Talk:Water crisis: Difference between revisions
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|An entry from '''{{PAGENAME}}''' appeared on Wikipedia's [[Main Page]] in the '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' column on [[28 September]], [[2006]]. |
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==finite supply== |
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''"The Earth has a finite supply of fresh water, stored in aquifers, surface waters and the atmosphere. Sometimes oceans are mistaken for available water, but the amount of energy needed to convert saline water to potable water is prohibitive today, explaining why only a very small fraction of the world's water supply derives from desalination"'' |
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Can be misconstrued without understanding "surface waters" |
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"the earth has a finite supply of fresh water" '''at any one time.''' But the balance between fresh and salt can be effected by far more than just human desalinization. |
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When desalination is addressed immediately after that statement, but not increased storage capacity of surface waters(ie: drop a hole the size of Lake Erie in the middle of India for a Monsoon catchment) it can be misconstrued when combined with "finite" to a younger reader. |
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Surface water can be delayed nearly indefinitely with the proper storage and treatment\reuse, |
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(which need not be capital intensive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_machines) |
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with a net loss within the hydrology cycle that is oceanic, delivered at no cost, drawn and impounded at nature's extremes. |
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Surface water that would otherwise return largely underemployed to the ocean. Oceanic evaporation increases with a worldwide net energy gain. ''"Since the kinetic energy of a molecule is proportional to its temperature, evaporation proceeds more quickly at higher temperature."'' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporation |
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Other possible impoundments include artificial condensation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condensation (an efficient use of waste heat, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas-absorption_refrigerator) the net loss in water vapor would be replaced from all surfaces, the lion's share of which is oceanic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalton's_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_pressure |
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The "water crisis" is not constrained by a finite supply of fresh water, rather human practices and an unwillingness to invest in the infrastructure necessary. Presenting a sole example of an ongoing energy investment (desalinization) as opposed to infrastructure investments with a potential of a net energy gain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_energy_gain |
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employing positional energy as freely delivered by the atmosphere http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_energy limits the scope of the question. |
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The net energy storage of the oceans and atmosphere are increasing, |
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naturally occurring freshwater storage is decreasing, the trend is toward a more erratic hydrology cycle |
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http://www.wmo.ch/pages/mediacentre/press_releases/pr_791_e.html |
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that erratic delivery will by necessity need to be employed, humans will have to replace at least a part of the ice storage with long term impoundment and reuse. |
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The crisis is one of demand, delivery window, and efficiency. |
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Not a closed system with a finite supply of X amount of freshwater. That is only true if qualified by a period of time. |
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Impoundment of water in one part of the cycle will be replenished from salt and fresh water surfaces, soil and transpiration over an extended period of time, reaching a new (and constantly changing) vapor pressure equilibrium. |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transpiration |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evapotranspiration |
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More energy within the system means higher rates of evaporation and less natural retention of surface water (ice) |
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with a net loss to the Oceanic stage of the cycle. Impoundment and reuse however can reverse that, especially if the more energetic (if erratic) delivery is anticipated. |
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:Hello unsigned anonymous. While it's great to know that you've single-handed come up with workable solutions to the world's water crisis, your comments would be better directed to the relevant world leaders and authorities who need your expertise to implement them. This talk page is for discussing improvements to the article, and the article is for a factual description of the current (and historical) state of affairs as can be verified by reliable secondary sources. [[User:NTK|NTK]] ([[User talk:NTK|talk]]) 05:27, 11 March 2008 (UTC) |
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hello NTK, thanx for the dismissive missive :P |
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The post is here to spur the inclusion of factual scientific context which the article hasn't included, namely the hydrological cycle vs time. The "Water Crisis" for any given region is typically seasonal |
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080418112341.htm |
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"The global land surface temperature was the warmest on record for March, 3.3°F above the 20th century mean of 40.8°F. Temperatures more than 8°F above average covered much of the Asian continent. Two months after the greatest January snow cover extent on record on the Eurasian continent, the unusually warm temperatures led to rapid snow melt, and March snow cover extent on the Eurasian continent was the lowest on record." |
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human adaptation to a more extreme delivery isn't "my solution" rather a global imperative. |
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The three interrelated aspects my post included within a joined context where, retention, reuse and replenishment (new surface storage, indefinite re-treatment, the vapor pressure equilibrium of the hydrological cycle). By compartmentalizing this article and artificially limiting the primary "solution" to human desalination (as opposed to employing an accelerated global evaporation\desalination cycle) shapes the way the issue is thought about. We are loosing our natural storage capacity (ice) and need to artificially replace it, as well as change how we use water. |
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Reductio ad absurdum, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum |
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next storm surge experienced by every human alive, one pint of water is placed in a bottle and sealed |
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"surface water" has just increased. Impounded, used and retreated for as long as possible before its eventual evaporation (largely dependent on local air exchange & temperature) the lions share of replenishment in the hydrological cycle comes from the oceans. |
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PS Governments are for centralized "solutions", widely available useful information is for decentralized solutions. |
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I seriously believe this article can benefit from an expansion of "surface waters" and the totally absent concept of more extreme delivery cycle. '''Its as if the article is discussing an average, not the increasingly real world surplus and deficit nature of the hydrological cycle vs demand.''' The passage I took umbrage with in particular |
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"The Earth has a finite supply of fresh water, stored in aquifers, surface waters and the atmosphere. Sometimes oceans are mistaken for available water, but the amount of energy needed to convert saline water to potable water is prohibitive today, explaining why only a very small fraction of the world's water supply derives from desalination[5]." |
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shapes the problem as static and the exclusion of the oceans is misleading. I posted this in here as an argument in hopes that the obvious deficiencies and assumptions in the article would be addressed by a third party, not ridiculed. |
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==merger with asian water crisis== |
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superficially looks like a reasonable idea, but the [[Asian Water Crisis]] is a huge topic in and of itself and can easily merit an entire article. better idea is to merge [[Asian water crisis]] with [[China water crisis]] [[User:Anlace|Anlace]] 04:17, 25 September 2006 (UTC) |
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*Thank you for your opinion and pointing out at a related option. |
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**I agree that the topic is very big. But in therms of general descripotion, water crisis in Asia basically does not differ much from water crisis anywhere else, so it may be a summary section in the main article |
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**On the other hand, Water Crisis in each separate country ([[China water crisis]], [[Water crisis in India]], etc.), are very well separated topics which describe particular specifics in each country: occurences, examples, how it is fighted, etc. This approach is very common in wikipedia, see [[:category:Categories by country]]. |
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**Also, there are naturally possible articles about water crises along major rivers, where several countries compete for the same resource. |
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*[[User:Mukadderat|Mukadderat]] 04:29, 25 September 2006 (UTC) |
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::I am not sure we are in any disagreement here. I think i agree with all your remarks. It sounds like what we need to perform is a split. Take the [[Asian water crisis]] article and split relevant info into the two surviving articles: [[Water crisis]] and [[China water crisis]]. What do you think? best regards. [[User:Anlace|Anlace]] 04:53, 25 September 2006 (UTC) |
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:::"[[Asian water crisis]]" has nothing special that cannot be found in the two other articles, and I am turning it into a redirect to [[Water crisis]]. Asia is so vast territory and so diverse that the article can be just as general as "global [[water crisis]]". The water problems in Asia are basically the same as in Africa. So IMO it only makes sense to have a single overall "water crisis" article and a series of "water crisis" articles by country. [[User:Mukadderat|Mukadderat]] 16:16, 25 September 2006 (UTC) |
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==Original research== |
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This article needs to show that the term (water crisis- as applied here to mean the world is/has run out of water) is used by official organizations.--[[User:Petaholmes|Peta]] 02:38, 27 September 2006 (UTC) |
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: references have been supplied showing that the United Nations, National Resources Defense Council, World Bank, WHY and numerous other agencies with worldwide perspective use this term. by the way this article was already more well referenced than 99 percent of all wikipedia articles. you have a lot of work on your hands to attack the 99 percent...since you are starting to call for references from one of the best referenced articles :( [[User:Anlace|Anlace]] 03:21, 27 September 2006 (UTC) |
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::The dates as specified in the opening sentence should also be supported.--[[User:Petaholmes|Peta]] 03:40, 27 September 2006 (UTC) |
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:::Reference supplied as requested per new edits to article. In addition the UN article already cited in the intro [http://www.nrdc.org/international/summit/summit3.asp] documents that the [[water crisis]] has existed for at least two decades. regards. [[User:Anlace|Anlace]] 05:36, 27 September 2006 (UTC) |
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::::Thanks. It'd be nice if that one cite needed tag was also taken care of before this appears on DYK.--[[User:Petaholmes|Peta]] 05:50, 27 September 2006 (UTC) |
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:::::Yes, i agree. I've placed the UNICEF citation (on-line form) as an edit to [[water crisis]] to address this. Thanks for your help in improving this article. Regards. [[User:Anlace|Anlace]] 14:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC) |
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==Biofuel== |
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The latest edition of the New Scientist has an article on biofuel pointing out that some of the effects of its increased use may be to (a) increase land under cultivation, (b) divert cultivation from edible crops and, (c) divert cultivation towards water-guzzling crops such as sugar cane. I don't have the article to hand and I don't know enough about the subject to extemporize but it sounds relevant to this article to me. I might come back to the article when me, a computer and the magazine are all in the same place at the same time - unless someone beats me to it.[[User:217.154.66.11|217.154.66.11]] 12:06, 28 September 2006 (UTC) |
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== GLACIATION TO START ON 2012 == |
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Well have enough water for everyone , the problem will be just that we'll have to boil it to make use of it. |
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Glaciation is near. Have a nice day. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/87.220.221.96|87.220.221.96]] ([[User talk:87.220.221.96|talk]]) 23:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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: lol [[User:BBnet3000|BBnet3000]] ([[User talk:BBnet3000|talk]]) 00:15, 6 February 2008 (UTC) |
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== Climate Change Impact on water == |
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Warnings of a water and food crisis s this year, but the danger was stressed repeatedly to the assembled world elite. Scarcity of water was named by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon as a top priority at the World Economic Forum and he warned that conflicts lay ahead if the provision of the vital resource could not be assured. |
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"Population growth will make the problem worse. So will climate change. As the global economy grows, so will its thirst. Many more conflicts lie just over the horizon," <ref>[26]</ref> |
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While the world's population tripled in the 20th century, the use of renewable water resources has grown six-fold. Within the next fifty years, the world population will increase by another 40 to 50 %. This population growth - coupled with industrialization and urbanization - will result in an increasing demand for water and will have serious consequences on the environment. |
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Biofuels, which were initially hyped as a "green" solution to the world's energy needs, drew criticism from the chairman of the UN's Nobel Prize-winning climate change panel. |
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"Wherever the production of fuels is going to conflict with the production of food, particularly in a world in which food prices are going up... obviously we are running into difficult territory," revealed by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change chairman Rajendra Pachauri. [[[[27]http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/04/10/europe/EU-GEN-Hungary-Climate-Change.php]]] |
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Already there is more waste water generated and dispersed today than at any other time in the history of our planet: more than one out of six people lack access to safe drinking water, namely 1.1 billion people, and more than two out of six lack adequate sanitation, namely 2.6 billion people (Estimation for 2002, by the WHO/UNICEF JMP, 2004). 3900 children die every day from water borne diseases (WHO 2004). One must know that these figures represent only people with very poor conditions. In reality, these figures should be much higher. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Pretchan|Pretchan]] ([[User talk:Pretchan|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pretchan|contribs]]) 02:26, 23 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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<P>This section is related to water crisis as discussed above and linked to Human Security because this existing article is not comprehensive in exploring the cause of water crisis. Climate change is one important factor which we should not neglect. |
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:I think it would be helpful to include maps such as [http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=freshwater-crisis-current-situation this one] and [http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=freshwater-crisis-looming-shortages these two] published in the ''Scientific American''. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/128.187.0.164|128.187.0.164]] ([[User talk:128.187.0.164|talk]]) 14:54, 8 September 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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==Where is the evidence that overpopulation causes lack of safe, clean water?== |
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The article does not contain a single shred of evidence that lack of safe, clean water is caused by overpopulation. |
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Here is a [[List of countries by population density]]. If you look at the list, you will see that there is no correlation between population density and lack of safe, clean water. |
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Here is the [[Corruption Perceptions Index]]. If you look at this list, you will see that there is a huge correlation between government corruption and lack of safe, clean water. |
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Tap water is not a natural resource. Instead, tap water is the product of scientists, engineers, technology, innovation, etc. When government is properly run, it always manages to provide people with safe, clean water, because the scientists and other people are properly rewarded for their efforts to provide people with clean, safe water. |
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[[User:Grundle2600|Grundle2600]] ([[User talk:Grundle2600|talk]]) 07:36, 20 July 2008 (UTC) |
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Hi, I see you've included one reference [http://www.reason.org/commentaries/smithheisters_20080403.shtml] to back up this view. The reference mentions the viewpoint but does not give any explanation - do you have any other references? [[User:Barrylb|Barrylb]] ([[User talk:Barrylb|talk]]) 18:27, 16 August 2008 (UTC) |
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I think [http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0014/001444/144409E.pdf this report (exec summary)] backs up some of what you are saying. eg they say ''"Water insufficiency is often due to mismanagement, corruption, lack of appropriate institutions, bureaucratic inertia and a shortage of investment in both human capacity and physical infrastructure"'' and ''"Many of the solutions to water problems lie in better governance."'' I'm not sure if your arguments about the [[List of countries by population density]] and [[Corruption Perceptions Index]] is original research though ? -- [[User:Barrylb|Barrylb]] ([[User talk:Barrylb|talk]]) 18:47, 16 August 2008 (UTC) |
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==Neutral Point of View?== |
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some of the wording in this article seems a bit biased --[[User:Voodoom|voodoom]] ([[User talk:Voodoom|talk]]) 06:42, 9 September 2008 (UTC) |
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:You could be right - which bits? Or feel free to go ahead and fix. [[User:Barrylb|Barrylb]] ([[User talk:Barrylb|talk]]) 08:07, 9 September 2008 (UTC) |
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