This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Please do not add your own commentary and criticism to Wikipedia. Thankyou Arniep 15:27, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Arnie you have NO CLUE

=======

Thanks for stating that. This was a trick question. Nobody can get a full birth certificate of the small tenor as there are questions regarding who is his real father. The small man blocked getting one. Try to get one yourself. The tenorissimo website also stated at one point that Dommingo sang more roles than any other tenors. It si a fan site. You said no personal opinion. I guess it depends which personal opinion. Reviews you publish are personal opinions. What about the 78 rpm recordings. Not a jolly good show Arnie old boy.

Arnie should get a FULL birth certificate of Domingo. Lauri Volpi talked early about the birthdate of Domingo, long before it was claimed to be 1941. By the way if it was 1941, Domingo would have been about 15-17 when he recorded Fascist Spanish songs on Spanish Columbia in the 78 format. If Domingo lied about his repertory on his site, he could have lied about many other things.

His birth certificate was obtained by the author Daniel Snowman which confirmed his birth date as 1941. See this page for an explanation. Arniep 15:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

=======

You have no clue Sir as it was pointed out that Domingo sang more roles than any other tenors. The Rubini repertory proves the opposite

==

Who cares about this when you want to read up about Domingo?

Put this stuff into the Rubini page. People interested in Rubini, can go read it there.

The Reference: Cassinelli/Maltempi/Pozzoni Rubini l'uomo e l'artista, Cassa Rurale ed Artigiana di Calcio e di Covo 1993 documents that Rubini sang a lot more roles than Placido Domingo. The following link gives the number of roles sung by Domingo on stage

Arniep makes the statement that Domingo sang more roles than any tenor in history. Question for Arnie:

Do you know how many roles every tenor in history sang? Do you know how many roles Enrico Tamberlick sang? How about Gaetano Fraschini? How about Mario? How about Rubini?

I will stop here, but hope you get the point. And please remember, any statements made in Wikipedia have to be verifiable (supported by facts), not the wishful thinking of a fan.

From Arnold

Roles sang by Rubini by composers:

Balducci
L'amante virtuoso- 1823
Il sospetto funesto- 1820

Balfe
Sir John Falstaff- 1838

Bellini
Bianca e Gernando- 1826
Il Pirata- 1827
Bianca e Fernando- 1829
La sonnambula- 1831
I Capuletti e I Montecchi- 1833
Norma- 1835
I puritani- 1835
La Straniera- 1839

Benedict
Giacinta ed Ernesto- 1827

Bertini
Una visita in Bedlam- 1824

Boieldieu
La dame blanche- 1827

Carafa
Gabriella di Vergy- 1820
Il sacrificio di Epito- 1821
La capricciosa e il soldato- 1823

Carlini
Adelaide di Baviera- 1821
Il contracambio- 1823

Cimarosa
Il matrimonio segreto- 1819

Coccia
Arrighetto- 1818
La donna selvaggio- 1821

Conti
Olimpia- 1826
Giovanna Shore- 1829

Cordella
L'azzardo fortunao- 1814
Il castello degli invalidi- 1822

Costa
Malek Adel- 1837
Malvina- 1829

Donizetti
La lettera anonima- 1822
Elvida- 1826
L'esule di Roma- 1828
Gianni di Calais- 1828
Il giovedi grsso- 1829
IL paria- 1829
Anna bolena- 1830
L'aio nell'imbarazzo- 1832
Marin Faliero- 1835
Lucia di Lammermoor- 1837
Parisina D'Este- 1838
Roberto Deveureux- 1838
Don Pasquale- 1844
L'Elisir d'Amore- 1844

Farinelli
Ginevra degli Almieri- 1817

Fioravanti
Adelson e Salvini- 1816
I virtuosi ambulanti- 1816
Adelaide e Comingio- 1817
Enrico IV al passagio della Marna- 1818
La morte di Adelaide- 1819

Frasi
La selva di Hermannstadt- 1827

Gabussi
Ernani- 1834

Gaglairdi
Meleago- 1826

Garcia
Il Califo di Bagdad- 1820

Generali
La festa meravigliosa- 1822
Adelina- 1823
La lagrime di una vedova- 1823
Elena e Alfredo- 1823

Gnecco
La prova di un'opera seria- 1835

Guglielmi
Don Papirio- 1814
Paolo e Virginia- 1830

Lanza
La nozze per fanatismo- 1821

Lvof
Bianca e Gualtiero- 1845

Majocchi
Rosamunda- 1830

Manna
Qui tollis- 1845

Marliani

Il Bravo- 1834
Ildegonda- 1837

Mayr
Adelasia ed Aleramo- 1812
Il venditore d'aceta- 1814
Elena e Costanza- 1816
Il sogno di Partenope- 1817
L'amore avvocata- 1817
Le duc duchesse- 1819
Il portatore d'acqua- 1822
Medea in Corinto- 1823
Il trionfo della musica- 1823
Corpus Domini- 1832
Dominus a destris tuis- 1845

Mercadente
Anacreonte in Samo- 1820
Apoteosi d'Ercole- 1820
Doralice- 1824
Il podestà di Burgos- 1824
I Briganti- 1836
Il giuramento- 1840

Mililotti
Casa da vendere- 1816
Ginanni di Parigi (Morlacchi)- 1820

Mosca
Il disperato per eccesso di buon cuore- 1816
Don Gregorio- 1816
L'impostire o il marcotondo- 1819
I pretendenti delusi- 1820
L'abate d'Epee- 1826

Mozart
Cosi fan tutte- 1815
Don Giovanni- 1831
Le nozze di Figaro- 1840

Niedermeyer
Il reo per amore- 1821

Pacini
Il barone di Dolsheim- 1820
Il falegname di Livonia- 1823
La gioventù di Enrico V- 1816
Niobe- 1826
L'ultimo giorno di Pompei- 1826
Amazilia- 1826
Il talismano- 1829
Arabi nelle Gallie- 1830
Giovanna D'Arco- 1830

Paër
Il principe di Taranto- 1813
Agnese di Fitzhenry- 1818
La Camilla- 1823
Il maestro di cappella- 1828

F. Paini
La cameriera astuta- 1815

Paisiello
Nina, o la pazza per amore- 1816
La modista raggiratrice- 1819

Pavesi
La festa della rosa- 1817
Il cavaliere del Nodo- 1823

Persianai
Il solitario- 1829
Ines De Castro- 1839

Prota
Il Cimento felice- 1815

Pucitta
I due prigionieri- 1814

Raimondi
La caccia di Enrico IV- 1822
La donna colonnello- 1822
Argia- 1823
Il cestellino- di fiori- 1828

L. Ricci
Chiara di Rosembergh- 1833

Rieschi
Bianca di Belmonte- 1829

Rossini
La pietro di paragone- ? Tancredi- 1814
L'Italiana in Algeri- 1815
Otello (Rodrigo)- 1817
Otello (Otello)- 1825
La gazza ladra- 1818
La cenerentola- 1818
Torvaldo e Dorliska- 1818
Igea- 1819
Il sogno di Partenope- 1819
Il barbiere di Siviglia- 1820
La donna del lago- 1820
Elisabethe regina d'Inghilterra- 1820
L'ingano felice- 1821
La riconoscenza- 1821
Mathilde di Sabran- 1822
Semiramide- 1823
Zelmira- 1826
Mosè I Egitto- 1827
L'assedio di Corinto- 1828
Guilaume Tell- 1839
Il turco in Italia- 1841

Sampieri
La foresta d'Ostropol- 1822

Staffa
Priamo alla tenda di Achille- 1828

G. Tadolini
Bestie in uomini- 1815

Trento
Emilia di Liverpaut- 1817

Vaccai
Saul- 1829

G. Veighl
Il rivale di se stesso- 1820

Zingarelli
Giulietta e Romeo- 1830

Composer unknown or not indentifiable
Pamela nubile- 1819
La fondazione di Partenope- 1824
Dolmira e Zamori- 1826
Il trionfo della musica- 1827

Protected

I've protected this page pending a resolution of the dispute on it. By way of getting such resolution started, I've copied below my comment from WP:RfP:

I've read the external website linked from talk, and this gives me the distinct impression that there is some dispute about the birthdate in places other than Wikipedia. I would suggest, therefore, that you craft a phrasing of the article that acknowledges the difficulties in this regard, rather than trying to make the article reach a conclusion of its own as to the worth (or otherwise) of alternative birthdates. -Splash^talk 16:55, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, absent any discussion, I'm going to try unprotecting. -Splash^talk 03:25, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Please add an external link to tenorissimo.com

Dear editors, it would be nice if you could add an external link to www.tenorissimo.com. Inside the article on Domingo there is a link to a page on tenorissimo, but it is missing in the 'External Links' section. Tnanks. 84.178.217.126 23:52, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Placido a Mexican Citizen?

As far as I know all the references and official biographies I have found say that Placido is Spanish and not Mexican. Since he was born in Spain and he moved to Mexico while he was 8 to move out again in his early 20s I think it is logical to suppose him as Spanish, but let's see what I have found on the Internet:

Encarta (in Spanish) --> [1] "tenor lírico español que gracias a su voz flexible y noble puede interpretar papeles de tenor dramático"
Mail & Guadian --> [2] "The Spanish tenor was to premiere the new lyrics of his country's anthem -- a military march long performed without words -- later this month"
The Guardian --> [3] "The Spanish tenor, who is now 65, has managed to keep his career going well beyond an age at which most opera singers have retired".
The Washington Post --> [4] "The renowned Spanish tenor's dream may not be far from reality in the digital age".
Monsters & Critics --> [5] "Spanish tenor Placido Domingo delivers a speech on 14th Operalia at Palau de les Arts auditorium on Thursday 26 October 2006 in Valencia, eastern Spain. Operalia is an international Opera competition"
El Mundo (in Spanish) --> [6] "El tenor español Plácido Domingo lucirá hoy una nariz superlativa cuando interprete el papel de Cyrano"
Astrobank (not very reliable) --> [7] "Even though he keeps his Spanish citizenship, he holds close ties to Mexico and he raised $2 million for the Mexico City disaster fund. He was honored by the president of Mexico with its highest honor, the Order of the Aztec Eagle for (...)"
BBC News --> [8] "Spanish tenor Placido Domingo has picked up two prizes at the annual Classical Brit Awards in London."
Klassicakzente (in German) --> [9]"Der spanische Tenor Plácido Domingo ist eine der großen Persönlichkeiten des internationalen Musiklebens"
Kourier (in German) --> [10] "Der spanische Startenor Placido Domingo hat am Freitag im Vatikan eine CD mit Liedern nach Gedichten des verstorbenen Papstes Johannes Paul II. vorgestellt. Er habe aus Karol Wojtylas Lyrik zwölf"
Vanityfair (in German) --> [11] "spanischer Tenor, Dirigent und Operndirektor"
Eventi di Vernona (in Italian) --> [12]"JOSE’ PLACIDO DOMINGO EMBIL (Madrid, 21 gennaio 1941) è un cantante e direttore d'orchestra spagnolo, considerato tra le più significative personalità"
Larousse (in French) --> [13] "Ténor espagnol (Madrid 1941)"
Le Monde (in French) --> [14]"Le ténor espagnol Placido Domingo va intégrer « quelques chansons en maya » qui constitueront « une surprise » dans le concert qu'il devait donner, le 4 octobre, sur le célèbre site archéologique mexicain de Chichen Itza, dans le Yucatan"
Domingo's Official Website --> [15]
Placido-Domingo Britannica website --> [16]
Bookrags Website --> [17]

It is also worth note Grove Dictionary of Music, Oxford University Press, 1994, Warrack, J. and West, E. The Oxford Dictionary of Opera, OUP, 1992 AND "Plácido Domingo" The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition, Columbia University Press, 2003. They say nothing about him being a mexican citizen, although say that he has lived in Mexico.

I don't know if he took up the Mexican Citizenship, but he did live there continuously from age 8 (1949?) to 1962. Did he become Mexican during these 13 years?

Just for the record: I am neither spanish nor Mexican, although I have lived both in Mexico and Spain (and in Finland, France, Italy, Argentine...). I just want this article to be as precise as possible.

Please, Unless if you have a copy of his birth certificate and you can prove it, DO NOT change his nationality.

--Nandonaranja (talk) 19:23, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think anyone is denying his Spanish origins so a birth certificate has little to do with it. I do know from his father's New York Times obituary that both of his parents became Mexican citizens. It would seem reasonable that Placido would have as well at the same time but the article doesn't comment on his citizenship either way.[18] Nrswanson (talk) 22:50, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Nrswanson. Nandonaranja, do you know that his first son is Mexican? And yes, I do have a prove and will only show it if it is necessary (definately NOT to you but to the admin if I have to). I honor my promise to his son that it will only be used if it is necessary. Thanks - Jay (talk) 16:36, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your message. All right, but as far as there's no reputable and verifiable source indicating that he has a mexican passport (as there are many indicating he is a Spanish citizen - and sorry, it is not enough saying that you have a paper that says he is mexican), I think we should go for "Spanish Tenor". Sorry mate, but your honour without a verifiable and source is worth nothing here. By the way talk, my second daughter was born in France, where my wife and I lived for over 10 years, and she’s got a French passport (and French nationality). Neither my wife nor I are French… so, what if Placido’s first son is Mexican?. I insist Jay, if you have no reputable sources saying clearly that he holds mexican nationality stop changing it. --Nandonaranja (talk) 19:30, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

This is interesting. I have always heard that he is Spanish. Actually, a couple of years ago I heard an interview on the radio (in German), and he said that he is spanish but that mexico has a especial place in his heart. If I can find it I will post it as a source. --Karljoos (talk) 21:06, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Nandonaranja.. I am amazed! You called me vandalised Plácido Domingo article? Care to look at the history of the article? You said you want the article to be as precise as possible but you neglected his parents, both his wives and his son - they are all Mexican; not to mentioned many other of his family members. You want it to be precised but what is your contribution to that article other than arguing about this? If you looked at Domingo talkpage (archived) from the beginning, at once I was like you. I keep removing "the Mexican" part from the page until I did research and understand his history, his family and his "special feeling" like what quoted by Karljoos. I have been working in this article for years (by contacting his Manager and family to get the "precise" facts like "what you want" but yet you just burge-in and call me doing the "vandalism" and insisting on one "part" only without understanding the whole thing? I never denied his Spanish origin. At once, this article was heavily edited, some said "Spanish" while the other party said "Mexican" (PLEASE LOOK AT THE HISTORY). Instead of having continues edit warring between "Spanish" and "Mexican", I wrote it as "Spanish-Mexican". Personally he deserves to be part of Mexican. There is where most of his family members are/from and where he grew up. You can report this to the admin and call me vandalism if you want, but the fact is, he is half Spanish-Mexican by the history of his life. That is precise! What makes me upset with you is, you called me "that" without checking - Jay (talk) 03:40, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I have added a citation tag to this assertion until a reliable third-party source is found showing that he is commonly considered Spanish-Mexican. --Chasingsol ^(talk) 04:15, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Please also reference discussion at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Placido_Domingo. Thank you. --Chasingsol ^(talk) 04:18, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I have reviewed the sources that Nandonaranja has provided. Placido Domingo holds Spanish citizenship. His wife and children are Mexican nationals. If for example, his parents had been Spanish and Mexican, then he could be considered Spanish-Mexican. That is not the case, both his parents are of Spanish descent. There are many sites that state that he could be considered more Mexican than Spanish, however Placido was born in Spain and has held Spanish citizenship his entire life. The sources provided also reflect the same information, with news organizations routinely referring to him as Spanish. I am going to be WP:BOLD and remove an unsourced statement and change the article back to state Spanish only. If you can find reliable sources that state that his nationality is Spanish-Mexican, then we should discuss this further on this page and reach consensus between all parties. Best regards. --Chasingsol ^(talk) 04:56, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Jay, during the interview he said that mexico had a special place in his heart, but when asked about some opera competition in Spain he was chairing, I remember he said that he was very happy that the competition was happening in his country. I think I was in a tour with my orchestra (I think in Eisenstadt) when I heard the interview and I think it was broadcasted in an all-classical music austrian radio station. I have been researching but I couldn't find the interview, sorry. However, I don't see why the fact that he did live in Mexico, is married to a Mexican and likes the country does make him a Mexican. Couldn't we say that he "is a Spanish tenor" (a fact well sourced)in the intro and then later in the article highlight the fact that he has ties with Mexico (also a fact well sourced)? --Karljoos (talk) 22:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Excellent suggestion. I think Karljoos has hit upon the best solution based on the sources we have. Unless something definitive is found confirming his Mexican citizenship, than we really can not call call him "Spanish-Mexican". However, I do think the lead should be altered to make note of his strong ties to that country. Perhaps mentioning that his opera career began there would be a nice entryway into doing that.Nrswanson (talk) 22:23, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Nrswanson. May I suggest that until new sources are cited, the "wrong" categories are removed from the main article? --Karljoos (talk) 23:58, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

By all means remove any wrong categories.Nrswanson (talk) 00:10, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and readded Category:Grammy Awards for Best Mexican/Mexican-American Album since he did actually win that one, and it is not related to his nationality. --Chasingsol ^(talk) 00:50, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

If you guys review the archive, we've discussed this before. I posted a link to a video interview of Placido, in which he refers to himself as both, Spanish and Mexican, is that not enough? One more thing... he can be categorized in Category:People from Teaneck, New Jersey, but not as Mexican or from Mexico City despite living there for over thirteen years since he was eight and considering himself a Mexican? -- Lancini87 (talk) 02:33, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Lancini, though I agree with you but I am tired of argument with others. Lets just follow majority whether they are "right" or "wrong". Domingo once had a Mexican citizenship but he let it go for some reason (e-mail from his son earlier this morning confirmed this, I asked him because I have lost the article about this. I will try to get the source from intenet again, if i could find. I do not want to reveal the e-mail unless if I have to). The reason why I wrote "Spanish-Mexican" is actually because of his "Spanish citizenship" + his close relationship with Mexico and Mexican". He has a house in Mexico. Most of his closed family members live in Mexico and many more things that linked to Mexico more than Spain - while in a same time am not denying he is no longer a Mexican citizenship. Based on research that all of us can EASILY get from the internet about his "close relationship" with Mexico, he deserves to be labelled as Spanish-Mexican. As a mater of fact, he himself admitted that he is a "Spanish-Mexican" based on the video interview (You guys can search for yourself). However, as I said, I do not want to argue because there is no point on doing that. Other than info that I received straight from his son or his Manager, all these can be easily gotten from the net. Im writing about him based on good faith and because I care for him, that is all. That is why I laughed when User:Nandonaranja was preeching about precise. I will still continue writing in here but we have lost the "precise info" because some people ignore some of the facts and prefer to quote straight from the internet without thinking of the logic and reasoning. Thanks - Jay (talk) 03:13, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

OMG! Some people are just really obstinate! Please if you have a video, if you have a letter or if you have a document that says that Placido Domingo has NOW a Mexican passport / Nationality, even if you contacted his grandmother and she told you he has a Mexican passport, AND YOU CAN PROVE IT (just because you say you have them is not enough) then post the source and it will be reviewed. Even if, as you said, Placido Domingo says he is a Mexican Citizen but NOW he is legally not one, then we couldn’t say he is “a Spanish-Mexican Tenor”, we would have to go for “Spanish Tenor” and explain his ties with Mexico (lived there for 12 years and is married to a Mexican) in the biography section (or even add a subsection about Mexico). Let’s be serious about this: reputable and verifiable sources are essential for an encyclopedia such as Wikipedia. So far no serious sources about Placido Domingo being now a legal Mexican citizen have been provided. --Nandonaranja (talk) 13:01, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay my friends, here goes something very objective: Placido Domingo received the Order of the Aztec Eagle from the Mexican Government (check [19] in English and [20] and [21] in Spanish). Here's some info about the Order of the Aztec Eagle:

The Order of the Aztec Eagle (Spanish: Orden del Águila Azteca) is the highest decoration awarded to foreigners in Mexico.

I think this is another reason why he should not be quoted as mexican: the Mexican Government itself has awarded him the "The Order of the Aztec Eagle", an award for foreigners. It highlights, though, the special ties with Mexico. Also keep in mind that until recent times, Mexico did not allow double citizenship on people over 14. Thank you. --Nandonaranja (talk) 18:56, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I think with all the references provided we can say the the whole Spanish vs Mexican thing is finished and we all agreed with the Spanish nationality and the explanation of his ties with Mexico. --Karljoos (talk) 23:29, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Citizenship

The article says he has dual citizenship of Spain and Mexico. Is this indeed correct? Please verify and add link to verifiable information source. (May 16, 2006)

I don't know about the dual citizenship but he is indeed a Mexican citizen[22] -- Lancini87 20:35, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, Lancini87. To my knowledge, somewhere in one of his biographies, Mr. Domingo mentions that he had to give up his Mexican citizenship in Franco's time, since he always had difficulties when entering his native Spain because of this back then. It would speak for the fact that he is not Mexican citizen (any more) today. I would not completely trust the one link mentioned above. In most current biographies, the mention is of Domingo as a "Spanish tenor" and not of "Spanish-Mexican tenor" (only here in Wikipedia!). Of course, and without doubt, Mexico plays a very, very important role in his life, but this that not mean that he is a citizen of Mexico. May 17, 2006

Hmm... Do you have any sources to this "one biography" that states that? Anyway, here are Yahoo! links to many other sources where he's referred to as a "Spanish-Mexican" or "hispano-mexicano" in Spanish [23][24]. So no, it's not "only here in Wikipedia" -- Lancini87 14:04, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, right, these are all pages that mention that he is "Spanish-Mexican" (about 70 webpages).... but when you search for "Spanish", you'll find 96,600 webpages :-) [25] I'll look if I can find the page in Domingo's AUTObiography. It's somewhere in his first biography, the "My first 40 years" but I'll have to find where exactly. May 19, 2006

Well, of course there's going to be more sources that refer to him simply as Spanish. After all, he WAS born in Spain. But as you said before "Mexico plays a very, very important role in his life", even more than his native country. -- Lancini87 16:15, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

He gave an interview about the time of Cancun concert in December 2003 where he refrained from commenting on some aspect of Mexican politics because he is not Mexican, merely lives in Mexico. AndI have read nterviews where he says his wife and sons are Mexican.

His Mexican nationality must be proven (cited with reference) before adding it in the article. He cannot be called Spanish-Mexican just because spends most of his life in Mexico. If he is a Mexican, please cite with reference and nobody will argue about this ever again. Anybody can live in other countries for years, but that doesn’t make them the “citizens”. - Jay 02:00, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Spanish born, mexican passport.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.168.105.128 (talk • contribs) 20:45, 29 October 2007

Yeah right, that is excatly how you trying to tell us in Domingo DE that 1934 is written in his Mexican passport, because you were there at his "secret birthday" party. C'mon, knock it off, bro! Where is the proof that you were there in his "secret" birthday party and that you have seen his Mexican passport? - Jay 07:10, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Are we discussing nationality or citizenship? They're different concepts. Nationality is self-defined. If Domingo regards himself as "Mexican by association", then he has Mexican nationality. Whether or not he has Mexican citizenship, something over which the Mexican Government has control, is a competely different question. -- JackofOz (talk) 13:53, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

The solution is simple, if anyone can cite the reference(s) (from verifiable references) that his nationality is Mexican, then, it is not an issue to add it in the article or not, it is arguable - Jay (talk) 13:57, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism

Once again, someone has been vandalising the page..... It's not "minor edits" as he/she says...... What can one do? Maybe this wiki page should be locked once again... It's really a nuisance! May 19, 2006

I have posted this the following on the Talk page of this vandal. We need to keep an eye on continued purile nonsence of this type and, if it continues, go through the Admin. blocking process. Vivaverdi 16:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

-

You have recently vandalized a Wikipedia article, and you are now being asked to stop this type of behavior. You're welcome to continue editing Wikipedia, so long as these edits are constructive. Please see Wikipedia's Blocking policy and what constitutes vandalism; such actions are not tolerated on Wikipedia, and are not taken lightly.

We hope that you will become a legitimate editor. Again, you are welcome here at Wikipedia, but remember not to vandalize or you will soon be blocked from editing.

If you feel you have received this message in error, it may be because you are using a shared IP address. Nevertheless, repeated vandalism from this address may cause you to be included in any future sanctions such as temporary blocks or bans. To avoid confusion in the future, we invite you to create a user account of your own.

discography

The official SonyBMG Masterworks discography link for this artist is as follows

Discography at SonyBMG Masterworks

It (in most cases) contains a full listing of in-print CDs released on the SonyBMG labels within the US (for the moment), along with track listings and in some cases audio clips (which will become more robust in the new year). Ecommerce links are provided inobtrusively.

I have been informed that it creates a conflict of interest to post these links directly from my account, so please consider adding the page to the link section. Thanks.

Postnominals?

Knights Commander of the British Empire are customarily awarded the postnominal initials KBE, and their names in Wikipedia article titles are displayed with those initials and a link to the corresponding page. If no one knows of any reason why Mr. Domingo does not use those postnominals in his name, I suggest they be added to the article. 65.60.250.14 19:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)Brian

Seeing no objection or comments on this issue, I have made the proposed modifications. 65.60.250.14 00:42, 16 March 2007 (UTC)Brian

Family?

Anything on his family? I think he's married and has children, isn't that right? 140.147.160.78 13:45, 6 September 2007 (UTC)Stephen Kosciesza

I have added brief info about his family. I believe that will do. - Jay 05:22, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Nobody can possibly sing Alfredo at 20. Nobody could manage 12 roles and 280 performances ar 21 to 22 1/2. And nobody can sing Edgardo in Lucia di Lammermoor at 21 as said. The fairy tale of a man who wants to be born in 1941. Much more realistic is 1934. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.44.147.2 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 28 October 2007

Domingo’s nationality and birth date

There is no evident to prove that Domingo is Mexican, despite have been living there practically half of all his life – and that means he is not and obviously cannot be considered as “Mexican”. If you have any evidence for it, please include it in the article for reference or not, the category or nationality of the “Mexican” will always be questioned by many people. As far as the law is concerned, he is Spanish. Wiki must set the correct information and not misleading the fact just because he was brought up in Mexico. My cousin was born in my country and has been living in UK for more than half her life, but I can never say she is British until she received her British citizenship recently – this is one real life example. - Jay 03:56, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Nobody can possibly sing Alfredo at 20. And nobody can sing Edgardo in Lucia di Lammermoor at 21 as said. Nobody could manage 12 roles and 280 performances ar 21 to 22 1/2. The fairy tale of a man who wants to be born in 1941. Much more realistic is 1934.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.44.147.2 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 28 October 2007

Unless if you have the original copy of his birth certificate and able to prove it to us, DO NOT change his birth date, it goes the same with his nationality. Read 3 references below.

Thanks - Jay 08:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism:213.196.196.168/213.196.196.163

Three separate registered editors, all members of The Opera Project have provided 4 verifiable references for Domingo's 1941 birth date: Encyclopedia Britannica, Concise Grove Dictionary of Music, The Encyclopedia of World Biography, and Warrack, J. and West, E. The Oxford Dictionary of Opera (1992). If anyone can provide verifiable evidence to the contrary, please bring it to the talk page and stop editing anonymously. The repeated edits and reverts by this anonymous user has resulted in virtually blanking the page and/or deleting chunks of content several times today. If it continues, we will ask for the page to be locked to anonymous editors and report the specific ISPs to Wikipedia for vandalism.Voceditenore 14:55, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Early biographies note the correct birthday: 21. January 1934. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.44.151.176 (talk) 19:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC) (Portions of the above comment by 84.44.151.176 have been removed on advice from the administrators at the Biographies of living persons Noticeboard Voceditenore 05:53, 30 September 2007 (UTC))

Even if you are correct, where is the proof? Wikipedia article cannot be written following what rumours say. Edit warring will not solve your problem. One more thing, if somebody like to be known as "what he is" or "who he is", let they be what they want to be. Like Mr. Domingo, he prefers his birth year to be 1941, let respect his choice. Thanks - Jay 01:13, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia of fact, the preferences of an article's subject (if contrary to verifiable evidence) should carry no weight whatsoever. However, in this case, there is no need to refer to Domingo's preferences. Four independent verifiable sources have been given for the 1941 birth date. As for anonymous user, 84.44.151.176's comments, unverifiable rumour has no place on Wikipedia, and especially in biographies of living persons. The 1979 edition of The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Opera, p. 137 erroneously listed his birth date as January 12, 1934 (note they also got the day wrong). This was corrected to January 21, 1941 in the 1992 edition. If you can supply references for other 'early biographies' which list his birth date as 1934 (published, reliable, and authoritative ones, which have not been superceded by later editions), please provide them. If not, please desist from anonymous and disruptive edit warring, such as that which you have engaged in over the past days and which has resulted in your blanking large sections of the page several times. (213.196.196.168,213.196.196.163, and 84.44.151.176 all trace back to the same address in Cologne.) Note also that Daniel Snowman obtained Domingo's birth certificate from the Madrid authorities - it showed January 21, 1941 as the birth date. Here is the reference for that: Matheopoulos, Helena, Plácido Domingo - My Operatic Roles, Little Brown, 2000, ISBN: 0316643769. (See also: Snowman, Daniel, The World of Placido Domingo, McGraw-Hill, 1985 ISBN: 0070595275) Best, Voceditenore 08:29, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Three early biographies note the correct year of 1934. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.14.202.38 (talk) 13:18, 28 September 2007 (UTC) (Portions of the above comment by 195.14.202.38 have been removed on advice from the administrators at the Biographies of living persons Noticeboard Voceditenore 05:53, 30 September 2007 (UTC))

Yet another unsigned, and anonymous comment from the same address in Cologne, Germany. Once again, please provide the exact references for these un-named 'early biographies'. And please refrain from repeatedly posting unverifiable rumour on this page. It is not allowed in the biographies of living persons on Wikipedia and will be reported to the Biography Project's Incidents Notice Board. Thank you. Voceditenore 14:48, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

195.14.202.38, I will only believe you, if you could prove it, can you? Oh yea.. by the way, I am Domingo’s nephew. I know my uncle well :) I can "write" more than that, I can say as a nephew to my beloved uncle, I was there when he confessed that he was born on 1941 or 1934 or whatever. See, talking or writing without fact is pointless! I am not saying that you are wrong because your are probably right but if we go by “believing” without a fact, Wikipedia will end up becoming a tabloid newspapers, don’t you think? You do not have to reply again to tell us about his birth year unless if you could come out with verifiable fact. - Jay 14:55, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

His first role?

The article states that "Among his first performances is as the role of drunkard for the production of My Fair Lady where he is also the assistant conductor and assistant coach."

There is no "drunkard" in My Fair Lady. Did he play some anonymous drinker, or was he playing Doolittle, an important character with two songs and and several long comic speeches? I would suspect the latter. And somebody needs to fix the tenses, since I presume Domingo "was" the assistant. CharlesTheBold 01:07, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Refer to Encyclopedia of World Biography on Placido Domingo His early career also included productions of My Fair Lady, in which he sang the role of the drunkard. I believe the "drunkard" refers to Eliza's father, Alfred P. Doolittle - Jay 07:16, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I guessed that; my point is that the article needs fixing, since "drunkard" is quite an understatement if he was playing an important character like Doolittle. Nobody would say that a Falstaff actor was "playing the drunkard in I Henry IV". CharlesTheBold 20:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I don't think he played Doolittle, which is a major role in the musical. The biography on his official web site states: "He started by accompanying his mother's recitals and singing minor baritone roles in his parents' company; He had already had some vocal instruction from his parents and at the Conservatory. He was then given a small part (my bolding) in the first Mexican production of "My Fair Lady" [...]. Stylistically, it might be better to rephrase the sentence in the article to:

"Among his first performances was a minor role in the first Mexican production of My Fair Lady where he was also the assistant conductor and assistant coach." Voceditenore 05:24, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Nobody can possibly sing Alfredo at 20. Nobody could manage 12 roles and 280 performances ar 21 to 22 1/2. The fairy tale of a man who wants to be born in 1941. Much more realistic is 1934.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.44.147.2 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 28 October 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Voceditenore (talk • contribs)

Since none of us can really tell which role he played in My Fair Lady, I followed suggestion by Voceditenore . I have changed it to a “minor role”. - Jay 10:26, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

reply to age argument

If he was born in 1934 then he would be 73 now and still making promises to perform at age 80. For an opera singer that's as incredible as you claim at the young end of the range. CharlesTheBold 21:04, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

By the way: great tenor Giovanni Martinelli sang his last performance (Turandot, Seattle) at 82!!!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.44.213.1 (talk • contribs) 07:02, 29 October 2007

In addition to that, many opera singers of that era (and in the 19th century as well) sang major roles when they were very young. Maria Callas sang the title role in Tosca with the Greek National Opera when she 18. When she was 20, she sang Marta in Tiefland and Santuzza in Cavalleria rusticana with the same company. Note also this from the 'History' section of the Israel National Opera web site: "Realizing that Israel couldn't provide enough local singers to keep the company going, De Philippe began attracting international guest artists. In 1962, a young and relatively unknown mexican tenor by the name of Placido Domingo and his wife, soprano Marta Ornelas, arrived from Mexico. They remained with the INO for about two and a half years, in which Domingo appeared in 280 performances singing thirteen lead roles, some even in Hebrew." [26] Voceditenore 05:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Further to the above, the description of Domingo by the INO as "young and relatively unknown" fits much better with someone in their early 20's, not 28 (which he would have been had he been born in 1934). By 28, most tenors of that era had already made their debuts in leading roles in major opera houses, e.g. José Carreras, Giuseppe Di Stefano, Mario del Monaco, Jussi Björling, Nicolai Gedda, Carlo Bergonzi etc (including Giovanni Martinelli). Unfortunately, the anonymous editor with the fixation about Domingo's age (all IP's trace back to the same address in Cologne, Germany) keeps peppering this page with the assertion of a 1934 birth date, despite all evidence to the contrary (including The Encyclopedia Britannica, The Encyclopedia of World Biography, The Concise Grove Dictionary of Music and The Oxford Dictionary of Opera), and despite his/her inability to produce even one published, verifiable, reliable reference for any birth date other than January 21, 1941. Voceditenore 07:11, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

- By the way: die Stefanos debut was at 25, del Monacos at 25, Carreras' at 24, Bergonzis at 24, Wunderlichs at 25, Aragalls at 24, Pavarottis at 26, and Geddas at 27. Got it ? There is no excepton but Callas. Domingo started even as baritone, sang a few years as baritone, his own words, so he could never have sung leading tenor roles at 18 and 20. Any more questions? (Xavier Veritas, Madrid)

The —unsigned comment added by 213.196.205.85 (talk) 07:17, 29 October 2007 (UTC) has been removed on advice from the administrators at the Biographies of living persons Noticeboard.Voceditenore 07:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

To the anonymous 'editor' from Cologne: If you want to keep repeating ad nauseam the 1934 birthdate and how no one at the age of 20 could sing Alfredo, that's your choice. However do not post unverifiable rumour naming third parties as a source, as you did in your most recent comment. It is not allowed in the biographies of living persons on Wikipedia, even on talk pages. Such comments will be summarily removed. If you persist, we will report you to the Biography Project's Incidents Notice Board and ask the talk page to be protected from anonymous editing, as is the main article. Thank you. Voceditenore 08:37, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Deleting comments from other users

This should not be done except for the removal of material incompatible with biographies of living persons. Simply disputing the birth date and arguing that a 20 year old couldn't sing Alfredo does not fall into that category, although the constant repetition of this is getting pretty annoying. Removing it also made the reply by CharlesTheBold out of context because the statement he had replied to was no longer visible. This is why I have restored it. Note also that if it is necessary to remove a comment from the talk page, this should be noted on both the edit summary and on the talk page itself. For guidance on this, see Talk page guidelines - Editing comments Thanks Voceditenore 11:56, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Obituaries of Domingo's parents

I'm not sure how useful these would be, but just in case:

Voceditenore 12:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, they surely are very useful. - Jay 13:59, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Continued vandalism by 195.14.201.27/213.196.199.75

Your recent edits to this page which have removed content (twice in the last 36 hours) are in violation of Wikipedia regulations. Please do not do this again. If you have something constructive to say, please add it to this page, but do not remove the comments of other editors. Note however, that any material you add which is in violation of regulations for the biographies of living persons will be removed as per advice from the administrators at the Biographies of living persons Noticeboard as were your edits as 213.196.196.168, 213.196.196.163, and 84.44.151.176. All of those IPs plus 195.14.201.27 and 213.196.199.75 trace back to the same address in Cologne. Once again, please stop your vandalism and unconstructive edits. Thank you Voceditenore (talk) 21:20, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Question

Does anybody see a benefit in converting the Complete repertoire section into tables, such as the ones used to good effect on List of recordings by Plácido Domingo? The ones on this page contain an equal amount of information needing to be read clearly. I am happy to give it a shot, but don't want to do the work if it turns out to be unneeded :-) Lethesl 13:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

It is a good idea but I would prefer the table to be in his page instead of at a new page - Jay (talk) 13:35, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I'd certainly leave it in the same section it's currently in, sorry if I implied otherwise Lethesl 13:38, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Renewed Vandalism

Within 3 weeks of the last semi-protection being lifted, the following anonymous IPs have started the birth date vandalism again and revert warring again:

213.162.66.185/213.162.66.191/213.162.66.189/213.162.66.180 all of which trace back to T-Mobile Austria
91.113.170.166 which traces back to the Gramola Winter & Co. record store in Vienna

They are highly likely to be all the same person, and the same one who previously vandalised the article (See Vandalism:213.196.196.168/213.196.196.163 and Continued vandalism by 195.14.201.27/213.196.199.75 above.)

I am on my second revert today and have requested semi-protection again.Voceditenore (talk) 11:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Update Semi-protection has been refused on the grounds that the article "hasn't been vandalized enough recently". It's unclear how much is "enough", especially in the biography of a living person. Hence, I'm keeping track here. Since the previous semi-protection was lifted, the article has had the false birth date repeatedly re-inserted by the anonymous IPs above on:

16:11, 15 February 2008

13:58, 15 February 2008

10:11, 15 February 2008

07:05, 15 February 2008

11:36, 14 February 2008

16:20, 13 February 2008

15:59, 7 February 2008

Voceditenore (talk) 12:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I have reverted edits by 84.112.43.8 and 91.113.170.166 to my comment above.[27] Do not alter comments by other users! Make a separate comment if you wish, and sign it! Voceditenore (talk) 17:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Article protected history

For the 3rd times in less than 5 months, the article has to be locked again.

1st - 24 September 2007

2nd - 14 Oct 2007

3rd - 15 February 2008

Jay (talk) 16:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

4th - 22 June 2008

- Jay (talk) 10:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

New Orleans City Council honors Placido Domingo

Stage named for opera singer

By Bruce Eggler, Times-Picayune, March 24, 2008

[...] Even though Domingo has never sung at the Mahalia Jackson Theatre of the Performing Arts, the New Orleans City Council voted 7-0 last week to name the city-owned theater's stage in his honor: the Placido Domingo Stage in the Mahalia Jackson Theatre in Louis Armstrong Park. Such honors normally go to prominent local residents or national celebrities who were at least born in New Orleans, such as gospel singer Jackson and jazz great Armstrong [...]

Full article here:

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-27/1206336092175050.xml&coll=1

Voceditenore (talk) 11:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Categorizing him as Mexican

I know this has been discussed before. But i think he has a right to be categorized as such. Not because it's my opinion, but because he self-identifies as a Mexican. I just saw an interview with him at 9 A.M. (central time) this morning on the Spanish language network Univision in Al Punto, hosted by Jorge Ramos. Well, during the interview, he is asked; "Where are you from, or where do you consider yourself from?" and he replies; "I consider myself both Spanish and Mexican. As it is known, I was born in Spain and lived in Mexico from age 8 to 21." - Lancini87 (talk) 15:43, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's the interview. - Lancini87 (talk) 19:20, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Since no one has commented, i'll go ahead and add the categories. - Lancini87 (talk) 17:29, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

As I said before, we do not have any issue if you have the reference for it. Btw, the reference you gave cant be opened. Could you fix the ref? - Jay (talk) 05:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The reference is right there, he says it himself. In fact, he mentions it twice, after being asked where he considers himself from and later mentioning fellow opera singers he is working with, and their nationalities, he again refers to himself as Mexican. There's no problem with the url. It opens fine. I just tested it from my computer and my cousin's. But either way, i removed the last part from the url. Try again. - Lancini87 (talk) 18:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Can you find a reference in English, so then we can put the link in his article. This is to avoid edit warring like what had happened before. Thanks - Jay (talk) 01:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Despite the interview being in Spanish, i think it's the best reference we can use, since it comes from none other than himself. Besides, there's many other articles here on Wikipedia that cite to references in languages other than English. And as long at it is cited, i doubt there will be edit wars. - Lancini87 (talk) 02:41, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Number of roles

As I mentioned in a previous edit, Domingo's biography on his officially authorized web site lists him as only performing 126 roles, and though the the link provided previously says 130 roles, it includes four "roles" he performed on a recording, but never live on stage. His biography states he has performed 126, and if you were to ask him personally how many roles he's performed, his response would be 126. Thus, it should be reported as 126 on this page so nobody questions the validity of the information on this page. If someone finds this wikipedia article stating 130 roles, and finds his official biography on his web site stating 126 roles, one might question the accuracy of the information on this page.

Also, if you want to state how many roles he's performed, and include "as of (month) of (year)" in parenthesis, it needs to be listed as the current month and year, otherwise it suggests that the information could have changed between the date listed and the present time. If you want to keep the listing of "March of 2008," the wording should be changed to "Domingo performed his 126th on stage role in March of 2008," or something similar. CH52584 (talk) 19:06, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi there, the list of repertoire were taken from his own website, and the total number is 130. Repertoire in this context means full opera (whether recording or on stage). His last "debut" is on March, so the counting stops at March - Jay (talk) 00:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Jay, if the total of the repertoire was taken from his web site, please link that and not a link from another part of wikipedia. My official link shows 126, so unless you can find a link that says otherwise, it should be reported as 126 OFFICIAL roles with four recorded roles. Giving an inaccurate official number calls the accuracy of the article into question. Also, as far as the date goes, I don't think you understand what I said. The way it's written now, it implies that the information is two months old. I see from your own talk page that you're from Malaysia, so you might not realize this, but what you said in your response IS NOT what the article says. My next revision will take care of the language issue regarding the date, and will give further detail regarding the 130/126 issue. CH52584 (talk) 03:04, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

We are talking about total repertoire (126 stage + 4 studio = 130). The list of all opera are from his official website (http://www.placidodomingo.com/inhalt.php?id=1092&menu_level=1&id_mnu=1092&id_kunden=196). Oh, so because I am malaysian, you think I dont "realized" it? What part of "it" that I dont realize? - Jay (talk) 05:16, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry if I offended you, but the date the way it's worded in the article DOES NOT SAY WHAT YOU MEAN. That's why I changed it. If you don't realize that, I assume English isn't your native language.

Also, on page 22 of the Washington National Opera's playbill for Tamerlano, Domingo himself writes, "Orest in Glucks's Iphigenie en Tauride at the Metropolitan Opera...and Bajazet in Handel's Tamerlano at Teatro Real in Madrid. They are, respectively, my 125th and 126th roles." Thus, if you were to ask Placido Domingo himself how many roles he has played, he would answer 126. Therefore, if the number you give is different, YOU MUST EXPLAIN WHY!!! I don't know why you're not getting that. CH52584 (talk) 11:25, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

The current revision looks fine to me. It's clear, well-phrased and accurate. The only thing I would change is the footnote reference used for the 126 roles.[28]. It's badly formatted and out of date. I suggest substituting it with this one:

<ref>Tim Smith, [http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/arts/bal-to.domingo29apr29,0,1339824.story Placido Domingo takes on new challenge], ''[[Baltimore Sun]]'', April 29, 2008. Retrieved 26 May 2008.</ref>

which will look like this:

Tim Smith, Placido Domingo takes on new challenge, Baltimore Sun, April 29, 2008. Retrieved 26 May 2008.

Best, Voceditenore (talk) 13:35, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Off-topic comments

Let's make a deal; if you can mention this ovation can I mention him being booed as both a conductor and singer or having the worst top of any tenor in his supposed class? 174.1.140.204 (talk) 03:57, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

ANOTHER RECORD? Quotation from the main page: Since then, he has opened the season at the Metropolitan Opera 21 times, surpassing the previous record of Enrico Caruso by four. +++ THAT is an easy record indeed. Caruso died at 48. He sang 863 times at the MET within 17!!! years. Domingo 631 times in 43 years. And considering the true age of Domingo, 75 not 68 the 'record' is even more doubtful. Poor great Domingo. He suffers from a Caruso-Neurosis. He will never ever reach the greatest singer of all times, with no story whatsoever. Jan de Turovski, opera voice agent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.184.68.158 (talk) 11:15, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

- - ANOTHER RECORD??

....surpassing Carusos record by four (opening of the season at the MET) Again Domingo suffers from a Caruso-neurosis: Please note, Caruso died at 48, he sang at the Met 863 times within 17 years, whereas Domingo,being 75 not 68, sang there 631 times within 44 years. Easy to understand where the recordholder is. Poor Domingo who really wouldn't need to claim again and again records that don't exist. Anyway he'll never reach the greatest singer of all times: Enrico Caruso. Franco Bastinano

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.184.75.178 (talk) 06:24, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

ANOTHER RECORD??

....surpassing Carusos record by four (opening of the season at the MET) Again Domingo suffers from a Caruso-neurosis: Please note, Caruso died at 48, he sang at the Met 863 times within 17 years, whereas Domingo,being 75 not 68, sang there 631 times within 44 years. Easy to understand where the recordholder is. Poor Domingo who really wouldn't need to claim again and again records that don't exist. Anyway he'll never reach the greatest singer of all times: Enrico Caruso. Franco Bastiano —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.184.87.228 (talk) 09:56, 2 September 2009 (UTC)