Talk:Đại Việt–Lan Xang War (1479–1484)

Alliance

Some author said that the war also involved Thai, Ava and Chieng Hung:

https://books.google.com.vn/books?id=XR91bs70jukC&pg=PA111&lpg=PA111&dq=daiviet+invasion+of+lan+xang&source=bl&ots=kbB-7rmFlo&sig=ACfU3U2r4sTHOLb_7ApN4ZbJyhY0mhS0uw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjigrHdy87mAhWVMN4KHTR5DjcQ6AEwDnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.20.100.235 (talk) 15:51, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Interesting. My reading of the source that you cite is that the Vietnamese were intent on expanding their country and attacked not only Laos, but also Siam, Ava, Chieng Hung and any other country to their west. I don't read, however, where those other countries fought and cooordinated with the Laotians. So to me they did not participate in the Vietnamese-Laotian war of 1479-1480, but rather fought their own conflicts against Vietnam. I don't believe, however, that any of those conflicts which may have occurred between Vietnam and Siam, Ava, or Chieng Hung was very significant as I don't see it listed in the List of wars involving Vietnam. Throughtout those times there were many, many border scuffles that occurred, but really can't be classified as wars. So I believe that the article ought to stay as currently written. Thanks, VFF0347 (talk) 19:39, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

The territory change

Dear

I am searching for information about the war recently and found out that there was a territory change according to 2 Vietnamese geography and history records: Lịch triều hiến chương loại chí (歷朝憲章類誌) and Đại Việt địa dư toàn biên (大越地輿全編). Classical Chinese versions:

http://lib.nomfoundation.org/collection/1/search?csrfmiddlewaretoken=959cd7e79b4d203176298ed1ef2309ab&query=%E5%A4%A7%E8%B6%8A%E5%9C%B0%E8%BC%BF%E5%85%A8%E7%B7%A8

http://lib.nomfoundation.org/collection/1/volume/120/

Territory of Muang Phuan kingdom spread from today Lao's Houaphanh province in the North to Khammouane province in the South, after the war the northern part (Houaphanh and Xiangkhouang, now renamed "Tran Ninh" by Vietnamese) was merged with Nghe An of DaiViet, the southern remain under Lanxang control.

24 December 2019 (UTC)

That is interesting, but do you believe that the territorial change was significant? To me I still believe that it was a meaningless war that really didn't change very much. From what I read the Vietnamese eventually returned home as I believe that they were concerned that the Chinese might invade. After the Vietname returned home, the two countries (Vietnam and Laos) lived in peace for two centuries. So in conclusion, I believe that the article ought to stay as currently written. Thanks, VFF0347 (talk) 19:39, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Major Re-write

I will be re-writing this article. I have obtained copies of the two excellent histories of Laos / Lan Xang that were referenced and I find that the article currently does not accurately reflect what was written about the war and its impact upon history. The current article also exaggerates the length and breadth of the war. There is not a lot of information generally available about the war and numerous issues are in dispute. I find the current article biased in favor of Vietnam without support for many of the statements made. So I plan to re-write, trying to stay true to what is said in the references that I cite. I will also be changing the name of the article. My apologies to the original author(s) for what I have changed, however without additional / better sources and inline citations, I do not believe what was originally written. VFF0347 VFF0347 (talk) 19:16, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

@VFF0347: the article's creator has been blocked for sockpuppetry, and so I doubt you will suffer much push-back. Good luck with the re-write. SamHolt6 (talk) 03:23, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Changes to "Vietnamese-Laotian War (1479-80)"

Dear Contributor 117.2.210.223

I am going to undo the changes you made today to the article "Vietnamese-Laotian War (1479–80)." The changes that I made when re-writing the article are factual and based upon two excellent sources. I have provided citations with sources for everything that I wrote.

The changes that you made in some cases are a matter of opinion and in other cases not factual. Your have not provided any citations or new sources to support your changes. If you really feel that I have made errors, please provide new citations and the source(s) for your changes. Please have the courage to come out from under your veil of anonymity and support your position with your arguments and sources, person-to-person.

I have tried to be straightforward and factual in my rewrite. My rewrite was not mean to be an affront to Vietnam or the history of Vietnam. I am simply trying to report factual history. If you re-change the article again without coming forward to discussion particular issues and providing justification (citations and sources) I will report your changes as vandalism.

VFF0347 VFF0347 (talk) 20:42, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Le-long-ki.gif

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:07, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Map

The article could really use a new map- showing all Southeast Asia isn't necessary. Many other maps have been created by Vietnamese nationalists simply wanting to show a territorial expansion- which really didn't happen at this time, and wouldn't happen until the 19th century. A regional map, with the major waterways would show the conflict much better, and how it was that Dai Viet moved to the Shan regions. Using John Whitmore and Li Tana you at least get place names. I'd be happy to help out how i could. StampyElephant (talk) 14:08, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Retitle and Move?

@StampyElephant

Should this article be retitled and moved? From your research and rewrite this war lasted five years spanning 1479 to 1484. As such, the current title is misleading. VFF0347 (talk) 02:33, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

@VFF0347 Yes- most academic sources would agree on the 1479-1484 dates. Good catchStampyElephant (talk) 11:35, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Repeat Vandalism

VFF0347

SamHolt6

There’s been repeated vandalism of the article- unsourced and counterfactual edits. Can anything be done?StampyElephant (talk) 21:00, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

@StampyElephant: The IP with which you had a content dispute is likely evading a block (see NhatMinh1701). — MarkH₂₁^talk 06:05, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because it is currently in the process of a clean page move. This is the source to be eventually moved over another target, also in CSD. Please wait. --WhoAteMyButter (📨_talk│📝^contribs) 06:01, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 20 September 2022

Undo recent changes by user Norwayehd- outcome is sourced still in text. StampyElephant (talk) 16:55, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. Edit requests are not for continuing content disputes. Please discuss the disputed content and seek dispute resolution if needed. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:16, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I requested the page protection. The issue is that the page has been protected after being vandalized again, it you look at the history there have been some good faith edits by myself and another editor. However the back and forth here is from vandals/sock puppets that keep making the same unsourced changes. Thanks for your attention StampyElephant (talk) 18:18, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I support StampyElephant's request to revert to the version before vandalism. --Paul_012 (talk) 19:26, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm leaning towards restoring the status quo version, but as the protecting admin protected for a content dispute, I've reached out to them for their input before doing anything. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:47, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

I've restored the status quo after discussing with the protecting admin. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:20, 22 September 2022 (UTC)