Talk:Ages of consent by country

This article is part of the Age of consent series of articles project.

In the interest of accuracy and quality it was decided by consensus^* to hold these pages to a high standard of verification and to avoid ambiguity through the use of prose (not dot points) discussing the relevant statutes, case law or other authorities.

To this end all information must be properly referenced. Where writing about legislation or other law, the appropriate statutes and similar must be cited. Where appropriate, portions of the legislation can be quoted. Where possible, a link to an up-to-date online copy of the legislation can be included (preferably, but not necessarily, in English). It is preferable to include any such references in-line, rather than in a separate <ref> section at the bottom of the page. This is to make it easier for readers to find the references in context.

The unfettered age of consent should be in bold text, in order that it stand out. No other ages should be in bold text. Any exceptions to should then be discussed afterwards (close in age exceptions, same sex relations etc).

For an example of a properly formatted article see the Ages of consent in Australia and Oceania.

*(The original age of consent formatting discussions began here)

The articles in this group are	Helpful repositories of legislation
Age of consent Age of consent reform Ages of consent in Africa Ages of consent in Asia Ages of consent in Oceania (including Australia) Ages of consent in Europe Ages of consent in North America Ages of consent in the United States Ages of consent in South America Age of consent in Brazil List of countries by age of consent	Worldlii: Global Austlii: Australia Bailii: Britain and Ireland Canlii: Canada Commonlii: Commonwealth Cylaw: Cyprus Droit: French HKlii: Hong Kong	Juri Burkina Cornell law NZlii: New Zealand Paclii: Pacific Islands Saflii: Southern Africa

Please note that ageofconsent.com is not an acceptable reference as it has not been updated since 2002.

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The map doesn't seem to make sense[edit]

According to the black colouring, in Namibia and Yemen, men are not allowed to have heterosexual sex at any age. What does that mean? Equinox ◑ 23:49, 12 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, Equinox. The problem is I couldn't find the minimum age of consent for males in Yemen and Namibia. So I left it as it is as a reminder to correct it. Unless, of course, there is indeed no minimum age of consent for males in those countries, in which case they should be coloured as zero. — Guarapiranga (talk) 00:14, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you should add another colour for "unknown". Thanks for the explanation. Equinox ◑ 04:21, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea.

Done — Guarapiranga (talk) 04:54, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Since I'm here: the colour choice seems very random. What about using a series of colours, e.g. "cold" to "hot" (blue/green YOUNG to orange/red OLD), so that they can be compared visually? Equinox ◑ 05:41, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I tried that previously, but the problem was that it was very difficult to clearly identity the age for each country. What I learned was that gradients can't be used for discrete data. This colour scale is not random; it is the category10 scale here (but with 12 categories instead, as recommended here). — Guarapiranga (talk) 05:56, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Also, using different colors for each age/gender group makes it even more difficult to compare them. — Guarapiranga (talk) 05:58, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, seems that the scale makes sense. Shouldn't you use textures, too, for colour-blind users? I have been told that red spots, blue stripes etc. make it easier for these users, because they can rely on patterns instead of colours if necessary. Equinox ◑ 14:50, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If only I knew how to do that… If you do, please go ahead. — Guarapiranga (talk) 19:53, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Color coded + Vatican[edit]

Why is “Yes” and “no” color coded? I am removing color because of WP:POV. Also, the cited sources for Vatican show “No”. Please look at this talk page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ages_of_consent_in_Europe for info about Vatican City age of consent.

Are you saying out-of-wedlock sex is not illegal in the Vatican, Manabimasu?? Not what Ages of consent in Europe#Vatican City says. It clearly states that all sex outside of marriage is illicit. I see you had a to'n'fro about it in the talk page a few months ago, and assume the article reflects the consensus that emerged from that. Also, you erased the ages of consent on this article for the Vatican, when clearly that same article concludes that therefore the only lawful consent that may be made for sexual relations is the consent between a husband and a wife, thus effectively making the age of consent 16 for males and 14 for females in Vatican City. Reversing your edit. — Guarapiranga (talk) 05:35, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Age of consent clarification[edit]

@Canada: The universal age of consent in Canada is 16, not 18. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_reform_in_Canada

@Guarapiranga: I am a bit confused. What does “Unlimited” mean? For example, Saudi Arabia age of consent is until marriage but “unlimited” age of consent is 18 for men and 15 for women. I looked at the sources and these are the age of consent to get married not to have sex. I propose putting {{N/A}}for all slots of ages for countries with age of consent being until marriage. Or add a column of age of consent for marriage. Manabimasu (talk) 22:19, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Manabimasu: As indicated in the definitions Unlimited means not "limited by age" and not "limited by relationship" (as defined therein). If sex in Saudi Arabia is limited to marital sex, and the marriageable age there are 18 for males and 15 for females, it follows logically that the ages of consent there are 18 for males and 15 for females. No need for extra the columns; this page is about sexual consent ages, not about the marriageable age. — Guarapiranga (talk) 23:06, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Guarapiranga: Maybe but it can confuse other readers. Could you add in "Unlimited" description at the top that if until married is yes, then age of consent is marriageable age? Marriageable age and age of consent are two different concepts. Age of marriage may be different for some countries than age of consent. For example, marriageable age in U.S. and age of consent are different in states. Another example is Djibouti one source says Age of consent is 15 years old but marriageable age is 18, so for that one “until married” should be No, right? Please look into that as well.Manabimasu (talk) 23:11, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Manabimasu: "Although Djiboutian law establishes that parties to a marriage should be 18 or over, there is an exemption in cases where minors may marry with the consent of their guardians." This is why the consent age in Djibouti is 15, not 18. — Guarapiranga (talk) 01:15, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, Manabimasu, in Africa, only in Libya and Sudan is sex out of wedlock illegal. — Guarapiranga (talk) 04:39, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Age of consent series of articles[edit]

Should this article be considered part of the "Age of consent series of articles project"? (FWIW, I am not necessarily advocating for this, just want to be sure that it's not omitted merely as a result of an oversight.) Fabrickator (talk) 07:06, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, certainly! The oversight is mine. Guarapiranga (talk) 09:48, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Where is that? Just searched, to no avail. Can you do that? Cheers. Guarapiranga (talk) 09:50, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Look on the "talk" page for any of the existing "age of consent" articles. The line about the "age of consent series of articles" is at the bottom of the infobox, click on "show" to expand it. This will show the "ground rules" for articles in the "age of consent series". Fabrickator (talk) 16:41, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ok,

Done[1] Guarapiranga (talk) 22:19, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Japan's minimum is stated as 20 on the map but 18 on the table.[edit]

The map has Japan shaded as deep blue, suggesting 20 as the age of consent. While Japan deems anyone under 20 to be a minor legally, the age of consent is at 18 like the table suggests. Some counties in Japan have the age of consent as 20. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rsfadia (talk • contribs) 01:43, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure if it once did, but it no longer does. {{Disputed section}} removed. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 20:40, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

blank cells in Australia[edit]

@Guarapiranga: As of this revision, some of the cells for Australia are blank. I don't know, maybe this is intentional. Can you (or anybody else who is motivated) please check into it? Thanks. Fabrickator (talk) 05:48, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

When both parties are underage[edit]

@Guarapiranga: I just noticed this:

... the person below the minimum age is regarded as the victim, and his or her sex partner is regarded as the offender, unless both are underage

Technically, this is sort of correct, but leaving us hanging about what the ramifications are when both parties are underage is seriously unacceptable. It's highly likely that many people will interpret this to mean that neither party would be subject to prosecution, when that may or may not be the case. Fabrickator (talk) 05:50, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The phrase "unless both are underage" is really problematic. This is a highly relevant scenario, and the explanation is completely ambiguous. Of course there is no answer as to what the correct explanation is, the term "age of consent" is in fact a colloquialism (modern day statutes generally don't use this term, and even if they do, it only means whatever the statute says that it means). So with the current wording, two underage teens might erroneously assume they aren't violating any law when they have sex, on this basis, they willingly admit to having done so, and then find themselves with some serious legal consequences.

I will not attempt to fix this. I advocate that the whole age of consent series of articles ought to have a highly visible banner stating that nobody should rely on the information provided (which is permissible on the basis of this subject matter being sui generis within Wikipedia), but for anyone who wants to object, I would argue that in that case, the articles should all be deleted. (Sorry if I sound like a broken record, this is an existential issue for WP.) Fabrickator Fabrickator (talk) 22:02, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not accurate[edit]

For the most part, age of consent in germany is 16, and 14 with some restrictions. Still its viewed as 17+. Whoever made this article, didnt research properly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:908:1A13:C720:B8AA:1142:2D74:5A17 (talk) 21:02, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have responded to this comment at the IP user's talk page. Fabrickator (talk) 19:04, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sources column[edit]

I think that each table row (or maybe just some) should link to the corresponding section in the "Ages of consent in [continent]" articles (as an alternative to the "Sources" column). Right now, there is more duplication than necessary by listing the sources on two pages/across multiple pages, which makes this page vulnerable to improvements and expansions at the continent pages. An important point is that some countries have a rather complex situation (as, for example, is the case with Ages of consent in Asia#Japan) that is inadequately approximated by the table row here. I think having a link to the more thorough explanation in the continent article would be very beneficial, and that this article should be a "hub" for readers to get to those sections, which are more detailed and better sourced. Pinging User:Guarapiranga, who has done good work here. — Goszei (talk) 22:05, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think that each table row (or maybe just some) should link to the corresponding section in the "Ages of consent in [continent]" articles (as an alternative to the "Sources" column).
They already are, through the continent column linking to the corresponding continent article, and the dagger linking to the specific country section.
I think having a link to the more thorough explanation in the continent article would be very beneficial, and that this article should be a "hub" for readers to get to those sections, which are more detailed and better sourced.
That's precisely what I intended.
Right now, there is more duplication than necessary by listing the sources on two pages/across multiple pages
That's actually what WP guidelines require (WP:Summary style#Technique):
Each article on Wikipedia must be able to stand alone as a self-contained unit (exceptions noted herein). For example, every article must follow the verifiability policy, which requires that all quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged be attributed to a reliable, published source in the form of an inline citation. This applies whether in a parent article or in a summary-style subarticle.
which makes this page vulnerable to improvements and expansions at the continent pages.
That's circumvented through transclusion, as I've done with the definitions section (from this article to the regional ones). This is what I had in mind when I first created the summary table here, but then the structure of the section copies of the table on the regional articles were changed by editors to the point I couldn't transclude them back here reconciling them onto a single one (e.g. Age of consent in North America). Another solution is transcluding the data and the sources by country separately, as I started doing with Australia.
Pinging User:Guarapiranga, who has done good work here.
Thank you, Goszei. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 ☎ 23:22, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I see, I had totally overlooked the "†" links. Usually a cross is used for an in-page annotation, which threw me off. Maybe that symbol should be changed to something more explicit and indicative of an inter-wiki link, like this: (§ Further info). If not (or if another symbol is used), there should at least be an annotation here explaining the purpose of that symbol. — Goszei (talk) 23:25, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Another possible solution is using the country name to link to the continent section, like is done at Ages of consent in the United States#Summary with U.S. states. I think that is a more useful link for readers than the articles on the countries themselves. — Goszei (talk) 23:35, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I see there is a discussion taking place about the future of the template in question at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 June 18#Template:Flaglist+link, and I have left a comment there stating my views. — Goszei (talk) 23:45, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bugs[edit]

Pinging User:Guarapiranga. The (more) links in the first sections of the table (Africa, SA, Asia) no longer work after recent edits. Also, the references starting at Afghanistan are malformed and incorrect (lots of undefined refs). — Goszei (talk) 00:42, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

On closer inspection, the Afghanistan situation and cases like it are due to overlapping ref names. I have reverted the recent changes so a working copy is live. — Goszei (talk) 06:26, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You're not even going to attempt fixing the issues you identified, Goszei?? — Guarapiranga ☎ 01:51, 15 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kenya[edit]

Age of consent is 10 2A02:8084:4E62:1300:8874:4D56:1EC4:A3B7 (talk) 23:25, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Would a map of authority restricted age of consent be more informative?[edit]

The current map displays "unrestricted" age of consent, but for most practical purposes what actually matters is the regular old age of consent as authority relationships are a minority. e.g. the map saying 15 for France would probably be less misleading for when you hear about your French 20 year old acquaintance who has a 16 year old girlfriend. 82.5.42.19 (talk) 18:47, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

(I have moved this section so that things remain in the standard chronological order.) Fabrickator (talk) 21:43, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hong Kong[edit]

The article says the minimum age for women is 21 but the source is specifically about buggery, which means anal sex. Should be clarified. 2A01:799:6E9:2D00:D07A:ACA2:3BE6:AB9B (talk) 16:52, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It does not say that the minimum age is 21, that means that at that age for women in Hong Kong all existing restrictions are over, in this case the prohibition of anal sex. The most common type of constraint is by authority. Goldsztern (talk) 02:44, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Restricted by age difference[edit]

As I understand, "restricted by age difference" means that the younger party can legally consent if the age difference with the other party is small enough. However, the threshold for the age difference for each country is not provided, making the tables not very useful. Hb2007 (talk) 12:02, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]