Talk:English Renaissance
Needs something about the Romantic poets, I think. Keats, Bryon, Shelly, Wordsworth, etc. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (talk)]] 01:26, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Wouldn't they fall too late? I associate them with....well, with Romanticism. It's hard for me to envision the E. R. extending that far....although again, perhaps this is just my bias against the very idea. (Some of my graduate work was as a student of early modern English history, and none of us were very keen on the Renaissance idea, although I was focused on the religious aspects of the time period and likely missed a lot of important related scholarship.) Jwrosenzweig 13:44, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Yes, the Renaissance is usually thought to end around the mid-1600s, whereas the Romantic Poets didn't emerge until the 1800s. The Singing Badger 15:18, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Heh. I'm a British history moron - more of an American history person. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (talk)]] 00:49, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Yes, the Renaissance is usually thought to end around the mid-1600s, whereas the Romantic Poets didn't emerge until the 1800s. The Singing Badger 15:18, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Based on the box at the top right of the article, it looks as though this article is actually supposed to describe this entire time period in English history...everything not medieval or modern. Should it be? Or should it focus purely on the cultural and artistic developments in Tudor and Stuart England? I can pile a bunch of stuff in here on the English Reformation, but is that what this article is for? Or should this be taken off the History of Britain list, and a separate article entitled Early Modern Britain be written? ANy ideas? Jwrosenzweig 20:20, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- I would definitely support moving this article to a new one called Early Modern Britain. The term 'Renaissance' seems to me to imply only a focus on art and literature, whereas 'Early Modern Britain' is much broader and can include religion, ecomonics, etc (as well as covering a broader geographic range). Given the apparent lack of an historical article on this period so far, I would strongly support moving this one and using it as a basis for expansion. The Singing Badger 20:39, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying quickly. :-) I'm thinking we should leave this up for just a while to see if there are other ideas, but if there aren't any objections by tomorrow, I'm inclined to move it, and to change the History of Britain template accordingly. I think English Renaissance links can still point to it, though -- we'll have to play around with the structure. That or we keep an English Renaissance article that deals almost exclusively with the question of if there was one, and then link from it to the Early Modern Britain article where the period is dealt with ni its entirety. Any leanings? Jwrosenzweig 20:44, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Personally, I would begin an 'Early Modern Britain' article with a discussion of the term 'Renaissance' and what it means, so I would say move the whole thing. The Singing Badger 20:59, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying quickly. :-) I'm thinking we should leave this up for just a while to see if there are other ideas, but if there aren't any objections by tomorrow, I'm inclined to move it, and to change the History of Britain template accordingly. I think English Renaissance links can still point to it, though -- we'll have to play around with the structure. That or we keep an English Renaissance article that deals almost exclusively with the question of if there was one, and then link from it to the Early Modern Britain article where the period is dealt with ni its entirety. Any leanings? Jwrosenzweig 20:44, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The more I think about it, the more I'm unsure about moving the article. I think we need an article on the "English Renaissance" and an article on the broader history of Britain from Bosworth Field to Waterloo (i.e., Early Modern Britain). The E.R. would certainly be addressed in an article on EMB, but I think it deserves seperate treatment. Sorry to create conflict. :-) I think the content on politics and government (and exploration) can be moved to Early Modern Britain, and that some of the renaissance content can be duplicated there (with a note to see this article for more). That way the historical article Early Modern Britain can swing out more broad, and we can avoid giving the E.R. short shrift by covernig it in more cultural detail here. Singing Badger, is this amenable? I'm very open to discussion on this. I just don't feel right moving the article yet -- if you still feel that's best, can you tell me more about why you do? :-) Thanks, Jwrosenzweig 21:35, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- I'm inclined to agree--it seems that the content to this page is specific to cultural history, and a slimmed version of it could be added to an EMB article, which would have a wider view of history. Always hard to establish exactly where that line is between too few articles with too much content and too many articles with too little. Happy editing all, Antandrus 21:58, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- I think is is a good idea, given that the idea of 'The English Renaissance' is definitely a concept that exists and deserves an article, even if there is another, wider one on Britain that goes beyond culture. Go for it! The Singing Badger 22:08, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Okay, I was bold. :-) What is now at Early Modern Britain is a shell of what needs to go there, but at least it's a beginning. Please, both of you, add to it what you can! I have so little time for editing these days, I'm worried I won't get back to Early Modern Britain often enough, and of course the gaps in my knowledge are huge. I can handle a lot of the religious history of the time period (at least the 16th century), but there's tons more I only know a little about. Spread the word. :-) Meanwhile, what can we do to continue to flesh this article out? Now that we have two articles, I'm trying to sort out in my head how much of politics needs to be here -- I cut it all out initially, but should some be put back? What portions of the political history of England impacted the cultural movement enough to be here? Revert as many of my changes as you like. :-) Jwrosenzweig 22:35, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- I think is is a good idea, given that the idea of 'The English Renaissance' is definitely a concept that exists and deserves an article, even if there is another, wider one on Britain that goes beyond culture. Go for it! The Singing Badger 22:08, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)