Talk:Behind Enemy Lines (band)

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians.
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Pennsylvania Low‑importance

	Pennsylvania portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pennsylvania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pennsylvania on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PennsylvaniaWikipedia:WikiProject PennsylvaniaTemplate:WikiProject PennsylvaniaPennsylvania articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Punk music (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Punk music, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Punk musicWikipedia:WikiProject Punk musicTemplate:WikiProject Punk musicPunk music articles

Pittsburgh Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pittsburgh, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pittsburgh and its metropolitan area on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PittsburghWikipedia:WikiProject PittsburghTemplate:WikiProject PittsburghPittsburgh articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Untitled

dude, this is basically about the band that was formed from members of Aus-rotten when it broke up. THis has been done with numerouse other artists on wikipedia. If Aus-rotten was important enough to be on wikipedia then why should this band be different? And even if the band isn't acually all that important does it really matter? because I know some people are going to come to wikipedia looking for info on this band. Why is this an issue?

- what he said about being connected to a notable band (at least two notable bands actually). also they toured europe (extensively in germany) and about half the u.s.

speedy deletion

I put a hangon tag on this article. I'm not done creating it yet, and this band is one of the more important active crust bands, and the members are movers-and-shakers in the DIY scene. Carboneyes 21:15, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you're lucky I saw it first and then went to check it out. They meet the notability standards at first glance [1] for the two albums, but the article needs to have more info than this straight away before the deletionists come along! By the way, are they any good? See my user page for musical prefs! Bubba hot ep 21:18, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this article make it to another level of completion for it to be safe. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 22:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also be sure to use more than the band's site. It turns out I'm the one who deleted this article before because I tagged it as a vanity article and nobody every changed it so I thought it had been abandoned, and after waiting quite a while (about two weeks), I deleted it. I'd rather you create a good article than see someone delete your work. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 22:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I just noticed yesterday that you had deleted this article a little while back (I've been and still am pretty inactive right now). I was in the process of trying to get a discussion going on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Punk music about asking you to undelete when I noticed someone recreated it. Anyway, as for notability, they contain members from bands that are definitely notable, especially Aus-Rotten who are one of the most well known American crust bands. I'm glad to see it's back up. As for Bubba's question, yes they are pretty good. Metal sounding, bass heavy punk. A bit more metalish than Aus-Rotten. Good lyrics. My favorite song from them is probably "Army of God", and everything is free for download on their site I think. Ungovernable Force^{Got something to say?} 06:59, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

removed stub

I removed the stub tag. I don't know if this was appropriate to do yet. If not, then put it back on. I feel the origins section gives a little more emphasis on the importance of this band, but of course it's a work in progress. This is my first nouveau page, so I'm getting the hang of things. Carboneyes 04:06, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

origins

carboneyes, great job on the origins section but it's got things a little turned around. chamberlain moved to pittsburgh to join aus-rotten, then caustic christ formed almost immediately as a side band. finally when aus-rotten broke up, behind enemy lines formed. also, the pist broke up years before chamberlain left connecticut. his last band in connecticut was react. he was also in devastation with sachs. i'll give some thought to rephrasing what you wrote to reflect all this, but in the meantime i'm giving you the info so you can rewrite it if you want. Sokeripupu 21:55, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Minor objection

"Aus-Rotten was active during the time of the Clinton administration, and their lyrics tended to focus on cultural atrophy and hypocrisy under the guise of liberalism" Some of A-R's of their lyrics targeted conservatives and the religious, namely "The Promise Keepers" and "The Crucifix and the Flag." Moreover, A-R condemned nationalism, which generally is tightly bound to the right-wing. Another thing; absolutely none of their lyrics even dropped Clinton's name.

The lyrics never directly attacked liberalism. If anything, they were staunch left-wingers.

They're anarchists AFAIK, and anarchists don't like liberals or conservatives. I don't know enough of Aus-Rotten's lyrics to say which they attacked more, but the article says tended to focus on, not that they only focused on those things. Ungovernable Force^{Got something to say?} 08:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Still, read their lyrics and see for yourself.

"citation needed"

In case it's not clear, I added that tag because the PG article just says that the band formed in late 2000, not that Trenga and Garabedian were the first members.--P4k 21:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the first members weren't trenga and garabedian - it was them, bill chamberlain, and matt sachs. bill actually moved to pittsburgh to join aus-rotten and start caustic christ, then behind enemy lines started with the 4 of them. but that's original research, i just know these people personally, so i don't feel right adding it to the article. maybe it can be re-worded though. there have also been some membership changes lately but i don't think it's been documented anywhere but their myspace page - does that count? Sokeripupu 14:50, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I guess it should be reworded--right now it does imply that trenga and garabedian were the first members, doesn't it? I think citing myspace here would be ok; Wikipedia accepts self-published sources in some circumstances.--P4k 20:58, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ok i gave it a shot, i'm not sure if i did the citation right though. thanks for the help! Sokeripupu 22:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yr welcome. Thanks for actually knowing something about this band, which I don't.--P4k 23:02, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

notability

regarding the notability disclaimer that has just been added, this article has survived votes for deletion before. the article already contains referenced evidence of notability (connection to bands established as notable and touring europe). Sokeripupu 00:21, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Membership and Matt Sachs confusion

On the band's myspace, Matt Sachs is listed as both a current member and former member from 2000-2002. This leads me to believe that Sachs formed the band, left after two years, and has since rejoined. Can anyone confirm this? Also, I'm not sure how exactly I should denote this, so I just put it how the myspace has it listed for the time being. This needs to be clarified, though. Wall Screamer (talk) 00:46, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I can verify that Sachs left the band and later rejoined, but that's just from my personal knowledge as someone involved in the Pittsburgh punk scene. I don't have a source that clarifies that. Sokeripupu (talk) 15:40, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]