Talk:Mongol siege of Kaifeng

Mongol siege of Kaifeng has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
December 22, 2013	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on December 28, 2013.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that during the Mongol siege of Kaifeng, the Jin Dynasty (Jin envoys pictured) used extensive gunpowder technology, including trebuchet bombs and fire lances?

Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on February 26, 2015, February 26, 2016, February 26, 2017, February 26, 2018, May 29, 2022, and May 29, 2024.

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Something about the Jin capital...[edit]

Great job on the article so far! After reading this account of the siege of Kaifeng, I found two things missing, a minor one and a fairly important one.

Kaifeng at the time was not called Kaifeng but Bian 卞 or Daliang 大梁 (depending on the sources consulted). Kaifeng was the name of the city when it was the Northern Song capital. Even if Kaifeng is more convenient and is the name used in most secondary studies, the name of the city in Jin times probably deserves mention somewhere.
At the time of the siege, Bian had just become the Jin main capital. Before that, Bian had only been the Jin Southern Capital, but Mongol attacks on their Central Capital (near today's Beijing) forced the Jin to move their government from there to Bian in 1214. From 1214 to 1232, the Jin empire only "consisted of a province-sized remnant in the central Yellow River basin," says Mote (1999), p. 247. These events are very important aspects of the background to the siege of Kaifeng!

There may be other things missing, but that's all I can come up with right now. Keep up the good work! Madalibi (talk) 06:45, 16 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Franke brought up Bian on page 263 of the CH, but I completely forgot to include it. Thank you reminding me. And yes, a large chunk of the history of the Mongol–Jin Wars is missing from the Background, everything from 1211 to 1232. I completely skipped over the Battle of Zhongdu, or Central Capital, one of the most important battles in the war. And not just that, there's also the death of Genghis Khan, the war with Western Xia and the Song, the rebellion by Yelu Liuge, and the rebellion by Yang Anguo. I'll get to it, eventually!--Khanate General ☪ talk ^{project mongol conquests} 07:10, 16 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I see that you're in perfect control of this! Great work again! Cheers, Madalibi (talk) 07:17, 16 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

IMO, this should also be stated in the lede someplace. 50.111.33.214 (talk) 11:17, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]