Talk:Rudolf von Sebottendorf

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Biography / Politics and Government (Rated B-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the politics and government work group (marked as Mid-importance).
 
Note icon
An appropriate infobox may need to be added to this article. Please refer to the list of biography infoboxes for further information.
WikiProject Germany (Rated C-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
Checklist icon
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Occult (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Occult, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to the occult on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

freemason[edit]

i find it rather interesting that he was a freemason, since the nazis viewed freemasons as a rather important enemy of the state.... see Suppression of Freemasonry

In Vanguard of Nazism by Robert G L Waite he says that Sebottendorf's book "Bevor Hitler Kam...", , written in 1934, was "placed in the closed archives of the NSDAP and stamped with a large red V before its call number. Other books that vary from the party line or whose authors were purged, such as Ernst Röhm and Peter Heydebreck, also have the V mark. Does it stand for Volkswiderlich?"

cite book | title = Vanguard of Nazism | author = Robert G L Waite | date = 1952 | pages = 81-82 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Decora (talkcontribs) 05:28, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Sufism?[edit]

The link of von Sebettendorf with sufism should be taken with extreme care.

1°) is undocumented in the article.
2°) it does not realy relate to "sufi meditation" in particular which presumably would mean actual affiliation to an order.

It is very hard to understand how extreme anti-semitism can relate to the spiritual deepening of the understanding of the Abrahamic root particular to the semitic "ahl al kitab" (=the people of the Book). If the link is due to guesswork based on a confusion over occultism and mme Blavatsky one can not but feel sorry for the original student wrestling with the matter. It would appear Mme Blavatsky her significance for "informed guesswork" on religious spiritualty became obsolete well before the close of the 19th century. (see: Parliament of the World's Religions)

  • On Parliament of World's Religions see: Rick Fields, "How the Swans came to the Lake: A Narrative History of Buddhism in America." Boulder: Shambala, 1981
  • On Sufi meditation from a recent perspective but with some bearing on Aryan culture see: Irina Tweedy, "The Chasm Of Fire --A womans experience of liberation through the teachings of a Sufi Master" Tisbury, Wiltshire: Element Books, 1979 (Lunarian 10:18, 5 June 2006 (UTC))
Yes, Sufism. I've expanded this and related articles and now, I hope, all is clearer. Mark Sedgwick 09:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
For standard research on Bektashi and Sufism in Turkey in 1912 see:
Lucy M.J.Garnett: "The Derwishes of Turkey", originally published in 1912, reedited by Octagon Press London in 199O (Lunarian 11:27, 7 June 2006 (UTC))
On the (marginal) significance of von Sebettendorf for Bekthasi study see:
Thierry Zarcone: "Mystiques, Philosophes et Francs-maçons en Islam" Bibliothèque de l'Institut Français d'Etudes Anatoliennes d'Istanbul XXXVII, Paris Maisonneuve 1993
(Lunarian 13:31, 7 June 2006 (UTC))
Sebottendorf and Crowley both where interested in the Sufis witch have a lot of different teachings. Both where memners of the britsich Secret service and have been to agypt. I sugest that the Baron ( Freiherr) was allready working for the british during the first world war, the Thule Organisation ( the core of the SS)witch was prakticly his foundation was liked to the freecorps moovement witch destroid the kommunist uprises in germany after the second world war and where supported by the british. Member in this time was Hess and Himmler. ( both may be killed by the britisch secret service and so probably Sebottendorf too) It does not looke nice in history books that the coreorganisation from witch the SS came may have had some british agents and founding members.
J.
Their are the dark sides of secret society and their are roumers that theire are even existiv secret societies of jews against jews things witch go back way back in history to the days of the pyramids. you are just starting to look at the screts and I know only the surface too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.105.124.6 (talk) 15:06, September 24, 2006 (UTC)
-/ !!??!! Aber tass is extremely gravy ( mais, c'est tres grave )!?!? (Lunarian 12:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC))
On how antisemitism can relate to a "semitic" religion (ie Islam):
Look for the Mufti of Jerusalem or Sigrid Hunke, btw it is said that Himmler himself had always Mein Kampf and the Quran on his desk. 62.178.137.216 (talk) 14:43, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Enigmatic text and other issues[edit]

  1. One section begins: "By 1916, Sebottendorff had attracted only one follower." This appears rather non-sequiturial as nothing prior to this statement in this article suggests that he had ambitions to attract followers.
  2. On a later place in the article there's a parenthesis reading: (see: "Rosicrucians"). This also makes no sense as there are no references to Sebottendorff in that article.
  3. The urine-drinking incident appears completely malapropos. This anecdote just looks out of place.
  4. Finally, I am removing information which casts doubt on the veracity of his death in 1945 since it has been standing for over a year with a citation request that noone has fulfilled:
Current research indicates that this suicide may have been faked by Turkish intelligence, for whom Sebottendorff was also working, and that he moved to Egypt, and died there in the 1950s.{{Fact}}

__meco (talk) 11:41, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Useful source[edit]


He didn't die in 1945![edit]

He was still alive in 1957. Böri (talk) 11:21, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Do you have reliable sources for that assertion? Gnostrat (talk) 19:28, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but I only have Turkish books about Rudolf von Sebottendorf...So I won't write the names of these books. Böri (talk) 10:03, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

We can't put it in the article without a reference. Turkish books should not be a problem: the bibliography already includes books in German. As long as you can spell the title, and supply the date and page references, then people more expert than myself can check it up.
Can you give more details? If he was still alive, where exactly was he living? What was he doing? Who were the witnesses? There is some uncertainty surrounding Sebottendorff's death, so I would not be surprised if this were true. But I don't know of any other reliable historians who are making this claim. So I think that it could be included as long as the article also states that this is not the generally-held opinion. Gnostrat (talk) 15:36, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

from Aytunç Altındal's book "Bilinmeyen Hitler" (Unknown Hitler): (I'm trying to translate it) "On 17.04.1957, he came to Adana(Turkey)...He went to Egypt (via Syria)...Sebottendorf was 82 when he left Turkey." (page:193) I also have the Turkish version of Rudolf von Sebottendorf's book Die Praxis der alten türkischen Freimaurerei (Eski Türk Masonlarının Uygulamaları /The practice of ancient Turkish Freemasonry: The key to the understanding of alchemy). Böri (talk) 12:49, 13 November 2009 (UTC)