Talk:Margaret of Savoy, Countess of Saint-Pol

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Marguerite or Margherita or Margaret?[edit]

More modern sources refer to her as Margaret of Savoy, Margravine of Montferrat than as Marguerite of Savoy, Margravine of Montferrat. Generally, significantly more sources mention Margaret of Savoy as opposed to Marguerite of Savoy. The native-name-argument also wouldn't work since she was Italian. What do you think? Surtsicna (talk) 19:58, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll let you decide, Surtsicna. Any of the three versions are fine by me. I personally prefer the French version; however, as I said, I'll go along with whatever you feel best describes her to readers.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:24, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK, then I'm moving it to Margaret of Savoy!

Would it be asking too much that in his current campaign of anglicisation of all names in en:wiki, Surtsicna give readers time to catch up with his rush in the move of articles? Complete changes in titles may be warranted, but in some cases controversial; consequently, should not his proposal (when there is one) on the article talk page be given ample time for more readers to respond?

In the instance of this Margaret, the proposal was posted not even 48 hours ago & received one answer: when articles are not on a reader's watch list, one falls upon changes by chance.

Frania W. (talk) 18:54, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Would it be asking too much that you stop distorting my intentions? I've been ignoring that for awhile and explaining that I am not anglicizing all names, but you just keep saying that I am doing what I am not doing. That's called vilification. Anyway, Jeanne answered and that was enough, for she was the one who created this article and the only user who significantly edited it. Do you oppose the move? More importantly, do you have a good reason to oppose the move (ie. a reason other than your POV)? Surtsicna (talk) 20:17, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is not whether I oppose the move or not, it giving others the possibility of opposing it or not.

As for directing me to Defamation, I fail to see how requesting of you a minimum degree of courtesy toward other wikipedians has anything to do with defamation, calumny, libel, slander and vilification.

Frania W. (talk) 20:38, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Others (ie. Jeanne) had the possibility to oppose or support; she supported my proposal. There was no reason to believe that anyone else would be interested in discussion. You yourself do not seem to be interested; the only reason you joined the discussion is to lecture me. I wouldn't be offended if you hadn't wrote several times that I am trying to Anglicize every name in Wikipedia. That is what I called defamation, as I have explained several times that I do not want to Anglicize every name in Wikipedia. I have never proposed Anglicizing a name that is not commonly Anglicized by English language sources. Yet you claim that I am doing that in every our discussion. That makes saying that I am on a campaign of anglicisation of all names in en:wiki vilification. Surtsicna (talk) 20:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mon Dieu!! Does this mean that every time someone opposes you it is a case of vilification?

You did not give much time for "others" to respond, like I said, not even 48 hours between your proposal & the move. Naturally, Jeanne responded because, since she created the article (with first name "Marguerite"), she had it on her watch list. Had I been given the chance to enter the discussion, maybe I would have insisted for "Marguerite" to be kept in French, which was Jeanne's preference, maybe I would have suggested the Italian "Margherita", and maybe I would have opted for "Margaret". Who knows? I or anyone else had no chance to give our opinion, that's my point. Frania W. (talk) 23:42, 30 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I did not accuse you of vilification because you opposed (and I'm not sure you opposed at all). I asked you to stop saying that I am doing what I am not doing. I am sick of explaining my intentions every time you mention my username. You are aware that I do not want to Anglicize every name in Wikipedia, yet you keep saying that I want to do that. I suppose your lecturing me is the only reason we are having this pointless discussion. Of course, I can tolerate that, but I can't stand distoring my intentions over and over again. Surtsicna (talk) 11:41, 31 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]