on a map all the sculptures of women in the UK/wherever that SHOULD be there. With emerging augmented reality we could (soon?) create a viewer that showed what the world would look like once we have fixed history with every other stature being of a woman. I live in Jedburgh where the first woman scientist in the world (Mary Somerville) was born. No statue (sigh) Victuallers (talk) 10:05, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

August metrics

The month's not over yet but with less than 1,800 articles to date, it looks as if this is going to be our least productive month this year as well as our weakest August to date. This is surprising as August is usually one of our most productive months. Maybe with the assistance of some of our prolific sports enthusiasts like Lugnuts and keen contributors like Antiqueight, we can still create many more. Let's see how it goes.--Ipigott (talk) 11:43, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

I got a late start this month and I'm working on it, but I don't know that I can manage more than about 2 per day for the rest of the month... and if I manage that it'll be a miracle cause I'm getting windows put in and it's a mite distracting ;-) ☕ Antiqueight ^chatter 11:11, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Antiqueight: Thanks for the quick response. Don't overdo it. I just gave you as an example. I hope many others will help out too. In any case, with Women writers coming up next month, we should soon be able to make up any shortfall.--Ipigott (talk) 11:41, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

I love the August editathons, but this is the first time I've gotten to see my mom irl in two years, so my participation level is close to zilch for a good reason :) -Yupik (talk) 00:11, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Unfortunately so far I've managed only 1 a day since I said that... le sigh.... Ah well.... ☕ Antiqueight ^chatter 21:34, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Having restarted my efforts on the 17th I didn't quite manage an average of 1 a day for august... but I did get 26 done! ☕ Antiqueight ^chatter 20:28, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

I've been focussing elsewhere but saw this call and have written about two Aussie writers (too early for Writers' month!) and will do more this month and next.--Oronsay (talk) 21:43, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

• I see we're up at 2,240 for August today, a considerable increase. Thanks to all who contributed over the last few days. It certainly made a difference.--Ipigott (talk) 06:59, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Noliwe Rooks photo

Hello, is there an available photo of Noliwe Rooks that can be used in her article? Thank you, Thriley (talk) 17:04, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

I couldn't find a CC image of Rooks but I did find a CC-licensed YouTube video of Melissa Nobles and Tracey Meares. Would be great if someone could extract a usable image from here: [3]. TJMSmith (talk) 17:59, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@Innisfree987: maybe you can help get screenshots of Nobles and Meares? Not sure if there is a CC image of Rooks. TJMSmith (talk) 20:11, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

TJMSmith, thanks for the ping, I had missed this! I’ll be glad to give it a go. Innisfree987 (talk) 20:56, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

 Done and added to their bios. Good find, TJMSmith! Innisfree987 (talk) 18:29, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987, yay! Thank you! TJMSmith (talk) 18:40, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

African women’s football teams

I was going through the GAR requests at WP:GAR and there are a few for African women’s football teams. The main editor of these articles is no longer here so I was interested if anyone from a related project might be interested in picking them up. They basically need updating as the last substantial verifiable edits were in 2012. There are issues with uncited statements and other general fixes needed too. The ones with GA requests are Rwanda women's national football team, Burundi women's national football team and Central African Republic women's national football team. There are other articles like Gambia women's national football team, Madagascar women's national football team etc (see Category:African women's national association football teams) that have similar issues. I don’t think it would take much effort to update these as they don’t seem to play a lot of games. The issue is finding sources. It would be a shame to delist them so hoping someone is keen to have a look at them. Aircorn (talk) 23:09, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Maybe Hmlarson would be interested in helping out here.--Ipigott (talk) 09:36, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Pinging Ampimd, HandsomeBoy, SuperJew, Bring back Daz Sampson to see if they might be able to assist as well. Thanks for letting me know. Hmlarson (talk) 18:24, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

I can try helping out, but I'm currently finishing up exams period, and then it's holidays, and in general a million things are going on in life hehe. --SuperJew (talk) 21:09, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Hmlarson, for this helpful response.--Ipigott (talk) 08:55, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Sure! I would be glad to help out. I have worked on the Ghana women's national football team I think that can be reassessed because its now beyond a start article but rating still stands at start. The issue about the articles at the moment are the records. The cap appearances, top scorers, captains. I would have a look at them and see how to help. Ampimd (talk) 14:25, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. FWIW Laura Hale who created these articles was one of my favourite editors. I remember she knocked them all out in a few days which I thought was astonishing! I think later on she was basically hounded out by a motley collection of neckbeards and incels. We need to find some way to keep hold of our most talented editors at the expense of the mediocrities who have nothing positive to offer the project. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 12:36, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Katrina Forrester

Does Katrina Forrester pass WP:NPROF? Her monograph on Rawls won some notable awards but I'm not seeing a clear pass of notability standards. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 01:11, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

It looks like a fairly clear pass to me. The Drover's Wife (talk) 04:19, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Metrics adjustment

Metrics junkies will know that WiR's metrics slightly overstate the count of qualifying articles, because the ReportBot does not remove redirect and disambiguation pages from the monthly lists.

Articles which have been added to WP and the metrics with Title A, but which have been moved to Title B, are added a second time as Title B, without Title A being removed. (Example, from June 2021, we have Holly Aitchison (rugby union), a redirect, listed & counted, as well as Holly Aitchison. IMO this is a bad thing; we're double counting.

Equally, articles added to WP and the metrics with Title A, but changed to a redirect to another article entirely (example) are also not removed. Does WiR want to count the creation of articles which are subsequently changed to a redirect? WiR metrics do not count articles which have been deleted (They're removed from the monthly lists); and 'changed to a redirect to another article entirely' is a form of deletion.

I suspect it'd be possible to reset a monthly count page, by deleting the content of the page; I think ReportBot will recreate the page on its next daily run and will not add DABs and redirects.

And I'd quite like to try that. I'd like metrics to report on the number of articles, not the number of articles plus redirects.

Clearly, were this done, numbers would go down - my estimate, by about 3-4% - but, arguably, accuracy would go up.

Thoughts? --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:17, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Support. Thanks for this idea on how to resolve the issue. Innisfree987 (talk) 20:37, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Please go ahead and make the necessary adjustments. If the count is made correctly, I suppose it should correspond with the stats from Humaniki, although these are not compiled on a monthly basis.--Ipigott (talk) 16:13, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Let Us Not Praise Famous Women

I came across this recent blogpost by Deborah Cameron, the linguist who wrote The Myth of Mars and Venus: Do Men and Women Really Speak Different Languages?. In "Let Us Not Praise Famous Women", she investigates some of the names in Women in the History of Linguistics, published at the end of last year by OUP. What information is available to the general non-academic reader, who hasn't got £110 for a copy of the book? Unsurprisingly, some but not all of the women she looks for are represented on Wikipedia; unsurprisingly, many of these mentions are inadequate and in some cases insulting.

The Wikipedia part of the problem (which matters because Wikipedia is such a go-to source for students and anyone without access to academic libraries) is well-known, and there have been efforts to deal with it by organizing ‘edit-a-thons’ in which entries for missing women are added. But this approach has limitations. It’s implicitly based on the assumption that women have been overlooked inadvertently, and that attempts to correct the record will be welcomed. But some recent research by Francesca Tripodi casts doubt on that assumption. [...] It shouldn’t surprise us that the digital revolution hasn’t changed this [tendency to subsume women's achievements]. There is no technological fix for sexism: the problem is political, and the solution must be too.

I have no question to ask, but offer this as a potential resource - both Cameron's commentary, and a pointer to the weighty tome. --Carbon Caryatid (talk) 09:10, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Mentioned in Deborah Cameron's blog post as needing work:

• Ann Eliza Worcester Robertson - not in WP (Q106641549)
• E. Adelaide Hahn - WP entry says nothing about her actual contribution in linguistics, while making insulting mention of irrelevant personal characteristics
• Alice Kober - WP entry insulting (following Margalit Fox's New York Times obituary)
• Lucy Shepard Freeland / L. S. Freeland / Nancy Freeland / Nancy de Angulo - no WP entry, but full coverage of an 'erratic genius' husband (who actually harmed her career)

Have stubbed now. Dsp13 (talk) 11:31, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• Barbara M. H. Strang / Barbara Strang - sparse WP entry, misleading to call her professorship a 'novel appointment' (though that is following John D. Haigh in ODNB, which comments that this was 'the first chair of its kind in England, just as she was one of the first women to hold such a post')

Mentioned in the opening (unnumbered) chapter of Women in the History of Linguistics, and presumably worth review / content creation:

• Johanna Corleva (1698-1752) (Q19756224)
• Marguerite Buffet
• Carolina Michaëlis de Vasconcelos / Carolina Michaëlis de Vasconcellos / Karoline Wilhelma Michaëlis de Vasconcelos / Karoline Wilhelma Michaëlis de Vasconcellos
• Ban Zhao / Bān Zhāo
• Anna Maria van Schurman
• Marie Le Jars de Gournay
• Bathsua Makin
• Elizabeth Elstob
• Francisca de Chantal Álvares (1742-post 1800)
• Julie Heins (1822-1902)
• Clementina Scagliarini
• Emma Widmer-Gotelli
• Hester Piozzi
• Carolina Coronedi Berti (1820-1911)
• Margrethe Thiele (1868-1928)
• Luisa Lacal de Bracho
• María Goyri
• Anne Dacier
• Louise Gottsched (1713-1762)
• Maddalena Manfredi (1673-1744)
• Teresa Manfredi (1679-1767)
• Teresa Zanotti (1693-1732)
• Angiola Zanotti (1703-1735)
• Wakamatsu Shizuko / Matsukawa Kashi
• Adele Marion Fielde
• Ella Cara Deloria
• Daisy Bates
• Vaijayanti
• Lucy Catherine Lloyd / Lucy Lloyd
• Carobeth Tucker Laird / Carobeth Tucker / Carobeth Laird
• Mary Haas
• Klara Collitz / Klara H. Collitz (1863-1944)
• Cinie Louw (1872-1935)
• Elizabeth Catherine Carmichael / Ella Carmichael (1870-1928)
• Valborg Olander
• Chiri Yukie
• Caterina Franchesci Ferrucci (1803-1887)
• Elisabeth Jacobsen / Lis Jacobsen

Dsp13 (talk) 15:27, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

I have a copy of Riddle of the Labyrinth, and I did have in my head that the article on Alice Kober could do with some work – maybe I should take this as an incentive to see if there are any easy gains to be made there! Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 15:33, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Dsp13, thank you so much for this work list and especially the details of where various claims originated. Hoping we can improve without departing arbitrarily from sources. Innisfree987 (talk) 15:48, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

I have updated the crowd-sourced Linguistics red list from these names: WP:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Linguistics. Innisfree987 (talk) 16:00, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Innisfree987, Most already had Wikidata entries, but I went ahead and created the remaining ones for this list. Several have non-English language Wikipedia articles. TJMSmith (talk) 17:15, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Great, thank you TJMSmith! Innisfree987 (talk) 17:41, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Ah and perhaps this is implicit in Dsp’s ready access to the book, but I’m delighted to see that Women in the History of Linguistics is available to anyone with the Wikipedia Library bundle, by selecting Oxford Scholarship Online database and searching the book’s title. Innisfree987 (talk) 16:19, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

• Carbon Caryatid, I don't even believe politics can fix this either. It's deeper than political. It is a heart issue among the human species. It is deeply personal and only a person can choose to be sexist, can choose to be racist and can choose to have any kind of hatred or ill will directed at other humans. They can choose to live their life in anger or choose not to. It is always a personal choice and because of that it can not be legislated, adjudicated or forced out of the hearts of those who choose to connect with it. All we can do is fight it where we are able and choose to live as examples of the opposite: kindness, love and acceptance. --ARoseWolf 15:38, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
• Before assuming that lack of coverage of women in a particular field is due to malicious sexism, deliberate neglect etc etc, it is necessary as a first step to try to check that the situation for male equivalents is actually different, otherwise such speculations are worthless. Very often the situation for the men is just the same; we don't have bios for most academics of some distinction, even American ones . And "WP entry says nothing about her actual contribution in..." is probably true of the majority of our bios of academics of both sexes, unfortunately. As for "making insulting mention of irrelevant personal characteristics", these are picked up from the obituary in a specialized journal - perhaps blame the author of that. Tripodi's research doesn't really bear on this issue, and has statistical problems that the May issue of The Signpost analysed very well. A clear majority of the "opening chapter" list do have bios already, which maybe isn't too bad. Johnbod (talk) 02:56, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• Whatever the situation in regard to bios of men, when we hear of specific problems in regard to women, we should of course look into them and make any justifiable corrections. As most of those who are still red-linked are probably known for their publications, they look like good candidates for our current focus on writers. Thank you Carbon Caryatid for bringing this to our attention and Dsp13 for preparing the lists.

Question about notability criteria and patents and scientific papers

Hi all

I'm exploring helping WIPO (UN World Intellectual Property Organization) import some data into Wikidata including names of people with most patents and people with the most cited patents. I want this information to be useful for Women in Red to identify people who could have Wikipedia articles. Could someone who is more knowledgable than me tell me if patents (legal documents published by government agencies) and scientific papers published in journals written authored by the person help towards notability? And if yes how much?

Thanks very much John Cummings (talk) 14:06, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

An academic paper can help demonstrate notability per WP:SCHOLAR, if that paper "has had a significant impact in their scholarly discipline, broadly construed". If you can show that a paper that a particular person has written has been "highly cited", that counts towards notability.

As far as I know, there's no guideline which says that the same is true of patents; the only thing I can find on patents in wikipedia space is WP:PATENTS, which notes that patent authorities "do not fact-check, edit or endorse any material in the patent application". As far as I can tell, there's no specific notability guideline for inventors – they need to get by on WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO, and I don't think that their patents are likely to count significantly towards either. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 14:34, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi Caeciliusinhorto-public thanks, this is extremely helpful and will allow us to import more relevant people into Wikidata for Women in Red. Any other thoughts very welcome. John Cummings (talk) 14:53, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

A patent is merely a "proof of existence" primary source, thus of no value for demonstrating notability. Secondary sources that discuss the patent or patent holder in significant depth are more useful. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:44, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

John Cummings: I suggest you also bring this up on the talk page of WikiProject Women scientists. I seem to remember quite a few of our bios of women in science and engineering refer to their patents. In addition to WIPO (e.g. Gender Gap in Innovation Closing, But Progress is Slow), you might find it useful to look into the European Patent Office who have given special attention to women inventors on various occasions, including Women inventors] and Celebrating women inventors. There's also an interesting BBC article Why are so few women inventors named on patents?. It looks to me as if one of our future monthly priorities could be on "Women and patents". We also have Category:Patent holders and Category:American patent holders (although they are not well populated and don't list many women}. It might be useful to create Category:Women patent holders and see who deserves to be included.--Ipigott (talk) 12:10, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi Ipigott, super helpful, thanks very much, I'll update this when I've started to get lists ready, it should just all feed into the existing WD redlists but I'll see if there's anything new that needs adding in terms of profession or whatever. John Cummings (talk) 13:07, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Please keep me informed of developments, John. It's one of the areas I know quite well as when I was involved in early applications of machine translation, I came into close contact with the EPO and other patent offices in the EU. It would also be iworthwhile exploring the extent to which women work as patent agents, a key component in the application process. See for example Closing the Patenting Gender Gap Requires More Women Patent Attorneys.--Ipigott (talk) 14:48, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks very much Ipigott, will do. John Cummings (talk) 15:18, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

John Cummings: John, I have exchanged some emails on behalf of WIR with WIPO and surprisingly/refreshingly they are willing to use open licensing on their images when requested, but they were not willing to make a batch change. Email/Telegram me and I can give you more detail. Victuallers (talk) 08:09, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi Victuallers long time no see :) Yes I've also been working on it, recently got them to release a first batch of images here. Please do use them to encourage them to share more. Were there any you were after specifically? John Cummings (talk) 08:33, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

I had a lot of good releases from here, but they wanted a specific email listing each image we wanted. They were very friendly but I found other routes. I sent them flickrmail and got useful replies. Do thank them for the ones they released to me as "Victuallers1". Cheers Roger aka Victuallers (talk) 08:50, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Public domain 1968 yearbook image? Linda Trip

Is it likely that the 1968 yearbook image posted here:[4], [5] could be public domain {{PD-old-auto-1996}}? How could that be verified? TJMSmith (talk) 18:42, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

TJMSmith, I found a similar one that I verified as {{PD-US-no notice}}. I'll upload it! Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:28, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

 Done See Linda Tripp. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:39, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Calliopejen1, great, thanks! TJMSmith (talk) 21:33, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Lotte Bailyn photo

I recently created an article for Lotte Bailyn. Any chance there is an available photo of her somewhere? Thriley (talk) 23:11, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Sorry to say I could find only copyrighted images (I did find a CC-licensed video of her husband, whose bio was not illustrated either.) That said I feel like there are some Internet Archive wizards with tricks of their sleeve I haven’t learned yet, so maybe one will yet be found? Innisfree987 (talk) 19:56, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for looking! I’m sure there’s something out there. I’ll keep looking myself, but I expect the wizards will come through at some point. Thriley (talk) 03:54, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

If you get time then email MIT Sloan School of Management. IMO its bonkers that universities copyright the pictures of their leading figures. I cannot imagine them enforcing this restriction, it just constrains the law abiding Victuallers (talk) 08:12, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

ITNRD candidate: painter Yolanda López

Painter Yolanda López died yesterday. I admit I am running on fumes here at the moment, but if someone(s) has the energy, she would be a great addition to ITN. I can definitely help if anyone needs assistance with the nomination at WP:ITN/C; I’m just not sure I’ll have the bandwidth for referencing the entry this week. (That obit alone is quite comprehensive though, and should go a long way, so maybe…) Innisfree987 (talk) 02:47, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

• I've moved her to the correct title (with accent) and added her to the list of surname-holders at López. PamD 05:28, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
  • (piling on) and I've added her picture. Sadly (see above) this is one of the routes for getting your picture on Wikipedia Victuallers (talk) 08:34, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
    • Thank you! A successful nomination, thanks especially to the efforts of editor Cedar777 who did quite a lot of work to bring the entry up to standard. Innisfree987 (talk) 09:37, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Women in photography

This looks interesting: https://hundredheroines.org/ PamD 08:49, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes, PamD, this certainly seems to deserve attention although looking at the As, with a few exceptions, those from the "past" who have bios on Hundred Heroines generally seem to be well documented on Wikipedia. A few of the "present" ones have articles while others appear at first sight to be notable enough for inclusion, e.g. Alinka Echeverría who would also qualify under our Latin-American focus.--Ipigott (talk) 10:34, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Notable American Women, 1607–1950

For those who had fun creating redlists of the missing names in the 25 thousand entry Dictionary of Women Worldwide, you can help out with the five volume Notable American Women, 1607–1950. Redlist in process here: Notable American Women. Good news, most of the names so far are blue! You can help out by correcting typos, creating redirects to match redlinks to articles, etc. Gamaliel (talk) 02:28, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Playing my song! Is it helpful to do some formatting (I notice some occupational categories are showing up as redlinks)? Innisfree987 (talk) 02:45, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

I used OpenRefine to add brackets to the whole list and forgot to filter out the section headers. Gamaliel (talk) 03:00, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

No problemo, I’ll help convert to subheds. Innisfree987 (talk) 03:13, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

some of the redlinks look like OCR errors. Should those just be corrected in the list? Dsp13 (talk) 11:33, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

yes, please! Gamaliel (talk) 14:56, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

70 Pacific women - one to watch out for!

Hello all! Looking for something else, I came across this campaign which celebrates 70 years of the Pacific Community by selecting (& I hope publishing a list of) 70 Pacific women who are role models! Lajmmoore (talk) 07:16, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Adding Dante's women to Wikipedia

The women who appear in Dante’s ‘Divine Comedy’ are finally getting their due, 700 years later. Interesting article by Laura Ingallinella on how students at Wellesley College are being encouraged to include articles about women in connection with Dante's Divine Comedy.--Ipigott (talk) 15:42, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Researcher asking for help: Are there archived red lists?

Hello everybody, let me first tell you, that I just got to know about WiR and I am amazed about what you guys are doing and how far you already got! I recently heard about it in a conference talk by Jess Wade, where she told the story of Gladys West got her wikipage and finally got the credit she deserved.

Now, I am a researcher in social sciences myself and this story got me thinking: Is this `just' a really cool anecdote or is there something going on here, i.e. is there a chance to measure the effect of WiR on female researcher recognition?

For that purpose I would need the old redlists, so I can identify the moment when a particular individual turned from `red to blue'. If I had this, I could try to make before/after comparisons e.g. google search queries, news media coverage, citations etc. Similar women still `in red' at the time could serve as a control group. (I could even try to restrict the control group to women who eventually turn blue some time later and try to extract variables from their wiki pages to make sure I only match the most similar control to each woman - wikipedia is just fantastic!).

Ok, so much for the pitch - here are my questions:

i. Do you know whether the outdated redlists are archived somewhere, so I could download them? Or are they just overwritten by the bot?

ii. If the old lists are gone, I could still try to extract the redlists directly from wikidata. But for that I would need to run the queries on an archived version where the WiR are not yet turned to blue, right? Do you know how to do that? Do I need to download the wiki data dumps? Where can I find archived data dumps?

iii. Is there maybe an easier way to do it? Each data dump is about 50GB large after extracting, so if I could avoid downloading all dumps since 2015 that would be great.

Maybe it has become obvious, but I must acknowledge that I am completely new to wikipedia and all this, so please bear with me if I am asking obvious things or if I am violating etiquette. -- Aaaasen (talk) 08:55, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Aaaasen: Use the 'View history' tab at the top-right when you're viewing a redlist, and you can see the different versions of it as generated by the bot since it was first set up, to see a specific version you click on the date that the edit was made. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 09:45, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Mike Peel: Alright, that is exactly what I need! Thank you very much! Aaaasen (talk) 11:07, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Aaaasen: It's great to see you intend to undertake research on our use of redlists. If you let us know exactly what you have in mind and why you think redlists rather than other statistics are of prime importance, we might be able to help you along. As you may have noticed, there are various kinds of redlist, those that are based on Wikidata and those we call "crowd-sourced" which are compiled by editors. There are also lists based on biographical dictionaries, etc. You may also find it useful to see how statistics on women's biographies have evolved over the years. If so, have a look at Humaniki, WDCM and Denelezh. You may also be interested in other related research papers which you'll find on the WiR research page. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.--Ipigott (talk) 15:28, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@Ipigott: Thank you for your reply and the links/ressources provided, I will check them out! I also appreciate your offer to assist, I will surely get back to you once I know enough to ask useful questions! Aaaasen (talk) 12:06, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Aaaasen: In the meantime, it would be useful if you could include a few works about your interests on your user page.--Ipigott (talk) 12:09, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Ipigott: Alright, thank you for the hint! Aaaasen (talk) 08:00, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sheila Steele

I have no idea if this activist is notable or not, but her article is up for deletion if any project members are interested in commenting.4meter4 (talk) 20:54, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sadia Sadia

Project members may wish to comment.4meter4 (talk) 20:04, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Arushi_Nishank

Another article on a woman up for deletion. Project members may wish to comment.4meter4 (talk) 00:13, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Woman in Red

The Matrix 4 trailer is out and I was surprised to see the Woman in Red was missing. I have also added Mouse, who wrote her code according to The Matrix.

Avindratalk 07:02, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bianca de la Garza

Project members may wish to comment.4meter4 (talk) 22:05, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. But, you know, we have another page Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Women where such AfDs can be listed, and where people who wish to comment on AfDs on women can find those AfDs and comment on them. It is not necessary to turn this talk page into a duplicate of that deletion sorting list. And despite the neutral wording of your announcements here, regularly announcing such AfDs at a board known to have the purpose of increasing Wikipedia's coverage of women could be seen as falling afoul of WP:CANVASS, and especially the bullet point about vote-banking in WP:CANVASS#Inappropriate notification. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:11, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

@4meter4. Thank you for the alert. After examining the sources I have voted to Delete. Xxanthippe (talk) 10:52, 12 September 2021 (UTC).

David Eppstein Neutral notifications of AFD discussions to interested wiki projects is clearly not considered canvassing per wikipedia:APPNOTE which states:

"An editor who may wish to draw a wider range of informed, but uninvolved, editors to a discussion can place a message at any of the following: The talk page or noticeboard of one or more WikiProjects or other Wikipedia collaborations which may have interest in the topic under discussion."

This project's interest is in women; so any AFD notification related to women placed here is appropriate under policy. Arguing that this is somehow canvassing is frankly the opposite of policy as written, and saying otherwise is basically arguing that WP:WikiProject Women in Red is somehow excluded from the rights granted to other wikiprojects under wikipedia:APPNOTE. That's a biased view which is essentially arguing that policy should not be applied the same to this project as to others. That's not cool. That said, thank you for making me aware of the project’s other page on AFDs.4meter4 (talk) 11:57, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Neutral notifications to WikiProjects are certainly covered by WP:APPNOTE, but I don't see how notifying some apparently random AfDs here is that helpful compared to Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Women (which I encourage everyone to watch). Why should some of these be notified here, and not all of them? That would make sense if the articles were part of a recent Women in Red event, for example. MarioGom (talk) 12:46, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

I wasn’t aware of the deletion sorting page until this conversation, but as for the one’s I posted, I simply felt the project members could assist in aiding the discussions without any particular agenda. Regardless, this page is seen by more editors and is therefore more likely to draw input at AFD/ assistance in locating RS then the alternative page which probably isn’t viewed by all that many project members. 4meter4 (talk) 13:15, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

@4meter4: There's also Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Article alerts, updated daily, which lists AfDs and PRODs, as well as a few other groupings. Also Wikipedia:WikiProject Women/Article alerts, which largely overlaps but isn't identical. Both are updated daily. PamD 15:33, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Women Editors

This article listed 10 Women to Watch Meet these news publishing leaders driving the industry forward .I have created

• Danielle Belton editor of HuffPost needs expansion
• Monica Richardson the first Afro American editor in 135 years of Miami Herald needs expansion
• Daisy Veerasingham also needs expansion ,
• Fanny Miller founder of El Latino San Diego.

This article listed 12 Of India's Most Powerful Female Editors.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:26, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I had a go at expanding the first article on the list earlier. It seems that the last article doesn't exist. Didn't you create it in the end or has it been speedied? RicDod (talk) 16:35, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

I did not create the last one. Thanks a lot.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 10:35, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Lady Rhondda's dinner guests

This fascinating website, unravelling the identities and stories of the guests at a 1933 dinner, including "28 gentlemen ... alongside almost 100 women, amongst them many of the pioneering women of the early 20th century" in honour of Lady Rhondda, may be useful. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:47, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

50 female inventors with the most cited patents worldwide

Hi all

I've done some collaboration with the UN World Intellectual Property Organization and have imported into Wikidata the 50 female inventors with the most cited patents worldwide. They will automatically be added to the redlist for inventors but I've also listed them below. Please do take a look and if you write any of the articles please do ping me, I'd really like to encourage them to share more data and having Wikipedia articles will really help. Thanks to Ipigott, Victuallers, Dodger67, Caeciliusinhorto who took part in the conversation which helped me compile this list.

Thanks very much

Sample of top 50 cited female inventors from WIPO

Update the list now |SPARQL |Find images

This list is automatically generated from data in Wikidata and is periodically updated by Listeriabot.
Edits made within the list area will be removed on the next update!

article	item	description	residence	image	other articles	WIPO URL
Diana Pani	Q108492128	Canadian electrical engineer and inventor	Canada			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22PANI%20DIANA%22)
Peiying Zhu	Q108492138		Canada			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22ZHU%20PEIYING%22)
Lene Lange	Q42038700	Danish bioengineer and inventor	Denmark			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22LANGE%20LENE%22)
Dorrit Anita Aaslyng	Q108492137		Denmark			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22AASLYNG%20DORRIT%20ANITA%22)
Lene Nonboe Andersen	Q108492140		Denmark			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22ANDERSEN%20LENE%20NONBOE%22)
Lene Venke Kofod	Q108492146		Denmark			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22KOFOD%20LENE%20VENKE%22)
Helle Outtrup	Q108492157		Denmark			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22OUTTRUP%20HELLE%22)
Grethe Nørskov Rasmussen	Q108492159	Danish businessperson, chemist, and inventor	Denmark			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22RASMUSSEN%20GRETHE%22)
Ulrike Wachendorffneumann	Q108492121		Germany			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22WACHENDORFF%20ULRIKE%22)
Olga Malsam	Q108492134		Germany			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22MALSAM%20OLGA%22)
Gisela Lorenz	Q108492139		Germany			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22LORENZ%20GISELA%22)
Anja Gerhard	Q108492147		Germany			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22GERHARD%20ANJA%22)
Astrid Maulermachnik	Q108492155		Germany			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22MAULERMACHNIK%20ASTRID%22)
Susanne Heun	Q108492165		Germany			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22HEUN%20SUSANNE%22)
Maria Scherer	Q108492169		Germany			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22SCHERER%20MARIA%22)
Esther Breuning	Q108492171		Germany			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22BREUNING%20ESTHER%22)
Anja Schwogler	Q108492181		Germany			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22SCHWOGLER%20ANJA%22)
Shinobu Takagi	Q77454913	researcher	Japan			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22TAKAGI%20SHINOBU%22)
Naoko Yamane	Q108492182		Japan			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22YAMANE%20NAOKO%22)
Chunyan Gao	Q108492136		People's Republic of China			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22GAO%20CHUNYAN%22)
Yunjung Yi	Q108492131		South Korea			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22YI%20YUNJUNG%22)
Camilla Corsi	Q108492167		Switzerland			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22CORSI%20CAMILLA%22)
Susan Adrienne Morgan	Q108492178		United Kingdom			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22MORGAN%20SUSAN%20ADRIENNE%22)
Victoria C. Smith	Q57413496	researcher	United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22SMITH%20VICTORIA%22)
Marta Karczewicz	Q63616632	Polish computer engineer and inventor	United States of America		pl, uk	https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22KARCZEWICZ%20MARTA%22)
Jennifer L Hillman	Q88474518	researcher	United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22HILLMAN%20JENNIFER%20L%22)
Katerina Leftheris	Q93062924	researcher (ORCID 0000-0002-6105-9263)	United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22LEFTHERIS%20KATERINA%22)
Aya Jakobovits	Q108492123		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22JAKOBOVITS%20AYA%22)
Mariah R. Baughn	Q108492125	American inventor (well cited)	United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22BAUGHN%20MARIAH%20R%22)
Sue Klapholz	Q108492127		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22KLAPHOLZ%20SUE%22)
Audrey Goddard	Q108492130		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22GODDARD%20AUDREY%22)
Preeti Lal	Q108492133		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22LAL%20PREETI%22)
Janet Stern-Berkowitz	Q108492135		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22STERNBERKOWITZ%20JANET%20A%22)
Olga Bandman	Q108492141		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22BANDMAN%20OLGA%22)
Michele Rollence	Q108492142		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22ROLLENCE%20MICHELE%22)
Yalda Azimzai	Q108492143		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22AZIMZAI%20YALDA%22)
Camellia W Adams	Q108492144		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22ADAMS%20CAMELLIA%20W%22)
Nalini M Desai	Q108492149		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22DESAI%20NALINI%20M%22)
Karen L Launis	Q108492150		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22LAUNIS%20KAREN%20L%22)
Kelly S Lewis	Q108492151		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22LEWIS%20KELLY%20S%22)
Martha S Wright	Q108492153		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22WRIGHT%20MARTHA%20S%22)
Janice Auyoung	Q108492161		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22AUYOUNG%20JANICE%22)
Celia Dominguez	Q108492163		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22DOMINGUEZ%20CELIA%22)
Erika Lotscher	Q108492172		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22LOTSCHER%20ERIKA%22)
Deborah L Culbertson	Q108492173		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22CULBERTSON%20DEBORAH%20L%22)
Ellen Myra Dobrusin	Q108492174		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22DOBRUSIN%20ELLEN%20MYRA%22)
Monique G Yao	Q108492175		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22YAO%20MONIQUE%20G%22)
Susan M Freier	Q108492176		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22FREIER%20SUSAN%20M%22)
Mary K Montgomery	Q108492179		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22MONTGOMERY%20MARY%20K%22)
Lisa Timmons	Q108492180		United States of America			https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/advancedSearch.jsf?query=ALLNAMES:(%22TIMMONS%20LISA%22)

End of auto-generated list.

John Cummings (talk) 13:03, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Inspiring list John, will be a nice target for our Ada Lovelace 24 Round the clock editathon - hope you can join us.?? Victuallers (talk) 13:55, 13 September 2021 (UTC) Is there any more stuff? I just looked up Mariah Baughn and found this. But its not clear if she IS the inventor we are looking for, as the Wikidata record is a start but there are no details. Can WIPO supply what she invented as that may help in identifying who is who. Victuallers (talk) 14:03, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Victuallers, yes, they're going to supply some references, however filtering for whats useful for Wikipedia is causing some issues, most of them have 1000s of references in other patents.... Can you send me a link to the editathon? John Cummings (talk) 15:28, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, John Cummings. Will the names in this list show up on our Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Inventors list? Also, your list includes a column for "residence", but not for "country of citizenship"; is there a reason for displaying in that way?

Regarding the WiR Wikidata Inventors list, it doesn't include a column for Wikidata Q number (which it should) and it does include a "#" column (which should be removed). Hoping our technical people can make these adjustments. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi Rosiestep yes it will show up in the inventors redlist list, it says country of residence because they only had patent application information for address, not nationality unfortunately. Thanks, John Cummings (talk) 16:43, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

I wonder how many of these are actually notable. I searched on the distinctively-named Deborah L Culbertson, & she is a chemist researching into insecticides for BASF and others. This https: -- oh naughty link - //www.patentsencyclopedia.com/app/20140364466 is one of her patents] (edit out my comment - this is blacklisted for some reeason) - she is the 8th named out of 12 inventors. The patent text is wonderfully incomprehensible. The rest of the google search doesn't give much more for an editor to go on< & not enough to pass AFD I think. Johnbod (talk) 15:52, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Johnbod, I had similar thoughts. I think its a mixed bag. Lene Lange likely is notable based on her citation counts, Diana Pani possibly not...I supposed this is the case with all the redlink indexes. In some cases, redirects could be helpful if editors add mentions of them (when appropriate) to an existing article related to a concept or invention. TJMSmith (talk) 16:14, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi Johnbod and TJMSmith I was told that citation count would count towards notability, which you also say above. Each of them have 100s of citations on PatentScope which is the worldwide database of patents (appears to be undergoing maintainance when I just checked). I'm unable to work out from the guidance if patent citations count towards notability on Wikipedia, do you know? John Cummings (talk) 16:43, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't - David Eppstein probably does. Johnbod (talk) 17:00, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Re pinging, as I messed the link to David Eppstein Johnbod (talk) 17:02, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't recall ever seeing an AfD where citations to patents were used, successfully or unsuccessfully, as an argument for WP:PROF#C1. My tendency would be to think that they do not count, because they are different from the sort of scholarly contribution that WP:PROF is supposed to be about, but it's hard to predict how other participants would react. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:06, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

I worked on the columns issues for Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Inventors but there's one more issue. While there's a column now for "site links", the number of site links isn't showing up. Can someone sort out why? Also, the names in John Cummings list now show up on the WiR Inventors (WD) list. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:43, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

fixed --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:51, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Tagishsimon, thanks! Rosiestep (talk) 20:40, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

• It looks to me as if there could be serious problems of notability if a women is part of a large team of inventors, as mentioned in the patent application and related citations. If anyone has time, it would be useful to look into this more carefully. Perhaps we could include names which really appear to deserve articles in crowd-sourced red lists such as Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Science, including refs to valid sources. This could help with the creation of articles in future events. John Cummings: Do you think WIPO would be able to assist with this, in particular by highlighting patents including women in, say, teams of up to three inventors? It would also be useful if they could provide information about women along the lines of the EPO's Women inventors.--Ipigott (talk) 11:41, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

If it would be helpful, I can run an analysis on Scopus metrics (total citations, number of papers, h-index, top 5 paper citations) for each woman in comparison to those of her extended coauthors to get a sense of relative scholarly impact. This would of course only be useful for those in (mainly academic) research. On my user page I have a similar list of highly-cited redlinked women who showed up among the coauthors of AfD nominees. JoelleJay (talk) 11:54, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Looking at those from Denmark, the following appear to be notable enough for inclusion:

• • Grethe Nørskov Rasmussen: pharmaceuticals researcher, Chief Development Officer at FluoGuide A/S [6], [7], [8]

• Lene Lange, Biotechnology researcher at DTU, [9], [10], [11]

--Ipigott (talk) 12:21, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

2021 Women's March

Not a biography, but project members may be interested in watchlisting or improving 2021 Women's March. Thanks! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 22:02, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Mentors needed for Growth features

Hello Women in Red participants! I'm Marshall Miller; I'm the product manager for the Growth team at WMF. I last posted here about the Growth features in June, when we were starting the trial of giving the features to 2% of new accounts. After looking at the results of that trial, community members decided to proceed with increasing the share of new accounts getting the features to 25%. An important part of the Growth features is the "mentorship module" (see accompanying image), in which the new accounts are each assigned a mentor from a list of experienced editors who have signed up to take part. For now, we'll only be scaling the mentorship part up to 5% of new accounts, because we need more mentors in order to go further.

Presentation of the "mentorship module" on the newcomer homepage.

I'm writing now because many of you are excellent mentors for newcomers, and it would be a big help if you were to sign up and your names to the list (we're looking for about 10 more mentors). We consider this to be a relatively lightweight commitment -- rather than an ongoing committed mentorship relationship, the work here is mostly about answering one-off questions from newcomers who are stuck on things like adding images, adding references, or writing a new article. Once you're on the list, you'll start getting new accounts assigned to you automatically, which means that questions will start appearing on your User Talk page, which you can just answer right there. You might expect to receive about 5 questions per week.

You can read more details about the features on the project page, and about community experiences with mentorship on the talk page. To try out the features yourself, you can follow these instructions. Please let me know if you have any questions! MMiller (WMF) (talk) 00:05, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

I have just joined up and hope others will too. Keeping new editors engaged and supported is a worthwhile activity. I'll report back to WiR about how it goes when I've been assigned a mentee and had some experience. Oronsay (talk) 21:02, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

MMiller (WMF), I've joined up! Lajmmoore (talk) 11:57, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Nancy Unger

I started an entry on Nancy Unger who chairs the history department at the Santa Clara University and wrote books on American women environmentalists and a couple of other activists including Belle La Follette. She also seems to be a bit of an activist or at least politically active herself. I thought she might be of interest here and certainly there's more on her and her work to cover. Thanks. FloridaArmy (talk) 01:12, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Woodrow Wilson

I didn't see the issue of women's suffrage and women's rights isn't noted much (is it mentioned at all?) in this entry which seems strange to me. Wilson's record as a racist and segregationist is also whitewashed. As far as women's issue some of the history is covered in the article on his re-election. It seems that this important aspect of his and U.S. history deserves appropriate coverage. Noting here in case there's interest in fixing the problem. FloridaArmy (talk) 01:27, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

MacKenzie v. Hare

This U.S. Supreme Court case, which I just redirected, should have its own entry if anyone is interested. FloridaArmy (talk) 02:02, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Israli paralympic female competitor Michal Escapa (IPC profile) is also a swimmer?

How many chances are there that another woman named Escapa has always competed in Tokyo 1964 but for Italy and winning two medals in swimming? --Kasper2006 (talk) 11:00, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Maryana Iskander

The WMF has a new CEO: Maryana Iskander (https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2021/09/14/wikimedia-foundation-appoints-maryana-iskander-as-chief-executive-officer/). --Rosiestep (talk) 16:00, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

And here Maryana tells the Wikimedia movement how Women in Red was involved in the creation of her Wikipedia article. Thank you to WiR member, JRandomF! --Rosiestep (talk) 16:46, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you all for contributing to her Wikipedia biography. Isn't it great to have one more woman as our CEO? Excellent choice! But I see we'll have to wait until 5 January for her official takeover. Does she have a user name?--Ipigott (talk) 17:55, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Proposal to make it more difficult to include maiden names

At Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography#Postulating on eliminating inclusion of non-notable names for any individual, there is a proposal to prevent us from including former names for people (in particular maiden names for women who changed their names on marriage) unless they achieved notability under the former name or the former name is covered by "high-quality" sources. This would appear to prevent, e.g., routine marriage announcements from being used to source maiden names. Note that this is for all biographies, not just living people. Please weigh in there if you have an opinion. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:57, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Just added a comment there. I hope more WiR participants will join in as I think it's very concerning.--Oronsay (talk) 20:25, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing this to our attention @David Eppstein and Oronsay:. Note that the proposal would eliminate not just former names, but later names as well. Thus someone who retains a notable name after marriage for continuity of career, but uses a married name civilly, would have no childhood, nor death, as the only allowable sources would refer to the notable name. Why does this smack of stealing women's nationality, oops I meant identity? SusunW (talk) 21:33, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank goodness it's been so strongly opposed. I have just written separate articles on three Danish sisters, all of whom were writers. Avoiding their maiden names would have made it impossible to discuss their relationship. A more sensible proposal would have been to include maiden names where possible.--Ipigott (talk) 08:33, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Input requested

Hello all. Input is requested at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation#Removing actress as a dab word?. I don’t have a pre-set opinion on this, but considering so many articles are involved I think there should be some discussion before a massive change like this is fully implemented.4meter4 (talk) 10:07, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

New Jersey Women

This book, Past and Promise: Lives of New Jersey Women, by the Women's Project of New Jersey on important New Jersey women is great. FloridaArmy (talk) 16:05, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Turkish and French biographies, requesting help

Greetings,

Lately we initiated biography article draft Turkish–Circassian author Draft:Hayriye Melek Hunç and there is further scope for article expansion. Good number of sources are in Turkish language hence we are looking for article expansion support or translation support for Draft:Hayriye Melek Hunç. Some refs are available @ Draft talk:Hayriye Melek Hunç

Similarly there is one French author tr:Alexandre Toumarkine who seems to have worked on Turkish sources. Sources related to the author seem to be in French or Turkish so looking for help in creating a biography article about tr:Alexandre Toumarkine.

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 05:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Women Citizens League(s)

Hello all, I saw this tweet yesterday, which got me immediately see what I could find out! It seems like the Women Citizens League had branches all over the world (not just Leeds). I've put what I could discover in my sandbox but there's not a lot! I wondered if other people had come across the organisation/s? I'm particularly keen to see if I can work out when the whole thing started? Thanks in advance Lajmmoore (talk) 08:30, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Lajmmoore: Looking at the draft on your user page, it seems to me as if "Women Citizens League" became a generic term for associations involved in suffrage, etc. In some cases, suffrage organizations simply seem to have changed their name once the right to vote had been obtained. I don't think they are necessarily inter-related but I may be wrong. There are/were also a number of organizations calling themselves "Citizens League".--Ipigott (talk) 09:48, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

At least in the UK the suffragettes/suffragists created several women citizen organisations including what became the Townswomen's Guild. The organisation's included the objective of educating the new voters about the mechanism (and opportunities) of government. I would be very interested in finding a way to approach say the Women's Institute on the opportunity they/we have for changing the future. The gendergap in bad but its amazing that everyone of us has the power to fix it. Victuallers (talk) 15:35, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

#WikiAda24

This carries on the conversation above as per Ian's suggestion. On October 12th we will be celebrating Ada Lovelace and Women in STEM. Women in Red has seen this as an opportunity to raise our profile and do some recruitment. At Midday in New Zealand the day will start with the launch of an editathon. As #WikiAda24 continues the baton will be picked up by Australia. We have made a lot of progress. The NZ WIR editors are organised and ready with a press release, zoom links, eventbrite announcements, trainers (and handholders) ready to support the day. WMAU are committed. In the UK we have Emmeline Pankhurst's house booked and the eventbrites etc created. Trainers are booked and we understand that there may be one in Scotland too. At the moment we are reaching out to find editors in the Americas who could carry the editathon forward. New Zealand are prepared to finish the day

Have a look [here] - the detail is increasing. If you are in UK, NZ or AU then we can sign you up ... if you are not then we really want to speak to you. This is a great opportunity to show off our collaboration. Can you see how you might help? Be Bold. Victuallers (talk) 15:59, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Maeva Douma

Hi. I always like to promote my work when it's more than just a stub for this project. Please see my latest creation, Maeva Douma, a 16 year old cricketer from Cameroon, who made her international debut last week. Thanks! Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 08:55, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi there, Lugnuts. Always good to hear from you. I've just been looking at the huge number of new articles about cricketers and footballers you have created over the past few weeks. As you probably know, sports is one of the areas which keeps the percentage of women's biographies so low. It would therefore be great if you could try to create more articles about women, even short stubs. I'm pretty sure that would significantly improve our stats. Let's see how things go over the next month or so.--Ipigott (talk) 08:52, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

@Ipigott: Thank you - and it's almost if you've read my mind! Women footballers are my next little project. A list like this has so many redlinks, and it's not alone. And to help, I created a quick stub only a few minutes ago for this cyclist. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 08:57, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Lugnuts: Sounds great! Keep up the good work!--Ipigott (talk) 10:33, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

I think it would be preferable (although not for raw stats, I guess) to write more pages like you did on Douma -- detailed, fleshed-out articles with SIGCOV sources -- rather than more stubs. You might also consider adding Douma's feat to the Mankading description if it's DUE (I don't know if the coverage included discussion on how the dismissals were regarded re: Spirit of Cricket). JoelleJay (talk) 17:04, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Alice Badiangana / Alice Mahoungou - French help needed

Hello all! I'm not sure if @Ipigott: or any other French speakers could help? By accident the Congolese trade unionist Alice Badiangana/Alice Mahoungou ended up with separate English pages (my fault - the spellings of the redirect are different and I didn't notice). I've merged the page I created with the existing one, and I think that's OK. However, on FR she also has two pages: fr:Alice Badiangana and fr:Alice Mahoungou - would someone who speaks French be able to merge them? Then we can merge their wikidatas [12], [13] and things will be tidier! I have zero French, sadly! Lajmmoore (talk) 19:23, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

As our good friend Nattes à chat is one of the editors of Aice Mahoungou, perhaps she would like to take care of it.--Ipigott (talk) 08:23, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Move percentage to subpage?

I noticed that a lot of edits to the project page are to update the statistic of the percentage of articles about women. Would folks here appreciate it if that was moved to a subpage to reduce watchlist clutter, or are the updates done directly on that page intentionally? If it's kept here, it should probably be wrapped in a labeled section so it can be transcluded to other pages. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 00:25, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for raising this. A separate template - Template:Wikidata Human Gender Indicators - is used on the WIR meetup pages and elsewhere throughout the project. I'd like the stats to stay as is, as View history is a useful way to track the steady increase. Not sure what you mean by "reduce watchlist clutter" as the main reason I follow the WIR project page is to see the changes on this, its Talk page, where there are changes every day.--Oronsay (talk) 01:18, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

By no means my greatest struggle in life but since asked, I would be happy for an option to watch this talk page without the % updates. Innisfree987 (talk) 02:35, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

As the updates are manual, we could perhaps reduce them to once a month.--Ipigott (talk) 07:05, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea, reducing overall number of updates but giving change over a salient interval like a month. Innisfree987 (talk) 16:35, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Looking back at the last 500 edits on this board, I calculate we see 92 updates per week on talk. And (bar errors when transcribing figures) 1 update per week for stats on the main page. This is not a "problem" worth solving. The figures are not transcluded anywhere - at least, not in the phrasing used on the main page. Weekly figures are the expectation of avid stats watchers. I'd be as happy if we left things as they are. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:09, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

So would I. But there's actually a serious problem with the main WiR page. I often update items in the announcements, research, etc., but because of the X-project set up, these are not reflected for page watchers. That's probably the reason no one ever notices them. It may be a good idea to introduce standard page setup.--Ipigott (talk) 17:02, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

New article on memoirist/Holocaust survivor: Sabina Zimering

I nominated Sabina Zimering at WP:ITN/C as her death was announced yesterday. Wish I knew more about how she became one of the only women and Jews to attend medical school immediately following WWII. Would appreciate if anyone could do a copyedit (I wrote it quickly). If someone found an photo, that would be great! TJMSmith (talk) 15:21, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Is there a way to track the total and mean/median kBs dedicated to women's bios?

Sorry if this has been discussed (I know depth of coverage has been a topic in the past, but I don't recall this metric explicitly being brought up). I'd be really interested to see a comparison of article length between men's and women's bios. It's not a great measure of depth per se, but it does represent editor attention to some extent and so might be valuable to track. JoelleJay (talk) 17:15, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

JoelleJay: While I am not aware of any research specifically based on the length of articles, there have been a number of comparative studies including one on Women through the glass ceiling: gender asymmetries in Wikipedia. I see, by the way, you have an interesting STEM women's redlist on your user page.--Ipigott (talk) 19:39, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Ipigott, thanks for the article link, that research is really interesting! This passage especially hit home for me: For example, the Finkbeiner test [10] suggests that an article about a woman often emphasizes the fact that she is a woman, mentions her husband and his job, her children and childcare arrangements, how she nurtures her underlings, how she is taken aback by the competitiveness in her field, and how she is such a role model for other women. This is definitely something to be mindful of when writing our biographies. I personally find it so frustrating that women, especially in STEM, are expected to be active mentors to other women and to participate in efforts to increase diversity (to a much greater extent than men); some of us are introverted and awkward and antisocial and forcing us into performative roles where we feel judged as representatives of our gender isn't helpful for anyone. Like, sorry, being the only woman senior researcher in the lab doesn't mean she's equipped or willing to guide every single new female intern! That's barely a step up from automatically being added to the party-planning committee! JoelleJay (talk) 00:02, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't know any either, but I'm not sure what it would prove. I'd guess that both of the following statements are true:

a) the 10/20/30 % of longest biographies on WP are even more heavily male than the overall average.

b) the 10/20/30 % of shortest biographies on WP are even more heavily male than the overall average.

Johnbod (talk) 00:08, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Based on my purely anecdotal evidence, where an article exists, it's more likely to be of a decent quality if it's on a woman than a man, but that doesn't mean much. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 00:31, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

• JoelleJay: If you are interested in more general research on women vs. men on Wikipedia, we have a list of pertinent papers at Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Research.--Ipigott (talk) 09:46, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Marina Voikhanskaya

Hello, I prepared this draft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Marina_Voikhanskaya and I would ask whether it could be included in the project WomeninRed and published in the main space. Could you please review it? ThanksMorningbastet (talk) 12:23, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Interesting...

I often find myself commenting that the history of women has only been studied since the 1970s, thus much of women's personal stories and the work that they did was also obscured. Since they were so heavily involved in activism and humanitarian work, in the absence of social service organizations, I found this particularly interesting..."[T]he history of humanitarian interventions has only become a new branch of contemporary historiography in the past 20 years, whereas it had been previously 'treated as a subject without history'.(Limbert 2015, p 4) The struggle is real. SusunW (talk) 13:30, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

I find it interesting too. I purchased a used copy of "The Power of Feminist Art: The American Movement of the 1970s, History and Impact" and am realizing how important the 70s were. I was taking way to much for granted about the collective effort of women to add women into history. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 15:43, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

SusunW: It may well be true that "humanitarian interventions" has only recently become a branch of historiography but I must say I have been impressed with the detailed coverage of a number of Danish women writers in the Dansk Biografisk Lexikon which was completed in 1905. Much - but certainly not all - of the research has been republished in today's Dansk Biografisk Leksikon. But maybe the reason I have been looking at these articles is simply because we have now begun to look more carefully into the history of writers and their influence on the development of humanitarianism. In any case, I've been trying to cover some of those who have been forgotten.--Ipigott (talk) 16:00, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes! WomenArtistUpdates, incredibly important and often forgotten because to many the civil rights era ended in the 1960s...sigh. Women's studies, ethnic studies, gender studies all emerged in the 1970s, as did landmark decisions (Roe, limits to torture in interrogation) and legislation (Title 9, Equal Pay Act 1970), and, and, and. Ipigott, my guess at the renewed study would be the recognition, finally, of intersectionality. For millennia, history was the tale of great men with everyone else sitting on the sidelines watching them "be great". Isolated efforts were made to tell other stories, but often these were one-dimensional, focused categories of people, like writers, suffragists, trade unionists, etc. With the rise of women's, ethnic, and gender studies and the attempt to study and weave these experiences in to the greater historic record, one could begin to see the interconnections of how these groups interacted and impacted history. Just my theory, but I think it is important to remember because it explains why sourcing is so difficult for under- and unrepresented topics in the encyclopedia. SusunW (talk) 16:33, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

And to my complete chagrin now SusunW, Dr. Gerard was one of my professors! While I was gazing out the window. she was organizing. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 16:48, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

WomenArtistUpdates, one of the reasons I pushed so hard for WiR to focus on gender studies and academics each April. While they were collecting stories and publishing about historic figures, many of those early academics in the field did not even think about writing about each other and the pioneering work they were doing. It is only as we are beginning to lose them that their work comes into focus and is recognized for its importance. SusunW (talk) 17:21, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

SusunW, Indeed, I can't seem to find enough reliable sources to write an article on Jacqueline Skiles, and she really should have one :( WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 17:45, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

WomenArtistUpdates Yes, totally frustrating. I tried to search and as you say, mostly snippets. SusunW (talk) 18:23, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

WomenArtistUpdates, perhaps info on Skiles can be added to Women Artists in Revolution and Art Workers' Coalition. Maybe a historian will publish a scholarly work on her life that can be used in a biographical entry. TJMSmith (talk) 18:34, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Also speaking of women's studies academics, I finally started Jane Sherron De Hart since hearing about her last winter. She founded a women's studies department in the 1970s. TJMSmith (talk) 21:40, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Ah, a two-fer - Women writers and Women's Leadership! WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 00:14, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Bot not updating Missing articles list

The list Missing articles by occupation/Artists-Canada was moved March 18, after which listeria bot seems to have stopped automatically updating the page. I imagine the path from the bot to the page is broken; pinging User:Sadads who (I think) created and moved it from their user space. --- Possibly ☎ 22:06, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

The report had SPARQL issues, which are now fixed; and so it now runs as well as Listeria reports run. I've added it to the redlist index. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:03, 22 September 2021 (UTC)