User:Larry Sanger: Difference between revisions

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Larry Sanger is editor-in-chief of Nupedia and (with Jimbo Wales) instigator of Wikipedia. Ph.D. 2000, M.A. 1995, Philosophy, Ohio State University. B.A. 1991 Philosophy, Reed College. Home town is Anchorage, Alaska. Can be reached at lsanger at nupedia.com.

Until December 2001, I was a full-time paid employee of Bomis, spending most of my work time on Wikipedia. As of February 1, I was no longer paid at all; I made an announcement explaining that I'd continue on as a part-time volunteer. As of March 1, however, I have resigned responsibility for leading Wikipedia and as editor-in-chief of Nupedia; my reasons are given in my letter of resignation to the community. To reiterate, primarily I need this extra time to find a job, and I feel that I cannot work effectively as a leader when I am working only as a part-time volunteer.

I've settled in the Columbus, Ohio area.

File:20ency1.1.jpg

(This picture was taken for a New York Times article about Wikipedia.)

What I've written here

I worked on many hundreds of articles. I originated quite a few. I inflicted a series of philosophy lectures first on Ohio State students, and now on Wikipedia.

I wrote a few 'pedia-related columns, which I moved to Wikipedia's meta-discussion wiki.

You can help to promote Wikipedia. This is one of the most important things you can do for the Wikipedia community. Go to building Wikipedia membership.

Random discussion

Old comments that used to be at this point on the page.
More old comments
Still more old comments
Yet more old comments
And more old comments
Will these comments ever stop
Final comments archive, maybe

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 [[image:20ency1.1.jpg]]
+(This picture was taken for a ''[[The New York Times|New York Times]]'' article about Wikipedia.)
-Here is my [[Larry_Sanger/To do|to do]] list--mainly for my own use, but also to let people know where my priorities are right now.
 === What I've written here ===
-I've worked on many hundreds of articles.  I originated quite a few.  I've inflicted [[Larrys Text|a series of philosophy lectures]] first on Ohio State students, and now on Wikipedia.
+I worked on many hundreds of articles.  I originated quite a few.  I inflicted [[Larrys Text|a series of philosophy lectures]] first on Ohio State students, and now on Wikipedia.
-I've written a few 'pedia-related columns, which I've moved to [http://meta.wikipedia.com/wiki.phtml?title=user%3ALarry_Sanger Wikipedia's meta-discussion wiki].
+I wrote a few 'pedia-related columns, which I moved to [http://meta.wikipedia.com/wiki.phtml?title=user%3ALarry_Sanger Wikipedia's meta-discussion wiki].
-I am trying to promote Wikipedia.  I want your help!  Go to [[building Wikipedia membership]].
+You can help to promote Wikipedia.  This is one of the most important things you can do for the Wikipedia community.  Go to [[building Wikipedia membership]].
-I co-founded Wikipedia, and I am one of a few people who are paid to help organize this project.
-I took the [[Wikipediholic/Are you wikipediholic test|are you wikipediholic test]], and scored a paltry 48.  However, if people can get six points for having a row with me, I think I deserve fifty points just for ''being'' me.  :-)  OK, I just edited the test.  Now my score is 103.  :-)
 === Random discussion ===
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 * [[Larry_Sanger/And more old comments|And more old comments]]
 * [[Larry_Sanger/Will these comments ever stop|Will these comments ever stop]]
+* [[Larry_Sanger/Final comments, maybe|Final comments archive, maybe]]
-Yes, I agree, he is he, nobody would argue with me! :-P
-He is he, but this is twee, we'd all agree.
-Larry's favorite philosopher is [[Thomas Reid]], isn't he? Maybe!
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-I'm not envious because I live here, in [[Russia]]!
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-Please see [[Larry_Sanger/Will these comments ever stop|Will these comments ever stop]] for the most recent comment archive.
-Larry, this is Andrew Szanton writing you a brief note to thank you for welcoming me to the Wikipedians... I admire your effort, and appreciated you taking the time to welcome me.  Best wishes, Andrew
-(I hope I put this in the right place -- still learning my way around here) (!)
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-No problem at all.  Hope you join us often! --[[LMS]]
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-Hi Larry,
-I joined this project a couple of days ago, wanting to start Wikipedia in serbocroatian language - and in a way I did it as I typed an invitation for other users to join at [http://sh.wikipedia.com homepage], but I could not set up preferences or anything else - getting Invalid UserID 112 ??? Tried same thing on Catalan directory - again it did not work. Any technical issues that I should know about before proceeding ??
-As I was testing features that are needed for serbocroatian encyclopaedia, I inadvertently entered page at www.wikipedia.com instead at sh.wikipedia.com with UTF encoding and of course I cannot remove it now - sorry about that, and would appreciate ay help to clean it.
-[[Pingos|Goran Kulenovic]]
-First, Goran, thank you very much for starting that project up.
-I'm going to post this message on Intlwiki-L, which I encourage you to join.  I really can't help you here--I'm not a system administrator, though I should try to get the proper know-how to become one.
-I'm not sure what you mean about HTF encoding on www.wikipedia.com.  The homepage looks OK... --LMS
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-[[Wikipedia NEWS]] appears pretty much defunct, prehaps it should be removed from the homepage.
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-I must agree.  It was a good idea while it lasted. --LMS
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-Thanks Larry, for the redirect [[H.Jonat]]
---------------------
-Two issues for you Larry.  I was editing the [[Minnesota]] page which has got quite large.  When I go to preview the page I intermitently get a page not found error, or sometimes get bounced to the main page.
-The second issue is that I thought I should report this as a potential bug (I'm a software tester, so it's kind of a reflex).  I went to meta.wikipedia.com and immediately saw a link to bug reporting that I followed.  I was about to enter the problem when I noticed I wasn't logged in.  I did this (had to create an ID), but was then taken to the wikipedia page at sourceforge.  Scanning the page I saw a link for bug reporting, but was taken to a completely different page than the ''other'' bug report page.  Why two pages, and could it be made clearer on the pages?   [[Verloren]]
-:As Larry is currently rather busy, I will try to answer this. There is a bug report page for the "real" wikipedia (UseModWiki software) and for the meta/sourceforge/test wikipedia (my PHP script). As these are two different scripts, they each have their own bug report page.
-:Sorry, Larry, for turning your page into a talk namespace ;)  --[[Magnus Manske]]
-No problem, Magnus!  :-) --LMS
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-:Welcome back, professor! Now that the 'pedia is settled in its new software home and your family is settled in its new physical home, we're all rarin' to go!! --[[Ed Poor]]
-Hi Ed, I moved your comment down here to the "changeable comments" section...  I'm missing it a bit myself and I'm ready to get going again myself.  Despite the server slowdowns, the website is still running more or less, which is good.  I will do what I can to make sure we get running more quickly. --[[LMS]]
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-Hi Larry,
-Somehow my number got changed from 66.47.62 while updating. It changed to 130.94.122, which is another person's , who is still adding articles.
-What should I do ?
-[[H. Jonat]]
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-I really have no idea.  Funny, that's the number at the top of my screen right now, as I write this.  I imagine this is an item for the [[Wikipedia bugs]] page. --130.94.122.xxx
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-Aha, now I logged in using "Larry_Sanger" (with the underscore) rather than "Larry Sanger" and I stayed logged in.  So, Helga, try logging in as "H._Jonat" rather than as "H. Jonat" and see if that solves the problem. --
-[[user:Larry_Sanger|Larry_Sanger]]
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-Hi Larry, before I saw your answer here it dawned on me to go back to one of my old entries. I did and logged in under that and it worked, (so far. I hope it works next time too).
-[[H. Jonat]]
------------------
-It appears that I have deleted something from here. I certainly didn't mean to, don't know how it can have happened. Sorry! :-(
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-In that case, I'm sorry I accused you!  Could have been due to some kind of bug with the new software, I suppose. --LMS
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-Could we have an updated 'Most Wanted' page, Larry?  Many of the current 50 are now there (or, in the case of [leg], taken care of by having many unnecessary occurrences de-linked!). [[user:MichaelTinkler|MichaelTinkler]]
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-Hmm, like most things having to do with the new software, it's out of my hands, unfortunately.  I can post a request on [[Wikipedia-L]]... --LMS
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-Hi, Larry. I'm working on a project of my own that I've recently wikified (having seen from the [[Wikipedia]] example just how effective that can be).  I'm interested in soliciting advice and contributions from you and the Wikipedians, but I don't know whether you'd consider that appropriate.  I am, of course, including a plug for Wikipedia. :)  Would you consider it best for me to drop the subject, or would it be acceptable to (a) tuck it away on my user page here, (b) place an article on the meta page, and/or (c) raise it on the list?  I appreciate your patience with the question.  [[user:-- April|-- April]]
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-Why not do (a), (b), and (c)?  It's OK by me. --[[user:Larry_Sanger|Larry_Sanger]]
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-Larry, I have a style question.  What's up with subpages?  I'm starting to see them show up again.  There's a great start to an entry (it needs heaps of editing, but it's full of interesting material) at Rome/Foundation by a user I don't recognize (151.24.190), and I think the user created the subpage from scratch.  My preference is to break the information out to other relevant entries or to rename the whole thing [Rome, foundation].  What do you think? (I know, I know, you're not whatever anymore, but you're still here and I'm going to ask anyway!) [[user:MichaelTinkler|MichaelTinkler]]
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-I'm still here, but I shouldn't be (I should be looking for a job :-) ).  Probably the person saw other examples of subpages, e.g., the WWII subpages, and thought that's how it's done.  Anyway, why emulate a nonfunctioning and inferior technology?  How about [[the founding of Rome]] or [[the foundation of Rome]] or something similar?  I'd just redirect it myself if I were you (please?).  Thanks... Larry
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-Now that you are not here; Who do you suggest the contributors complain at?
-:I personally make it a policy of life in general to complain only to the person or persons most likely to have the ability or power to resolve the problem.  So if you want to complain about an article, put your complaint in the talk space of that article.  If you want to complain about a user, speak to him directly.  If you want to complain about the software, write a note to the wikitech-l list. If you have a complaint about the community or process as a whole, write a note to the wikipedia-l list. --[[user:Lee Daniel Crocker|Lee Daniel Crocker]]
-::Very well said, Lee.  (I read Wikipedia-L, of course.) --Larry
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-Jimbo and Larry, I hope you do mind the easy familiarity.  Some headsup data links and a proposed word change to the submit button.
-First on the submit button.  Unless you feel it is necessary to help establish/maintain the Wikipedian ethic and committment to the critical NPOV and pre-empt flame wars or unncessarily hurt feelings in neophytes unfamiliar with our cultural norms ...... I think perhaps "...edited mercilessly  ....' sets the wrong tone.    I think the word we are after is "rigorously" or
-rigorously in merging with additional data ..... have to word that in context but I hope you see what I mean.  Perhaps more experienced community members have a different take.
-A potential lucrative market and major boost for the Basque/Spanish iw.  http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Talk:Libertarian_socialism/Todo
-The work force in these coops NEED your technology and access to the a spanish encyclopedia to exercise their franchise properly against a management echelon apparently (to me) getting greedy, cliquish, mutually admiring etc. between the bank and business venture managers.  CORRUPTION is setting in.
-It is my thought that the ability of this technolgy to dissemate information effectively asynchrnously and allow it to start as inchoate ill informed opinion and then mutate and improve with mutual editing could restore the past strength of this social/economic experiment.
-Setup, remote admins, consulting, moderating (NPOV), remote research, brainstorm/product improvement, etc. could all be revenue centers <b>without</b> charging for the online service, database, and periodic synch.   Any way I thought you and Larry should discuss concept and ask for the communities collaboration if appropriate.
-I am attempting to set up a QA/QC process for the extreme long term benefit of maintaining our GPL'd codebase and all software and data necessary to establish a mirror or fork.  I will get this organized at meta as I have time.  I am aggressively recruiting assistance amongst friends that stand to benefit from the free encyclopedia to "staff" by playing around so this should have no immediate impact on software development efforts unless they percieve immediate value.  [[user:mirwin]]
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-mirwin, could I ask you please to write again, in plainer English, to [[wikipedia:Wikipedia-L|Wikipedia-L]], summarizing what you're up to?  I am also confused about this very ''odd'' assertion that "corruption is setting in"--does this have something to do with Wikipedia?  Are you making the assertion, for example, about me?  Please do clarify on Wikipedia-L, not here. --Larry Sanger
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-Hey Larry, could you join a policy discussion a few users and I have been having on the meta? It is about [http://meta.wikipedia.com/wiki.phtml?title=Uploads_being_abused Upload utility abuse]. [[user:maveric149|maveric149]]
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-Please forgive me if this is in the wrong place. I saw your comments on meta Wikipedia page "Controversy from unclear or conflicting goals of contributing wikipediasts" and I thought maybe the follwiing would help:
-::Caution, my inline responses below! --Larry
-Maybe an FAQ redesign would help by making it more obvious where the answers to trollishness etc are, for example:
-*list all the questions on the main page so that readers can see what the questions are and so have a better idea of where to look for answers. Rationale: many other FAQs are structured that way, and they seem to work more efficiently.
-**Might help, but the problem is that the FAQ doesn't have all the answers :-) and the front page is already a bit long as it is.
-***The front page of the FAQ is at present way too ''short''. I was thinking that what many sites do is put just the questions on the main FAQ page, with links to the answers on separate page/pages. That way the main page is short enough to load ok, but readers can more quickly see what questions are being answered.
-*put questions such as "What is crummy/silly/boorish behaviour" right at the front. Rationale: those to whom it is directed might get the message quicker
-**Hmm.  I'd say instead that we could have a more prominent link to [[Wikipetiquette]].  From the Home Page, for example.  Not a bad idea.  But y'know, telling people how to be polite doesn't make them much more polite.  It makes a few of them distinctly nastier.
-***I agree, a more prominent link to [[Wikipetiquette]]
-*include a question along the lines of "We've heard all these SO many times before" ''right'' at the start. Rationale: as above.
-**Well, see [[Wikipedia/Our Replies to Our Critics]].  Hmm, so you're saying we need a page like that for people who criticize the way the project is ''managed''?
-***No, I am suggesting putting something near the front phrased to try and get the message across that they are not the first to think of their bright idea. I know you've got masses more experience at this sort of management than I, so probably such a link applies to me as well :-)
-*lock the FAQ like the main page
-**Oy, bad idea!  We like the fact that it's editable!  It was built up by people who felt free to add questions!
-***Yes, but maybe you can structure the FAQ to help modify behaviour, in which case you want to filter changes so that Joe Blow's latest bright idea doesn't remove previous careful engineering. In other words, you use your dictatorial powers for the good of mankind, just as you already do to end arguments. In this case you do it by locking the main FAQ page so it is similar to a moderated mailing list.... but again, it's just a suggestion, and it comes of course at a price, as you say.
-Another mechanism used elsewhere is to put a message like "PLEASE read the FAQ before asking questions/criticising" displayed prominently on the main page. Might be worth trying.
-::See [[wikipedia:most common Wikipedia faux pas]].  I think anything bolder than that, along these lines, would be insulting to most readers.
-[[user:Graham Chapman|Graham Chapman]]