Talk:Together (coalition)

Translation as "Together Citizens"

"Ensemble Citoyens" translates as "Together Citizens", "Citizens Together" would rather be the translation of "Citoyens Ensemble". This page should probably be renamed. Julio974◆ (Talk-Contribs) 11:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

I prefer "Citizens Together", but, as there are different views, what about dicussing here? --Checco (talk) 17:25, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

« Ensemble citoyen ! » is kind of like a rallying cry for citizens to join Macron. Citizens together don’t really convey that idea and seem to mean that this alliance is a bunch of citizens around Macron which is not the same think. So it’s why I think « Together citizens » is more appropriate. Jazerty268 (talk) 17:23, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 28 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Favonian (talk) 18:29, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

---

Citizens Together → Ensemble Citoyens – The translation "Citizens Together", besides being probably wrong (the most correct translation seems to me "Together citizens!"), is also unused by the sources. In the absence of a certain translation or used by the sources, the title of this page should be the original name (also for consistency with Ensemble!). Scia Della Cometa (talk) 12:13, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:UE. Since the untranslated "Ensemble Citoyens" doesn't appear to be commonly used by English-language reliable sources, we translate it. 162 etc. (talk) 15:18, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@162 etc.: WP:UE reads "translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy"; well "Citizens Together" is almost certainly an inaccurate translation of "Ensemble Citoyens!".--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 15:40, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

• If that is the case, the solution is a better translation. 162 etc. (talk) 16:58, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

• Support. We don't translate for the hell of it, especially if there is not a single accepted or accurate translation. This is a common misconception. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:22, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support - Per WP:UE, "In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage. If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader." This does not have an established translation, particularly looking at these sources ([[1]] [[2]]) reliable sources are either not translating it or translating it differently to this. There therefore is no established English translation for this name. The present name loses accuracy (particularly the exclamation mark) and ahmpers understanding that this is a French organsiation that is being talked about. A GNews search for "Citizens Together" does not even bring up a relevant result for the French organisation in the first ten pages of results, whilst a search for the French name brings up only relevant results. FOARP (talk) 12:59, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Political positions/ideologies

LREM: Left (dated),[3] Centrist[4] and Third-Way,[5], [6] Social Liberal,[7] Reformist, Progressive[8], technocratic[9]

MoDem: Centrist (water is wet)

EC: Ecologist/Green, Centre-Left, "social justice".[10]

Territories & Progress: Left[11] to Centre-Left,[12], Social democracy[13], [14]

Progressive Federation: Left,[15], [16], [17] [18]

Horizons (Édouard Philippe): Centre-Right[19], [20]

EnlightenmentNow1792 (talk) 09:00, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Centre to centre-right

I think the political position should be written "Centre" instead of "Centre to centre-right". Member parties range from center-right to center-left, and even green-affiliated left-wing party. The political position of the REN is also "Centre". Mureungdowon (talk) 07:06, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

There are reliable sources that refer the coalition as centre-right though, so whatever position is listed on their articles does not matter for this one. Vacant0 (talk) 11:52, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

However, the coalition is better described as "centrist". We should weigh sources... --Checco (talk) 21:28, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

There are only reliable sources that describe the coalition as either centrist or centre-right. Excluding any of these positions would be undue. Vacant0 (talk) 21:53, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Some sources might be more reliable and numerous than others. Btw, by European standards, the coalition is centrist. --Checco (talk) 21:54, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

I agree with Checco. Ensemble is overwhelmingly described as a centrist rather than a center-right. The French Wikipedia also describes the group as simply centrist. "Centre-right" should be removed from the infobox. Mureungdowon (talk) 08:02, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

That's not how it works. What matter is what reliable sources say and in this case both "centrist" and "centre-right" are backed up. Vacant0 (talk) 14:39, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

There are also sources for "centre-left". User:Mureungdowon is right that "Ensemble is overwhelmingly described as a centrist rather than a center-right". It is quite wrong to cite every sourced information, but only those that are overwhelmingly supported by reliable sources. --Checco (talk) 15:28, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Can you present those sources here? Vacant0 (talk) 15:32, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Of course some sources are more high-profile than others, by the way a quick search through Google gives thousands of hits for ""centrist ensemble" macron" and very few for "centre-right ensemble" macron". That "centrist" is much more common description than "centre-right" for this grouping is self-evident to me. --Checco (talk) 15:56, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm in favor of removing "centre-right" from the infobox (not the article) then. Vacant0 (talk) 15:59, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I am not, because a majority of the seats of this coalition leans towards centre-right (Horizons 30 seats, Democratic Movement 47 seats, UDI 8 = total 85), not centre-left (En Commun 4, FP 2 = total 6). Renaissance might be centrist, but the total Together coalition leans towards centre to centre-right. 2A02:A447:6A8F:1:A05C:F6A5:B149:7BC4 (talk) 17:36, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Request to move (Ensemble Citoyens => Ensemble (coalition))

It seems that Ensemble changed the name, and it's reflected in the French Wikipedia article name, but not here. PorazonyCreeper (talk) 17:42, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

I agree. Probably, "Ensemble (political coalition)" or "Together (political coalition)" would be even better. I favour the latter. --Checco (talk) 15:58, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Registered Name

Is the alliance registered as its current name with the relevant electoral commission? Or is it still registered as its former name? ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 11:04, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Liberalism / social-liberalism

Hi @Checco: there is no source centered on Ensemble, but cf. Talk:Renaissance (French political party)#Liberalism / social-liberalism. Fourmidable (talk) 15:55, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, there is a consensus on that talk page to describe the party as simply liberal in the infobox. However, let's discuss there. --Checco (talk) 18:45, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 16 June 2024

Start

The coalition in a nearly identical shape already ran in the 2021 French regional elections and 2019 European Parliament election in France I think it should be merged. The former Renaissance list is now even called "L'Europe Ensemble" Braganza (talk) 18:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Support this seems like a no-brainer, it's the same coalition, no? GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 12:41, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Support I don't see why it shouldn't. @Impru20, Number 57, Braganza, Checco, Helper201, Tyrosian, Autospark, Davide King, and HapHaxion: What are your views? ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 11:40, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Support. Yeah, these are basically the same construct, even if named slightly differently for specific elections (which is actually not a too rare event). Both articles should probably be merged, preserving as much info as possible. Impru20^talk 11:42, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Support Agree --Vacant0 (talk) 12:52, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 16 June 2024

Together (coalition) → Ensemble (political coalition) – I don't recall seeing the coalition named as "Together" anywhere. I renamed it to its current name, thinking that all French pages used English translations (which I was mistaken). As a result, I've found more references to it being called Ensemble than Together.[21][22][23][24][25][26] ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 09:45, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Strong support for a single article called Ensemble (political coalition) to merge Together (coalition) with L'Europe Ensemble. They are the same coalition and I see no reason why the name should be translated to the English "Together", seeing as a vast majority of English-speaking media uses the French name untranslated. GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 06:07, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

@Impru20, Number 57, Vacant0, Braganza, Checco, Helper201, Tyrosian, Autospark, Davide King, and HapHaxion: What are your views on renaming it? ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 09:50, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Soft support, also could participate in #Start Braganza (talk) 09:52, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

@Braganza: Sory, just corrected that actual proposed name. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 11:01, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

I know its a different discussion but we should also discuss when the coalition was formed (2017, 2019, 2021 or 2022) Braganza (talk) 11:03, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Best to go by the official date, rather than the presidential majority (which has been used for UMP and PS). I think integrating the EE coalition is a good idea, as it revolves around LREM/RE. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 11:13, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Comment, maybe a merge would be due instead (as laid out at #Start). Impru20^talk 11:43, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

It can, but in addition to it. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 11:49, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

@ValenciaThunderbolt: should you or i replace the notifications on the main articles with {{Merge|Together (coalition) |L'Europe Ensemble|target=Ensemble (political coalition) |discuss=Talk:Together (coalition)#Requested move 16 June 2024 |date=June 2024}} Braganza (talk) 12:49, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

I will just do it Braganza (talk) 12:51, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that for me. I went out the shops when you tagged me :) ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 13:27, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose: I oppose naming any article "Ensemble (political coalition)", while I support a unified article under the current name, that is "Together (coalition)". --Checco (talk) 18:08, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

@Checco: I renamed it to the current name, as it hadn't been renamed around the time it changed name. I didn't realise until later that press sites used the name "Ensemble" rather than "Together". ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 10:11, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

New logo

I saw on social media and from videos of a recen party meeting that Ensemble has a new logo, how do we go about updating theinformation here?Rh0809 (talk) 13:25, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

I'd suppose that you find, acquire, or produce a copyright-free .svg or .png image of the new logo, upload it to Wikimedia Commons and replace the file here with that one. GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 12:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)