Talk:Robert D. Arnott
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Where Did Arnott Earn his M.B.A. or Ph.D., or Doesn't He Have Graduate Training?
When a person is widely described as having conducted scholarly research, it is only natural and reasonable to wonder: Where did this person receive his graduate education? If he never attended graduate school, doesn't it somewhat undercut his scholarly claims? Obviously, grad school is not an absolute prerequisite to scholarly research, but it is customary and typical as a preceding phase.
AfD Result Notice
Let's not get into an Edit War on this. The concerns in the AfD re this article have largely not been addressed and it comes across as mainly promotional and commercial. If some general biography of Arnott were added and it was NPOV'd, then it has potential to become a reasonable article. Right now it's not. Pleclech 12:47, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
- I understand your concerns, but clearly, CLEARLY, writing "The final line of this reference is 'ADVERTIZEMENT'." and "in the journal he edits" repeatedly and "surprizing"--which is obviously no honest spelling error since I had written "surprising" before--is not NPOV but is vandalism.
- With regards to NPOV, how is this different from a biography of Eugene Fama or John Bogle? Moreover, this doesn't ever use a peacock word. This is about as close to a cut and dry description of the man as I can get.
- About the "in the journal he edits" line, he started editing the journal in January 2003. The publication of "What Risk Premium is Normal?" in 2002. Plus, he had won 4 Graham and Dodd Awards before--I would put a good wager that that is why he became editor in the first place. Furthermore, Fundamental Indexation won the Sharpe Award--an award totally separate from the Financial Analyst Journal. To imply that you need to mention that such an article was first published in the journal he edits, when he and his company's Director of Research published corollaries to the article in other journals, when he won Four Graham and Dodd Awards before becoming editor, when this article created somewhat of a firestorm in the academic and indexing community--well, that is clearly unnecessary. I am perfectly willing to write "published in the Financial Analyst Journal." Tell me what you think.
- Writing "Notable Research" instead of simply "Research" allows me to avoid writing about every single thing he has published but also allows the reader to know that the description of his research does not exhaustively discuss all that he has done.
- While I agree we shouldn't get into an edit war, I have reverted your edits (which are clearly vandalism) so that we can discuss it on the talk page first. That you reverted to your vandalized edits after I had warned you of the very thing would justify reporting you to an admin, but as I look at your history of edits, I cannot believe your motivation is purely mockery or distorting an otherwise informative article. I understand that too many articles are not NPOV. Too many articles do not cite sources. Too many are filled with peacocking and puffery, even subtly that teeters on breaking NPOV. But this is not one of them. Let us both take a look at this, maybe get some other editors in. Let us discuss this and come to an amicable conclusion. Then, we can make the appropriate changes. VivekVish 16:42, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I mean no offense to Mr. Arnott, but the way this article is written, it sounds very much like a promotional piece that was written by someone with a conflict of interest. The writing is clearly skewed towards the positive, as though it's a resume or a speaker bio, the majority of sources are to Arnott's own writing, and the remaining sources are fairly obscure. Do we have anything else from a reliable third-party source that proves the awards, and proves that this individual is genuinely notable, per WP:BIO? For example, a biography in major media, or something beyond a trivial mention? If not, I'd recommend sending this article to AfD again, to see if we can get a clear consensus on the subject's notability, and whether or not this article should be kept. It might also be worth listing at the Conflict of interest noticeboard. Please note that if the information proves to be true, I am not disputing the fact that Mr. Arnott is holding notable positions, but just because someone is on the board of a major company and institution, does not necessarily make them "famous". If he is famous, then there will be articles from reliable third-party sources which confirm this, and the only information which should appear in this Wikipedia article, should be information which can be verified in third-party sources. --Elonka 22:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
- Here are some claims to notability:
- Mentions that he published several important articles and was made editor of the Financial Analyst Journal
- Mentions that "He has published more than 70 articles in the Harvard Business Review and academic journals. He has won five Graham and Dodd Scrolls or Awards from the CFA Institute, two Bernstein-Fabozzi/Jacobs-Levy awards from the Journal of Portfolio Management and Institutional Investor and, in 2005, two William F. Sharpe Indexing Achievement Awards for 'Best Index-related Research Paper' and 'Most Innovative Benchmark Index.' He is also a visiting professor of finance at UCLA, editorial board member of three journals including the Journal of Portfolio Management, and product advisory board member of the Chicago Board Options Exchange and two other exchanges."
- I cannot see how it is not NPOV. Can you point out specific sentences? I must admittedly make choices when discussing his notable research but it would be ridiculous if I just included everything or nothing he researched in an attempt to be more neutral. VivekVish 23:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
- I'm afraid we still need a bit more. There are mentions of a lot of awards and accomplishments there, but the listed sources are basically primary sources, that are using Arnott's self-written bio. A personal bio can be used as a source for personal details such as birthyear/location and employment history, but not for major accomplishments such as awards. In fact, I'm not sure that the awards should be mentioned at all, considering that they were given to him by the same Institute where he works, and that the CFA is also a "fuzzy source" organization at the moment. We really need at least one solid "reliable source" article about him. Has he ever been mentioned in a CNN article, or in international press? Or is it all internal financial-industry discussion? Even there, is there anything that's showed up in a major periodical such as New York Times, Forbes, Inc., Fortune, or anything like that? --Elonka 01:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Here they are:
- Active Asset Allocation: State-of-the-Art Portfolios Policies, Strategies and Tactics, Revised Edition (ISBN: 1557382379) by Robert D. Arnott and Frank J. Fabozzi
- Bold Thinking on Investment Management: The FAJ 60th Anniversary Anthology (Hardcover) (ISBN: 1932495320) by numerous authors
- Currency Risk in Investment Portfolios (ISBN: 0935015361) by Bruno Solnik (Author), Robert D. Arnott (Author), Mark P. Kritzman (Author), Richard M. Levich (Author), Ronald Layard-Liesching (Author), Timothy O'Grady (Author), Alfred G. Bisset (Author), Mario Montoya (Author), Frank Del Vecchio
- Improving Portfolio Performance With Quantitative Models, New York, April 13, 1989 (Institute of Chartered Financial Analysts Continuing Education Series) (ISBN: 0935015140) by Institute of Chartered Financial Analysts (Corporate Author), Robert D. Arnott (Editor), H. Russell Fogler (Editor), Darwin M. Bayston (Editor)
VivekVish 06:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)