Talk:Meligalas

Commentary added

(1) It appears the article is biased and several points need clarification.

(i) Firstly it is historically accepted and recognised that the massacre is one of the greatest modern-era atrocities to occur on Greek soil, whoever were the protagonists. The treatment by the writer is dismissive and consequently offensive in that regard. (ii) It is not the case that all who were murdered at Meligalas were Security Battalion troops. It is historically agreed that a substantial majority of those who were murdered by the communist EAM-ELAS forces where simply local villagers, innocent by-standers caught in the seige itself and other male villagers rounded up from nearby settlements and villages by EAM-ELAS forces during the battle. It is highly offensive and inaccurate to describe those murdered by EAM-ELAS at Meligalas as "dead fascists." (iii) As Nazi forces had physically left SW Greece by September 1944 there was no "collaboration" to be had with the Nazis. The right-wing Security Battalion forces by this time were undertaking campaigns against communist EAM-ELAS forces in what were prelude activities to the Greek Civil War. It is inaccurate to term the forces at Meligalas as "Nazi collaboratists". (iv) It is known that EAM-ELAS forces often undertook armed hostile activities against unarmed local villagers in rural Greece who in general, being traditional and religious conservatives, were not in favour of the EAM-ELAS goal of communist rule in Greece. Meligalas is an extreme example of how far that hostility extended.

(v) Aris Velouchiotis is historically renown for his atrocities against other Greeks during the Nazi Occupation and afterwards. CM Woodward in his study on the Greek Civil War states that "he killed many more Greeks then Germans during the war".

The preceding text was added to the article by User:Erochester007 0n September 19, 2010, However this is commentary and belongs on the talk page ClamDip (talk) 19:03, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the Security Battalions were INDEED founded, organized and armed by the Nazi occupation forces. Therefore, they were by definition collaborationist groups. The rest of this pro-Security Battalion rhetoric reminds me too much of modern neo-nazi propaganda I've heard far too often. Please keep it out of Wikipedia.Elp gr (talk) 17:58, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Seconded. The Security Battalions in Greecee were indeed founded by the Nazi occupation forces and it's a bloody shame that Greece's right wing tries to gloss over their collaborationist nature (not to mention their repeated vandalisms of any Wikipedia entry that shows the true nature of the collaborationists). Moderatelyaverage (talk) 20:41, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Disruptive editing

User Fitnfun02 keeps on reverting the page in order to (a) present the Security Battalions as a right-wing Greek para-military force that had nothing to do with the Nazi occupation forces, even though the Wikipedia article, backed by verifiable sources, clearly states their collaborationist nature, (b) present the execution of 1,144 Security Battalion members in Meligalas as an act of "hard-line communists" against "innocent" right-wingers. He goes on to include (despite of what historical evidence shows) women and children in the victims, even if relatives of the victims do not claim that non-adults were executed. Matters are made worse by the fact that Fitnfun02 does NOT cite sources - in fact, the reference at the end of this article disproves his claims. To me, it seems that Fitnfun02 is disruptively editing/edit warring in order to promote a historical revisionism in favor of Nazi collaborationists, a trend that unfortunately cannot be considered unrelated to the current rise of neo-nazism in Greece. If user Fitnfun02 is willing to present REAL evidence that supports his claims, I want to see it. So far, though, what I see is unsupported claims that are even disproved and refuted by the cited sources (and the only Greek authors and bloggers that support Fitnfun02's claims belong to the extreme-right side of the Greek political spectrum, with a surprisingly large number of them being more or less open neo-nazis). EDIT: I also wish to add that user Fitnfun02 has not bothered to even post a single sentence in the article's talk page to explain his actions and views. Elp gr (talk) 19:35, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Disruptive editing part II

It seems that this page keeps being visited by Greek pro-Nazi people who think they are entitled to change History as they see fit. Moderatelyaverage (talk) 13:56, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Major edit

I have just expanded this article. I have changed the battle dates to fit with my sources, but I won't be offended if someone who knows better changes them back. It would be interesting to have more data on the question and number of prisoners - one source says that ELAS did all they could to protect the prisoners from the wrath of the locals.

I am intrigued that the far-right and the descendents of collaborators have such a huge presence in the English-language discussions on Greek history on the web, whereas the German equivalent have a much lower profile, and are vigorously opposed. Bougatsa42 (talk) 03:39, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

The ELAS regular formation executed some 180 prisoners, but after a trial, acused as a war criminals. Probably they were. And then the ELAS regulars went out of Meligalas, the irregulars (together with ELAS militia) were about 4.000 men and they did the rest. You have to see it in a cultural aspect - vendeta has been the first right in Peloponese. But! But the communist party (KKE) took the responsibility for "eliminating 800", that means kiling all solders, not civilians. That way you should not blame ELAS, but you can blame the KKE for the execution (without trial) of war prisoners. Certainly it has been the KKE ideology. I mean the ideology of kiling the nazi volounteers solders. --Dimkoa (talk) 05:50, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Actually, the extermination of the nazi volunteers could be attributed to (a) the wrath of the people who had been bullied around by the Security Battalions and the other collaborationists and black marketeers, (b) an impromptu application by the public of the Military Penal Code, which sentences traitors and collaborationists to death. Moderatelyaverage (talk) 10:04, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

(Further edit) Foreign Office memos confirm Kannavos's report about the battalionists killing their hostages during the battle. The memo about Ares which I have just added is relevant to Moderatelyaverage's comment. I gather something similar happened at Kilkis - the road from Kilkis to Thessaloniki was lined with angry women and old people with sticks and rocks in their hands, and the ELAS guards were hard put to bring their prisoners in safely (needless to say the prisoners were promptly released and rearmed by the police in Thessaloniki). I would still like to know how many prisoners were brought into Kalamata by Ares.

I really don't want to be rude, but I can't for the life of me understand why we are talking about ELAS being war criminals, when all the evidence points to atrocities committed by the Security Battalions, at Aprochomo and Meligala (leaving aside their activities in Kalamata). Bougatsa42 (talk) 06:00, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

The neo-nazis of Greece think they can sway Wikipedia their way by spreading disinfo. Moderatelyaverage (talk) 17:40, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

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