Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds

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IOC Version 8.1 (Jan 25, 2018)[edit]

new taxonomic changes are out from the IOC (published yesterday). I'll get to 'em as I have time, but feel free if the mood strikes you......Pvmoutside (talk) 18:10, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Have done some. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:35, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
Please could an administrator move: White-headed stilt -> Pied stilt Thanks Aa77zz (talk) 14:56, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
looks like 2 species are called pied stilt. The pied stilt now redirects to the black-winged stilt. I can switch the white-headed to pied per IOC, and have a redirect note on the black-winged stilt page if no one objects.......Pvmoutside (talk) 15:17, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
You should probably put a hatnote on the pied (as was white-headed) stilt page too, with a link to the black-winged stilt page. MeegsC (talk) 15:39, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
MeegsC...done....Pvmoutside (talk) 14:02, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Please be careful about WP:ENGVAR and WP:TIES. IOC probably has some spelling convention of its own, which likely violates the Wikipedia guideline. Also, as far as I know, Wikipedia common name policy applies, not whatever some particular external authority chooses to use. —BarrelProof (talk) 17:28, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Copy of my message posted on User talk:Pvmoutside#Undiscussed WP:ENGVAR moves BarrelProof, what's the tie? The munia occurs only in the BE countries of South Asia, the hawk and the thrasher don't occur in any English-speaking and the catbird's range includes the BE countries in the Caribbean, such as Jamaica. Three of these species don't occur in the US, and, despite what many Americans think, it's not compulsory for all New World countries to speak AE yet. Please revert your incorrect edits Jimfbleak - talk to me? 17:41, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
Yes, exactly. The Tricoloured munia is only in BE countries. So the article about it should use BE spelling. If you take a look, you will see that I was objecting to a change from BE to AE, not the other way around. Also, WP:ENGVAR is not just about WP:TIES. If a spelling convention has already been established in an article, it should not be arbitrarily changed. Please also note that my comment here did not mention any particular articles. I just said to please be careful about WP:ENGVAR and WP:TIES. Do you disagree with that? Have you seen me making any "incorrect edits"? —BarrelProof (talk) 18:05, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
  • As a non-member of this Wikiproject I predict that changing the spelling of IOC English names to match editors' consensus on the ENGVAR to be used will produce endless conflicts, so seems to me to be a thoroughly bad idea. It also prevents proper sourcing of the English names. Peter coxhead (talk) 19:49, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
    • This discussion isn't (at least primarily) about changing the spelling of IOC English names. It's about changing Wikipedia names to match IOC spellings. Is there some guideline that says not to follow WP:ENGVAR for birds? This discussion reminds me a bit of when we used to have a different capitalization rule for birds and butterflies than for everything else on Wikipedia. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:26, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
      • in this case we are talking about the name of the animal, not the language used. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:34, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
        • Specifically, I think we're primarily talking about the spelling of the name of the animal, and perhaps also the spelling within the affected articles. We might also find ourselves discussing other aspects of the names, in cases where there could be a difference between the actual WP:COMMONNAME and the name selected by IOC, using whatever criteria they use. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:54, 10 February 2018 (UTC)


So, I just noticed something very odd recently. We have the New World vultures in a separate order, when the IOC (supported by genetic studies) consider them to be included in the order Accipitriformes. So, why don't we redirect the article on Cathartiformes to Accipitriformes, and correct the species/genus/family articles? RileyBugz会話投稿記録 21:47, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

I have no problem with that. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:56, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
Done!.....Pvmoutside (talk) 14:03, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

who wants to work on what...[edit]

Righto, keeping the production line going (seems to have slowed a little...). I have been working on orange-bellied parrot and letter-winged kite (both sporadically), and have a hankering to do red-tailed tropicbird or masked booby as I have just seen a bunch of them in Norfolk Island up close. I noticed red-headed woodpecker was in a bit of a sorry state and started tinkering today. I can see RileyBugz wants to work on yellow-bellied sapsucker and tree swallow at some point. Our collaboration page has parrot, Toco toucan and Corvus, plus Sabine's Sunbird were/are working on Steller's sea eagle...but just run out of a bit of puff on that one as the whole superlative thing is a bit of a quagmire and the sources and text don't exactly match...sigh...I can see Aa77zz has been working on the Crowned pigeons anyway, just seeing if anyone has any enthusiasm for one of these or something else. Seeing where we're up to. One way of keeping up momentum is buffing something that is already GA or a collaboration. I am open to suggestions, or I'll just tinker if no-one is up for a collaboration. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:14, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm still in extinct bird territory, and would like to get Lord Howe swamphen somewhere, but I need the entries about the bird from Ripley 1977 and Taylor & Perlo 2000... Adityavagarwal was also interested in collaborating on Seychelles parakeet, but I haven't heard anything from him for a while. And by the way, now that this projects's hot articles[1] link is working, it should be easier to see what's being worked on. FunkMonk (talk) 09:28, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
I'm still working on cleaning up after the IOCv8.1 changes. Splits can involve significant changes to existing articles. I like to briefly explain the background and cite the studies behind the decision to split species. - Aa77zz (talk) 10:04, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
FunkMonk, if it's any use - I happen to have the 1998 version of Taylor and Perlo here, and could send you a scan of the two pages in question. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 11:26, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, I assume there would be little new info in the 2000 edition. I'll send you an email now so you have somewhere to send it to. FunkMonk (talk) 11:28, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
Alright, sent. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 11:55, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, got it! FunkMonk (talk) 12:08, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
I find (recently) extinct articles too depressing... :( Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:33, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
I just noticed that Wikipedia:There is a deadline seems to indicate that documenting recently extinct animals (as exemplified by a photo of a golden toad) is part of saving potentially lost knowledge, which is a nice way to look at it... Or at least that's how I choose to interpret it! FunkMonk (talk) 13:46, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
Cas and I are working on the red-tailed tropicbird. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 03:12, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
Can some of you who haven't looked at preening (bird) in a while have a gander and let us know what you think is still missing? I know the lead needs expansion, and I'd like to add a bit more about feather structure (so an explanation of "zipping up" the barbules makes more sense), but otherwise, I think it's pretty close now. I'm hoping we can take this one to GA soon. MeegsC (talk) 11:17, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Indian paradise flycatcher[edit]

Hello bird experts. Could someone help me with this old query please? The photos I have of the bird is a white long-tailed flycatcher from Sri Lanka. Is T.p. leucogaster ("Himalayan paradise flycatcher", as mentioned on the article) the correct identification? Thank you in advance! Rehman 04:09, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Rehman: Almost certainly impossible for these to be reliably identified (by anyone) to subspecies simply by looking at photographs. Worse is that the populations and the genetics of the colour forms are not well worked out. If you saw the bird breeding in Sri Lanka and the attendant adult male was rufous (and not white) then it would be the supposed T. p. ceylonensis but if you saw it in winter you can give up all hope as you will also have males from the Indian populations (whether they are T. p. paradisi or T. p. leucogaster or both is yet another unsolved puzzle - the difference between them according to Ali and Ripley is that the latter tends to have a slightly narrower bill!) where the males could have either rufous or white plumages depending on age or population. The idea of starting articles for subspecies is not something that has clear consensus on WP:BIRD, and is especially problematic when all that can be achieved is a polluted mess of unreliable media and associated information. Shyamal (talk) 09:50, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
I agree with @Shyamal:. I've replaced the Ceylon paradise flycatcher article with a redirect to the Indian paradise flycatcher. It didn't contain any information not already present in the Indian paradise flycatcher article. According to Birds of South Asia (Rasmussen and Anderton 2012 Vol 2, 2nd Ed pp.332-333) the race ceylonensis is "slightly paler above and on breast than nominate". - Aa77zz (talk) 10:16, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for the detailed replies Shyamal and Aa77zz. I took this photo in November 2016 (in Pannipitiya, Sri Lanka), and this photo in February 2018 (in Puttalam, Sri Lanka). While both are long-tailed with white plumage, I guess there's no way of knowing the exact subspecies per above...
On a separate note, would either one of you know what is the species of this bird and this bird? I went on a birdwatching safari and managed to identify most birds, and but couldn't identify these two... They were all spotted in Wilpattu National Park. Thank you in advance! :-) Rehman 16:56, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
I've never visited Sri Lanka and don't go birding - but I'll make a guess. It is difficult to make out the colour of your first link - but my guess is a green imperial pigeon - see here. Your second link looks like a grey heron (Ardea cinerea) that I see in parks near my home in London. - Aa77zz (talk) 22:08, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, Aa77zz. :-) Rehman 22:37, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Article title spellings[edit]

There is a discussion underway following a move request for grey hawk. At its heart is whether we should continue to follow IOC spellings for article titles or allow changes to the spellings to fit the ENGVAR in use of the country where the species is located. Please review and comment if interested. Loopy30 (talk) 23:25, 20 February 2018 (UTC)