Talk:Muhammad Ali's rise to power

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Egypt Mid‑importance

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Former countries: Ottoman Empire

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Muhammad Ali, not Mehmet[edit]

The real name is Muhammad Ali. This is his given name and the name he is known with in Egypt since his rule until today. Mehmet is the Turkish incorrect version of this Arabic name.

Mehmet Ali is a perfectly acceptable variant of this man's name. He was a Turkish-speaking Ottoman, and Mehmet is the standard Turkish variant of the name Muhammad. Technically speaking, Mehmet Ali was his given name, not Muhammad 'Ali. However, since Ottoman Turkish was written in Arabic script during his lifetime, the entire issue is really historiographic: the name is orthographically identical in documents in both languages. Transliterating the name in accordance with Turkish or Arabic style invokes a political claim of cultural ownership, which may explain why one would feel impelled to say one variant or other is the "real name." --Dgilman 05:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What I'm curious about it what the Albanian variant is. =P — LlywelynII 09:39, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing?[edit]

In a more serious issue, most if not all of the text of this article appears to have been lifted from another source. The language is highly stylized and slightly archaic, which makes me suspect that it comes from a relatively old translation of a non-English-language source. Can anyone verify the origins of the text, and provide a citation? (Assuming it's even in the public domain now!) --Dgilman 05:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It's from the 1911 Britannica, and it thus needs a lot of work. For instance most of the Arabic transliterations have been scrambled, and need to be sorted out. - SimonP 13:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Did some of them in the early half, but suffers both from lack of detail and text wall. — LlywelynII 09:39, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ahmed Pasha bad link[edit]

Ahmed Pasha links to a page about a Frenchman who died in 1747, and thus cannot be the Ahmed Pasha who was removed by Egyptians in 1805.

Apply dates[edit]

A lot of dates need to be applied in this article.. (I realise it's a mess)

Sorting out articles about MA[edit]

The various articles on MA need a good sort out, which will probably entail mergers and spinoffs, I've started a centralised discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ottoman Empire#Ottoman Egypt needs attention, and invited discussion from WP Egypt. Le Deluge (talk) 10:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Two versions of same historical event[edit]

According to this article Massacre of the Citadel took place in 1805, Mamluks were invited to witness the cutting of the dam etc.

A plan was soon conceived to destroy the Mamluk beys encamped north of Cairo. On August 17, 1805, they were informed that the dam of the canal of Cairo was to be cut, and some chiefs of Muhammad Ali's party wrote to the Mamluks, informing them that the Pasha would go there early that morning with most of his troops to witness the ceremony, thus presenting the Mamluks with an opportunity to enter and seize the city. To further the deception, the double agents negotiated for monetary rewards in return for providing more detailed information.

The dam, however, had been cut early in the preceding night, without any ceremony, and Muhammad Ali Pasha's forces were positioned to ambush the Mamluks. On the following morning, the Mamluk beys, at the head of sizeable forces, broke open the gate of the suburb al-Husainia, and gained admittance into the city from the north through the gate called Bāb el-Futuh. They marched along the principal street for some distance, with kettle-drums thudding behind each company, and were received with apparent joy by the citizens. At the mosque called the Ashrafia they separated, one party proceeding to the Al-Azhar Mosque and the houses of certain sheiks, and the other continuing along the main street and through the gate called Bab Zuweyla, where they turned up towards the Cairo citadel. Here they were fired upon from the surrounding houses by forces loyal to Muhammad Ali Pasha, which was a prelude to a massacre of the ambushed Mamlukes.

On the other hand, according to the Mamluk article, took Massacre of the Citadel took place in 1811 and the pretext for luring the Mamluks was a declaration of war.

On 1 March 1811, Muhammad Ali invited all of the leading Mamluks to his palace to celebrate the declaration of war against the Wahhabis in Arabia. Between 600 and 700 Mamluks paraded for this purpose in Cairo. Muhammad Ali's forces killed almost all of these near the Al-Azab gates in a narrow road down from Mukatam Hill. This ambush came to be known as the Massacre of the Citadel. According to contemporary reports, only one Mamluk, whose name is given variously as Amim (also Amyn), or Heshjukur (a Besleney), survived when he forced his horse to leap from the walls of the citadel.[32]--109.175.114.13 (talk) 20:31, 2 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Rumelia[edit]

Muhammad Ali Pasha and his regiments came from "Rumelia" (Ottoman occupied Balkans).

Muhammad Ali Pasha was a belligerent against the local "Mamluk" and the "Sublime Porte".

Muhammad Ali Pasha hoisted a green flag within it a single white crescent with 3 stars.

The symbols of the warriors that came from Rumelia should be presented. 10:06, 16 December 2021 (UTC)\\\\\\~\137.59.221.36 (talk)\\~ 137.59.221.36 (talk) 10:06, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Albanian?[edit]

Muhammad Ali Pasha warriors were not completely Albanian but rather inhabitants of "Rumelia" who by the command of the Sublime Porte advanced into Egypt and established settlements. 137.59.221.36 (talk)\\\\\137.59.221.36 (talk) 10:08, 16 December 2021 (UTC)\\\\~~ 137.59.221.36 (talk) 10:08, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]