Talk:Herbert Campbell

Missing book references

You list "Shaw" and "Read" in the footnotes, but the citations are missing in the References section. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:44, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I had to stop half way but intended to complete. They should now be done. Incidently sorry about re-doing your ce of the panto section, I did it without checking first. I restored to as much as I can so hope it's kind of similar. -- Cassianto (talk) 02:07, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

No problem, but why did you delete these?: Campbell weighed 256 pounds, with a voice like "a powerful accordion which some miracle-worker had got into tune."[Shaw, p. 12] Max Beerbohm thought of Campbell as "the offspring of some mystical union between beef and thunder" and took French visitors to see him "as a liberal education in the character of this island",[Beerbohm, p. 350] These seem helpfully descriptive of this performer. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:05, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

To be honest, I deleted the lot and then couldnt remember what was there before. IT had to be "manually done" as intermediate edits by me stopped me looking at the edits before by yourself. (if that makes sense?). I'll fix the Beerbohm quote now. -- Cassianto (talk) 08:31, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

OK, nice work. -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:53, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Camberwell Palace Theatre and more

Have you seen this?: http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/18126 -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:48, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Also this: http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/Clapham.htm Can you add something to both bios? -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:55, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes. I knew about the second one but not the first. I would be happy too add something to each, but would they be considered reliable? -- Cassianto (talk) 17:35, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Reversion

My edit here was promptly reverted by Cassianto as "not an improvement". Actually, it was an improvement. Here are some of the reasons.

1. In both para 1 and para 2, the first two sentences have the same subject, Campbell, and all four sentences used his name. This constant repetition, when there is no possibility of confusion or ambiguity, is clumsy and ugly English. I therefore replaced the second occurrence in both paragraphs with the pronoun "he". This is basic copy-editing.
2. The phrase "amateur nigger band" was italicised. As it does not require emphasis, nor is it a foreign-language phrase or major work of art, nor does it meet any of the other criteria for MOS:ITALIC, italics are not appropriate. It is, in fact, a quotation, so I set it in quotation marks (necessary, of course, because the terminology is unacceptable in the modern age).
3. In place of the slightly awkward citation of the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, I used the customised odnb template. Some editors may not like the template, but personally I think it useful in standardising the citation, taking up less space, and, not least, in flagging up to the uninformed reader what the original citation did not: that although the ODNB is a subscription resource, it is accessible to anyone with a UK public library membership.
4. "During the early 1860s he changed his stage name to Campbell ...". This was, it may be assumed, a one-off event that occurred at a specific date (even if we don't know what that date was), rather than a gradual process, so I changed the opening to "In the early 1860s ...". And the reader, who has been reading throughout about "Campbell", might do a double-take at reading that he changed his name to Campbell; so I amended the pronoun to "Story" as a reminder that that was his original name.
5. The phrase "less than successful" is used as a compound modifier, and should be hyphenated (see MOS:HYPHEN). So that's what I did. Again, basic copyediting.
6. "... he joined the minstrel performers Harman and Elston in their act Harmon, Campbell and Elston". Presumably the act wasn't known as Harmon, Campbell and Elston before he became a member, so he didn't "join Harmon, Campbell and Elston": he joined, and the name of the act was then changed. And, again, Harmon, Campbell and Elston does not meet any of the criteria for MOS:ITALIC. I changed the sentence to read "he joined the minstrel performers Harman and Elston in what became "Harmon, Campbell and Elston" (putting the name in quotation marks to indicate that it was freshly coined).
7. "In 1867 Campbell struggled to establish a career away from his blackface act." The implication of the verb "struggle" is that this was a drawn-out process (culminating, in the next sentence, in his decision to become a comic vocalist), so I changed the tense from the perfect to the imperfect: "In 1867 Campbell was struggling ...".
8. The phrase "many, many songs" is casual and informal English, and does not meet the criteria for a formal and encyclopedic writing style required by WP:FORMAL and WP:TONE. I therefore amended to "many songs", which means the same thing. If you wanted to emphasise their multitude more, you might have used a more forceful phrase such as "a great number of songs".

In short, my edits were positive and constructive, and brought this section into closer conformity with the MOS and style guidelines. I don't claim that my version was beyond improvement, and if you wanted to tinker further I'd have no objection, but a kneejerk reversion with an inadequate edit summary is a blatant and arrogant case of WP:OWN. GrindtXX (talk) 18:18, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

It's a shame you've had to resort to issuing the cliched ad hominem that is "WP:OWN" to argue your point. And that is precisely why I intend to ignore you now. Cassianto^Talk 06:20, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

In other words, you can't summon up a single argument in favour of your reversion. Thank you for that admission. GrindtXX (talk) 11:26, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

The "admission" is in your own mind. Treat people how you'd like to be treated yourself and you may find you have a better reaction. Until then, your below average additions stay off this page. I'm even considering deleting the image you put on the page as it tells us nothing about Campbell, except the fact he's dead. Cassianto^Talk 12:50, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

For the benefit of those looking in, this is the edit in question:

• "He"? Who? Story or Campbell? Only we mention Campbell and his father in the previous sentence.

• Nothing wrong with the former citation style.

• The past tense "raised" is far better than the present participle "raising".

• "In the early 1860s Story changed his stage name to Campbell." -- His father was Story, not Campbell; Campbell is Campbell and has been from the start of this article. More confusion introduced.

• "What became"? There is no ambuiguity in my version to warrant this change.

• Again, "struggled" is grammatically better than "struggling".

• I'll give you the correction to the pronoun.

I hope these answer the questions raised by GrindtXX. Cassianto^Talk 13:07, 25 April 2020 (UTC)