Talk:Where the Angels Fall

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Requested move 4 November 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 06:17, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Where The Angels Fall → Where the Angels Fall – This should be a non-controversial move per MOS:TITLECAPS but because of this RfD, I thought it best to go the route of a formal RM. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 04:28, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I'm the person who started the article. I don't know why I capitalized it this way. Full support. SupremeLordBagel (Talk) 06:15, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Move (given the RfD a round-robin move is probably cleanest). The band's official website consistently spells it with a capital T, as do about half the sources in the article but the other half of the sources lowercase it. However my understanding of the manual of style is that exceptions would require the overwhelming majority of reliable sources to consistently use a different style and that is not the case here. Thryduulf (talk) 12:24, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Do I have permission to move the article? I don't know what it looks like when a discussion is formally closed, so I'm not sure if it's appropriate to move it yet, but it seems as though the consensus is that moving is the best course of action. SupremeLordBagel (Talk) 04:33, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Just wait. An uninvolved admin or page mover will be along when its been 7 days since the nomination to formally close it and implement the closure if the consensus is to move. You should never close discussions which you started or commented on. Thryduulf (talk) 11:01, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move: Could've and should've been a WP:Technical move request. That RfD is silly and also could've been done boldly without discussion. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 11:52, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Songs added to redirects, disambiguation pages and hatnotes[edit]

Redirects – "Thunder Rumbles" • "Money Coming My Way" • "Be with You Again" • "West Sun" • "Old Dog, New Trick"

Disambiguations – "Boom Boom" • "Deeper" • "Owl" • "Dance the Night Away" • "Rock 'n' Roll" • "Coming Back Again" • "Walls"

Hatnotes – "Oh Mercy" • "Drift Away" SupremeLordBagel (talk) 05:09, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Where the Angels Fall/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: SupremeLordBagel (talk · contribs) 06:45, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: The Sharpest Lives (talk · contribs) 22:36, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Good already[edit]

  1. Both the album cover and the song sample have non-free use rationales, and all images pertain to the topic and have precise captions.
  2. There are no edit wars, as SupremeLordBagel (talk · contribs) seems to be pretty much the only editor.
  3. Grammar, writing, etc. is good. The article was written in a neutral tone.
  4. The article stays within scope and goes into detail on the background, composition, touring, etc.

Fixes[edit]

Sourcing[edit]

  • I noticed that there are quite a few primary sources (Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, etc). Could you find secondary sources for these claims? I ran some cleanup scripts on the page, and it automatically tagged the primary sources with {{Primary source inline}}. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 23:18, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is my main concern at the moment. There are at least two claims with the tag, and I think you should at least find a secondary source for the ABC Radio National claim (section: Release and promotion), but the documentary claim just needs tweaking. Change it from Over August and September, a four-part documentary on the album's recording was released. to something like From August to September band released a four–part documentary on Facebook documenting the album's recording process. That way the using Facebook as a source is more valid (in my opinion). Though- the sentence structure may need to be changed. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 15:24, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
checkmark Semi-done Reworded documentary claim per your suggestion. I'm working on finding a secondary source for the ABC Radio National claim, but I can't find anything - only other radio appearances later in the year. SupremeLordBagel (talk to me) 20:50, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The release of the album came more than four and a half years after their previous album, Stolen Diamonds (2019), the longest gap between their albums to date. Is there a source saying this specifically? If not it seems like OR. It is not verified in the body, so I would go ahead (if no sources can be found) to change it to something like "Where the Angels Fall was released four and a half years after their previous album, Stolen Diamonds (2019).". The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 02:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done SupremeLordBagel (talk to me) 04:12, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Touring section of the article cites the Cat Empire homepage multiple times, but I'm not seeing any actual content on that page, except for a blinking eye. Otherwise, it appears there were only 5 shows on the Australian leg of the tour, per Music Feeds. Also, the sourcing is pretty sparse in that section. Any sources to verify the North American shows? The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 02:47, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The information on the Cat Empire homepage is contained underneath the tour header. I noticed that there were dates on the band's website that weren't listed on the Music Feeds article, which was why I used their website as a reference. I'll admit that the band's website is definitely a primary source, so I might try to find one that's a little more independent. SupremeLordBagel (talk to me) 04:19, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for pointing that out. I recommend just searching "cat empire australia six shows" or something similar on google to find a source. I recommend using this search engine to find reliable sources- it's been really helpful for me in the past. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 16:08, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not finding a source for the quote "When we came to record the album, I wanted to think about the Cat Empire more as a community of musicians than just a like-for-like replacement of band members. [...] It was really important for us to treat every song like a world of its own, and so we brought in a lot of musicians to create and reflect that". It isn't from the Rolling Stone source referenced below, so is there another place you got the quote from? The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 03:09, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done This quote is from the Audio Technology interview. I wasn't quite as experienced with reference formatting when I wrote this article - thanks for catching that! SupremeLordBagel (talk to me) 04:22, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for addressing my previous concerns! This is my first GA review, so I'm trying to look for the fine details. Anyways, I found another claim that needs a source: The title of the album is taken from a line in the second verse, "I like the space 'tween words where the angels fall". I am sure it's true, but I think it needs to be sourced. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 12:48, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the "Composition" section, sourcing is pretty sparse in the second paragraph. It appears that most of it is based off of the Music Feeds source though, so no worries. I would just reuse the citation earlier as well, perhaps insert it after the claim "Boom Boom" was written about "a city of music reemerging," in the wake of the COVID-19 lockdowns of 2020 and 2021, to provide proper sourcing for the quote. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 14:51, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
     Done I also added the citation there. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 15:16, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Text[edit]

  • The caption for the "Owl" sample seems a little redundant. Perhaps change "A sample of the Cat Empire's "Owl"; some critics, and the band themselves, noted the song for being one of their most ambitious". to something along the lines of "Critics, along with the band themselves, noted "Owl" as one of the band's most ambitious". That may need to be clarified as well because I'm not really sure what ambitious means in this context. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 01:56, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Changed to "Critics, along with the band themselves, noted "Owl" as one of the band's most ambitious songs." SupremeLordBagel (talk to me) 09:37, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Near the end of the Background and recording section, there are two quotes from Riebl. It is a little unnatural reading to me to have the one after the other, so perhaps open the last paragraph with paraphrasing the "nine horn players" quote. We want to avoid overquoting. The Sharpest Lives (the deadliest to lead) 03:16, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria[edit]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.
    a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
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