Talk:Gay sexual practices

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Title and WP:Content forking[edit]

Since the term gay commonly refers to gay men and lesbian women (even to bisexual-identified people or other queer people), it may be best that the title of this article be Gay male sexual practices, not Gay sexual practices. Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Article titles, where it currently states "sufficiently precise," ambiguity should not cloud the heading. Yes, I am quite aware that gay, in some contexts, only refers to gay men...such as commonly being the G in LGBT. But, regardless, it is a term commonly applied to both men and women. If one wants to argue that "gay male" is unacceptable because many of the men may not identify as a gay man, I would suggest that one option is to address sexual identity in the lead, similar to how we do for the Men who have sex with men, Lesbian sexual practices and Women who have sex with women articles, but I'm not aware of any WP:Reliable sources stating that "gay male" doesn't in fact mean "a gay male," unless touching on transgender issues. There are, however, many WP:Reliable sources pointing out that the term gay is often used as an umbrella term for all LGBT people, especially LGB people. So another option is to let this article stay titled Gay sexual practices, but to add a WP:Hatnote indicating that this article is specifically about sexual practices between males, and that sexual practices between females is covered by the Lesbian sexual practices article. And then perhaps address sexual identity in the lead, providing insight into the fact that gay does not always mean "strictly homosexual person."

Secondly, Prcc27's creation of this article is currently an unnecessary WP:Content fork. Prcc27 gave the following reasoning for creating this article: "Things copied from anal sex, frot, and men who have sex with men. Since there is a 'Lesbian sexual practices' I decided to create this page. It might need a little bit of work." I don't think that is good reasoning to have used to create this article. WP:Content forks should only be created when needed; otherwise, they should generally be avoided. There was no need to fork this material to create a Gay sexual practices article. The Lesbian sexual practices article, for example, is not largely redundant. It also has substantial WP:Weight in WP:Reliable sources; this is due to the degree to which WP:Reliable sources focus on lesbian sexual practices. By contrast, WP:Reliable sources usually focus on anal sex with regard to sexual activity among gay men and other men who have sex with men, as made clear by this and many other sources; WP:Reliable sources on male-male sexual activity usually aren't nearly as focused on the different sexual practices that male-male couples might engage in. The Lesbian sexual practices article is not nearly the same as the Women who have sex with women article or any other Wikipedia article discussing sexual activity between women. But the Gay sexual practices article is currently a significant fork of material presented in other Wikipedia articles. I don't object to a Wikipedia article on this topic; I object to unnecessary redundancy. And, no, the solution is not to remove or reduce this material in those other articles; this material, all of its text, is very important to those other articles, which is why it's there. The solution is to WP:Copyedit some of the material in this article away from the same exact wording (some of it being my wording) and to expand this article with different material, material that shows this article as unique instead of as unnecessary space. One WP:Copyedit to begin with is to fix the "Health Risks" heading, per MOS:HEAD -- sentence case, not title case. Flyer22 (talk) 05:24, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

I'd prefer hatnote over name change. Prcc27 (talk) 16:58, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
I added a WP:Hatnote and made other tweaks. One of the tweaks I made, as seen in that diff-link, was remove most of the statistics regarding anal sex and to instead summarize the matter and link directly to the male-to-male prevalence section of the Anal sex article. The Anal sex article, of course, is the article for significantly elaborating on anal sex. Since, like I noted above, sources so often focus on anal sex with regard to male-male sexual activity, I know that the Gay sexual practices article is going to have paragraphs about anal sex, but when we can reduce the redundancy between articles, we should. Another thing that needs to be significantly reduced is the Health risks section; this is because the vast majority of it is an exact copy of the Sexually transmitted infections section of the Men who have sex with men article; it would be best to summarize that content and have that section link to the relevant section of the Men who have sex with men article, perhaps with a "Main article," "See also" or "Further information" link. And that is what I plan to do, if you do not do it first. I also obviously added categories -- the same categories used in the Lesbian sexual practices article, with the exception of the Category:Lesbianism.
Do be careful with WP:Content forking in the future; such forking can certainly be, and often is, a problem. This is why WP:Content forking advises against it in general. Think of it like this: When there is already one or more articles sufficiently covering the topic, there is no need for another. Not unless that "another" piece is significantly unique. The point of the WP:Content fork guideline is this: We should strive to keep aspects of a topic in one article instead of causing readers to go to multiple articles for the material, unless necessary. There are editors who will immediately nominate a WP:Content fork for deletion, if they view it as inappropriate WP:Content forking. Flyer22 (talk) 22:36, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Source misrepresentation and WP:OR[edit]

This article seems to have become WP:COATRACK for linking numerous diseases to gay sex (protected or otherwise). Several sources are misrepresented, exaggerated, or clumsily combined in blatant violation of WP:OR. I'm inclined to nominate the article for deletion as a WP:POVFORK, but would like to hear from other editors about whether the article is worthy of being kept.- MrX 19:53, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Here are MrX's edits to the article so far:[1][2][3][4]. Per what I stated above about cleanup, MrX, the article might be worthy of being kept. I could certainly expand it with more material about gay male sexual practices. For the record, I don't think that it was Prcc27's intention to have this article be a "gay sex leads to numerous diseases" article in disguise; I think what he intended is made clear above. He simply wanted an article about gay male sexual practices since the Lesbian sexual practices article exists. He obviously went overboard in copying content from the Men who have sex with men article, and you might want to check that article for WP:Synthesis as well. I obviously didn't get around to reducing that material in the Gay sexual practices article. Flyer22 (talk) 23:24, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for that perspective Flyer22. I will check out the other article as well.- MrX 02:02, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Docking[edit]

A lot of the docking information that was just added is unsourced and unclear. I'm not sure how much of it should be reverted! Prcc27 (talk) 00:54, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

This page doesn't make too much sense since the sexual practices referred on it are not exclusive of gay couples but are also performed by a lot of heterosexual couples. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.93.248.48 (talk) 18:35, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

There are two practices noted in the article that are exclusive to male same-sex couples; those are frot and docking. But that is beside the point. The article is specifically about sexual practices that male same-sex couples engage in. Above, I did argue unnecessary WP:Content forking (and unnecessary WP:Content forking irritates me), but the article is here and can be expanded and fixed up better than it is. Flyer22 (talk) 19:02, 21 March 2015 (UTC)