Talk:National Liberation Army (Macedonia)

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Operated, not operates[edit]

Ushtria Çlirimtare Kombëtare no longer exists. I sincerely do not believe that anyone with a deep knowledge of the Albanian-Macedonian issues thinks that Ushtria Çlirimtare Kombëtare exists today. If you think that it does exist, then please explain why you think that is the case and most importantly provide proof to back your arguments.

If we all agree that Ushtria Çlirimtare Kombëtare no longer exists, we could then slightly modify the article to say that it operated, not operates in Macedonia. In other world, move from the present tense to the past tense.

I look forward to hearing your views. -- Kosovar 16:07, 23 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I was mystified by that as well........but on a second thought I think it may have been written a while ago.--Ferick 02:54, 28 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Civilian death[edit]

We need exact info and details, same for soldiers on both sides. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.107.220.167 (talk • contribs) .

See the Casulties and displacement in the 2001 Macedonia conflict section I authored yesterday. El_C 07:59, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NLA is a terrorist organisation[edit]

The NLA is recognized as a terrorist organization by the U.S. government, the CIA and MIPT, therefore it is not my POV but that of other third-party governments or government funded organizations. Frightner 19:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Present sources please? Mr. Neutron 19:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I already redirected you to a source, but for the sake of proving you wrong... again. Here. Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism is a organization funded by the Department of Homeland Security, just so you don't jump to a conclusion of the source being "nationalistic". Frightner 19:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The sources talks about "Albanian National Army" not about "National liberation Army". Get a proper source. Mr. Neutron 20:00, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"The group, which grew out of insurgent Albanian groups that battled Macedonian troops in 2001..." They are obviously remnants of the NLA, what's the difference? Frightner 20:12, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The group was linked with the Kosovo Liberation Army, another group recognized as a terror organization. [1] Both group are identified as UCK in Albanian. Their logos is practically the same. They both operated in Macedonia. They both fought for a Greater Albania ideology. What more do you want? Frightner 20:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I still dont see a link to describe NLA as "terrorist". Mr. Neutron 20:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Mr. Neutron has a point. The NLA and KLA were obviously closely related, but we can't just extend the description of the KLA to cover the NLA as well. I don't doubt your assertion that it was designated as a terrorist organisation; however, we do need to have a source for this statement. Where did you get the info from in the first place? Could you provide your source for us to have a look at? -- ChrisO 22:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It has been in the 2001 Macedonia conflict article for a while now; "In 2001, the U.S. recognized the NLA as a terrorist organization" and has not been disputed by any ethnic Albanian contributors to the article. Frightner 05:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A NATO spokesman, George Robertson called them "murderous thugs" and "terrorists" that had be legitimized as "freedom fighters"[2]. "In a strange twist the CIA, NATO, and British Special Forces provided weapons and training to the NLA/KLA terrorists, while at the same time, Germany provided Macedonia's security forces with all-terrain vehicles, advanced weapons, and equipment to protect themselves from NLA/KLA attacks." "Washington's humanitarian efforts for the NLA/KLA suggested its intent to protect the terrorists rather then disarm them." "The KLA-NLA terrorists are funded by US military aid, the United Nations peace-keeping budget, as well as by several Islamic organisations including Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda." "A major war, supposedly "against international terrorism", has been launched by the Bush Administration. In Macedonia, however, the evidence amply confirms that the Bush Administration (together with NATO) is directly supporting terrorist organisations which have links to Al Qaeda." [3] Frightner 05:40, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's a fringe website - I don't think it qualifies as a reliable source. I'll see if I can find an alternative source for the assertion. -- ChrisO 07:51, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Which website? Because the first one quotes the NATO representative so technically it's not POV. The second one may be dismissed as I'm not clear on the journalists ethnicity. Frightner 13:08, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
He probably means antiwar.com. Maybe get a government or encyclopedia source? Mr. Neutron 14:33, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
George Robinson is basically a government source, he is a NATO representative. Let me say that again, NATO representative. Frightner 09:23, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:UCK NLA.jpg[edit]

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BetacommandBot (talk) 11:19, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

NLA in the Macedonian encyclopedia[edit]

The Macedonian encyclopedia written by the Macedonian Academy of arts and Science is to be published in the following days in Macedonia. The first copies that were made public created a lot of noise in the media and political parties. As the media reports, there are few controversial entries, one of them that the NLA was trained by SAS at some point. Today, the university professor that wrote that article said on TV that she got the information from Wikipedia. http://vesti.alfatv.com.mk/default.aspx?mId=36&egId=1&eventId=13202 (in Macedonian). Новица (talk) 16:59, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

NLA, terrorist organisation? [Reloaded][edit]

NLA, a terrorist organisation? Which country regards it as one? When did that happen?

I can't find any source that labels NLA as a terrorist organization. The provided source isn't reliable and doesn't label NLA as a terrorist organization, something that says: "NLA is a terrorist organization, and is regarded as such from US, UK, EU, etc.".

This is a serious topic, and labeling something as "terrorist" without strong facts, isn't OK. The following articles: Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, Hamas (to name a few), have really strong arguments that label them as terrorist organizations. In this case, such facts are missing (or maybe do not exist at all).

Those editors that think that NLA is a terrorist organization, need to bring strong facts to the table instead of POV pushing. Thank you. kedadial 22:15, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]


US goverment Foreign Terrorist Organizations
OFFICE OF THE COORDINATOR FOR COUNTERTERRORISM
July 7, 2009
http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm
NLA TERRORIST ORGANIZATION
_____________________________________________________
Official Journal of the European Union
COUNCIL COMMON POSITION 2005/847/CFSP
of 29 November 2005
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/site/en/oj/2005/l_314/l_31420051130en00410045.pdf
NLA TERRORIST ORGANIZATION
______________________________________________________
see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_organisations
Alex Makedon (talk) 11:08, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Alex, thank you for your informations. It seems that those informations are talking about National Liberation Army (Colombia) better known as ELN (which by the way is considered a terrorist organization by the US and the EU) and not about this NLA. Thank you. kedadial 15:08, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Kedadi, from your page I see you support a highly controversal "reunification of Albania" this idea also known as the irridentistic and often extremist "Great Albania" ideology, am I right?
Here is another related article, where the NLA acts are described as terrorism.
http://www.newsinsider.org/editorials/intervention_in_Macedonia.html
thank you.Alex Makedon (talk) 18:53, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Below, I'll answer to your question and the provided link:

"... from your page I see you support a highly controversal "reunification of Albania" this idea also known as the irridentistic and often extremist "Great Albania" ideology, am I right?"

Even though it's offtopic, yes you are right. It's my fundamental right to proclaim that. And by that, I do not hate neighboring countries but I just think that countries should be ethnically clean. Don't get me wrong on this, because thats how other countries (not just Albania, but also Macedonia, Greece, Serbia, Montenegro, etc.) should be (IMHO) to avoid "ethnic issues" once and forever.

"Here is another related article, where the NLA acts are described as terrorism. http://www.newsinsider.org/editorials/intervention_in_Macedonia.html"

Thanks again for the link. By reading the first few words of the first paragraph, I saw that the article is a "POV pushing one" instead of a "reliable one". To label it as a terrorist organization we need a reliable source, which clearly cites which countries label it as such, when did that happen and why.
Thank you. kedadial 00:46, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Associated with the KLA,ANA and considered a terrorist organization even by association.A transmuted entity from previous terrorist organizations.An updated version of the KLA and nothing more.
  • The Fight Against Terrorism and Crisis Management in the Western Balkans by Iztok Prezelj,2008,ISBN-1586038230,page 49-50
  • Islamic Terror and the Balkans by Shaul Shay,2009,ISBN 1412808685,page 115,
  • The United Nations & regional security: Europe and beyond by Michael Charles Pugh,Waheguru Pal Singh Sidhu,2003,ISBN- 1588262324,page 126,
  • Understanding Civil War: Europe, Central Asia, and other regions by Paul Collier,Nicholas Sambanis,2005.,ISBN-0821360493,page 238-239,241,242,256,254
  • Megistias (talk) 12:39, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Please restore the article, and its not spamming to add refs diff,diffMegistias (talk) 10:02, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You're using a reference to label NLA as a terrorist group while your reference doesn't label it as such (funny, huh?). It's called POV pushing with a camouflaged reference.
NLA links with KLA is already mentioned in the article.
Thank you. kedadial 14:32, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Islamic Terror and the Balkans by Shaul Shay,page 113,
  • The Albanian terror organizations established after the conversion of the KLA into the KPC were:
  • The Liberation army of Presevo,Medvedja and Bujanonac
  • The National Liberation army (NLA)
  • The Albanian national army (ANA)Megistias (talk) 17:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My references label the organization(s) as Terrorist.Megistias (talk) 17:59, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Albanian an unofficial language?[edit]

I'm not sure what this statement is supposed to mean, probably the writer meant the exact opposite: "...making Albanian an official language...". Check these sentence under "Ceasefire and disarmament":

Under the Ohrid Agreement, the Macedonian government pledged to improve the rights of the Albanian population, that make up just over 25 % of the population.[32] Those rights include making Albanian language an unofficial language, increasing the participation of ethnic Albanians in government institutions, police and army.

It wouldn't make any sense to have the right to make Albanian an unofficial language... . Therefore, the opposite must be meant. 77.57.187.223 (talk) 09:10, 14 December 2010 (UTC) e_l_[reply]

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