Talk:FIU–Miami football brawl

A fact from FIU–Miami football brawl appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 22 October 2006. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that last week's first-ever football meeting between the University of Miami and Florida International University was marred by a massive brawl that led to the suspension of 31 players?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2006/October.

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Errors

A bulk of the context on this page is factually erroneous. I try to edit it to provide accurate content, but am continuosly finding my facts replaced with falsehoods. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chwck12 (talk • contribs)

I was reverting unsourced changes. Instead, I've now tagged the article and will return when I have more time to see what information on this page is verifiable. Right now, it's a complete mess of opinions. --Onorem 14:13, 19 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe we should have a more detailed report of the cause of the initial fight, as the FIU player didnt just charge up to the placeholder and fight with him, when he actually was getting into the face of another player when the Miami place-holder tried to seperate them, then the fray started... most videos unfortunately dont show this particular sequence, but there are a few videos that particularly show this is the causation of the inital conflict. Cablebfg 16:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am considering nominating this article for deletion, but I would like some imput first. Why is a college fight like this even notable? YankeeGal 22:35, 21 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is one of several incidents in the recent past, and has had a huge media roar over the past week. We also have several credible facts to go off of, including numerous reports over the incident. I dont honestly know what ur looking for, i think its a fairly serious issue, but its just my opinion. Cablebfg 03:11, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Serious POV problems

I've never been to the US and don't know anyone in the US and personally I think American football is a crap game and not football by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not trying to debate this matter simply pointing it out to make it clear I don't favour either side in this matter. Anyway now that I've got that over with I can get to the main point there seems to be (potentially) very serious POV problems in this article. This incident appears to have been started by a FIU player who attacked another player. Whatever else may have happened this appears to have been the catalyst of brawl. More importantly 8 FIU players were penalised while only 5 Miami players (and AFAIK these are imposed by the referee i.e. a neutral person). Later, 18 FIU players were suspended while only 13 Miami players (although it appears these are self-imposed and has come under some controversy). All this suggests to me that FIU were the greater violators in this incident. Nil Einne 10:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yet currently, it lists 4 'notable' events. No info on who decided the particular events were notable or why they were noteable in an all out brawl. This is particularly an issue because it lists 3 offenses committed by Miami players against FIU and one committed by a FIU player against Miami. Later, it claims the 'national media' are saying it is Miami's fault. No evidence is provided for this claim. It then goes on to list a bunch of offenses supposedly committed by Miami all of which are unsourced. (It also lists some FIU offenses which are at least sourced) Even if these offenses were committed, we have to be careful here. IMHO it would be quite wrong for us to link to a bunch of offenses commited by Miami (or FIU) unless other reliable sources have mentioned these offenses in connection with this incident. I.E. Just because we have evidence for the other offenses doesn't mean we should mention them in wikipedia. Nil Einne 10:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is controversy because all 18 of the FIU players got suspended indef. and two of those released from the team, while 12 player from Miami simply got 1 game suspensions and 1 was suspended indef. This is controversial because why certainly some FIU players caused the initial brawl, they were dealt with harshly as well as the other players that probably had minor roles, similar to a majority of the Maimi players... Merriweather and the player suspended indef from Miami's team both clearly were going above just a simple brawl, using a helmet and stomping on players... its not because FIU players were more at fault, its because while both teams had players doing similar things, FIU's punishments were alot harsher even though they have not been heavily scrutinized by the media in the past. Cablebfg 20:21, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to be missing the point somewhat. The article as it stands now appears to be slanting towards saying that Miami was the worse team in this whole incident not as you claim that they simply didn't punish their players harshly enough (this is mentioned but the way it's done, it seems to be part of the whole Miami is bad that I feel this article is saying). For example "On the surface, the FIU players triggered the brawl. However, the national media largely pointed blame towards Miami, as this was the latest in a disturbing series of incidents for Miami in the months prior" (which as I have stated above is completely unsourced along with the incidents that are mentioned). Also, if both sides were committing similarly bad offenses (like stomping and bashing people with heltmets) more of the incidents involving FIU players on Miami should be mentioned. And as I have stated, the fact that FIU got 8 penalities and Miami got only 5 which AFAIK are handed out by neutral officialls/referees suggests to me there was a greater number of bad offenses commited by FIU not Miami. Nil Einne 15:20, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Nil Einne, that's the problem. There weren't similar bad offences like stomping and bashing people with helmets by FIU. ANd the reason why more FIU players were suspended is because the schools and their respective conferences are separate and handled discipline on their own. The clearer answer is that one school and conference was a lot more lenient.

Confusing

A Miami player, Willie Cooper, was shot outside his home shortly before training camp began in what players contend was a robbery attempt. Meriweather, who was legally carrying a weapon after obtaining a concealed carry permit, returned fire. Police found no reason to press charges, and neither did the court of public opinion.

The above doesn't make much sense. Who is Meriweather? A teammate of Willie Cooper who was with him at the time? Willie Cooper? Some random guy? In any case, I don't particularly get why this incident is even mentioned if no offense was committed by anyone on Miami's side and it wasn't even Miami's fault in the first place. Is it an offense to be shot at by someone attempting to rob you in the US? Unless of course Willie Cooper was trying to rob Meriweather who shot at him Nil Einne 10:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Minor offense?

Wide receiver Ryan Moore, who was suspended for the Peach Bowl for violating team rules, was then suspended again for other infractions; reasons for his suspension have yet to come to fruition, as the allegation that he got into a fight with a girl is purely speculative since he has not faced a single charge for the act. Miami also suspended three other starters for the season's first (and biggest) game against Florida State for missing study hall.

The first appears to have been an isolated and as far as we know fairly minor incident by one player so IMHO it doesn't really have any relevance to the brawl. I also question whether missing study hall is an offense of any merit when considering the brawl... Nil Einne 10:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Coker section

I'm removing this section. The opening line calling his comments "inappropriate" leads to a POV problem off the bat. The comment about FIU players wishing they were at Miami is unsourced. Nothing wrong with the quote and possibly adding that John Niyo of The Detroit News called it laughable, but I don't see a place where it looks like it fits...and it doesn't deserve it's own section. --Onorem 12:53, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Edit coming soon

To follow up on the unattended inquiries regarding this wiki entry's bias as mentioned above for the last year, there are a few changes that I will be making:

Unless verifiable reasoning for what makes incidents "notable," that section should and will be removed.
TWO quotes from Lamar Thomas reeks of bias and is particularly inflammatory.
I will also be swapping the order of suspensions listing. There is no conceivable reason Miami should be listed first in the suspesion listing: FIU instigated the fight, had more suspensions, and most importantly FIU is first alphabetically (which is the only way to truly remove bias).
Media coverage is a completely unreferenced section. Where's the source that Sportsceneter delayed coverage? The comparison to the coverage of the Pistons-Pacers fight?
Who was at fault again is biased as those other suspensions and controersies areunrelated. Instead, perhaps a link to the "controversies" section of Miami Hurricanes football would be appropriate.

--Mcmachete 22:37, 19 August 2007 (UTC). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mcmachete (talk • contribs).

DONE. -- Mcmachete 22:47, 26 August 2007 (UTC). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcmachete (talk • contribs)